Bitcoin Forum

Owes me 60 btc,
do deals with him at your own peril...


basically, he honored the first deal, knowing there would be the second one
in second one, he did not pay me,

I was sending first, in both deals, thinking he has more to lose if he scams me, but,
he is obviously cashing in on his trust rating

I will be posting more info later today...



EDIT :
I got 10 bitcoins back, 50 more to go

EDIT :
got another 10 btc, 40 more to go

EDIT:
months are passing, as I called it out earlier,
he is waiting for the case to defuse and eventually not pay for my coins

EDIT :

december,
he still owes 35 btc ...

Damn, that is definitely not chump change...

Still owes 60 BTC? I wonder how many Casascius coins were involved in that trade..

Good luck though if your claim is legitimate, it should get him motivated seeing his name in a scam accusation here.

He owes me 17 btc from jan/feb 2013 as well.

Good luck to you.

I sent him tube containing 30 casascius error coins from 2011.

agreed price was 90 btc,
he paid that one,
but at that time, he already knew, that second shipment of even greater value is coming


after the first deal, we gave each other positive feedback rating and I sent the second package,
mind you, first package was also sent like this, I sent first because of his reputation in the community, not just on his forum

so, second package was containing 2 x 25 btc
2 x 5 btc,
8 x single with error
and 2 x single without error,

al casascius pyhisical coins

he said he already had buyers for all those coins except the two big ones , (he was reselling them , I was dumping them, wanted out of phyz and into full digital holding)
so he sent me btc for all but those 2 x 25btc in question and 2 singles, as soon as they arrived in mail

since than quite some time passed, because he really did have that hearing where
he pleaded something, so I thought he was in jail with internet access, but could not reach his coins to pay me in full and complete the deal


later today I will try to  create some more visibility, I just happened to have a busy day...
 

this is the thread where he sold them

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724737.0;all

why delete original post ?

it was saying this :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Hey All,

I am selling a 2011 25 BTC Casascius Coin. The coin is fully funded with the hologram intact.

Make any offer!

Will ship insured with tracking worldwide (this can be expensive) so please make sure your offer is reasonable.

EDIT: I have 2 of these available and a few people have been sending me PM's for bids.
If I accept your offer, I will send you my BTC address.
DO NOT send BTC to any address other than 11xRnZ5t4iGirDZMf77EPakbrxL5Tk7S2

Sold over 85 coins on these forums, feel free to look at my trust.

Here are both coins:
http://casascius.uberbills.com/?address=1GdZpPMdSvVayCLweCvDVpCoSvvcu23gYX
http://casascius.uberbills.com/?address=1GoFpcAi3ebB13Kr98kuxGx3VfJ2phf1jT

Weight: About 34 grams, or 1.2 ounces.
Size: About 45 mm, or 1.75 inches.
Thickness: About 3mm
Plated with real gold.  Text on front is painted black.

HIGH QUALITY: http://imgur.com/nKinC0K,X5ZX06n,fhBXvhl,bIr4ghi#2
http://imgur.com/nKinC0K,X5ZX06n,fhBXvhl,bIr4ghi#3

These have my official stamp on my signature.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Charlie ?
any comment on all this ?

this was the end of our communication,

the coins were still not sold at that time, I requested that he pays me nominal value funded in them, 50 btc,
and the rest , the premium, when they actually sell

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote from: bracek on August 18, 2014, 05:57:53 PM

actually, could you pay me 50 btc for them, and the rest when/if they get sold ?




Sorry for the delay in responding, I had some personal things to work on this week.

I guess I can send you 50 BTC, its only fair, Im holding onto your coins.

Send me your BTC address, Ill send it over.

Cheers.

btw,

I asked casascius to give me some kind of pgp signed statement that I bought the coins in question directly from him,
to get at least some ground on this claim I am making


he surely has my name and address, because he sent them to me by mail


almost 48 hours passed since, and no reply from casascius, I did send him only one pm, only here, but still...



I don't know why, but I think charlie contacted him regarding these coins and I suspect that here also could be some dealing under the table.
If I am wrong, I will apologize

just saying...

First thing first, you should contact a lawyer and discuss your options. It will cost a bit but well worth the expense.

Collect all the evidence and correspondence you have, speak with a lawyer and progress from there.

Hey Bracek,

I havent been online in a few days, nor received any emails from you.

Please email me your Bitcoin address and I will take care of this. Ive never scammed anyone and dont intend to now.

You have my phone number, email, address and everything. I wish you would contact me that way instead of making "charlie shrem is a scammer thread"

For the record, you mailed me 200 BTC + worth of physical Bitcoins which I sold on your behalf. I've paid you over 150 BTC so far and told you I'd pay you when I sell the coins. I still have not sold all the coins and have been paying you anyways (I still have a few left). I am happy to pay you the rest if you contact me.

I PM'd you my email address again.

Charlie

We will see how it goes, wish u luck author to get ur btc back

who the hell is Charlie Shrem?

Im not under house arrest nor is that true. I am guilty of aiding and abetting an an unlicensed money transmitter business. 

I agree, this is mostly true, address sent

but, I have been sending you messages here from 24.th august,
4 or so, none of them got response

until just about now, after all  this, I am sorry,
we will together try to minimize the damage

and what about rawted's accusation, 17 btc, while we are clearing all this mess ?

From what I see, you sent me 2 PM's here and thats it. (Both PM's you can see I have not logged into the forums since before you sent those messages so there was no way I saw them)

You've libeled me on the internet calling me a scammer, which is personally offensive. You could have emailed me, called me, or anything.

Further, I've paid you BTC from those other coins that I still have not sold because you asked me to.



He claims BitInstant owes him money from about a year ago. Anyone who was owed money I personally paid them (even though the company closed and Im not personally liable). He never emailed me any deposit slips or anything I can cross reference, only an order number that I can't even check.

Sorry if I was rash, Im in 'charlie defensive' mode right now. I dont like when someone calls me a scammer when its simply not true.

well, when I looked at your profile, it said "last login today", several times between your last reply and todays reply

maybe admin can clear this up, if I made a mistake reading that, I apologize, but I still think yo were here..
in anyway, seemed too loose, I know, If I owed some money, I would be checking here more often

regarding your phone number, I am not aware I have it,
and also, it is kinda rude that you suggest I could have asked more for my money, no ?

lets just finish this,
why are btc not on the way ?

It said "last login today" because I logged in to view your message when you went on reddit to call me a scammer. Since then I have not been on the forums in a week, you can see my post history.

You do have my phone number, and my address, thats how you mailed me packages.

And I am not rude. I sent you over 150 BTC already and have not sold all the coins.


Because I asked you to EMAIL ME like 5 times and you haven't done it and ignored me.

Im logging off the forums, if you want to continue this conversation, email me.

Watching.  ::)

It said "last login today" because I logged in to view your message when you went on reddit to call me a scammer.

maybe I wrote it unclear, I checked before, and at those times it said that you logged in that day, which was written as "logged in today"
that is what I meant to say





Since then I have not been on the forums in a week, you can see my post history.

I wil believe only if admin says you did not log in
but, you have hat that money long before, and the address to send



You do have my phone number, and my address, thats how you mailed me packages.

I don't need your phone to send you packages
why are yo imputing that all the time ?


And I am not rude. I sent you over 150 BTC already and have not sold all the coins.


that is why I asked for the payment after I saw in the thread they were sold



Because I asked you to EMAIL ME like 5 times and you haven't done it and ignored me.


I am saying here, send to same address as the previous payments, as I said in pm here.
Why is it important to send message to your email ?
I sent it here in pm, what i sthe problem with that ?

Thats going to be interesting.

the story continues,
I guess he logged out

first he made insinuations that he could sue me for ruining his reputation,
but he is not in hurry to finish this fast ?

he told me to send address to his gmail,
why not copy paste it while he was here ?
what kind of game is it ?

I sent the address to his gmail...

I got your email, we will continue to discuss this there, not here. 

I have not insulted you. You made the drastic step of accusing me as a scammer on the forums so I am going to continue this conversation privately with you.

-Charlie 

I don't want to talk, just my money and we are through...

we were not friends before this, so why would we converse now or later ?
and about what ?

you never answer my questions anyway, so why the call to "conversation" ?
lets get it over with, there is a very quick way to end this all

I do answer your questions, privately. We are now speaking through email.

Thanks for responding.

just for the record,
you did not answer almost all of my questions

should I repeat them all in one place ?

Which questions?

Email them to me, I am happy to answer them.

Also, someone is trying to scam you and emailed me a fake BTC address. This is why we use email, its a little safer.

I got 10 btc from Charlie, he sent them just now

so 50 more remaining

I am going to sleep now, will be back in 10 -15 hours

In other words, a victimless crime.

I just sent Bracek 10 BTC in good faith while we continue to resolve this. I will continue to send him funds.

1d55cb395f0383b7b54171c30dbfdb06c267184c3723e9fd21d4ba9796852133

leave charlie alone  :(

@Bracek - Since you are all about being so public about things, why don't you say publicly why you did not pick up the phone and give him a call? There are many other ways to get ahold of someone other then PMing then on here and opening a scam accusation. He has said many times that you have his contact information but all your response is that you want "your" money. IMO you are being unprofessional and greedy

FIFY

Thanks for defending me  ;D

He is not being unprofessional and greedy, he just got scared since I did not respond to his 2 PM's within a few days. I dont blame him

Yes, he could have emailed me and he has my physical address (with a little googling my phone number as well). I don't approve of his methods at all, but thats behind us now.

The issue is being resolved anyways. All parties are cool and I've already sent him 10 BTC in good faith until its all resolved.

Not sure why people have it out for you , but you've done a lot of good for the Bitcoin community.

It's good to see an accusation going the way it goes here. Most threads in this section are just full of rage or bitter regrets.

first, what is your interest in this ?

second,
read carefully what I wrote here in this thread,
you will have enough to answer your questions yourself

I am glad we started to settle the deal finally

the question remains why "my money" was spent in the first place ?
It is a clear sign that there was no respect towards it.
and what is that action telling about intention to give it back ?

why do I have to get it in chunks ?
Who knows how long will it take,
might be just a continuation of a weird game...
time will tell

but one has to admit that there is something really unusual going on here, right ?

There is nothing unusual going on here at all. I advanced you BTC before I sold all your physicals.

I sent you about 160 BTC total.

-Charlie

It's already been explained in the thread that his understanding of the agreement was that you would be paid when he sold the coins, not when he received them from you.

The issue is, I made the mistake and prematurely advanced him coins, therefore setting a precedent.

So, I understand when he saw I sold some of the other coins he wants the additional BTC.

Anyways, were working it out so no worries.

I suspect he's going to continue to gripe here, but hopefully not.

BTW, Charlie, I like the way you are handling this.  Very concerned about your reputation, but not disrespectful or aggressive.

I think we have here a case where two parties ultimately disagree on what the original agreement was.  From the perspective of the rest of us, neither is "right" or "wrong."  They just need to work it out, or else leave each other alone.  To sit and hurl insults and scam accusations in such a case like was done here is very bad form, IMO.

Bracek, can you confirm this is you?

Let me know which address to send more Bitcoin to, please post it here.

So far the only address I have confirmed is this one:
1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

Someone has been emailing me 2-3 different ones since yesterday, Im afraid to send.

Im nervous because I asked the emailer to post the address in this thread (which Bracek did before) and he ignored me and threatened me 3 times.

Please post the new one here.

yes, but you don't know what I have been told through pm's

Bracek, please see my message above.

since you made the receiving address public, people can see it has not received 160 btc,
why the constant augmenting of good stuff, and downplaying the bad,
lets keep it as it is

Bracek,

Is this you who keeps emailing me? See my messages above:


Forget everything else, Im trying to figure out of the person emailing me is really you.

See here for more emails: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9154693#msg9154693

Let me know, or private PM me the address you want the Bitcoin sent to from now on.

-Charlie

in your messages, you explicitly said that you have sold the coins and sent me exact amounts

which was it, advance or actual sales ?
why is all the info so fuzzy ?

Bracek,

I defended you on the past posts. No need to dwell on this.

We moved on from this, Im paying your BTC, everything is fine. Nothing is fuzzy. I sent you 150 BTC, I owe you 50 more (I sent 10 last night) and I still have some of your physical coins which I will sell, dont worry.

More importantly, can you please respond to all my messages?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9154693#msg9154693
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9154834#msg9154834
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9154930#msg9154930

Im trying to figure out if the scammer is you or not.

I must continue, because of my suspicions that teh strategy is to stall
to defuse the social pressure, and maybe not pay later,

excuse me for thinking out loud, I am not accusing of anything,
just a thought that crossed my mind of how it looks like


and
I also think this is being handled very well by both of us,
considering the stakes

The guy is trying to confirm your Bitcoin address and you're ignoring him lol

So far the only address I have confirmed is this one:
1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd


yes, the only one,
it will not change, send only there


ignore all emails, all are fake

I understand your suspicious, and social preassure will not be defused. This bitcointalk thread will always exist and I am a man of my word.

I believe we are both handling it well. I will continue to send you BTC over the next weeks until this is paid off.


THANK YOU! This scammer keeps emailing me.

From now on, I will only send BTC to addresses that are in this thread.

I am not sending any of that, ignore all of it,
why did you ever want to drag the comunication to emails anyway ?
lets just keep it here in the open
actually, no need for any communication,
just send to this address

1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

Sorry, I thought it was you emailing me. If I ignored the emails, I was afraid you would come here and tell people I was ignoring you

Agreed, everything in the open and will send to that address.

I will post updated every time I sent.

Thank you and have a nice day

-Charlie

[/quote]
This is mostly incorrect.

1. I posted on the official "Bitinstant Support" thread within 20 minutes of the deposit going missing (i believe it was around page 38 at the time). I had done 2 previous transactions with BI.

2. I spoke to you initially, and the first person you directed me to (a female support agent), confirmed the debt with just the order number. She was supposed to pay me back in April 2013. Never happened.

3. I spoke to zipzap (took about 10 days to actually get a response), they confirmed the order number and were supposed to contact Bitinstant. Never happened.

4. After a few months (7, to be exact) you referred me to another support agent and he confirmed the order number as well and was very helpful, and confirmed the debt.

5. You asked me for my moneygram deposit slip after almost 16 months from the date of the transaction, despite having my order number, and confirmation from BI employees. I admit, I have no clue where it went.

I've been asking and posting about it here and on IRC for almost two years. It wasn't until I posted here and left you negative feedback that you started coming around and responding again. What is it going to take to resolve this, man?

Rawted,

This was a BitInstant matter, not one of me personally. I've done my best to refund every customer, paying thousands out of my own pocket.

I sent you an email and I am offering again here to fully refund the $360 you deposited that day.

You have my email, as we were in conversation, feel free to email me an address where to mail the check.

I will overnight a FedEx check to you today if you email me your address right now.

-Charlie

Edit: I just sent you an email offering a full refund.

I can appreciate the fact that you're no longer involved with BI. I can totally appreciate the amount you have had to pay out of your pocket to clear up issues. My problem is that I started this support request through you/your company back when you were in charge of it all. You know exactly who I am, as you just emailed me right away after I posted. If you notice the email you replied to was sent March of 2014. That's 7 months since you last replied to me about this.  You even knew the exact amount (360). Why did it have to get to this?

I'm torn as I realize you have no control over BI assets anymore, but I feel like my situation is different (due to the length of time I have been in contact about this, and the hoops I've been forced through), and that I have been more then patient enough. The offer of $360 is commendable, but again, I bought bitcoins with that money - I didn't place it in a no-interest savings plan for 18 months. I am honestly not happy at all with that appeasement. I appreciate you responding, and honestly attempting to resolve this (which I would like as well), but this is not fair, imo.

I have removed  the negative from your profile while we work towards an amicable solution, and thank you for stepping up.

EDIT: The email you just replied to from feb 2014 even has the order ID, event details, store, and location sent from in it. Would it be worth trying to get a hold of zipzap again about this?

Thanks for your message.

I was able to know the amount and who you are because after you posted this I searched "Rawted" in my gmail search and only 1 email came up. I also know it was $360 because that was the amount you told me, so I am going by your word.

There are many places where your order could have failed, and Im sorry for the length of time it has taken to resolve this. ZipZap may have not paid us for your order, or it could have failed. Bitcoins were never purchased for this order. If there was, we would have had the coins to give you

I was only apprised to this situation when once I got your email on Feb 17th 2014. Up until that point, I had no idea of this situation.

The day I got your email, I copied my partner and said (you have this email as well)


Since then I received 1 other email from you in March. Gareth has not responded to me, and I dont have any corresponded between you and him.

My current offer stands. We dont have much information to go on here, but Im happy to refund you to just end this.

Currently, as part of my bail conditions I am not allowed to engaged in any BitInstant activity. This includes investigating this further and buying more Bitcoin for the company. The only thing I can do is refund you out of my pocket. The $360 would come from me personally and not the company

There is a clear legal line between what a company and a person. All of these dealings are between you and the company. I am no longer part of the company. However Im doing this because I know $360 is alot of money and I would be pissed as well.

-Charlie


All ZipZap will do is confirm this order exists in their system and that you paid.

From then on, I have no way to check the BitInstant system of what happened to your order.

This is why Im offering to give you a full refund.

Edit: I'm not even legally allowed to send you Bitcoin as a refund, as that constitutes money transmission which I'm guilty of. I can only refund you in the way you paid which is why I offered to FedEx a bank check.

My apologies for making you post that, I didn't know about your bail conditions.

You may not remember, but you forwarded me onto a female support agent via PM because of my post on that thread sometime in april of 2013.

Again, I appreciate your offer, but I will need to think on this.

Just to confirm my choices are:

a) $360 refund from you directly
b) wait until the terms of your conditions run out and we pursue it for my full amount (if so, how long is that?)

Fuck your stubbornness and accept the fact that you either get $360 or $0 here. Its called bad debt, should've been written off months ago. Charlie is not the person who owes you, it is bitinstant ENTITY that owes which consists of many owners. Charlie did not personally harm you and just like in a court system the CEO of a company is not the one sued here, its the company in general. Either take the $360 or hold your vendetta/stubbornness and walk away with $0. I find it honorable Charlie would offer to pay you $360 as he personally owes you NOTHING.

As the company was doing illegal activity you won't be able to get a judge to give you anything except the $360 you paid AT MOST. Thus, this is your best option here.

I'll care about what you say once you take care of your debt to BigBitz.

That misunderstanding is still the same shit as right here. He made a mistake, I offer to pay his $250 in BTC at anytime he wishes for him to put it behind him. If BTC reaches $125 a coin I will send the 2 BTC he argues owed to his addy within 24 hours. He is not going to hit the jackpot off an unagreed deal and his mistake. Again, as there was no agreement I argue I owe nothing.

Like you, his stubbornness blinds him from reality, either $250 or $0, there is no convincing otherwise.

No apology needed, you are trying to get money owed to you and thats understandable.

a) yes, I can FedEx you a check anytime.
b) You can, but like KingOfSports said, the most you will get from a judge is the $360 refund, which is why I offered it to save you the time.


This is exactly accurate. Although I was trying to say it nicer myself.

Fair enough. Thank you for your input. I hope you two resolve the issue.

I have sent a PM requesting BTC payout if possible. You'll save on Fedex fees, I'll save on converting it back to BTC.

Rawted, he can't send it in BTC. 

My apologies, didn't notice the edit.

Responded to your PM.

This. Oh the irony here. Maybe he is LE trying to trip up Charlie again. I wouldn't trust him

the idea is to defuse social pressure and heat with time,
to let this thread sink,
and to not pay in full after all


the btc are still not coming in, title of the thread gets heavier as time passes...

you shall know them by their deeds ?

Maybe you should just both agree to a date by which all owed funds should be paid. It seems to me you agreed to partial payment for stock with the rest to be paid as he sold them. It seems your mistake was agreeing to an arrangement you didn't like in retrospect. Perhaps you two can set a date by which all funds must be paid. This way there is no confusion from anyone if the agreement is complete or not.

it should have already been paid, long ago, that is what this thread is all about

This thread is getting pointless, please stop adding fuel to the Fire.

Whatever the issue was in the past, it's not worth talking about.

Threads don't "sink" nor does social pressure. If I scam you, you come right back here because I promised to pay and it would look worse if I don't.

You will be paid in full, I've alredy started. If I was going to scam you I would not even be responding here or I would argue with you.

I'm not arguing, so let's both relax be professional and adults.

- Charlie

don't call this thread pointless, it is worth 50 btc to me

and please add another bolt to your statement,
a time limit on all this,


 because, what if price goes up and you end up not being able to earn or buy enough btc on the market ?

I've already emailed you the payment plan a few days ago. Please check your email.

What happens in the market is not your concern. I've already sent you 10 and committed to your plan.

You don't have to keep treating me like a scammer, so angry and childish.

This whole thread, anger, ect could have been avoided if you simply contacted me.

I admit I did not check the forums and see your 2 PM's, but you had my email address, physical address and more.

I've acted like a professional, responded to this thread and dealt with your concerns.

I ask you do the same.

I wrote:


And you said:


So then I sent 10 BTC and said:


Which you said:


So, thats what I offered you and the best timing I can give

Another 10 BTC sent:

https://blockchain.info/tx/106290a04db44a2a1f6ff455570aae32058ce8adf1d9291f031c7a0768189408

https://blockchain.info/address/1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

I told you I would send 10 BTC every week, so far this week I sent 20.

----------------------------

20/50 repaid.

10 - https://blockchain.info/tx/1d55cb395f0383b7b54171c30dbfdb06c267184c3723e9fd21d4ba9796852133
10-  https://blockchain.info/tx/106290a04db44a2a1f6ff455570aae32058ce8adf1d9291f031c7a0768189408

I agree, talk is cheap

20/60 paid

40 more to go

in case I lose access to any of my accounts here or elsewhere :

the receiving address will stay the same, I don't intend to change it.


can somebody please quote this post, thanx

quoted

Charlie has, on multiple occasions wanted to confirm that he was sending the bitcoin to the correct address prior to doing so. I think you are being overly dramatic and are trying to make a bigger deal out of a situation that is not a big deal. From what I can tell Charlie honored his end of the agreement, and you wanted to get paid sooner, and opened a scam accusation as a result.

please bug out, you don't have the complete info on this story,
you don't know all that was said behind the scene

I have been patient and very polite

Sorry you don't get to cry out to the community about a "scam" and tell them to "bug out" when you don't like their reply. He is right. The failure here was of both parties to set a definite end date for the debt to be paid BEFORE the trade was conducted. You both hold culpability for this crappy deal.

Well I have trusted Charlie with a decent chunk of coins upfront and never had an issue. Charlie will get you paid up, but next time a better initial agreement would fix these sort of issues. Charlie is pretty well known so the chances of him scamming you are about 0. I understand that with 160BTC on the line you would be a little nervous (I would be also).

Yep - when you conduct these things in public, we all get the chance to form our own opinions on the persons involved and how they handle things.  And many of us are not shy about expressing out opinions.

Wow, KingOfSports is going to repay me?! nice.

Thanks Ian. You can send it to my vanity.

1BigBitzyouKT2eVYvHbRUNMkCp9bvAvSu

I look forward to my 2BTC :)

Received a check for $360 today From Charlie's accountant. While it's not the 17 remaining BTC from my Bitinstant order (BI's fault, not Charlie's), it is a resolution (and one he didn't have to provide me). Due to the length of time between my original order and today, I grew quite agitated with Charlie, and gave him a ton of flak. He rolled with the punches and in the end took care of me. For this, he has earned my respect and thanks.

Thank you for resolving my long-standing issue with Bitinstant, Charlie. I wish you nothing but continued success.

If you are going to cry "scam" to the community then you need to be ready for people to question you about the agreement as well about your intentions. If this was a private matter then you would be right to say to "bug out" however once you cried scam you made this a community matter and everyone in the community has the right to question you

EDIT: I see that charlie has refuted that he is actually late in paying you for any of the physical coins, however you have not disputed this claim, which would lead me to believe that you are the one trying to get an advance payment not trying to recover a late payment

The disputes and whatever is not relevant anymore.

I have paid him almost half of what is ultimately owed with more BTC being paid this week.

This thread will be updated when I send more payments.

Until then, let's leave it at that. We all have better things to do

-Charlie

payments have stopped,

Charlie said to me , earlier,
that he sold the coins , all but those mentioned here,
even added a remark that he said he could do it fast,

all coins are sold, yet, I am not getting my money back

why ?

I have looked through the entire thread and do not see anything that would indicate the coins are sold.

It was mentioned that he though he could sell the coins "fast" however this was not defined more precisely.

I hope that you understand that you harassing him on this thread is only going to hamper his ability to sell the coins as any buyer will need to place a certain level of trust in him.

I would think that you are trying to hang his pending sentencing over his head to to try get him to pay you quicker then he agreed so he can not look bad in front of the judge when he is sentenced. This agreement appears to be very clear however you are demanding that the agreement be changed, and you attempt to change it without even telling Charlie that the agreement has changed, but instead open a scam accusation

coins are sold, at least he said so through pm-s
months ago

than I waited some more after the last coins were sold,

and he makes me wait some more now

all this seems weird and overreacted only because I did not show our private messages here,
if you saw them, than you would be quiet or would say something else

you think I just happened to write he is a scammer ?
for fun ?

and don't take what he said here as absolute truth,
as I said in a negative feedback, it is a very smooth play
that is going on here...

Yes, in a few private messages I said they were sold. I would also send you the BTC immediately when I got the package, because I had commitments for alot of the coins.  In 1 PM I even told you:


In reality, however, (as I said earlier) not all the coins were sold.I was prepaying you because I had commitments to sell the coins. Some of those commitments did not go thru.

I already admit to setting a bad precedent and paying you before all the coins were sold. However, that does not make me a scammer.


Yes, you could have easily called my phone, emailed me, and you have my address and real name as well.

Instead, you made a scammer post here and on reddit and i've proved to you and everyone I am not a scammer.

You don't have to keep treating me like a scammer, so angry and childish.

This whole thread, anger, ect could have been avoided if you simply contacted me personally.

I've acted like a professional, started to pay you, responded to this thread and dealt with your concerns.

I ask you do the same.


I told you I would send you a payment each week, last week I sent 2 payments to show you Im not a scammer. Next week you will get another payment.

These is no point in constantly responding this thread, all we are doing is going back and forth and fighting for no reason. The thread is public and everyone can see it. It is not going anywhere.

If you want to fight "I am right, you are wrong" then OK we can do it. However I am not wasting anymore time fighting with you. I am trying to be mature.

-Charlie

look,
you keep polishing your story, but only when I squeeze a bit more,
I stand same ground from the beginning

another thing,
you are making ad hominems and using your social leverage over me,
while I am here because you hold my money,
not quite the same weight of argument,
so don't take position of being mature about this and trying to make me seem childish

as you said, I had the information you sold the coins, and did not get money for a long time,
than you stopped responding to my messages here,

so, what does it look like ?



I doubt "a phone call" would settle anything,
when public pressure in this thread yielded only a fraction of the debt in so much time.

Barcek,

Whatever your issue maybe with Charlie, he is dealing with you in a professional, calm, clear, and straightforward manner.  If you are getting weekly payments where he is paying you for physicals he hasn't even sold yet, I really think you should settle down here.  At this pace you'll be fully paid within a month.  Charlie has publicly stated you'll be paid in that time frame.  I personally don't know of anything more solid you could have him say.  You've gotten assurances, and you're getting paid.  What more do you want here?

please,

Whatever your issue maybe with Charlie, he is dealing with you in a professional, calm, clear, and straightforward manner.

pick on him not being consistent in his statements, using ad hominems and so on,
I just want my money



If you are getting weekly payments

I am not getting weekly payments
come on, whose boy are you ?
why post here if you just skimmed through this thread, if even that ?



At this pace you'll be fully paid within a month.

actually, I will not, check the dates, and you will see it to
and come back here to check what happens a month from now...


Charlie has publicly stated you'll be paid in that time frame.

he said a lot of things...

What more do you want here ?
what do you want, what is your interest here ?
I have been polite all the way

There shouldn't be any need for him to polish more or for you to squeeze more.  You are being belligerent in a way almost everybody reading you is going to think is unnecessary and counterproductive.  I know I certainly wouldn't make any agreements with you after seeing all of this.  They way you are handling this is something I would want to avoid dealing with at all costs, and I'm sure lots of people feel the same as me.

Not in my opinion.  Being polite means avoiding namecalling, among other things.

You feel you have been wronged, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Most people reading this thread don't feel you have been wronged.

This status appears to be unchanged looking at blockchain.info:

https://blockchain.info/address/1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

I suggest contacting Charlie privately and asking if he is going to send 10 BTC this week.  If he doesn't send it or indicates he isn't going to, then you start getting public about it.

Don't start everything out at red alert.  It makes you look like the kind of person most of us are going to want to have no dealings with.

Thanks Walter.

I addressed the payment this morning, about 7 hours ago.

I agree. After seeing how he is handling this situation I would not deal with him period, even if he were to send goods/money first. He is taking advantage of someone who values his reputation a lot and who could potentially go to jail (for longer) if he is labeled as a thief/dishonest.

You also need to remember that you probably would not be able to sell the coins period without him as there is really not another realistic way of doing so because you would need to send first (and risk the buyer not pay, or make the buyer risk that you not send the coins after paying. I don't think any escrow would accept this trade because it would be too difficult for them to resolve any disputes, putting their reputation at ridk.

oh, come on , Walter !!
you are such a boot licker

You are calling me out, while he did not do his part of the deal,
this is unreal

whats in it for you ?

Actually, I get a lot out of teaching people how to relate better to each other and eliminate hostility and anger in their lives.  It's immensely rewarding at an emotional level.

And if I say anything that helps people learn to relate to each other better, it makes for a better Bitcoin community to live in.

You might remember a famous movie from many years ago that contained the line "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view."

There is a lot to learn in life from learning to understand the point of view of other people besides yourself, and learning to speak about subjects from different points of view, without leaping to brand a perspective "right" or "wrong," as you are doing here.  And if you want to do business you certainly have to be able to understand the point of view of your customers.

Being unable to understand a point of view that differs from your own, and punishing people with angry outbursts and namecalling makes you a very dangerous person to deal with, frankly.  I personally consider angry outbursts to be a form of temporary insanity.  When you are angry and there is adrenaline in your blood stream you are not thinking rationally, and the things you are thinking of doing or saying will usually make your problem worse!  If you learn to relax when you are frustrated and forbid yourself from choosing to have an angry outburst, over time you actually redirect the way the neural pathways in your brain are connected.  Instead of reinforcing the habit of anger and irrationality, your brain directs its efforts and its wiring toward being better at problem solving.  Even when somebody has wronged you this is absolutely invaluable, because in the end you really can't force someone to make things right with you by calling them names.  All you will do is make them want to get away from you as quickly as possible (and they may choose to punish you with anger, as well), and you make yourself look bad to everybody else.  There are better ways to solve your problems, and you can tell the facts of your situation to the world, without losing it and getting irrational.

Since this is going to get dragged into public whether anyone likes it or not, we might as well ask for clarification for the record - by "addressed the payment," do you mean you mailed the rest of it, as fiat currency?  Or am I confused?

Hey Walter,

What I meant by 'addressed' was that I addressed the issue. I told Bracek that every week he would receive a payment. I ended up sending 2 payments the first week a few days apart to show my commitment. Next payment is due this coming week.

Ah, okay.  I was looking at the address thinking that meant you had sent more.

I have no idea why I continue to follow this thread with morbid curiosity, but it's pretty apparent this is going to continue to get handled in the public eye.  I figured I might as well ask my question before somebody else with a similar misunderstanding started leveling accusations and accusatory language or something.

at least op is getting bitcoins back..  :)

something is better then nothing.. esp in the bitcoin world.

thanx,
you are one of the few bringing reason to this thread

damn thats one expensive lesson..  :-[

I could not agree more.

Also I bought one of your coins I am assuming a 5BTC...having Charlie sell is a good thing. I bet we haggled over 1 hour on it...had it been anyone else I would have most likely paid less...and they would have sent first.

why iz none of you righteous boyz calling Charlie out ?

he did not honor his words, again...

Sorry for my brevity but what exactly did Charlie not do?

he said he will make payments weekly,
no btc incoming since october 11th

I guess he is again "offline for a few days"

Can you quote your claim?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9320804#msg9320804

Charlie is probably one of the most known members on here.
With the BI saga, he's been in the public light for a while and he's not running anywhere.
He's admitted to owing you the BTC and has said that you will be paid.
I can understand that it's frustrating but ultimately Charlie will keep to his word.
Yes, maybe the deal wasn't well thought out but that is as much your fault as it is his.
He may be slightly late with payments but I'm sure there's a good reason for that.
Believe me, Charlie is no scammer and is not running away with your coins.
You will be paid. Just be patient. Getting all worked up on here won't really solve anything.
Stay calm. Nobody is taking sides here.

I think you're both wonderful people :)

GL

hey, Charlie,
can you "address the issue" some more ?

people, I hope you see now what kind of guy he really is,
beware...

If I ever get my btc back, it will be because he saw a bigger chunk to steal elsewhere.

I really hope things get resolved for you soon, Bracek. Good luck bud.

Maybe Charlie is low on cash (btc) and is having problems ponying up the required btc.

well, he addressed that one too,
said explicitly that I need not worry,
that he has more than enough to cover the debt

and even so,
how come he spent my money in the first place ?

I don't think it is accurate to say that he spent your money. The agreement was for him to sell the physical coins on your behalf and he would send you the money as he sold the coins (after the buyer confirmed receipt and confirmed there were no problems with them.

It was only after you opened a frivolous scam accusation against him that did he agree to pay you ahead of schedule

I admire your strength to sustain the wrong view,
nothing is frivolous here, guy is not returning my money,
he said he sold the coins long ago and did not pay up

nothing is ahead of schedule, and those first two payments were described as a token of good will ?
come on

lets do this :
send me some coins, and I'll give you third of them back as a show of good will,
do we have a deal ?

Charlie, where are you, why the delay ?
what is going on ?

Did Charlie not say that you have his telephone number, email address an home address? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to contact him via one of those means instead of bumping this thread daily? If he is not online then he will obviously not see this, but he would almost certainly receive a text message and/or a phone call

I see.

And he isn't responding to email, phone, text etc?

Sorry for the delay, I havent been online in a few weeks. Im going to buy some BTC or sell some more physicals to pay you more this week.

I just sent you 1.26 thats left in my wallet. https://blockchain.info/address/1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

I should be getting a payment of a few BTC early this week, will send to you when I do.

Already, I have sent 150 BTC. If I was going to scam you, I would not have sent anything at all.

You will be paid for these coins, every cent of it. I am a man of my word.


This is what I am saying. I dont know why we're keeping this thread going. I've paid him half and continuing to do it. I don't come onto the forums at all anymore.

If you don't hear from my, email me. My address is on CharlieShrem.com

Thanks.

Just a thought, perhaps you should honor what you say to a T and not waiver. I can see why the OP would be frustrated if you say you will pay every week then delay on a week's payment.

If you are a man of your word then you should be consistent in it on everything you say you do to a T.

Strange thread, but as it's public here's my .0002   ::)

Mr. Shrem has agreed there's a debt, offered a payment schedule and broken it.
He obviously has some stuff going on, not being online for a couple of weeks and never going on the forums, especially when there's a current one with his name and scammer in the same sentence, apart from his legal position.
There seems to be a subtext here as well, I understand that Mr. Shrem is high profile and well regarded by many, but I can't help thinking that Joe Normal would be getting a lot harder time for the way he seems, to me anyway, to be blowing bracek off.
It's no good keep saying everything's cool when it's not and then just walking off.

According to what has been said above, Charlie agreed to pay bracek as he sold the coins. When bracek made the scam accusation he was wanting to get paid ahead of schedule. Charlie made the mistake of creating precedent of paying ahead of time. 

I just read that he was going to be making weekly payments then missed one. That would not be keeping to one's word.

I read very carefully the whole debate.

Bracek is not pushy, and in my opinion has the right to create pressure.

After half a minute of browsing history of Charlie, I found this post
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724737.msg8600678#msg8600678

conclusion may be drawn that he managed to sell it, and then he was disappeared...

Talking that he has his email, phone nmb is just diversion, in my opinion.

The trust given by the guy who bought the coin confirms it.

First off, Charlie is a VERY TRUSTABLE PERSON. Basically I sent first, and received my coin in immaculate condition. Again, this man can be trusted and the value is beyond anything monetary, will do business again and again in the future in a heartbeat.
Best of luck to you.
Culex

At least he paid back some of the coins to OP.

thank you, guys,
for your support,

the game that is being played on me is becoming obvious

Well like I said via PM to bracek I have already bought one of his coins from Charlie, and if more are for sale hit me up. I am sure Charlie will pay you back, but I can understand the frustration also. Try to put yourself in Charlie's shoes...house arrest for a long time and finally some freedom...he is probably catching up on life and will deal with this soon. If he was scamming he certainly would not have paid you this much already. Anyways good luck and hope this deal finishes up soon. For what it is worth these coins are immaculate for anyone potentially buying them...my 5BTC Error coin graded MS-66!

Not to say Charlie is a scammer (because I have not enough info to make that judgement), but didn't PirateAt40 also pay lots of people over time as a sign of good faith while he ran his ponzi?

MNW also did the same concerning his pirate bet which I am one of the owed winners of the bet which MNW has not paid (now going on 2 years). He paid some out of "good faith".

I guess the question becomes "At what point in time does one become defined as a scammer after delaying to repay a debt?"

Bracek has right to open this thread!
I've read the whole thread (8 pages now) and the way bracek talk is really mature. actually I think Charlie Shrem is the one who seem not professional. I don't know about him but he seems like a guy who always talks the talk but never walks the walk.

Just sent another 1.5

83bee54a5a1e7cd5f20c15b36e065d45e3cef208b09d6986d96f7d2f3bffdb28

Will keep sending payments until full debt is paid. 22.76BTC paid so far. I've been sending payments every few days as I sell coins.

I sent some of the coins to be graded, and will be putting up the rest of the coins here to pay Bracek for them.

Charlie

you said you have enough usd to cover the debt,
what is going on with all this stalling ?
I want my money back !

@bracek - Do you dispute the first post that Charlie posted in this thread? In case you have forgotten what he wrote, here it is:
I added the bold because it is the reliant paragraph. It says that he would pay you as he is able to sell the coins, in other words he is going to act as your agent and was not buying them from you. IMO if this statement is true then you have no claim to any bitcoin from Charlie until he actually sells the coins and the buyer acknowledges receipt and confirms they will not ask for a refund. 

the guy is lying a lot about many things, there is no way to know if he sold coins or not, he first said to me that he sold them all long ago,
after that statement I waited more than a month and opened this thread

you have the payment address in this thread with all btc sent to it,

all but second transaction (0.5 btc), are from Charlie
total agreed value of the deal was 198 btc

Please post proof of your bolded claim above.

If you have proof of this this should be grounds to likely be considered a scammer/liar in my eyes. But this is only true if you can 100% prove your claim.

If it was a PM on this forum, Theymos or another admin can confirm it or deny it.

To be clear at this time I am not claiming Charlie to be a scammer or not as I do not know all of the facts.

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: July 27, 2014, 05:15:13 PM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »
   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on July 26, 2014, 10:37:12 PM


If you want to send them to me also, I'm sure I can sell them


ok, but not all in the same shipment

bye

Looking forward to the shipment! Im lining up some buyers, Id be able to sell them quickly for you!

Let me know when shipped.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: July 29, 2014, 07:41:51 PM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »
   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on July 29, 2014, 04:26:29 PM
that website I gave you for tracking is useless,
so I went to the post office,
they confirmed it has left croatian customs

and it will not arrive in 3-5 working days, but 10-12,
said the same clerk that took the package ?!?!
she denies she said 3-5 days yesterday...

at least, its moving

are you already "selling" them ?
It might help to have reservations and fixed prices until the actual trades happen

Yes I found the tracking already

RB794077455HR

http://ips.posta.hr/IPSWeb_item_events.asp?itemid=RB794077455HR&Submit=Submit

Yes I already sold 20 out of 30 !

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek, Yankee (BitInstant) on: August 02, 2014, 10:06:31 PM »
   Reply to AllReply to All Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on August 02, 2014, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: bracek on July 31, 2014, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2014, 09:00:26 PM

Just got an email it arrived in NYC !!

nice Smiley

Got the coins!!

I sold 24 so far, so send me a Bitcoin address  Grin I told you I can sell them!

I may have all 30 sold within a few days.

Let me know about your other coins, you can see the tracking here, it came pretty fast: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=RB794077455HR

Charlie

All 30 sold!!!

I owe you 90 BTC  Grin

Tell me where to send the funds

Charlie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so far so good, those coins mentioned above were paid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now about the second shipment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: August 03, 2014, 11:16:39 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on August 03, 2014, 11:06:26 PM


How many of each and what are the rest of the coins?

10x single with error @2.8
2 x single without error @1.4 ?
2 x 5btc @7
2 x 25 @ 27


I am sending to the same address, from the same postal office, to make it shorter, since now clerks know what and how to package

Ok cool

Thanks!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Discrecion
« Sent to: bracek, Yankee (BitInstant) on: August 03, 2014, 11:30:43 PM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »


Are you 100% sending me all these coins? I want to presell them but I need to know forsure before I offer them out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: August 08, 2014, 11:38:47 PM »
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   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on August 08, 2014, 11:37:15 PM
package is in new york,

if you are sending my 2 to be graded, please select the best looking ones

so, you really did not have any profit on the first shipment ?


Of course I did. OK

I presold these coins as well. However, Its hard selling these 25's
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: August 16, 2014, 09:10:53 PM »
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   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on August 13, 2014, 11:00:48 PM
the package has a return to sender option included,
if it is not picked up in time,
it will be shipped back to me, lets avoid that

Hey,

Package is at the post office, Im going to pick it up on Monday.

Ive sold all the coins, except for the 25's, I also kept 2 error coins to get graded for you.

So far:

8   1 BTC Error 2011
2   1 BTC 2011
2   5 BTC error 2012

= 39.2 I owe you.

As soon as I pick up the package, I will send you this BTC Smiley

Charlie
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so far so good, I got those paid as well, but now starts the trouble, I asked for those 25-s to be paid their nominal value,
no risk for him to do it, so I suggested he pays me 50 btc before he sells them
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: bracek on: August 24, 2014, 02:10:33 AM »
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   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
Quote from: bracek on August 18, 2014, 05:57:53 PM

actually, could you pay me 50 btc for them, and the rest when/if they get sold ?

Sorry for the delay in responding, I had some personal things to work on this week.

I guess I can send you 50 BTC, its only fair, Im holding onto your coins.

Send me your BTC address, Ill send it over.

Cheers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

after that he goes nonresponsive, and into evasion mode,
starts going personal and making diversions...

so here we are

I guess theymos or some other admin can confirm those above are valid copy/pastes  from my inbox

Regardless of if the PM's are legit or not, where exactly does he agree to prepay for the two 25 BTC coins? From the looks of it he was selling the coins before he had possession of them then would send the money to you once he received them in the mail. The key point is that the coins were sold and I assume that his buyers had paid him.

When you ask him to advance you the 50 BTC value of the unsold coins, you are essentially asking for an interest free loan from him. You would be able to spend the bitcoin however you choose while he would be forced to keep the 50 BTC locked up in the physical coins as if he were to spend the bitcoin they would lose their  value. Also you included a clause that he would owe you more once the coins actually sold so if he did spend the money in the coins he would essentially be forced to buy them at your asking price.

It looks like a much more appropriate request would have to asked Charlie to return the coins to you until he is able to sell them. Granted this would have cost you more because you would have had to pay shipping two extra times, however it would have been equitable for both of you

So let me try to get clarity, Charlie is in possession of TWO 25 BTC Casascius coins, agreed to send 50 BTC to you because he is holding the two coins while trying to sell them?

Which was last agreed upon on August 24th, 2014? (over 2.5 months ago)

So minus the 0.5 BTC he still owes 49BTC + any premium he sells the coins for?

...did I get that right?

At this point, if Charlie has sold the coins he owes bracek the coin. If Charlie has not sold the coins, he should just return the unsold merchandise and be done with it.

From what it looks like (although this is not 100% clear) Charlie has not sold either of the 25 BTC coins, however he has paid bracek a little more then 20 BTC as a sign of "good faith" so this would not be 100% possible. He could send one of the coins back but would first need to receive a refund in the amount that he has advanced bracek prior to sending the other back

If you look towards the end of the PM exchanges Bracek posted, Charlie says:

 "I guess I can send you 50 BTC, its only fair, Im holding onto your coins.

Send me your BTC address, Ill send it over.

Cheers."

That was August 24th. Apparently Bracek didn't receive the 50btc. (Trusting Bracek that the PM's are legit)

Hmmm, I must have missed that. Either way this would amount to what is essentially a gift to bracek and contracts involving giving gifts cannot be legally enforced. I would hardly label Charlie a scammer if he did in fact say this, although I somewhat doubt the authenticity of the PM as it appears that Charlie does not have a total of 50 BTC to advance him.

in the beginning of the thread I gave a link to his thread where he sells those two last coins,
they have been sold for months now

I even asked why did he delete original post of that thread, announcement of sale,
of course I added that exact original post too, all is here


from pms you can see he said he sold all but those two 25's

in the beginning of this thread, there is a link to his sale thread of those last two coins,
sale is completed,
and even before he sold them, he agreed to pay me their nominal value

I should have gotten 50 btc in either case, sold or not,
long time ago

and than there are 2 x singles with error
unpaid,
his intention was to grade them for me, I accept them graded, non graded or their btc value,

but that is less important now, since he IS a scammer

guys,
at the start of this thread is a link to the thread where he SOLD the last two coins, those big ones

I even waited after that sale to start my complaint publicly

timeline is like this :

all coins but 25's sold and paid for

2 x 25's sold not paid

my public complaint starts after a month or so (in the mean time he did not respond to pms)

here we are, months after the sale, and no btc for me

all is here in the thread, black on white,
but too many posts like "Charlie can't be a scammer, bracek is too agressive "
so info is spread across too many pages

So it has been over a month since this post above and payment hasn't been made in full.

It has been over 2.5 months since your August 24th claim that you would send bracek 50 BTC since you are in possession of the coins. The PMs have not been confirmed by an admin but I did request an admin verify bracek's claim.

One way or another the truth will come to light.

In your post above you claim you will take care of this and you are "happy to pay him the rest of this" if he would only contact you.

It is pretty clear that Charlie hasn't lived up to his word in his posts.

The PMs if verified ( if true and authentic) will make it clear that Charlie has in fact not kept his word and clearly is draggin this out for months even after claiming he would send bracek 50 BTC while he gets those coins sold.

If one is a man of their word then they should follow through on their claim of what they promised and not delay, otherwise why make the claim at all if it is dragging out the OP with his coins?

I still wonder at what point in time does not fulfilling your obligations turn into scamming even after it has been made clear you would settle this debt?

1 year? 6 months? 3 months? 1 month ?

Supposedly in the thread bracek pointed to two of my previous customers bought each one of the 25 BTC coins.

Now I do not know for sure if these are bracek's coins but I'm sure he could attempt to verify it with the buyers listed below:



Charlie, did you in fact sell those two 25 BTC coins of bracek's?

Verified.

Thank you for this.

Bracek is telling the truth.

Charlie given that what has been communicated via PMs is now verified about your claim in early oct to send 50 BTC to bracek you are in clear violation of your own words. Implying you are not a man of your word based on your actions.

It is now clear that you made a claim to pay bracek and now over a month later you have renneged on that and not shown you still have the coins.

One of my posts above shows two of my past customers buying 25 BTC casascius coins from you in August 2014. Of which it appears bracek has not gotten paid for (assuming those coins sold were his).

yes, those were my two coins and they are sold

Are you located in the US?

why is that relevant ?

Send him a formal demand letter using registered mail, and cc his lawyer (Marc Agnifilo). You can do that even if you're out of the US of course, but it might be more effective if you are.

thanx for the info, btw, I am in Europe

So the bitcoin payment for those two coins never went to you?

If so, then Charlie either has it or spent it on something else.

he sent approx 22.7 so far,
of 60 btc

that is 54 btc for 2 x 25s , and 2 singles with error (6 btc)

that is what he did not pay for yet

You are more than welcome to do this, however it'll probably delay this. I've already paid back over 80% of the funds owed to him.


Actually I sent 24.7 so far, another 2 was sent this morning.

https://blockchain.info/tx/80f5c0e81367d6f482fea941847658c313035fb456d82001ea77ee054833d7b0

Yes I've confirmed I sold most of the coins. I still have a few left I sent for grading. I never said I did not sell the 25 coins.

According to your address:

https://blockchain.info/address/1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd

I've paid 154 BTC for selling a total of 189.3 BTC worth of physical coins. That is 81.5% of the debt has been repaid and I am consistently repaying the debt here. I am not debating the validity of the debt.

As promised I will keep sending coins as I sell physicals until this debt has been repaid.

You guys can keep posting here every day, claiming I am a scammer, while in the background I will keep sending Bracek coins to repay the debt. I have never scammed anyone before, nor do I plan on doing so.

Will post again when more coins are sent.

It appears you are definitely not a man of your word as you appear to backpedal on things you've said in the past in PMs.

You sold TWO 25 BTC coins and then never sent the 50 BTC you promised to send bracek.

That to me is taking an interest free loan unannounced.

Not cool.

Define scamming please. Delaying on repaying a debt over a long period of time to me is scamming.

Personally I think you should go the extra mile in your repayment and make it worth bracek's time waiting. Otherwise you just got an interest free loan.

BTW I seen the thread where you sold the TWO 25 btc coins where you deleted the OP and other posts of yours within that thread. Questionable actions yet you have not explained yourself despite being asked by bracek why you would do that even though you sold his two 25's and didn't pay him.

Shady business dealing. Not cool.

If I have done one thing on this forum for over 3 years now consistently, it is to call a spade a spade.

This thread is motivation for you to make things right with bracek and your debt. Only since this thread started did you really start to be responsive obviously to protect your image naturally. Remember this debt has been in the making since August. 3 months ago.

I think the confusing thing is whether you have paid 100% of the proceeds you have actually received from selling Bracek's coins (leaving aside any compensation you were getting for arranging the sale).

If you haven't, then that seems to be different from the agreed transaction (essentially sell Casascius coins on consignment), and also seems to imply that you do not have the funds to pay Bracek.

If you don't have the funds because you haven't sold the coins, or are awaiting payment, then its a different story.

If not, if I was Bracek, I would be concerned both that you changed the term of the deal, and also that I have no visibility into how you plan to obtain funds to pay me... Especially given that my counterparty is awaiting sentencing that include forfeiture, penalties and possibly jail time.  

That makes sense, and concerning as well.

If you scroll to earlier posts, I addressed this. Originally the deal was for me to pay Bracek when I sell the coins. I got a little cocky early on and would pay him immediately upon receiving the physicals knowing I would be able to sell the coins. At this point, I still have some physicals coins that I already paid him for many weeks ago.

Unfortunately, our deal was not properly laid out. It did not go beyond "Pay me when you sell the coins". There was no contingency in place. I set a precedent by prematurely sending coins before I sold them. You can say that I effectively changed the deal to Braceks benefit by paying him earlier.

I do have enough physical coins to pay the rest of the debt. I mentioned earlier, I have sent over a dozen physical coins to be graded as well as privately selling coins on the forums. Every few days when I make a sale, I have been sending him the BTC, including this morning I sent another 2.

-Charlie


I've been paying back Bracek before this thread even started, and continued. In fact, most of the coins were sent to him before this thread was started.

You are more than welcome to call a spade a spade, call me a scammer, do whatever you want. I have never scammed anyone, always paid back debts and I dont plan on stopping now. The fact that I paid back over 80% can attest to that.

As for the delay, I am happy to pay the standard interest rate of prime + 1% in interest for the rest of the funds.

Currently, 35.3 BTC is left to be paid (out of 189.3)

4.25% (Prime 3.25% + 1%) = 1.5 BTC annually or effectively 0.03 weekly with compounding interest.

This is for the first 4 weeks:

Year   Week    Starting Value   Multiplier   Interest Earned   End Value
0   1   35.30   0.0815113156885 %   0.03   35.33
0   2   35.33   0.0815113156885 %   0.03   35.36
0   3   35.36   0.0815113156885 %   0.03   35.39
0   4   35.39   0.0815113156885 %   0.03   35.42

After every payment, we will recalculate the interest.

Source: http://www.ginifab.com/feeds/compound_interest_calculator/?p=35.3&r=4.25&m=52.14&t=1&fv=36.83&rr=4.34

smoothie,
thank you for helping me fight this,


regarding our bitcoin pioneer,
it is remarkable how a sale to pay me occurs only after a little more pressure here,
or how he in spite of being offline for a few weeks managed to see and respond to this thread within hours of creation...

I actually paid you 70% of the debt before this thread was created.


Yes, someone sent me a tweet asking me if this thread was legitimate. You could have easily emailed me, sent me a twitter, or facebook.

I've offered to pay you interest for the delay, I only have 35 left, so I will pay you 4.25% interest per week.

EDIT: I meant to say 4.25% annually accrued weekly. At the rate I've been paying, it should be paid back in a few weeks.

-Charlie

Like I said because his reputation is on the line that is why I believe he is so apt to respond now.


Really? 4.25% interest weekly? Lol

Incorrect. I paid 70% of the debt before this thread was created. I've always responded. Emails, tweets, calls, ect. He only created this thread because I didn't log onto the forums for a few days. In that time he could have easily emailed or called me. Since its created, I've continued to pay and not 81.5% of the debt has been repaid.


*Sorry, I meant to say 4.25% annually accrued weekly. At the rate I've been paying, it should be paid back in a few weeks.

Fixed original thread.

I am glad to see some final date on all of this,

but I doubt it will be over that easily...

Understood. I am going as fast as I can. I appreciate that its annoying to have to wait, so I offered interest every week.

I am paying you weekly interest (at 4.25% annually), this will make sure I pay you back as soon as possible. The longer it takes me the more I have to pay you

-Charlie

Just my two cents that I think what is fair is paying that interest rate for as long as the debt has been delayed to be repaid. Meaning weeks prior to this should account as well if that was not your plan originally posted earlier today.

I think its fair if we start the day Bracek PM'ed me to ask for the remaining 60 BTC (from the 2 coins) on October 4th. Thats 5 days before this thread was created. That means we are currently 6 weeks in.

According to: http://www.ginifab.com/feeds/compound_interest_calculator/?p=60&r=4.25&m=52.14&t=1&fv=62.60&rr=4.34 (http://www.ginifab.com/feeds/compound_interest_calculator/?p=60&r=4.25&m=52.14&t=1&fv=62.60&rr=4.34)

So, 60BTC at 4.25% annual compounding interest.

Year   Weeks   Starting Value   Multiplier   Interest Earned   End Value
0   1   60.00   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.05
0   2   60.05   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.10
0   3   60.10   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.15
0   4   60.15   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.20
0   5   60.20   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.24
0   6   60.24   0.0815113156885 %   0.05   60.29

Since I have paid back 24.7BTC out of 60BTC as of this morning, I currently owe:

60.29BTC - 24.7BTC = 35.59BTC

-Charlie

If you are paying interest and it will likely take a long time sell the two coins why don't you just send one of the 25 BTC coins back to braek to cover the majority of the rest of the debt?

It won't take a long time. I've already sent most of the physicals for grading or sold them. I can send them back to him, but by that time the debt will likely be paid.

The interest works in everyones favor. I am incentivized to pay him faster, and I've started the interest from 6 weeks ago to be fair.

Thanks

Charlie

months are passing, no money coming in...

What else can you do about it?
This thread only seems to be getting you unfulfilled promises....

Did Charlie provide an actual payment schedule?

This seems to be an ongoing thing.

You really need to set a payment schedule and stick to it and stop wavering on what you say versus what you do. This is the kind of shady crap that people take and equate to scammers.

he said he will pay weekly (amounts of about 10 btc), on the day this thread was created...

my read was good all along, he is a scammer.
a fine one

that's the way you do it,
money for nothing...

any suggestions on how to turn the remaining debt into some kind of bounty ?
for fun, since he is having it from the beginning

it should get interesting if btc gains in value...

Bracek when was your last communication with Charlie? Via any means?

I had a feeling this would happen. This practically mirrors my interactions with Charlie/Bitinstant since Feb of 2013.

off this thread, maybe 2 months ago, I see no point in contacting him,
only public pressure...

Over two weeks and still no progress or communication from you.

Very bad as you keep claiming you are a man of your word yet you go silent when it matters.

A payment schedule you stick to would be the only thing I can see to salvage your reputation. Stringing things along longer and longer only makes you look more like a scammer.

According to his Twitter feed, the coin shouldn't be a problem, looks like he's found "a good way".....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10349972_769082383163390_826629295596553366_n.jpg?oh=7acf42a6ff89849e15ea03ba21516063&oe=5510BE7E&__gda__=1427225390_d7feeeb1d5aa1432ac97d2fa5007e543

I'm interested in options, so I had a look at them, saw Belize in the t&c and read this standard stuff

"We're a bunch of bitcoin enthusiasts, traders and programmers who have been involved in the Bitcoin space from the very beginning."

I'm sure they're legit, but I wonder how many people have been involved in Bitcoin "from the very beginning". Thousands, if all the claimants are to believed.

I sent a link of this thread to his tweeter,
but I can't see/find it anywhere...

any idea why ?

thats shit load of bitcoin... 60 btc..

at least the op is attempting to pay back.. then nothing at all.

he should have paid a long time ago.
even if he pays today, it shows me he is not a man of his word. even tho i don't know about OP, I am stressed for 60 BTC! it is a lot of money.

as I said long time ago,
he decided to cash in on his reputation here,

if you see in his feedback/reputation history,
my deal was his first bigger deal and he took off with the money

This is exactly how I see it.

Charlie Shrem is not a man of his word even though he may pay back this debt some day  ::)

Very disappointing that he manipulated a user with his reputation to get something for nothing (in terms of not paying for what was sent to him even after he sold some of it.)

As I found the 25 btc coins were sold in August and were never paid to bracek even though they were sold.

This is robbing Peter (bracek) to pay paul (charlie's bills etc.).

Keep bumping this thread every other day or so until he pays it all back (if he does).

ORLY?

Wow I am really surprised he has not taken care of this yet. I have done a few deals with Charlie and never an issue, but I totally understand while OP is pissed. I really hope Charlie gets this sorted out ASAP as it does look pretty bad.

Not that it matters, but I personally  think he will get this paid off + the interest due. We all know he has gone through a bunch of legal issues, and I am sure that has a lot to do with this lack of reply/payment.

Bracek, I'd be pissed too if I was you. Good luck, hope you get paid.

Blazedout, I agree there's a good chance the debt is eventually paid. Charlie could have a cash flow problem and doesn't want to admit it.

I don't know if it was true or not, but when I started this thread,
Charlie said he had enough USD to pay me off, he mentioned exact sum...



is anybody interested in buying out this debt at discount ?
someone closer to him ?

How much of a discount are you talking about? How much is owed to you as of now?

I suppose that is one solution for you. Hopefully someone will buy it at a high enough price.

I think it is around 35 btc currently,
are you offering something or just asking about ?

A little of both, although I would not be able to make the first offer, and I would almost certainly not be able to buy the entire amount owed.

Man, Charlie, you had everything going on for awhile.  Now it's come to this...

This is really not him scamming. This is really more Bareak making a big deal out of the fact that it is taking a long time for Charlie to sell physical bitcoin

Approaching a month since this statement was posted
Hope that the OP gets their coins back or the interest on the principal

read the thread carefully,
to talk like you do is bad for your karma

Do your research before posting. You obviously do not know the whole story. To me this is equivalent to scamming already based on all the facts that have been confirmed.

While Charlie is certainly delinquent in his payment, there was never a specific date set for repayment.... so technically there was no agreement broken because they never specified beforehand. He may have made other agreements after the fact but since no additional exchange is made it does not have the same force as far as a contract is concerned. Both parties clearly participated in the shoddy construction of this agreement. This of course does not release Charlie from his debt, but I don't think you could define it as scamming just yet as he has shown some intent to deliver the debt, just maybe not the ability just yet.

On the contrary, the deal was that once coins were sold payment would be sent to bracek.

TWO 25 BTC Casascius coins were sold in August 2014 and that payment never directly got to bracek. At least from what facts have been exposed.

So no I have to disagree with you there. Charlie is a scammer in my view.

Charlie said he would pay back every week. It has been a month...and not a word.

Coincidence? I think not. More of the same: Say something and not back it up with his actions.

I disagree with the consensus in this thread, I think these funds will most likely be repaid with delay. I haven't met or spoken with Charlie but I believe he's a reasonably trustworthy person, from what I can see it simply seems like he doesn't have access to enough bitcoins at the moment.

I'm willing to seamlessly buy the debt at a fair price and allow Charlie up to 6 months of zero scrutiny to return the funds as long as he is fully aware of what's going on and approves the debt transfer.  Before moving forward I'd also like some sort of update from him, I'm a patient person but I'd like an idea of when he will have available funds.


PM me your offer for the debt and we'll move from there.

He fucked the OP over plan and simple, he stole the coins with the hopes of speculating on some bullshit bitcoin scam and he got short dicked, when he couldn't pay he started pussy footing around the issue buying time. Sold the coins at a 600 valuation in august and still cant repay at a 300 valuation today.

Walter block kissing ass and others, none have neg rated him... including you smoothie!

I would be careful dealing with barcek, (look at his username - it is very close to Obama's first name - certainly untrustworthy) he seems to not be the most honest trader on here, not by far.

I know that he has posted an address that he said will not change, and asked someone to quote him in case his account were to get hacked. Someone had quoted him on this thread, but after checking the entire thread twice I am unable to find either message.

If you do get an offer from barcek I would suggest having badbear restore the deleted posts and getting a signed message from the same address that was posted. The only address that barcek has posted is here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.msg9155054#msg9155054).

Good call, I'd likely be leaving that burden on Charlie though. If they have communication through another channel and he can confirm that this is indeed the correct person I would require him to pay me back the remaining coins regardless of whether or not his confirmation was correct. It shouldn't be difficult for him to 100% prove it and it would be a small amount of effort for a 6 month payment extension without someone constantly bad mouthing his name/reputation.

It appears that barek does not have any intention of communicating via other channels, other then in ways that make a public scene of the situation. You are not the only one who offered to buy the debt, but it doesn't appear that he is actually serious about selling it, he only wants to trash Charlie's reputation.

Charlie is trashing charlie's reputation... the OP has been more than understanding. Its not cool to sell someones assets then user thier money for your own purposes and take your sweet ass time paying back, breaking payment schedule one after another. Its been a long time, there is no doubt he no longer has the coins. Maybe his "coin grader" is LE and they needed more time to take a closer look at the coins and casascius in general?

I cannot point to a single post by the OP in which he was "understanding" to the situation. Nor have I seen irrefutable proof that Charlie has actually been able to sell the coins.

The OP has been bumping this thread for months while he had access to contact information for Charlie the entire time that he choose not to use to even *try* to get ahold of charlie by. He even took a long time in responding to Charlie's request for a BTC address to send payment to when he was receiving emails from someone claiming to be the OP to send him payment.

That is because it was an obvious stall tactic, I will let the OP respond if he cares to, there really is no need the thread and timeline speak for itself. If he could sell the coins or not makes two shits one way or another he could have settled this.  

Have you been reading the same thread I've been reading? While I think bracek's communications are crude he has a valid point. Charlie writes politely but has repeatedly made promises only to break them / backpedal. Charlie downplays the issue by saying he can pay back fast and that he's making regular payments... But the last payment I see on the wallet address was on 2014-11-19. In my book Charlie is screwing over bracek. I would be pissed too.

An obvious stall tactic by bracek.

if you looked at all the facts about this situation and how Charlie has conducted himself perhaps you would see how dishonest he has been all the while trying to make people perceive him as an honest member.

Anyone who says they will do something and does not deliver and makes excuses or goes silent is a scammer (unless they passed away).

Good point. Will do today.

Have you neg. rated him yourself?

This ^ is the dumbest reason I've ever heard of why a user is untrustworthy!


"Look Stunna has two N's in his username, he must be a nazi^2 and therefore a scammer^2."

Lol  ;D

Why not make it public?

Do you know that Charlie only really became active in responding once I started calling him out on this thread based in the verified facts?

Charlie can fix this if he so chooses. But once again that would require him actually finishing his claims and not backing out like he has over and over.

I've said he needs to have a set payment plan they both agree on and stick to it. No flailing around.

Yes

I will keep everything public,
since you trust Charlie, paying for his debt at 90% should not be a problem ?
do we have a deal ?

payment to the same address as posted somewhere above

here it is :

1EYn7SvBGm6PGgzq6XCQ74MB5RXvRT7USd


offer is the same for all Charlies boot lickers,
if you can speak for him, let your money speak too,
he is an honest guy, we all know it, I just have no more patience,
that is all, I trust him too, we all should

so it should be an easy 10% or almost 4 btc, go for it,
I could find at least 5 people here that should be willing to grab this opportunity

Do you have info on where he lives or ways people can collect this debt in real life? Otherwise 90% is way too high for someone who buys/considers getting into debt collection.

Regardless of if someone has his location in RL 90% on delinquent debt if absurdly high. When collecting on behalf of someone else the norm for a collection agency would be to keep between 25-33% of the amount actually collected and if they are purchasing delinquent debt will receive a much larger discount. On a NPV basis, someone assuming a 5% discount rate and a 90% chance of full repayment with a 10% chance of no repayment (after 6 months), the debt is worth ~60% of the face value today.

Furthermore it would be reckless for anyone to outright send money to you in this fashion without Charlie acknowledging the transfer of debt as he would likely otherwise send the BTC to your address first and then post here and find that you have sold the debt. IMO this is nothing short of you trying to scam Stunna (and anyone else considering buying your debt) as I can assure you that you have no intention of repaying any overpayment you would receive.

Not only that but it would be stupid for anyone to blindly send money to that address without you first acknowledging who you are selling the debt to specifically as anyone could potentially claim they sent BTC to the address   

but, guys, 90% is a steal,
real bargain with a guy like Charlie,
he is our bitcoin pioneer , who wouldn't trust him ?

so, easy 4 btc as I said before,
we just need someone from posts above,
someone who knows how good and honest Charlie is and who can step in for him...

I see what you did there. lol  :D

I'm waiting to see who steps up to the plate that supports Charlie to buy out this debt! 

No it is not. As I explained above with even a cheap discount rate 90% is overpaying if you are going to give him 6 months to repay. Even if he was guaranteed to repay the debt with a 5% discount rate the debt is worth ~71%.

You are probably going to say that you are suffering as a result of him delaying payment, however you would have nothing if it were not for him because you would not be able to have sold any of the coins in the first place

He just got sentenced to 2 years in prison..

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-12-19/ex-bitcoin-foundation-s-shrem-gets-2-year-term-in-silk-road-case

I assume that is why he has been sort of distracted...might make that repayment date a tad longer  :-\

Probably also why he hasn't logged in for the past month.

Yeah I figured something was up..and assumed it had to do with his legal issues. Let's hope he will somehow get Bracek taken care of.

He will probably only do around 1/6 of the time.

No biggie.

Well it looks like it will be at least until Charlie gets out of prison until Barak (or anyone who buys his debt) will get repaid

Well attending a court case and getting some time in jail will certainly keep you distracted from checking the forum for IOUs you have.

It takes <20 seconds to send a Bitcoin payment..... that is no excuse.

Sucks, but isn't a excuse.

I am gonna remove my neg rating, sorry you lost your coin for now, but you knew he had pending chargers and I am sure will make good eventually.

I can't believe that this has not been resolved yet or a payment arrangement hasn't been made. It looks like Charlie has been given the benefit of the doubt but his disappearance and lack of cooperation is starting to cast this in a rather bad light here.

This ^. It wasn't like he didn't have time to make sure his obligations were in order. The guy borrowed coins from Bracek in August 2014.

This would explain why he hasn't been around but there was much time before he "went away".

It would have been nice if he posted on the forum (or anywhere on the internet) that he is going away to jail just so people know.

Seems to me like he just doesn't care. But then again that is my own perspective of how things have played out.

Now the debt will likely not be repaid for quite some time. And when that time comes when he is available I would not be surprised if the price of Bitcoin is much higher than $1000 each.

He was easily able to make time to GET a loan on this forum....but to pay it back in full was not on his priorities list as it is not done to this day.

So did Charlie. He also knew he had pending charges yet he took out a loan and failed to make enough effort to pay it back.

My neg rating will remain until I hear back from Bracek that it is paid in full.

Who knows when this will ever be paid and what price bitcoin will be when he is able to make another effort to pay back?

I'm pretty sure that his attorney got paid in full.

Supposedly he went to prison for 2 years recently.

Charlie did not borrow any money. He received physical coins from barrack so he could sell them on his behalf. There is a very big difference. If Charlie did not engage in this transaction then barrack would not have any of the coins that Charlie has "repaid"

Technically it is the same as borrowing because Charlie would not be able to get a cut from sales of physical coins that weren't his.

He still has possession of bracek's physical coins. Bitcoin = money to me so essentially he borrowed money. Something of value that is liquid.

Let's not get too far off track on a tiny technicality.

Bottom line: Charlie still has a debt to pay which means he must have borrowed something. He was the middle man. It is no different when bullion banks lease gold from central banks and sell them into the market...they are essentially borrowing gold/money and need to pay it back ounce for ounce.

I'm sure most people here have read the news, given his current position the delay isn't completely unreasonable and this is what I had somewhat suspected was the case but to a much greater extent. If I were still to buy the debt I would buy it at a drastically reduced cost than the 10% discount OP offered. If charlie is somewhat responsible he should make it his duty to have someone within his family or network contact bracek and sort out this situation on his behalf.

I wish you (bracek) the best of luck in reaching him and getting your coins returned and I'm sorry you had to deal with this sort of unfortunate situation.

Looks like he is still a free man (for the time being):

https://twitter.com/charlieshrem

No excuse why this shouldn't be taken care of before the 90 day period is over.

I've wondered if the terms of his settlement might be part of the issue.

If you recall, Mike Caldwell stopped Casascius because his lawyers said he could be deemed to be a money transmitter.  "A lot of the discussion I had with my legal counsel is that part of what makes it money transmitting is there is no way for me to know whether the person ordering is the person receiving. In other words it is money transmitting because each order "could" be a money transmission with no way to know. Restricted delivery changes that aspect of the story."  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=243341.msg6789094#msg6789094

Charlie is just doing the opposite of what Mike was doing.

its likely the terms of any settlement would include things like Charlie agreeing not to violate money transmitting and other laws again.  This is fairly common in financial crime settlements / convictions.

So maybe one of his lawyers came across this transaction, and told him to stop it, especially pending sentencing.

But if this was the case, you'd think they could tell Charlie he could just return the physical coin.  But maybe Charlie had already sold the coin, so had not other options than to (i) pay Bracek, and potentially violate the terms of his settlement or (ii) just stop responding.

Or his lawyers just told him to stop dealing in bitcoin at all, regardless of whether it meant he would default on commitments.

That is possible. But then he would owe Bracek something anyway.

He could just come on here and state why he is delaying and just be upfront instead of making sorry excuses.

LOL @ Charlie Shrem responding and giving blockchain address: 1JauAZU9zLgR5C4D2QLQUGZMzEC1s6ZpVi

as an address for people to donate to who feel bad for him on twitter...

Someone should call him out on twitter and say where's bracek's address, you still owe him tons. Looks like that address has rec'd 0.18 BTC so far.

link?

https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem/status/546367889625079808 (https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem/status/546367889625079808)

so not only is Chucky Shrem a scammer, he's also a pussy and a fool

the guy with the 60 btc stolen by Shrem should watch his back .. most likely Chucky is talking to the US Attorney about all the people he did business with, and others will soon be arrested as he RATS THEM OUT

It isn't illegal to do business in the bitcoin world. Also he would likely have 'ratted people out' before he was sentenced in order to get a lesser sentence

I like how the people with the biggest mouths have the least involvement in the situation.

Just because I have no skin in the game is no reason for me not to care.

My reputation for over 3 years has been to call out the scammers that do shady dealings.

How big of a mouth do you have given you have posted in this thread that "doesn't involve you"?  ::)

good job Smoothie! keep up the good work.

and bracek I hope you get your btcs back.

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CG37HdxP

Pastebin: list of all posters in order.
Below: Count of each poster sorted by frequency.

I didn't quote it in the other post, but this is the context of the above statistics. I was asked via PM what it was for, this way everyone knows.

Odd that I have no right to speak, I was among the first to be screwed over by Charlie and Bitinstant and have been voicing it for the last 2 years. When every other long timer turned their heads because "Charlie wouldn't scam", I was leaving negative trust for him here and on the OTC and catching shit for it. The guy is a scammer through and through, and it's quite evident by his actions in this thread that he planned this, as he responded for months after learning he would be going to jail. Anyone giving Charlie slack right now is just pathetic.

To compose a list of this caliber it sure looks like you are attempting to be involved.

I still stick to my reputation on how I have dealt with scammers and shady dealings on this forum: Calling them out no matter who they are.

Took some time to read this thread in its entirety...Rawted did you ever get the check that Charlie claim he would cut for you in fiat to settle the bitinstant fiasco?

Yes, I received a check for $360, my initial purchase amount in Jan 2013. I had originally purchased 20 BTC from his company.

This is good to hear about. Hopefully he doesnt leave Bracek hanging on this debt.

Doubt hes going to pay it. Probably gonna do his time and come out thinking he owes nobody as all will have forgotten (if thats the case couple years down the road).

I think the opposite way. By now he was under pressure, the jail will be a break for it, he will have time to think.
After being released from prison will become a "rehabilitated" and different, like the guys after military service become men  :)
then he can start to resolve his debts to continue normal life.

If Bracek could wait success of BTC as early adopter, I think it is not difficult to wait for that scammer to come back and squeezed him in perhaps a more sophisticated way.

Charlie, buy some bitoin now with that money you said you had...

Buy bitcoin? I thought he was suppose to use the bitcoin he received from sales of physical coins?

Why don't you explain how him buying bitcoin to pay you would be fair?

Alright. Charlie agreed to sell the physical coins. He created the impression that they were an easy sell and that he had buyers lined up. Yet, months down the line bracek has not been paid for the sale. It is fair for bracek to get paid. How Charlie obtains the funds to pay is not that relevant.

Would you please explain how it is fair that bracek doesn't have his physical coins and didn't get paid for them either?

And on a side note - if you're in the explaining mood already - why did you buy an account that has only 36 posts? Good luck on your posting spree to get some money out of that signature campaign.

It would be very difficult to sell the physical coins unless you are very trusted. My impression of the situation was that barek approached charlie to sell the coins on his behalf and charlie is giving barek a premium over the value of the bitcoin in the physical coins. Charlie will need to sell the coins above both their face value and above the premium (or at the premium) that barcek is getting in order to pay him "back". Charlie has also paid money out of his own pocket in order to get the coins graded (getting coins graded is not free). He is providing barcek a service by selling the coins on his behalf.

If barcek were to have the physical coins in his possession then all he could do with them is hold them as if he were to spend the bitcoin in the coins they would lost the majority of their value

It is very simple: Charlie has not paid bracek the remaining balance of BTC owed to him for coins he has sold of has in his possession.

Charlie stood to gain from grading the coins as he could mark them up and get a larger cut should the grading be on the high end. I bet bracek could care less about grading and just wanted to sell the coins.

Your understanding of the stituation appears to be very poor. There, one more post for you to reply to on your signature spam run. Mind you, this is the last one I'm giving you.

More so Charlie has time before he goes to prison to make good on this past due debt.

Will he?

The outcome of the question will truly determine his character.

Right now he is a scammer. I could care less how well known he is.

The facts are all well documented in this thread.

The definition of "scammer" generally differs from person to person, so it is unlikely the community will be able to agree on if Charlie is a "scammer"

I would say that he is most likely not going to repay the OP prior to him going to prison. He has not posted since being sentenced and has little reason to do so now. It is unlikely that many/any people will remember this incident by the time he gets out (regardless of if he repays him after he does so).

The most important thing is that bracek will not forget.

I see  bracek have good advice for Charlie, this is his chance to buy at low price!