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I have started this thread because the people at Black Arrow have been deleting information on consumer agencies from their thread.  

I will put information here on consumer agencies that will take consumer complaints as well as general information.  

If anyone has anything to add for the benefit of Black Arrow customers, by all means do so.


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_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________
Edit:
 
I'm adding this because a lot people are asking me what they should do.  I want to make it clear that I'm not an attorney, just a guy trying to get his money back, just like everyone else.

Please take a look at all of this and look into the options to see what you think is best for you.  If I knew the absolute best thing to do, I'd post it.  If I knew what the outcome of this or that option would be, I'd tell you.  I don't and don't claim to.  Wish I did.

I'm putting up the options I've found that I think might help people.  do your homework, and ask questions of the representatives of the consumer groups if you have questions to find out if these things are right for you.  If you find new information that you think might help, by all means post it.  If you're talking to law firms let us know.  

When a legal firm is chosen I'll let people know, direct people to them and let people know what they tell me to tell people.  
_______________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Here is a link to the Shenzhen Consumer Council provided by a legal firm in Shenzhen.  Complaints can be filed through this agency.

Pages are in Chinese, so you will have to translate them if this is not your language.

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=10

_______________________________________________________________________________ _


China Consumer's Association

http://www.cca.org.cn/english/index.jsp


http://www.consumersinternational.org/our-members/member-directory/China%20Consumers%20Association

e-mail:  cca1984@vip.sohu.net

_____________________________________________________________________________
Hong-Kong consumer council

The Consumer Council can be contacted at:

Address: 22nd Floor, K. Wah Centre, 191 Java Road, North Point, Hong Kong
Tel: 852 2856 3113
Fax: 852 2856 3611
Email: cc@consumer.org.hk
Website: http://www.consumer.org.hk


see posts below on how to file with the Hong Kong Consumer Council

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Quote from: y_boonstra on Today at 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Pentax on Today at 11:28:28 AM
Here is a link to the Shenzhen Consumer Council provided by a legal firm in Shenzhen.  Complaints can be filed through this agency.

Pages are in Chinese, so you will have to translate them if this is not your language.

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=10

Wich form do we have to fill in ? im looking around but it aint what you call organised

I think it is this page:

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=19&id=6169

It looks like we simply fill in the box with information and they take it from there.  Obviously, I'd add details, including the breaches, order number, and what you'd like them to do.

See this page for some more info on what they want:  http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=19&id=6175

I will also look for a general contact e-mail or something and have asked for that also.

here's an image of the post that got deleted.

http://s3.postimg.org/g5sptmjer/btc_talk.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ghhzzoerp/BA_complaint.jpg

Quoted from Ecointalk

Thanks for collating all the info. Just 'watching' while awaiting the response to my refund request after being left feeling badly let down by black arrow software.

I've requested a refound also (20x prospero x1), if they'll refuse my refound - i will like to join some group that will take legal actions against blackarrow.

Do you know if any1 is forming that kind of group already?

Best Regards,

yes, I think we're all in the same boat, unfortunately.

I have not yet filed with this agency, but have been thinking about it.  They will decide whether or not to handle a given complaint.  It is likely that if a bunch come in at once they are more likely to take it on.  

Maybe we give this a day or so and then file as closely together as reasonably possible.

In the meantime, I will further organize some of this, go through that website to pull out what they want in terms of information in a given comlaint and see if I can get a direct channel to someone there.

Discussions with law firms in Shenzhen and US firms with offices in Shenzhen are ongoing to determine the best course of action.

Is the company incorporated?  And is it incorporated in China?  I remember hearing that the owner is in England.  Regardless of where the company operates, you need to know where it is incorporated.  That would be the country to sue in.  If they are not incorporated and are a partnership or soul owner business, then you would go after the owner directly.

You can sue them in the United States.  You would win, because they won't show up.  Then you file paperwork to get an embargo done on their (and their owner's) ability to ever do business in the United States again.  This is how Commodore International (Commodore 64 computer) went out of business.  They lost a private lawsuit, the judge put an embargo on their ability to bring hardware into the country, and they went out of business.  (After years of mismanagement prevented them from being able to afford to pay the judgement)

yep, these are all relevant questions.  I don't know that Black Arrow will willingly hand over this information, although some of it seems to be part of Chinese law, but it would probably be a good idea at this initial stage to request that information as part of any filings.

The lawyers will figure it out fairly quickly as part of initial case review.  I will ask them about these things also.

thx mate!

See here for the Annual Report:  http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

For some reason I've got it in mind that the T's and C's changed at various points along the timeline, but I haven't dug out the copy I thought I had from the point I ordered. Any chance anyone else has copies as they were at various times (or to correct me if they've stayed the same)? We really need to establish a proper timeline of statements, including the misleading ones (such as the legendary 'we're on/ahead of schedule' said in January, quickly followed by the massive delay).

Looks like he is incorporated in the Virgin Islands.  That's likely a tax haven outside the EU.  I believe a lawyer could go after him personally.  The stock is held 100% by his haven business that I'm sure he's 100% owner of.  It's the same baloney Ken Slaughter tried with incorporating VMC/AMC in Belize.  The Government doesn't care, they went right after Ken personally because of where he operates out of.   In this case, the court would go right to the owner because he owns all the stock and likely operates out of the UK.  He's not shielded, in fact because he doesn't appear to have any other officers, he's completely holding the bag for everyone else in the company.

An SEC investigation would force him to produce refunds to customers.  But being that he's in the EU, the jurisdiction would reside with them to make that move.  And they might be more apt to do it, because there is less of this stuff going on there. 

Armchair lawyering though.  You should talk to a real lawyer about it (As you are doing) to get a list of options.  Doesn't sound like you need to go through China though.  I bet it's going to be an EU case or even in the United States.

The former links for Hong Kong consumer complaints may or may not be the suitable office to handle complaints, which explains why BA did not delete the post linking to the Hong Kong office either in the BA thread or on their forum, when it was posted by someone else there.

They are quite happy apparently to let people run in circles.  Unfortunately for them that only goes so far if people follow up instead of simply thinking it is impossible or that China does not have these sorts of agencies.  None of that is the case, I assure you.  That Hong Kong office has been responsive, as have been other agencies, and most of attorneys I and others have spoken to, to clarify this.

They wrote: "Under the "one country, two systems" arrangement, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region has a separate government and a different political system. Therefore, we are not in a position to handle complaints against a trader in Mainland China...if your complaint is against a Hong Kong registered company, please provide the payment record, bank confirmation and other supporting documents..."

We know from the annual report that they are indeed registered in Hong Kong, so I will be sending that report located here:

http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested, back to the Hong Kong office

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

, as well as filing a report in Shenzhen and with another agency I have been given the information for.

The contact details of the other agency they recommended, China Consumers’ Association are as follow:
 
Phone number: (86) 1063281315 / (86) 1063253100
Office address in English: China Consumers’Association, Level 3, Ganjiakou No.12, North First Street, Fu Cheng Road, Haiding District, Beijing, China
Office address in Chinese: 北京市海淀区阜成路北一街甘家口12号楼3层中国消費者协会
Postal number: 100037

I will try to get a website or something for the China Consumer's Association and post it here if I can find it.  If anyone else comes across it, by all means post it.

At this point BA has deleted many of my posts on their self moderated thread.  I haven't looked through all of them yet, but will repost some of them here when I have the opportunity to do so.

Anyone that would like to point people to this thread for information is of course welcome to do so, as they are seemingly attempting to censor information.  IMO people should know what their options really are in this circumstance so they can decide what is best for them. 

it also seems obvious that this latest information on agencies in Shenzhen and China has bothered them in some way.  They left the other information up, and jumped on these posts immediately.

I think that tells people something about whether or not or not these agencies may be effective in helping people to deal with BA. 

I am prepping my complaints and continuing to look for further information on consumer rights as they pertain to this situation and will post here as I am able.

Everyone else's decision is of course their own.  I am posting information for the sole purpose of letting people know what their options are, to the best of my knowledge.

Hi, Pentax, I would like to be your friend.
I want to join to the group taking legal action against BA, to get back our money from those incompetent scammers.
I live in The Netherlands, Rotterdam. (EU)
I have ordered directly from BA site 2 machines X3 on Batch 1, with option 50% prepaid in $, and next 50% to pay by delivery.
After last week update I do not trust in their scam anymore, few days ago I sent a refund request stating inefficiency caused by their delays and my inability to go in further debts on credit card. And only the status was changed from critical to normal. With no answer, confirmation or Email from them. So I do not know where I am staying now.
I am willing for full cooperation and to help with what I can.
So, what is your opinion?
Do we have any chance?

This post will be a collection of the posts they deleted from their self moderated thread that I think may be relevant for people.  It may be a bit of a jumble, but I'll keep as clear as possible.  Actually they've probably done us all a favor as all of this will be easier to find for people instead of lost in that other thread.   

_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________

http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20140315/103830.shtml

China’s amended law on consumer rights takes effect on Saturday, World Consumer Rights Day. The new version strengthens regulations on the e-commerce industry.

It allows consumers the right to return goods they bought via the Internet, television, telephone or mail orders within seven days from the date of receipt. It also specifies that delivery fees for returning the product shall be borne by the consumer, who should be paid back within a week after the seller receives the returned goods.
This is known as the "seven-day unconditional return."

_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________

Link to former Chinese consumer law.  The most updated version took effect earlier this year (2014).  I will post that also.

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________



Article 39 Consumers whose legitimate rights and interests are infringed upon on account of commodities or services supplied by business operators by means of false advertisement may demand compensations from the business operators. Consumers may demand the competent administrative departments to punish the advertising agents who make false advertisements. Advertising agents who cannot provide the real names and addresses of the business operators shall be liable for compensation.

_______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________


Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________________


Article 24 Business operators may not, through format contracts, notices, announcements, entrance hall bulletins and so on, impose unfair or unreasonable rules on consumers or reduce or escape their civil liability for their infringement of the legitimate rights and interests of consumers.

Format contracts, notices, announcements, entrance hall bulletins and so on with contents mentioned in the preceding paragraph shall be invalid.

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________

Chapter III Obligations of Business Operators

Article 16 Business operators shall, in their supply of commodities and services to consumers, fulfill their obligations stipulated in the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other laws and regulations concerned.

In case an agreement is reached between business operators and consumers, the business operators shall fulfill the obligations agreed upon in the agreement; but the agreement between the two parties shall not contravene the provisions of laws and regulations.

Article 17 Business operators shall listen to the consumers' opinions on the commodities and services they supply and accept consumers' supervision.

Article 18 Business operators shall guarantee that the commodities and services they supply meet the requirements for personal or property safety. As to commodities and services liable to harm personal or property safety, business operators shall give the consumers truthful explanation and clear-cut warnings, and shall explain or indicate the correct ways of using the commodities or receiving services as well as the methods of preventing damage.

Business operators shall, upon discovery of serious defects of the commodities or services they supply which are liable to harm personal or property safety even though the commodities are correctly applied or services are received in a correct way, immediately report to the administrative departments concerned and inform the consumers, and adopt measures to prevent damage.

Article 19 Business operators shall provide consumers with authentic information concerning their commodities or services, and may not make any false and misleading propaganda.

Business operators shall give truthful and definite replies to inquiries from consumers about the qualities of the commodities or services they supply and the operation methods thereof.

Shops shall mark clearly the prices of the commodities they supply.

Article 20 Business operators shall indicate their real names and marks.

Business operators who lease counters or grounds from others shall indicate their own real names and marks.

Article 21 Business operators who supply commodities or services shall make out for consumers invoices for purchases or documents of services in accordance with relevant regulations of the State or commercial practices; business operators must produce such invoices or documents where consumers so demand.

Article 22 Business operators shall guarantee the quality, functions, usage and term of validity which the commodities or services they supply should possess under normal operation or acceptance, except that consumers are aware of the defects before they buy the commodities or receive the services.

Business operators who employ advertisements, product instructions, samples or other ways to display the quality state of their commodities or services shall guarantee that the actual quality of the commodities or services they supply is in conformity with that demonstrated.

Article 23 Business operators who are under the obligation of repair or caveat venditor, or other responsibilities in accordance with regulations of the State or agreements with consumers shall carry out such obligations correspondingly according to such regulations or agreements, and may not deliberately delay or unreasonably refuse to do so.

Article 24 Business operators may not, through format contracts, notices, announcements, entrance hall bulletins and so on, impose unfair or unreasonable rules on consumers or reduce or escape their civil liability for their infringement of the legitimate rights and interests of consumers.

Format contracts, notices, announcements, entrance hall bulletins and so on with contents mentioned in the preceding paragraph shall be invalid.

Article 25 Business operators may not insult or slander consumers, may not search the body of consumers or the articles they carry with them, and may not violate the personal freedom of consumers.

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________


Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

8 - deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers' requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

_______________________________________________________________________________ _________________

China Consumer's Association

http://www.cca.org.cn/english/index.jsp


http://www.consumersinternational.org/our-members/member-directory/China%20Consumers%20Association

e-mail:  cca1984@vip.sohu.net

Information on how to go after the actual culprit of this entire mess, Alexandru himself !  This scam easily qualifies above $75K.

http://fraudaid.com/How-To-Deal-With-Having-Been-Conned/Fraud_Report/Jurisdictions/International/ScotlandYard.htm

Does he own Black Arrow Software via BByte or personally? https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/director/52767/alexandru-sovu

See here for the Annual Report:  http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

People who pre-order black arrow should probably write it off as a scam.

Just pasting this in here, as I imagine BA will delete it from the self moderated thread.




The company is registered in Hong Kong, so the proper agency from what I have been able to find out so far is the Hong Kong Consumer Council.

They request some documents and need to establish that this is a Hong Kong registered company  before they will agree to pick it up, therefore:

Send the annual report http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested.  Those documents are:

1.  The invoice showing you paid
2   your bank or payment records showing the payment
3.  any e-mail or support discussions  you've had
4.  The annual report referenced above.

Here's the link to file a complaint if you decide you want to do that.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

Also indicate that their TOS indicates Hong Kong law and paste that in to your message.

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.2 Applicable law and dispute resolution
16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.

This is all the information they will need to pick this up.  They have been very helpful and responsive.  If that goes nowhere, Shenzhen Consumer Group, with which I have also been talking and then the lawyers will be next.

If you ordered through MS in the United States, you will want to do the following as well:

You will want to file a complaint with the Attorney General of Colorado, the Attorney General of Missouri (the state they're based in) and your state.

While the AG isn't able to do much, they do send a letter to them and ask for their response as to why they are doing what they do. But if they get enough complaints, the AG then can step in and sue the company for customer protection violations.

According to the Federal Trade Commission, and I even spoke to them, if you requested a refund before shipment, they were required to refund you. What they tried to do in my case was bump me to the front of the shipping queue to send me my miners even though I expressly informed them I did not want them anymore.

So here are the links:

BBB: http://www.bbb.org/denver/

Colorado AG: https://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/consumerfraudcomplaint

Missouri AG: https://www.consumer.ago.mo.gov/

FTC: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt

Also file with your state BBB and Attorney General. And for kicks, you can file with the Missouri BBB and AG since they are incorporated there. https://www.consumer.ago.mo.gov/index.cgi

Here is info on their filings:

http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/ViewImage.do?fileId=20131720684&masterFileId=20131720684

https://bsd.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/BusinessEntityDetail.aspx?page=beSearch&ID=3524073

Then lastly: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/435.2

They have violated most everything in there. They should of informed us within 30 days of any delays, each time, and asked if we wanted a refund or would like to continue with the pre-order. They never once did.

Use the address from MS's contact page and put in the notes everything you've done. They will also allow you to attach documents, so saving the emails into one file and such is a good idea.

And if you have done the above, please post or drop me a pm.

I'm adding this because a lot people are asking me what they should do.  I want to make it clear that I'm not an attorney, just a guy trying to get his money back, just like everyone else.

Please take a look at all of this and look into the options to see what you think is best for you.  If I knew the absolute best thing to do, I'd post it.  If I knew what the outcome of this or that option would be, I'd tell you.  I don't and don't claim to.  Wish I did.

I'm putting up the options I've found that I think might help people.  do your homework, and ask questions of the representatives of the consumer groups if you have questions to find out if these things are right for you.  If you find new information that you think might help, by all means post it.  If you're talking to law firms let us know. 

When a legal firm is chosen I'll let people know, direct people to them and let people know what they tell me to tell people.

Consumer Legal Action Fund

allows for groups of consumers to take action together in Hong Kong.  Give it a read.

http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/legal_protection/consumer_legal_actions_fund/CLAFBriefPDF.pdf

taken from another thread.

http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/acs_consumer.html

Quote
Consumer/Business Disputes in Hong Kong

Consumer Council

If the trader fails to address your concerns after you have inquired directly, you may lodge a complaint with the Consumer Council. Some examples of problems the Council may be able to resolve include goods or services not corresponding to their description, delays in delivery or other dissatisfaction with service. You may lodge your complaint in a number of ways:

Online
- Complaint (Consumer Complaint Form - To facilitate the upload of attachment(s), you are advised to use Microsoft Internet Explorer.)

- Enquiry (Consumer Enquiry Form)
In writing
write down all the details of the incident and the points of dissatisfaction.
Specify the claim and, with a copy of related receipts or documents, send to the Council:

Consumer Council
North Point Consumer Advice Centre
Room 1410 14/F Kodak House II
39 Healthy Street East
North Point Hong Kong
By Phone
(852) 2929 2222 (Services hours: Monday to Friday 09:00 am - 05:30 pm)
By Fax
(852) 2856 3611
In Person
Visit any of the Consumer Advice Centres with a copy of related receipts or documents and lodge your case.
Office hours:
Monday to Friday
09:00 AM to 01:00 PM
02:00 PM to 06:00 PM
Small Claim Tribunal

The Small Claims Tribunal deals quickly, informally and inexpensively with claims not exceeding HK$50,000. Although the Tribunal is a court, the rules of evidence are less strictly adhered to than in most other courts, and no person can normally be represented by a lawyer.

Other Sources of Assistance

Hong Kong Tourism Board
11/F Citicorp Center
18 Whitfield Road
North Point, Hong Kong
Tel: 2807-6543
Fax: 2806-0303
Email: info@hktb.com

Hong Kong Government
Trade Mediation & Reserved Commodities Unit
Unit 1218-1222, 12/F, Nan Fung Commercial Centre
19 Lam Lok Street
Kowloon Bay, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Tel: 2707-7832
Fax: 2789-8258

Legal Services Providers in Hong Kong and Macau

 

Last modified: July 23, 2010

Thank you for opening this thread and perhaps unintentionally leading 'la resitance' against those scammers.
I'll be joining you real soon.

If they are not in first world country, you should just write it off as a loss.

Hong Kong is not a developing country as such. Alhough it is currently under Chinese control it has completely different and highly developed free market economy.

Anyone looking to join a class action lawsuit against Black Arrow, I'd suggest you prepare a folder of your dealings with them. Starting from order details, E-Mail conversations, private messages here or on their forum, all eventual tickets and so on. Personally I've both screenshotted them and printed them to PDF to compile a nice dossier.

From my preliminary research on the legal side of this entire disaster, mostly thanks to the information and details provided by Pentax here, people might well be entitled to more than just their investment. Depending on jurisdiction, there is a possibility that BA would have to not only refund everyone, but also compensate for loss of profit, as well as loss of interest on this profit. This is especially true if law of the PRC comes into play, as Pentax already laid out, see Article 40 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and Interests Chapter VII Legal Responsibility:

(emphasis is mine)

So in case of a conviction, BlackArrow would be liable to repay a ton more than was invested. I guess you could say at least that's a way to still get some ROI </sarcasm>.

I'm currently working on getting the process started on my end, I'm also confering with Pentax on joining up in a class action suit to increase our chances of geting a conviction. I will post updates here from time to time, in case other "customers" of BlackArrow are interested to join us in this.

BA moved their secretary service provider once, from "Companies Registrations & Secretary Ltd." in 2012 to "Galaxy Company Secretarial Services Ltd." in 2013. Obviously the street address changed with that, according to my info about UK (and as such HK) company registration services, you need a director and a secretary, where the secretary is used as primary contact for governmental and/or regulatory bodies.

Hi guys,

Did any1 achieved anything by informing agencies about blackarrow's scam ?

Best regards,

Hi,

I haven't got any answer yet as it will take some time before Black Arrow receives my complaint/claim and responds to it

I received a call today from a lawyer for MS. They're trying to get me to drop everything and said he is calling ALL people that refused their orders from MS.

Starting tomorrow I'll be out of the country for a week, though I do have another meeting with my lawyer scheduled for late next week. I'll keep you guys posted here when new things develop on my end.

@Jaxx: scare tactic, don't let em intimidate you. If you requested a refund before your ordered product was shipped, you have every right to that refund. MS trying these scare tactics with everyone who refused shipment is a whole other thing to interprete though, might mean they're on edge, especially in a financial sense. Sadly I can't say much more from here, just don't let em intimidate you, update the authorities, respectively consumer groups of the issue and go from there, just don't let them bully you into accepting your shipment if you don't want it and have already requested a refund.

Black Arrow removed my message about Hong Kong's Consumer Council sending me an e-mail and letter with confirmation of opening up the case against Black Arrow.

Now Black Arrow has just tried to blackmail me in private message. Here is the conversation. I've got print screens which I will upload online later.

Black Arrow:
 Sent to: BitCoin Operated Boy on: Today at 04:01:25 PM

Dear Customer,

What is your order number?

Regards!
Black Arrow
   
Me:

I will not provide you with my order details as you threatened forum members with consequences.

If you want t know my order number then you shall see it on the letter from Consumer Council regarding my complaint.

Black Arrow:

How can we ship your order first if you do not let us know what order you want to be shipped?
What kind of consequences can we threaten with?

Me:

I requested a refund two and a half months ago. I do not want the miner to be shipped now. It was supposed to be shipped in February. I'd like to receive my refund. The order number is stated in the letter and you can refer it to my refund request tickets submitted on https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/support/index.php?

How can we refund if we do not know what order to refund?

Me:

Are you willing to refund it if I give you my order details. And if so when will you process the refund?

Black Arrow:

I need to look into your your order to answer to this question.

Me:

Sorry but that obviously means that you are not willing to process the refund. Sorry but I'm not stupid.
Once you confirm you will refund my order and when then I will give you the order number. I only ordered one X3 worth $6,028.15.
If you don't confirm then please refer yourself to the order on the letter from the council.

Regards,

Black Arrow:

If you do not wish to receive a refund that is up to you. We will ship your order then.

Me:

I've got a print screen of this conversation. I'm going to keep sharing it on the forum as long as it is required.
You have gone to far again. I won't tolerate your childish threats of refusing to refund my order. If you try to ignore my refund request by sending the miner you will ger your miner back and I will do the best I can for you to take consequences of this.
I will use the content of this conversation to support my claims against your comapany.

send that on to the Consumer Council

You should probably try and get Phinnaeus Gage involved in this as well.

He'd probably enjoy coming up with all the dirt and the time line that he had uncovered.

On another note, while MinerSource seem to be on the up and up, I find it somewhat curious that a reseller has that much sway. I seem to remember that it was because of bobsag3's trip to China the first time that a whole bunch of people calmed down because he said that things were ok. I also seem to recall him saying that he had seen the 'secret' compensation plan but couldn't say anything until they announced it publicly. Somehow, the supposed information that he was going to get us and him ensuring that things are going to planned hasn't panned out as anticipated.

Yet he jumps on XBteC saying that he's going to get lawyers involved against them for 'stealing' the list even though it was claimed that BlackArrow sold it to them. And now his lawyers are threatening people who are within their rights asking for refunds?

Matt Carson / Minersource is not remotely a good actor in all of this, he previously went by the handle borito4 and is a known scammer on this board. Unfortunately if I had known that's who he was, that would've even prevented me from ordering directly from BA. We don't yet know the extent to which he's in on this, but the china trips suggest it's really deep, so if you are in a position to go after Minersource via the US FTC, go hard no matter what bullshit his "lawyer" says to intimidate you.

Hello Pentax,

What is the BA's Office address, where to write please.
there is one on their invoice and one different on their website.

TIA

They have a registered hk company (Company Registration. 1520309).
If you do a hk company search (it is free) you will find more info:

https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk

I believe their address is:

90 jaffe road
wanchai
hong kong

It is actually really easy to sue people in HK. You don't have to be a HK citizen but you do need to hire someone to represent you in Small Claims Courts (it can't be a lawyer so it is actually cheap to do).

Small Claims Court
If what you are claiming against a business is less than $50,000 HKD then you are eligible to sue them in Small Claims Court.

Why is small claims court good?
-lawyers are not allowed in small claims court
-The person you are suing cannot counter sue you in small claims court.
-You do not have to be a Hong Kong Resident to file a motion with the small claims court
-If black arrow fail to show then you will win the claim by default
-only transport costs can be claimed in small claims court.
-no they can't hire someone from Jamaica and claim the flight as a cost (a Philippine company tried this with my fd and it got thrown out of small claims court)
-Once you win, you are given a legal document (Writ of Fieri Facias) saying BA owe you this much in HKD$
-Then you can hire a HK government bailiff to come and collect anything from BA office that is in the value of the amount they owe you

Imagine turning up to Black Arrow office in Wan Chai and walking off with a bunch of their PCs and some bitcoin wallets while being protected by the bailiffs and the HK police.

How to file a claim for your money back in HK Small Claims Court:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/pphlt/html/sc.htm

Online Forms:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/forms/sc.htm


Or maybe just make a formal complaint to this organisation:

HK Consumer Complaints Council
They recommend you file a complaint against the a local company if as a consumer you come across unfair trade practices, e.g .

-goods or services not correspond to description;
-delay in delivery;
-dissatisfaction to service,

http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/complaints_and_advices/how_to_complain/howtocomplain.html

Thx you klintay, a serious person.

Hi guys. Would any of you would like to try to group suit these guys ? I've ordered very early - in november with WIRE transfer, payment 100% in advance. I've got all conversations with blackarrow saved and it would be nice to recover my cash somehow - 6000$.

PM me, if any1 would like to join me. We could try to use way posted above, but it could be cheaper for us to do it in a group.

Best regards,

I'm in. I am not willing to fly all the way to hongkong but if we can arrange a class action lawsuit of sorts, represented by a forum member living over there I'd gladly give the person 1/2 of whatever money he can get me back from Black Arrow.

Thank you, i submitted a complaint.

Cool.  hopefully these will begin to stack up and they'll realize that this is a major problem.

for those looking for the refunds thread, now deleted from the BA forum:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140701220241/http://ecointalk.net/topic/558-refunds/

taken from another thread.


"Hi I'm new to the whole thread, but liked to share my experience so far:

I have requested a refund way back earlier this year, and I have them on-file confirming that I've been added to the refund queue.

After numerous requests, no update has been given, and all the 'oh we're so sorry, bare with us' BS replies posted by other ppl, I have received as well.

So I was waiting, and lurking to see what's going on, until just now the DHL guy rang the doorbell with the X3 (HuhHuh?) I refused the shipment altogether, but what the F is going on? Anybody had a similar experience? I also contact the HK Ecomonic & Trade office about this issue, and they have very willingly provided me the link to the HK police, and a list of local HK lawyers.

I would suggest anybody having done 'business' with BA, file for fraud here:

http://www.police.gov.hk/ppp_en/02_er_room/cif.html

...

Included original email message:

Thank you for your email and we're sorry to learn of your experience.  We suggest that you report the case to the Hong Kong Police if you suspect that fraud is involved.  Please see the following link to the Hong Kong Police:
       
www.police.gov.hk/ppp_en/02_er_room/cif.html

In case legal assistance is required,  I attach a link to the Law Society of Hong Kong (the professional association of lawyers in Hong Kong) as follows.  The webpage provides information on how to find legal advice in Hong Kong:

www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_e/lawfirmdirectory/

Kind regards,"

FYI for people. Most of us have probably assumed all along that a company must follow the consumer law of the country in which it does business.  This post discussing Australian consumer law would seemingly support that theory. 


http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/steamowner-valve-taken-to-court-by-accc-over-alleged-violations/story-fnkgdftz-1227041421564


"ACCC chairman Rod Sims said: “The Australian Consumer Law applies to any business providing goods or services within Australia. Valve may be an American-based company with no physical presence in Australia, but it is carrying on business in Australia by selling to Australian consumers, who are protected by Australian Consumer Law.
“It is a breach of the Australian Consumer Law for businesses to state that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including for gifts and during sales. Under the Australian Consumer Law, consumers can insist on a refund or replacement at their option if a product has a major fault.
“The consumer guarantees provided under the Australian Consumer Law cannot be excluded, restricted or modified.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt



for those wanting to file ftc complaints on Black Arrow or Miner Source.

from BA's self moderated thread:

I think they knew about the caps.  It's just too obvious because they specifically mentioned caps in their statement to cop out from the price matching promise.

I think it's time to turn the table.  No more sitting and waiting, listening to their lies after lies!  We need to start joining and taking action to combat this situation and get the return we deserve.  We've been lied to... We have proof...

I have a mate who's an Australian Federal Police Officer and he needs to know how many others there are that have been ripped off.  He has the ability to perform international inquiries regarding Alexandru Sovu and can influence the authorities in China. http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/publications/platypus/previous-editions/2000/march-2000/china.aspx

I for one am liking the fact that we can influence the Ministry of Public Security and bring BA to their attention.

If you would like to be noted in the investigation and hopefully either obtain your money back or at the very least see Alexandru Sovu come to justice then please click here :- http://members.iinet.net.au/~craige/BA_Customers/BA.html (http://members.iinet.net.au/~craige/BA_Customers/BA.html).  

That is all I need for now to create the list he needs.  Sorry for the rough web page but I wanted it up quickly.  I will create a database from the submissions and forward to the AFP.

I will obviously report any news at hand, directly to this thread.

Please spread the word so we get maximum exposure and build an understanding of exactly how much money has been fraudulently obtained by BA!

I wonder if XBtec would sell us the email list of BA customers?  If you are in contact with them or have influence then it would be nice to know and hopefully obtain the list.

EDIT : This also applies to customers that have already received their equipment.  It is late, not to original specs and now we find... dangerous.  You have been sent nothing compared to the amount you paid.  Please join the wagon, you have nothing to lose!

Submissions rolling in already!  Keep it going people... BA/Alexandru CAN NOT get away with this!!!

For those in Europe:

European consumers network

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm


Europe also has a RAPEX system with is integrated with China that is set up to notify people of dangerous products.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/safety/rapex/rapex_china_en.htm

Someone in the EU will have to pick up the ball on this. get in touch with the consumers network and determine how to file a RAPEX alert.

For those in the US to report unsafe products.  You can report anonymously if you prefer.

https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

Australian buyers can also report to ACCC @ http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint
According to ACCC, Australian consumer law protects Australian even sellers / vendors are not located in Australia as long as the sale agreement / contract takes place within Australia.

Black Arrow miners are blowing up:

http://imgur.com/8Oq1KWJ (http://imgur.com/8Oq1KWJ)

Not only do they deliver late, lie, break promises and have the worst customer service. Now they are shipping products that are unsafe as well.

For anyone that wants to let Coindesk know what's going on:

www.coindesk.com/contact-us/


So yes, they're several months late, have refused price matching promise, have refused refunds and their units are bursting into flames. 

Here is a consolidated list of links.  Further info on how to file, information on legal status, address etc., of BA elsewhere in this thread.

Just putting this together to make is simpler for people to use.


For those wanting to join a lawsuit forming:

Anyone interested in joining a legal action case:
 
Please send to bitcz@outlook.com the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
I just want to gather enough information to show to the legal team what level of commitment they will have to undertake to start this rolling and how many people will be involved. From this they can gauge how large the suit will be against BA and what it will entail.
 
Bticz


For those wanting to register for an investigation forming via another customer:


"I have a mate who's an Australian Federal Police Officer and he needs to know how many others there are that have been ripped off.  He has the ability to perform international inquiries regarding Alexandru Sovu and can influence the authorities in China. http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/publications/platypus/previous-editions/2000/march-2000/china.aspx

I for one am liking the fact that we can influence the Ministry of Public Security and bring BA to their attention.

If you would like to be noted in the investigation and hopefully either obtain your money back or at the very least see Alexandru Sovu come to justice then please click here :- http://members.iinet.net.au/~craige/BA_Customers/BA.html.     "




US

FTC Complaints:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt

Consumer Safety Complaints:
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx






Europe

European consumers network

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm


Europe also has a RAPEX system with is integrated with China that is set up to notify people of dangerous products.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/safety/rapex/rapex_china_en.htm

Someone in the EU will have to pick up the ball on this. get in touch with the consumers network and determine how to file a RAPEX alert.



http://fraudaid.com/How-To-Deal-With-Having-Been-Conned/Fraud_Report/Jurisdictions/International/ScotlandYard.htm


Hong Kong:

Hong Kong Consumer Council

http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/complaints_and_advices/how_to_complain/howtocomplain.html

How to file a claim for your money back in HK Small Claims Court:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/pphlt/html/sc.htm

Online Forms:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/forms/sc.htm



Hong Kong Police: e-mail:  wchdist-dit-3-office@police.gov.hk

 (these people have been responsive)

This is Detective Investigation Team 3 of Wan Chai Police Station. To
clarify the nature of your report, we would like to obtain more information
about your report for further investigation.
 
Please answer the following details via e-mail:  
-  Did you have any financial loss?
-  Will you come to Hong Kong to give a formal statement?
 
If you have enqury, please feel free to contact with police constable 8259
at 852-3660 7563 or reply via e-mail, thanks.
 
Best Regards,
 
DPC 8259 Mr. LAW
DIT 3 WCHDIST
Tel: 3660 7563
Fax: 2824 0438


China:

Shenzhen Consumer Council provided by a legal firm in Shenzhen.  Complaints can be filed through this agency.

Pages are in Chinese, so you will have to translate them if this is not your language.

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=10




China Consumer's Association

http://www.cca.org.cn/english/index.jsp


http://www.consumersinternational.org/our-members/member-directory/China%20Consumers%20Association

e-mail:  cca1984@vip.sohu.net


Australia:[/size]

Australian buyers can also report to ACCC @ http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint
According to ACCC, Australian consumer law protects Australian even sellers / vendors are not located in Australia as long as the sale agreement / contract takes place within Australia.



General

For anyone that wants to let Coindesk know what's going on:

www.coindesk.com/contact-us/

Alexandru Ion Sovu
24 Branksome Court
Prospect Street
Reading
RGI 7XR
Berkshire
United Kingdom

alex27a@gmail.com

Passport
050620457 Romania

Black Arrow Limited
Company Number 1520309

Registered Office
Room 21/F, CMA Building, No. 64, Connaught Road, Central, Hong Kong

Holding Company
Merlion Holdings Limited
TMF Place, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands

Assuming, BA official address is per below
http://imgur.com/qVtTk5Q (http://imgur.com/qVtTk5Q)

OK... Big problem!!!!  I stupidly accepted a shipment today, I get many a day at work but soon realized I'd just signed for my 5 x X3s! Doh!!!

So, I now have them here at home thinking.... What a real shame :( They are very nice looking, appear to be built well but I can't enjoy them now, they use almost as much electricity as they make... I'm not one to think about the price of BTC going up.  I want to make sure I can pay the electricity and have some BTC for myself as the current situation allows but it ain't allowing 7 months on!!!!!!  They are alot noisier than I thought they would be, real data centre server fan noise, wondering if a few arctic cooler fans would push enough air to do the job.  They are so much quieter but not as robust looking.  As for fan control... They spin up shortly after power on and stay constant.

I am still going to fight BA because they broke the contract long long ago when they stated February shipping.  They knew for sure that they weren't going to hit anywhere near that deadline so they coaxed us into sending them money.  Any company venture such as this should be started with strategy, followed by portfolio and grind down to the individual task required, time lines etc.  There wasn't any sign of management like this!

OK, now for the capacitor blowing up thing!!

I currently have one of the units running without the caps installed.  I'll put up pics and will make a video to show how to disassemble and complete the task.  I have electronic engineering qualifications so no cancelling the warranty BA!  You did also post for us to remove them and stated you've removed some yourself.

It's running as normal and I've actually saved 3 watts of power LOL !  Money bags me now heh???

I will see how it goes over the weekend, I've relocated it to my shed, put a webcam on it and have a fire extinguisher at the doorway.....  Why the hell am I having to do this!!!!!  Because I want everyone to get their machines back up and running asap, if you're gonna bother running them for little reward that is!  Also, you can't just "cut them off" as they are seated right down on the circuit board.  You need a soldering iron the remove them but I'll show everything in the vid.

I also believe it is the caps that have caused the problem, I've seen it many times when they fail due to being either under rated or just crap manufacture.  I haven't tested the voltage across the caps because I didn't want to run everything out of the box but know for sure that taking them out will make little difference other than reduce the risk of explosion!!  They could only be to used to sift out noise in a power circuit, lets hope the power supply is good!

Gonna work out the video thing now and record while I do another unit....  Then only 8 more to go and if they run fine for a couple of weeks then I'm gonna declare them safe and 'Try' to flog them to recoup some lost investment....  BA can make up the rest in due coarse!

FYI, 17 people registered so far... There has to be more, lots more but how to contact them?

Did you know the X3 draws 247 Watts just plugging in the lead, no ethernet, no hashing!!! Only the fans could be drawing that much current, 1amp!  Would love to try other less power hungry fans but I think these fans are in there for a reason.  The temp does get to 80 degrees already so wouldn't want to restrict the cooling.  Compared to other miners I have though, the heat coming out when it is hashing doesn't seem too much... Slightly warm even.

EDIT : My bad!! Read the wrong reading.  66 Watts with no ethernet, no hashing!!

I would like to take part if there is a joint suit against BA. I have filed a complaint with HK consumer protection. Do let me know. Cheers. Ivan Ho

For legal action in HK if your claim is less than $50,000 HKD then you can take someone to small claims court where there are no costs, etc. Anything larger than that has to be done in district court.

PM me for the details of a good local HK lawyer who know his shit but won't bankrupt you in the process.

I would suggest we all team up and take class action against BA to get our refund back and compensate financial damage as they cannot deliver their products per their sale contract. If everyone serious about this then we need to make this happen ASAP as it has been almost a year and we cannot efford to be a cold case.

Get in touch with this guy:

From ecointalk:

"All,
 
Anyone interested in joining a legal action case:
 
Please send to bitcz@outlook.com the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
I just want to gather enough information to show to the legal team what level of commitment they will have to undertake to start this rolling and how many people will be involved. From this they can gauge how large the suit will be against BA and what it will entail.
 
Bticz"

@Pentax
Thank you I have contacted  bitcz@outlook.com

Sent email, I will be happy to join guys :)

You could try going to the black arrow pending orders thread and PMing each username one at a time. Might take a while...

Thanks Pentax.

I have sent email. Cheers!

i have sent an email as well.. ;D

Nice job.  People should pile on to that lawsuit if possible.

It is important that people that are on the fence make up their minds.  There is only strength in numbers on this issue, so the law firm will need to see those numbers.

Now is the time, folks. 

wire fraud:


18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.[2]


that type of stuff is handled by the FBI, who can be contacted here:

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/when


I don't know that the FBI would think this rises to the level of wire fraud, although they've issued plenty of promises which have been broken. 

Anyone that would like to contact them is of course welcome to do so.  We can let the FBI decide if it is worth their time or not.

I just had 281 posts deleted by Black Arrow. He spent a good 40 minutes just deleting my posts. This guy is mentally ill.

He deleted over 800 consecutive posts in total to date in a very short period of time. I think Alex Sovu and Joshua Zipkin of AMT are out on a drinking binge somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Are you going to respost them though? :)

I might just make a thread and post them there since this affects my signature campaign contract.

So I haven't seen any photos of a burnt up unit can anyone link me to em?

This was the first one of several: http://ecointalk.net/topic/1348-my-x3-caught-fire/

I have been constantly ignored and denied refunds just like so many other people..I have an appointment with my lawyer tuesday for some personal matters-so I'm going to run this situation by him and see what he says..Might as well-hes getting my money either way..haha..

Black arrow have decimated their own thread to try and hide their gross incompetency and it's worth noting that Theymos has kindly restored a lot of the deleted comments into a new thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774278.0

I've said it elsewhere, but basically:
blackarrow should be banned from the forum for abuse of the moderated thread system to try and hide their faults and scam more victims at the conference. This is nothing short of deserving of a scammer tag. Can we make it happen.

Hong Kong Police: e-mail:  wchdist-dit-3-office@police.gov.hk

 (these people have been responsive)

This is Detective Investigation Team 3 of Wan Chai Police Station. To
clarify the nature of your report, we would like to obtain more information
about your report for further investigation.
 
Please answer the following details via e-mail: 
-  Did you have any financial loss?
-  Will you come to Hong Kong to give a formal statement?
 
If you have enqury, please feel free to contact with police constable 8259
at 852-3660 7563 or reply via e-mail, thanks.
 
Best Regards,
 
DPC 8259 Mr. LAW
DIT 3 WCHDIST
Tel: 3660 7563
Fax: 2824 0438

Here is a consolidated list of links.  Further info on how to file, information on legal status, address etc., of BA elsewhere in this thread.

Just putting this together and updating to make it simpler for people to use.


For those wanting to join a lawsuit forming:

Anyone interested in joining a legal action case:
 
Please send to bitcz@outlook.com the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
I just want to gather enough information to show to the legal team what level of commitment they will have to undertake to start this rolling and how many people will be involved. From this they can gauge how large the suit will be against BA and what it will entail.
 
Bticz


For those wanting to register for an investigation forming via another customer:


"I have a mate who's an Australian Federal Police Officer and he needs to know how many others there are that have been ripped off.  He has the ability to perform international inquiries regarding Alexandru Sovu and can influence the authorities in China. http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/publications/platypus/previous-editions/2000/march-2000/china.aspx

I for one am liking the fact that we can influence the Ministry of Public Security and bring BA to their attention.

If you would like to be noted in the investigation and hopefully either obtain your money back or at the very least see Alexandru Sovu come to justice then please click here :- http://members.iinet.net.au/~craige/BA_Customers/BA.html.     "




US

FTC Complaints:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt

Consumer Safety Complaints:
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

Wire Fraud Complaints:

18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.[2]


that type of stuff is handled by the FBI, who can be contacted here:

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/when

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber








Europe

European consumers network

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm


Europe also has a RAPEX system with is integrated with China that is set up to notify people of dangerous products.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/safety/rapex/rapex_china_en.htm

Someone in the EU will have to pick up the ball on this. get in touch with the consumers network and determine how to file a RAPEX alert.



http://fraudaid.com/How-To-Deal-With-Having-Been-Conned/Fraud_Report/Jurisdictions/International/ScotlandYard.htm


Hong Kong:

Hong Kong Consumer Council

http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/complaints_and_advices/how_to_complain/howtocomplain.html

How to file a claim for your money back in HK Small Claims Court:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/pphlt/html/sc.htm

Online Forms:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/forms/sc.htm



Hong Kong Police: e-mail:  wchdist-dit-3-office@police.gov.hk

 (these people have been responsive)

This is Detective Investigation Team 3 of Wan Chai Police Station. To
clarify the nature of your report, we would like to obtain more information
about your report for further investigation.
 
Please answer the following details via e-mail:  
-  Did you have any financial loss?
-  Will you come to Hong Kong to give a formal statement?
 
If you have enqury, please feel free to contact with police constable 8259
at 852-3660 7563 or reply via e-mail, thanks.
 
Best Regards,
 
DPC 8259 Mr. LAW
DIT 3 WCHDIST
Tel: 3660 7563
Fax: 2824 0438


China:

Shenzhen Consumer Council provided by a legal firm in Shenzhen.  Complaints can be filed through this agency.

Pages are in Chinese, so you will have to translate them if this is not your language.

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=10




China Consumer's Association

http://www.cca.org.cn/english/index.jsp


http://www.consumersinternational.org/our-members/member-directory/China%20Consumers%20Association

e-mail:  cca1984@vip.sohu.net


Australia:[/size]

Australian buyers can also report to ACCC @ http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint
According to ACCC, Australian consumer law protects Australian even sellers / vendors are not located in Australia as long as the sale agreement / contract takes place within Australia.



General

For anyone that wants to let Coindesk know what's going on:

www.coindesk.com/contact-us/

i emailed you,  bitcz@outlook.com  ;D

Black Arrow basterds using our money to develop a scryptminer and 14nm bitcoinminer instead of refunding or deliver products in time

Does anyone have a picture of Alexandru Sovu or Alex Berk?
and whereabouts?

Found this info is some of his business docs

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681965.msg8679314#msg8679314 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681965.msg8679314#msg8679314)


Although this address below keeps popping up.

FLAT 1 EDWARD PLACE 240 KINGS ROAD , READING
RG1 4NY, BERKSHIRE
ENGLAND

See these 3 links and check out the companies directors and board members.
http://www.companieslist.co.uk/08125672-cardreaderfactory-ltd (http://www.companieslist.co.uk/08125672-cardreaderfactory-ltd)
http://www.companieslist.co.uk/08431396-destino-limited (http://www.companieslist.co.uk/08431396-destino-limited)
http://www.companieslist.co.uk/07035674-bbyte-ltd (http://www.companieslist.co.uk/07035674-bbyte-ltd)

Sadly I think all of you people with the black arrow problems will be wasting your time suing. I hope I am wrong but I doubt criminal charges will result of these lawsuits.

With that sad I wish you all good luck! I hope the people responsible are punished so hopefully this will not happen so often.

Steve

The most difficult part would actually be collecting, but it's very important to follow through on this, because this Alexandru Ion Sovu guy is really dangerous having all of our personal information pertaining to the orders. We need to go after him even if it doesn't necessarily easily result in restitution.

Anyone that would like to comment on their experience with Black Arrow can do so on this news article, which allows comments at the end of the article.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-bitcoin-mining-accused-censoring-negative-comments/

There is another article on the same site here:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-minion-14nm-asic-tape-out-setdecember-2014/

update on lawsuit:

reposted here


"All,
 
I have about 50 users so far who've sent details in reply to my posts here, and another 50 or so from bitcointalk.org
So far, i have orders recorded at roughly 1 million usd still outstanding in one form or another.
 
By the end of this week i should have enough to present the the legal team so they can start to construct the case to present to the court :)
Any of you who still wish to add your name to the list, please drop me a mail at bitcz@outlook.com
 
Again, this is direct orders place with BA and not with resellers for Batch 1 and Batch 2"




anyone still looking to get on this contact him here:



"Please send to bitcz@outlook.com the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
Bticz"



He also has a thread on this forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=772278.msg8710397#msg8710397

reposted from another thread:

All

IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE SO ALREADY AND WANT TO JOIN THIS ACTION BEING ORGANIZED BY BITCZ FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE CONSUMER COUNCIL IMMEDIATELY.  THE LEGAL TEAM IS REQUESTING IT AND THAT JIBES WITH WHAT THE PEOPLE I TALKED TO TOLD ME ALSO.

The Consumer Council will request some documents and need to establish that this is a Hong Kong registered company  before they will agree to pick it up, therefore:

Send the annual report http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested.  Those documents are:

1.  The invoice showing you paid
2   your bank or payment records showing the payment
3.  any e-mail or support discussions  you've had
4.  The annual report referenced above.

Here's the link to file a complaint if you decide you want to do that.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

Also indicate that their TOS indicates Hong Kong law and paste that in to your message.

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.2 Applicable law and dispute resolution
16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.

This is all the information they will need to pick this up.  They have been very helpful and responsive. 

First of all, I really appreciate all these efforts to do something about this.

I have given my info on my 3 BA orders to Bitcz.

I have a couple  questions;
1. Is refusal of delivery necessary for legal standing? (I'm guessing this is a lawyer question).
2. If delivery happens without signature, is that different for the case? If so, what are the recommended actions?

I'm sure Im not the only one who has these questions. I understand the answers may be sensitive and PM material. I understand BA monitors all this, and I understand they have no issues with punishing and tweaking the queue.

They are sitting (yeah they are not plugged in, right) on a batch of X3s until safety issues with PSUs are resolved. I imagine when these ship a sizeable amount of customers who wish to take a legal venue on a late, misrepresented, and to date unsafe product will be facing similar questions.

Hi,

Yes these are mostly questions for the attorney's at this point.

And yes, BA is without question monitoring these conversations, so most of this will have to go to the land of PMs, aside from mass messaging which has been done to this point to try to get people pointed in the general direction of joining the action. 

Even a lot of that will go to private communications here shortly and some things, such as strategy and filing dates etc., may not go out en mass at all.  I know now that will piss some people off, although people have to understand that legal strategy can't be disseminated to the whole list of claimaints without running a huge risk of information leaks. 

I am hoping the attorneys can issue a statement soon that will give people more guidance on what to expect and reassurance that this is not some scam.  I'm looking for the same information, for what that's worth.  I've been in court plenty of times for business reasons, although never as part of a group filing, so I've got a lot of questions also.  As Btcz has been dealing with the lawyers I have not yet had the chance to talk to them directly.

I'll be happy to answer what questions I can if anyone would like to ask via PM, but don't have a whole lot right now, really, not being an attorney myself.  If I were we'd have been in court a loooooooong time ago.  ;-)

Give me a day or so to respond.  Contrary to BA's apparent assumption that I'm an unemployed drunk with too much time on my hands, I've got a real job, which keeps me hopping pretty good.  I'm often logged on much of the day but away from my desk for most of it, and on the weekends I've got a wife and home to tend to like a lot of people, but I will respond with the best information I can offer as soon as I possibly can.

Thanks Pentax!

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

Lexx, everyone knows you're a shill.

Everyone has already lost their ass already.  the minute you broke the price matching promise to your customers these were no longer worth squat- and that's before they started catching on fire. 

I've asked for my money back several times, as have many other people, and the only way to get anything back is to go to court at this point.  You've left us no choice.  It was the actions of Black Arrow and it's refusal to uphold it's obligations that have led to this. 

Beyond that, we've got multiple statements that the money wasn't raised from pre-orders, Chinese law states that the money used on pre-orders has to be kept in a separate account, people can see their BTC sitting in the wallets they were sent to, and Black Arrow is running around sponsoring conferences and developing new chips.  There is money there. 

we'll see you in court.

good call out!! See your dirty ass in court BA. Looks like this bunch of criminals are scared. They should be...

Just wanna bump this up to the top its getting down there... 8)

We might have cared about this 5 months ago when it was profitable to mine with them. Since the miners are completely worthless now, all we have left is to go after Black Arrow.

Please leave negative feedback for Lexx2k and david. :)

Tell your boss / lover / other side of your brain (whichever it is) Alex Sovu that the only way to get out of any of this is to refund all pending orders that he has failed to service.

1) The BTC wallet used to recieve preorder fund is still untouched. The "oy vey there's no money" lie is just that - a lie.
2) Even if BA files for bancruptcy, at least then personal liability comes into play, mostly for gross negligence and/or fraudulent intent. So even if we don't get our money back, either the criminals @BA pay up with their private assets, or they go to jail. Win-win.

P.S.: Alex Sovu in a chinese prison - now that's a TV show I'd watch.

Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if he's never even been to China, unless he has some good fake papers for this "Alex Berk" alias, because I would imagine it isn't exactly a good idea for someone in his position to be crossing borders all willy-nilly.

I have no legal background so I'm not sure if I can be of much help, but I thought I'd offer.
I'll be in Japan in October and could take a quick trip over to China if it would actually accomplish something.
Meet with the consumer council or talk with the police. whatever.

I have an order with BA from December for 10x X1s, got nothing.
Asked for a refund in June and numerous times since, so far nothing of course.

Can we just treat this shill as BA treats it's customers in their own thread? ie delete all posts from lexx2k?

Out of general interest, who has had a response lately from HK police?

Do we have an option to hire debt collectors in China or Hong Kong to chase down BA. But I am sure we will be able to hire hitmen for BA there :D LOL

Lol. Not speaking from experience here, but I think hitmen would probably want to take half or more of whatever BA coughed up.

Hi,

Just posting a message to say, I am one of the people who pre ordered and didn't receive anything.

I don't know how all of this works, but if people here want to launch legal action or whatever, I am available to help if there is a way (signing stuff, sending testimony, or I can also help a bit with fees).

I think if everyone agrees to place a grouped complaint or something, by grouping money for attorneys and other stuff this is doable. No?

That information is contained in this thread.  Spend five minutes reading through it and you'll know where to send your information to join the group lawsuit.  It's been quoted and reposted numerous times.

Good News everyone

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs-finally/

Reported Minersource to the FTC last night. If anyone else is waiting for a refund from Minersource please contact me, thank you.

Good luck! It's awfully quiet around blackarrow and minersource.

I sent an email to bitcz about joining the lawsuit a couple of days ago, but I haven't heard back yet.
Can anyone please tell me what the status is on this?

I just got an idea not sure everyone would agree!
We need to run a social media campaign against BA due to their failure with customers' oders / refunds.
It would be great if we could get a social media campaign on Facebook and everyone like the page then million of people know the truth of BA.
I also found this good reading from Ecointalk.
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2010/11/how_to_sue_a_chinese_company_part_i_suing_in_the_united_states.html

I think BA's SOP is to ignore all refund requests .. at least it feels that way, I requested my refund at the beginning of July and never heard anything.  In fact, they deleted my first two refund request tickets on their support site!  The third one is still there but it has been unanswered.

Really wish I had put my BTC behind KNC the second time through, they never let me down on my first miners.

If you order BA products from resellers in UK, please read this to get your money back

How to Take Someone to the Small Claims Court in the UK
http://www.howtotakesomeonetocourt.info/joomla/

If you want to process Small Claim Tribunal in Hong Kong

http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/pphlt/html/sc.htm#3

Applicable for Hong Kong

Small Claims Tribunal - Level of Fees
Filing of Claim/Counterclaim and Summons    $
     
- where the claim does not exceed $3,000    20.00
- where the claim exceeds $3,000 but does not exceed $17,000    40.00
- where the claim exceeds $17,000 but does not exceed $33,000    70.00
- where the claim exceeds $33,000 but does not exceed $50,000    120.00
     
Summons and copy, including service, each witness    33.00
     
Application for review    61.00
     
Application for leave to appeal    61.00
     
Copies, Certification and Search    
     
Copy of any document (including written award or order) made in the Tribunal Registry and certifying the same (per page)    5.50
     
Copy of any document (including written award or order) made in the Tribunal Registry (per page)    4.00
     
Photostatic copy of document made in the Tribunal Registry and certification -    
- for each page or portion of a page    5.50
- for each page or portion of a page exceeding in size 210 mm x 297 mm    Such additional fee as the Registrar may fix
     
Translation of any document made in the Tribunal Registry and certificate (per page)    At the discretion of the Registrar
     
Certifying translation made elsewhere    20.00
     
Every search in the Tribunal Registry for each register, file or document    18.00
     
Bailiff Expenses    
     
Transportation or conveyance expenses and overtime, according to distance and time (to be paid in cash)    Actual expenditure plus 20% being administrative charges
     
Taking Evidence    
     
Attendance of any Government official to produce or prove in the Tribunal any record or document called for by any party other than the HKSAR Government    61.00
     
Attendance of any Government official to give any other evidence in the Tribunal -    
(a) when called as an expert    At the discretion of the Registrar
(b) when not called as an expert (per hour) or portion of an hour of attendance    61.00
     
Filing any affidavit or declaration (other than affidavit or declaration of a bailiff of Court) (including administering any oath or taking any declaration in the Registry) (L.N. 315 of 1992)    121.00
     
Miscellaneous    
     
Filing any notice or document in the Tribunal not hereinbefore referred to (other than a notice or document expressing an intention not to proceed with a claim or defence)    55.00
     
Sealing any document in connection with proceedings in the Tribunal not hereinbefore referred to    55.00
     
Any other matter or proceeding not hereinbefore referred to and for which no fee has been specified herein    Such fee as the Registrar may fix
     
Amendment of claim forms (per amendment application)    20.00
     
Bailiff to deliver claim documents (per address)    10.00

Maybe bitcz is actually BA... They collected all the complaint data from us and binned it.

Should not accuse anyone unless we have a solid prove. Worse case , Forum moderators could help to provide IP addresses if required by LAW.

Hi All,

Has anyone contacted by Hong Kong police in regards to Black Arrow case. I got an email from Hong Kong Police - Cyber Crime division and requesting further details about Black Arrow Software. Unfortunately, I could not cut / paste the body of the original email due to sensitive nature of the case.
I wonder how other people are going with Hong Kong consumer council and Police complaints against BA.

Just some more conspiracy theory... sorry, i couldn't help myself.

I have not gotten any reply from either group... :-(

I got a copy of a letter sent from the consumer council to BA on my behalf.  After that, I haven't heard anything.

Do you know which method you used in order to get a reply from them? Email? online form?

I used online form for both Hong Kong Consumer Council and Cyber Crime report. And I got replies from both entities which is a good start.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en (https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en)

I was waiting for the refund from Minersource instead a package from Minersource was delivered today, I refused it because:

A - I was promised to receive a refund several times and it's required by Law.
B - the miner is more then 6 months late so completely useless
C - It would have costed me additional money/import tax which I rather spent on something nice.
D - My order was cancelled months ago.. :-\

Does anyone have a good link to the FTC complaint form?

Post 53 of this thread.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt (https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt)


Guys feel free to leave negative feedback for blackarrow if you have been ripped off.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=105804 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=105804)


There is only 5 negative feedbacks!!!

Thanks! I'm not giving up until I get my money back. I suggest everyone should do the same.

those are the 'trusted' feedbacks.  some members have some sort of wacky 'trusted' status and only those are shown initially.

open the 'untrusted' feedback of BlackArrow and it looks like someone blew up a bottle of ketchup, as it should.  that user promised the price matching repeatedly.  that user promised on time delivery, saying february was conservative.  that user posted fallacious feedback on myself and others when we called him on his BS. 

that user is a lying sack of shit. 

I don't see how useful this info would be. They could easily be using a VPN or Proxy to mask their IP, so the info would be worthless.

Hi there to everyone.

I am not sure of writing this but, here we go....

I have been reading the forum linked at BA site for long, but as I wasn't sure what was going on, I never wrote anything, scared of being banned or whatever BA could do with my order....

I still do not know if this is a voluntary scam at all or the consequence of worst working system I have ever met....

But I never received my X3 and I am considering about the options taking legal actions, but I am lost.

I have another problem with another european company, and I am not sure how to deal with as well.

I am not sure about giving info about my orders to anyone because last time I did it thinking to help making pressure on that european company, was not useful, and sometimes I think some of the id's posting in forums were proper scammers trying to confuse people, but it is only my point of view.

I know this is a difficult scenario but, I would like to get my money back, I don't give a **** about the miners they promised. I just want my money back, and hope no more people will be scammed from them anymore.

I am sorry if this question can make someone here feel insulted but, with all my respect, Why I should trust you? How do I know that this is the place where people is really interested, and with some idea of how being successful, in the way of getting money back from scammers?

Please, forgive my lack of trust in people after being scammed. this is not personal, but if I have to do anything or join someone, has to be cause I feel is going to be serious.....

I've noticed about Butterfly Labs and KNC....I am happy if those process give back to customers the money they invested with their big effort, but I am sad cause BA seems to be more difficult to deal with.

Please, correct me on anything I said that could be wrong and could change my point of view about this case.

Thanks and best wishes to everyone that suffered for investing on this "company"(if that total mess can be defined as company).

You're not alone, a lot of people, myself included, ordered an X3 for over $6,000 and have received nothing in return.  Just a lot of broken promises.

There is ongoing talk of lawsuits but so far nothing has materialized.  There isn't much communication from Black Arrow about the status of their company, and the X3's are effectively worthless vs the price we paid for them, if they ever show up at all, which is highly doubtful.

At the moment, Black Arrow is stating they are going to sue the PSU manufacturer for not fixing their problems.  Maybe true, maybe not, but those of us with orders still have nothing.

If a lawsuit develops, a lot of people will join it.  There has been some exploration into it.  There has been contact to law enforcement and various consumer and trade organizations.  Something is bound to happen eventually.  Or maybe nothing at all.  Someone has to have the time and money to push a lawsuit forward.

Hi tempestb,
thanks for your reply. As you say, the worst thing, is that I am not alone in that, I mean is not a single case.

I have imagined that everything was standby nothing solid about a lawsuit.

And all that stuff about the name of the people behind the company? was it real?

Well, on the BA forum there was a guy announcing to start communications with the same people that are moving against KNC....my fear is that I am not a US citizen, so probably nothing that can't give support to people in Europe.

The owners are in the UK.  So you, being in Europe, could go after them there.  But it's very difficult to connect the dots legally between all the companies involved.  If you had paid by bank wire, you can link the bank wire to the one guy's company and go after them.  Since you have proof of payment, and they have no proof of sending you anything for it.  (In Europe)  You may even have an EU small claims court that could work for you in that regard.

It's more difficult in the U.S.A. because all the players and companies are overseas.  There is talk of some Chinese lawyers looking into it, but for all we know, that's Black Arrow themselves fronting that they are starting a lawsuit, and nobody actually is.

It's difficult, when the costs to sue are much higher than the losses.  It's why you don't send money to people in foreign countries and hope for the best.  Sometimes it doesn't work out.  (And I'm out over six thousand bucks myself)

Feel free to comment on the following post of a thread just created in META:

Hey all,

Just wanted to post a quick update...

I'm in court in Reading on the 9th, my case is against Alexandru Ion Sovu and im going to bat against him in the UK as they are ignoring everything thrown at them in hong kong.

My first attempt was at his old address, it went ignored and i was found in favour, i then arrange for baliffs to go to his house and recover and then he magically appeared saying he was not around, didn't get the original legal notices and has since moved address.

So now its to his new address and the court case is being heard on the 9th :) so i get to meet alex in person, present my evidence, and that from all the records and trails on the internet that lead from blackarrowsoftware ltd to destino to bbytes and so on.

Plus the other supporting evidence im presenting regarding his trouble in romania when he and cristina were arrested for over 50000usd credit card fraud will help the case to prove he is still scamming, just using a new twist on the matter and the fact he's operating in the UK and not registered at companies how so no tax is being filed if nothing else will present a clear can of VAT evasion.

Anyone who'd like to "meet" Alex and can be in reading on the 9th Febuary 10am at the reading county court

bitcz@outlook.com

Good luck fighting for the cause. I think justice is going to be hard to come by for us BA victims. I wonder if it's worth including the disdainful posts that he's made, breaching the privacy agreements by posting victims personal contact info in retaliation for calling him out on his shit etc.. just to help set the scene? do you have the broken promises such as price matching and failure to deliver documented? What angle are you going in at to hold him personally responsible?

more the merrier :)

post what you have so i can sift it and present if its valid.

have to be careful, it can't be unfounded or baseless as it won't be admissible.. but if its presented as supporting evidence on his character then i think maybe its worth including.

Any updates on your court case?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=807881.0;topicseen

Not sure if this is new or helpful either but I finally received an email from the Hong Kong police over the online report that I've lodged quite some time ago.

They requested for more information about the transaction & I've furnished them with some attachments that hopefully will provide them a better lead in their investigation.

For those of you who made payment to BlackArrow's Hong Kong HSBC account & have yet to done so, I would strongly recommend that you submit an online police report at this link (https://secure1.info.gov.hk/police/eforms/report_cyber_crime_en.php) to lend a helping hand to the Hong Kong police in their investigation on Black Arrow.

@Bitcz@outlook.com

When is the next date planned, can you talk to your advisor/laywer if it is possible if I can also join the lawsuite?

I'm living in the Netherlands, and it is for me possible to fly over to UK. Let me know.

The more people who submit reports the better. Even if you have no plan to come to hk you might as well if you were cheated and have evidence (i.e. payment receipts, emails, etc). The likelihood is these assholes are still in hk/china or will come back at some time to wrap up their affairs there. when  they do get caught you might get lucky and receive compensation.

Not true, I have reported to the HK police and they reported me back with, that it is not their area where black arrow company is, and they cannot help me further.

Today I have received email of black arrow, and the scam company told me they cannot refund me because the agreement and contract states that they will not refund. And If I don't claim the goods, they will assume as I have gifted the goods to Black Arrow.

That is totally a bullshit. The agreement (when placed the order and paid for the goods) never had those lines. And I do not agree with them.

The last option is for now, that I am planning to go to shenzen and chat with a lawyer over there to declare Black Arrow Software bankrupt. And will claim my money.

So if there are people that are willing to join, send me a PM.

I emailed bitcz several times, but he is not responding to my email.

Time to go to the Mainland authorities in Shenzen then right?