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I don't know if anybody else saw this. but they just announced the very first Asic for SIA, called the Obelisk SC1.

http://cryptomining-blog.com/8837-siacoin-sc-to-get-a-dedicated-mining-hardware-asic-device/

Sia Coin is primarily used to buy and sell data storage space. To be honest, I had no idea SIA was in any way/ shape / form legit enough to warrant ASIC development for their blockchain.

Everything I knew about SIA could be summed up in 2 phrases 1) backed by storage space, and 2) You can dual mine it with Ethereum.

PLEASE edumacate me. I want to know everything now that there's an ASIC coming out. What wallet should I use? All I've found thus far is an official desktop wallet, which isn't that bad, but kind of a pain.

I tend to think the introduction of this new ASIC should bring about a lot of new interest in SIA. Look at what's happened to Litecoin and Dash since the advent of Scrypt and X11 ASICs that mine them. "Correlation" does not indicate "causation", since ASIC companies choose which coins they think are worth pursuing and blahblahblah

LONG STORY SHORT -

1) I think the price of SIA will go up either BECAUSE of these Asics, or because of the reason Obelisk decided to produce the Asic in the first place, or some combination of the two.

2) I. want. this. Asic. I admit, I know very little about SIA, but since I'm bullish on crypto mining, I'm willing to risk the hardware costs just to have the first ASIC that mines SIA. I have to think I am not alone.

3) Until we get more info later in the week, this announcement creates more questions than it answers... Specs, power consumption, hash rate etc. Most importantly: What's the price? Where do you buy it? Who do you buy it from?

In the words of Futurama, "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!"

If anybody here has any real information... or speculation, rumors, questions of your own, hunches and guesswork, PLEASE post below...

Even if you just want to make up disinformation to throw us off the sent, I'm desperate and I need a fix.
 :'( :'( >:( :o :-[

I'd like to know the source of this because right now everything I saw said "details" by Friday -- now it seems the rumor mill is calling this an Asic.

It doesn't say how much mega hash will produce this in order to calculate the earning and the profit.
Sia coin is growing good and I see that it is listed in the poloniex in the most traded coins for many days or weeks now.

The developers said it was https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6ig4i7/thread_for_questions_about_proof_of_work_asics/

It could be very profitable. The SIA algo is very easy to implement onto an ASIC. Speeds could be very similiar to SHA256.

So if they came out with a 1TH/s SIA miner, that would generate about ~$2000/day.

...but wouldn't that 2000/day payout go down once these machines are added to the Sia network? I think they'll still definitely be worth it, but maybe/probably / definitely not 2000/day worth it...

...unless I'm missing something...

Diff will skyrocket but it will create an asic "movement" which will be a cycle that goes like this

Cost 1st gen asic > Asic Mines > Difficulty > Profit > Cost next gen asic > Next Gen Asic Mines > More Difficulty > Profit > Cost...

So in a nutshell there will be miners that will buy the asic for a cost, the asic mines on the network, this drives up the difficulty, people with Asics earn profits but the profits begin to dwindle, then comes a new cost of 2nd gen asic, 2nd gen asic hits network and mines, drives up difficulty again, owners of asics make profits... rinse/repeat.

In a nutshell this will drive up SIA cost to some degree but time will tell how much because today $1 USD varies but has been hovering around 60SC per $1 USD. If people mine more coins faster and then sell them off for profits, it's going to drive coin value down. However traders will likely buy up SIA ahead of asics in an effort to buy low sell high and it will driive costs up. Over time, if the technology SIA brings to the table really changes cloud storage (I think it will) the value of SIA coin will go up.

This is all speculation about whether or not Asics will drive up the price or not, I suspect it will over time but it's unclear how much time it will take, look how long it took LTC to take off and Scrypt Asics have been out for years.

As I believe in SIA and have a Minebox coming, I will probably buy this Asic if the price is right.

Thanks Eyedol,

Do you think you can explain to the thread what is the Minebox? What does it do exactly? Where is the best place to get one.

(Please) cure my ignorance... from what I can gather, it's a data storage device that allows you to sell that data storage for Sia? I've already said more than I know...

Minebox is a decentralized cloud Network Attached Storage that utilizes the SIA Blockchain to store your data in the cloud (it's what the SIA technology is designed to do) -- SIA is not just a "currency"

Minebox uses a 20 of 50 redundancy so for example if you upload "ImportantDocument01" to your Minebox, it then replicates pieces of that file on 50 other hosts across the planet. If your minebox dies or you lose your file somehow, you can download it from the cloud and only 20 of the 50 hosts are needed to recover your file(s). Hosts are vary across the network and are chosen at random.

Separately, the Minebox allows you to "sell" your unused storage space to the cloud via smart contracts. Contracts pay you in SIA Coin for both storage and bandwidth usage of the data being accessed. As long as you uphold your end of the contract terms you will be paid but if for some reason you take a contract and take your host offline, you will not get paid. Contracts can vary in length and capacity and you have control over how much or how little you make available to the cloud along with how much you charge.

The more hosts on the SIA network, the stronger the "cloud" file system becomes.

Minebox IMO is a confusing name for this device because it does not do traditional "Mining" like a GPU or Asic does.

Minebox Batch 1 is available for pre order on http://www.Minebox.io and here is another thread I started that has more details - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1812294.0

Like I said on the other thread, price is determinant to build ASICS. This is bad as a whole, ASICS destroy everything.

I don't know if ASICs "destroy everything"... I mean, not if YOU have one (or more) when they're first released.

What they DO ruin is GPU mining, so you might want to set your GPU rigs to mine SIA now (by itself or as a dual mine with Ethereum). It's your last chance to stack Sia before the Asics alter the hash rate...


..

So what would happen to the initial price of Sia once ASICS are released into the wild both short-term and long-term?

Once things get centralized towards the big miners, I fear that prices are going to tank given the huge influx of coins being released. Yeah things will taper off once difficulty increases but that won't be for awhile. The only public response from Taek on how it effects prices in his response to another Reddit poster seems to be that "inflation" is lower than other coins, which doesn't inspire much confidence. I interpret it as either a "nobody knows" or "it will be fine in the long-run".

Anybody familiar with how prices were like when ASICS were first released on the market with Bitcoin and Litecoin?

Maybe a history lesson would help.

It's a good question... What affect WILL ASICS have to the price of Sia?

Of course it's hard to say definitively what will happen to the price of any alt coin; crypto currency is such a new asset class, it's all uncharted territory. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself...

That being said and at the risk of stating the obvious, there are only THREE (3) coins to currently have devoted ASIC miners: Bitcoin, Dash and Litecoin.

All three coins EXPLODED in price after ASICs were added to their blockchain... They continue to rise in price now, even as their 1st and 2nd generation ASICs are updated and replaced with more powerful machines.

As the Freakinomics guys would point out, "correlation does not mean causation", and umbrellas don't make it rain. Just because those three coins exploded in price after ASICs were introduced to their blockchain, doesn't (necessarily) mean that asics on a network MAKE the price of a coin go up... (tho they may help).

Companies like Baikal, Antminer, Zeus, Pinidea etc. STARTED producing asics for those algo BECAUSE they were winning coins in the first place. The ASICs didn't hurt their price, and it's possible they helped by strengthening the coins infrastructures, heigthening security etc.

While the big money players seem to be dominating BTC hash (see Bitfury's Blockbox), I don't think the same can be said for Dash and Litecoin; at least not yet.

As for what ASICs mean for Sia coin... well, I think this'll in the very least raise awareness for Sia among people like us... I for one was rather unfamiliar with Sia Coin prior to the announcement... My opinion of Sia, and outlook wfor its future has drastically changed this week. I gotta think I'm not alone..

Asics will also help build out their data storage infrastructure... tho I admit, I'm not really sure how all that works.

TLDR : I think these Asics are an indication Sia will soon be valued similar to larger market cap alt coins already thriving in the data storage crypto coin sector. look to those coins for a near term price indication.

I'm sad I wont be able to dual mine Sia with Claymore after they ASICs are released but, if this ends up driving up their market share and increasing the price per coin then that is good in the long run.

At the very least, the announcement of the ASIC miner has generated a lot of attention towards Sia which could potentially bring a lot more miners and users into the system which will be good for it.

I hear ya. I'm trying to dual mine and stack as much Siacoin now in anticipation of the upcoming Asic. I figure since they're just announcing it now, so we may have some lead time to GPU mine some a relatively good amount. If the asics raise the difficulty of the blockchain, then the amount of Sia you can gpu mine BEFORE the asics come on line should still be somewhat significant... especially if the price shoots up down the road.

What kind of rig(s) / set up are you currently using? hash rate? Can you recommend any adjustments, pools, gpu models etc thatchave helped?

Thanks in advance for any and all input you can give.

If this "first ASIC" is built on an older process node like 55nm, it's not going to be a huge cost or risk to whoever designed it.

Keep in mind that the Baikal is 28nm yet sells faster than Baikal can make them right now because it's the best performance option currently available.


 The Gridseed GC3355 back in Scrypt days was a 55nm device - yet Gridseed appears to have made a TON of money on them before folks started selling 28nm ASIC (KNC, Innosilicon A2, Alcheminer, among others).


 I don't see ASIC having ANY price effect on SIA - they will affect PROFITABILITY but that's not the same thing at all.



 There are quite a few coins that have dedicated ASIC - all SHA-256 coins (NOT just Bitcoin), ALL Scrypt coins (Litecoin, Doge, DGB among MANY others), ALL X11 coins (DASH and some more have MULTIPLE ASIC devices available for them - and the Baikal ASIC also does X13/X15/Qubit and 1 or 2 more algos (DGB I know has a qubit option).

 Litecoin price did NOT explode when ASIC showed up for it - it was dropping slowly from it's ATH by that point and CONTINUED to drop 'till it eventually got down to around $2 for a long time.  (it kicked up into the $3.50-$5 range after the halfing, and STAYED there for about a year, then SegWit adoption got approved and it started jumping).

 DASH - price didn't change any more than it's normal variability when ASIC showed up for it, but that's when I dropped GPU mining on X11 as it became totally unPROFITABLE very quickly.

 I'm not sure on the timing for Bitcoin vs ASIC, but I'm sure that the price did not change because ASIC showed up for it, ASIC showed up for it because it's price was rising enough to make it a good risk for ASIC makers TO make machines for it.

 It could be argued that DOGE died in part due to ASIC - the final nail in the coffin for DOGE was when they decided to make it merge-mineable, it's not been worth more than some small number of Satoshi since.

Webpage of Obelisk is finally live: https://obelisk.tech/

Tomorrow they will release the rest of the info.

Pre-orders start in 6 days

EDIT --> BTW, this is the explanation of why they are releasing an ASIC: https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51 It is a question of protecting the network from attacks. GPU mining can be dangerous for small coins in that sense

They can fuck themself, their shitcoin storage nobody will ever use, and their fuckin miner.

Greedy useless devs.

A very well-funded and explained opinion, of course. The crypto-world needs more people like you  ::)

You wrong about that, market is not how used to be, asics meant game over, nowadays asics mean will it end?. LTC horders crashed it because most of them felt it was game over, this time is different. However this asic sia is bad cause gpu mining is the most secure way to secure the network but i guess they will see that as the time goes but i guess they know it, also the sia devs want to cash on the asics, so meaning part of the asic mining will go to them. The problem will be when they cant control the sia asics anymore.

No it is not for small coins. Sia mining network is equivalent to 1/8th of the total GPUs mining ETH.

That means that if any of the 3 biggest ETH mining pools turns to mine SIA, they can instantly do a 51% attack.

There are several other reasons to explain why GPUs are bad for the security of small coins. Check the post I mentioned of the dev team: https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51

Thank you so much for youe insight, QuintLeo. Much appreciated...BUT the optimist in me has to disagree ob a few points...

1) With Dash and Litecoin, they more than paid out in the long run, no? Also, I was under the impression that if you're mining a crypto, you kind of WANT it to tank in price so the dificulty goes down and you can stack more of it... then just as your hardware has run its course, you'd want that coin to take off. Seems like (unless you're planning on reinvesting your mined crypto in the short term), Litecoin's post ASIC trajectory is ideal.

2) DogeCoin may have a low price per coin, but still has a pretty large market cap (20th largest, I think). Also Doge actually gets used for SOME goods and services, which is rare for an altcoin. You could buy mining contracts with Genesis using Doge.

The one thing Sia has going against it is that it already has a pretty large market cap. it's valued much higher than any other data storage crypto coin (burst, storj etc)... BUT it's valued much lower than dropbox...

You know that with asics the chances are much higher right? few people can totally obliterated the network and so on, Its very unlike any of the 3 biggest pools will get a 51% stake as for asics yes, they can do that with few resources. GPU mining is the most secure cause anybody owns a gpu and can mine and secure the network, now for asics only selected few and if they group each other then bye bye.

If asics come to SIAcoin then will it end? My guess is in the long term yes, see how sha256 coins are done for? nobody invest on them, there is no way to control the asics.

Oh boy... ohhh boy..Thanks for the info. Can't wait to find out Price, lead time, hash rate so they can shut up and take my money.

I was about to purchase another L3+, but now I'm thinking of pre-orderibg this instead for the novelty, diversification... not to mention FOMO appeasement...

Check the thread, seriously, it may give you a different perspective. What is good for a big coin like ETH may not be good for small coins. If they fall in small hands you are right. But currently, most of GPU mining is of big centralized farms too.

Also, there is another factor: the value of the ASIC depends on the value of the coin. With GPUs, I do a 51% attack on ETH, I will make the price of ETH to dump, but I can still resell my GPUs to gamers or computation centers. With ASICs, if I do a 51% attack... I will have tons of useless and worthless hardware around in the aftermath :-P

28NM is also a matured process making production easier than 16/14nm, possibly lowering costs. Unless there's a serious competitor that comes out for this ASIC, it will do fine. Remember Bitmain started at around .78W/GH at 28nm with the S3 and dropped to .25W/GH at 28nm with the S7.

If the price point and power requirements are right for me as I said previously, I believe in the SIA architecture and will likely be buying one as soon as pre order goes live.

I hope it's cheap :D

That is a very good excuse for the sia asics. The 51% attack is not only to kill the coin, is also to pump and manipulate its value and in turn make it a mafia coin. If you people are trying to find an excuse to implement and make the people, miners, investors to accept it, you people need to try it harder cause as i have a phd in computer science, you trolls will never convince me because there is nothing good about asics in any way concerning crypto. I'm an anti-asic person, things should never be controlled by few and yet that is how many asic coins are and in their long term they are bound to die. The same thing can be said about LTC, if it was not for asics then ltc value would be around $500 now or probably more.

Keep calm buddy, I am not part of the team or are related anyhow to it. Nice you have a PhD in computer science. Mine is in Molecular Biology, and we are just two users having a calmed discussion about ASICs. I am also a an anti-ASIC but for the simple reason it is the start of a technology race that ends up wasting thousands of MegaWatts. And be sure by any means I will buy one for that reason.

What I am discussing is just that from the perspective of securing a blockchain, using a dedicated hardware instead general computers can have advantages. There are pros, there are cons, and it is nice to discuss about them.

Best wishes ;-)


EDIT --> No problem at all, Metroid ;-)

Sadly is the "thousands of MegaWatts" that keeps the price as it is, electricity is expensive, concerning "securing a blockchain", I believe is in the power of millions of peers and not in hundreds of them, but that is my opinion on the matter. Good discussion with you and by the way I apologize if I disrespected you in any way  :)

Best wishes ;-)

It's nice to be nice. Happy to see the power of forums to resolve conflicts...

Not to rehash the whole affair, but it seems that this thread is not alone in voicing an anti-ASIC backlash. The backlash was such that David Vorick (from Sia Coin) wrote this blog post on the subject.

Enjoy

https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51

Well looks like the Asic is going to be $2499.

Not cheap by any means but not too expensive either.

Supposedly they going to NOT accept SIA as a payment option but will accept BTC.

https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6j1gyg/obelisks_sia_asics_full_details/

Asics will save against %51 attack.  because they will keep %51 of miners themself and sell the %49. In return sia coin will be controlled by a single entity,  which is their goal. Want proof.? Look at the bitcoin  segwit discussions and how bitmain behaves.

 1) Sometimes. A LOT of folks lost money on the Gridseed "blade" miners on Litecoin as they were priced too high in the first couple pricing incriments, and litecoin profitability was dropping too fast.
 Folks that went with the later 28nm gear though probably mostly HAVE made their money back, if they kept them running long enough.
 
 Crypto that tanks is a BAD thing in general, as you've already spent a lot of time mining it at the higher diff and then LOSE a lot of your profits. The best option for a miner is a slow but steady price RISE - like Bitcoin did for a while after it hit the low point a year and a half or so ago.
 Second best option is a steady price - like Litecoin for *most* of the last 2 years.
 Basic idea is that you're reinvesting your earnings into MORE hardware to earn MORE money - and you're not going to be able to do much of that if the coin is tanking.
 If you're holding onto the coin, that's INVESTING more than mining and INVESTORS do like to see large price swings.

 2) DOGE has benefited from the last 3 months of "all altcoins get money tossed at them due to the instability of Bitcoin" - there have been NO changes to it's fundimentals and once the current bubble pops for most altcoins I anticipate it crashing hard then slowly fading down into the single-digit or VERY low double-digit Satoshi range again.

So the big question.

Who is ordering?

Not me. July 2018 estimated delivery is a big bummer  :-\

Exactly . i was thinking to buy 1 , but after knowing 2018  . i will not join that

This is my thought as well, if I could pay for it in SIA coin today that I previously mined, I wouldn't feel the hit if it didn't produce.

Since they want to be paid in BTC today with the promise of pay back 1 year from now with now earning or interest gained on the $2500 payout from today is a huge gamble.

I think there is less of a gamble on return if you were to buy $2500 of SIA today and wait a year, it could be argued which would make more money by the time the Asic launches.

I'm a believer in what SIA does but there is not enough incentive to "pre-order" this thing.  I could just GPU mine what I can for 12 months and plan on stopping with the Asic hits and see what happens.

I'm still tossing it around in my head right now but the fact I can't pay in SIA coin today is a huge impact to whether or not I will purchase. I already dumped a ton on the Minebox earlier this year and that was only a ~4 month estimated wait.... and I still don't even have that yet or an ETA when it will really ship.

You're making a LOT of sense, Eyedol-X and company. I wish you weren't, but you are.

BUT alas, I AM going to put in an order come Wednesday, good points notwithstanding. Here's MY thinking, and please feel free to explain how foolish and misguided my thinking is...

1) Both the lead time and hash rate could be consservative estimates. Asic manufacturers got fileted when their release dates were postponed. I think Obelisk learned their lesson from their mistakes and out of fear of people like us, gave themselves some cushion. According to their post, it COULD arrive months sooner. For the same reason, it could be more powerful than 100 Gh/s... although it doesn't really matter exactly HOW powerful the ASICS are. So long as they are the only ASICs on the blockchain, and no GPUs can effectively mine SIA, what really matters is how many ASICS get produced and how long before additional Sia ASICS get are built and shipped.

2) i believe in Sia in the long run. If it manages to shoot up in price after the asics are shipped, then (unlike any other coin) the block rewards would not decrease because all of the asics would already be mining it. In effect, anybody who puchases these first batch of asics would have a monopoly to mine SiaCoin no MATTER how much it shoots up in price.

3) Umbrellas don't make it rain, but every other time an ASIC has been introduced to a coin, it has more than 10Xd afterwards. Any and all profitability psuedo-predictions should consider this potential price increase. Asics do not CAUSE price increases in and of themselves, but I do think they are inddicative of stable infrasture / network and a coin with a future.

4) Even if I DON'T want to mine Sia a year from now, I GOT to think there will be a market for this. Top of the line ASICS are rare, especially when the only people who will own them are people who were willing to buy them with a 12 month lead time. baikal cubes are going for thousands pf dollars. Baikal sold them for 780. The novelty, scarcity and demand for alt coin ASICS may make this a resale play.

What do you guys think? Am I way off on this?

Good news.First deliver in 2018 if it is true.Otherway can be fake.

If no fake then probably a sort of kickstarter to get monet and start project.

 That is flat out NOT TRUE.

 Litecoin was DROPPING and continued to drop when ASIC were first introduced for it in 2014.

 DASH (X11) was flat and stayed flat for almost a year after the first ASIC was introduced for it last year.

 Bitcoin might have gone up but it was ALREADY climbing by the time the first ASIC showed up for it.

 What ASIC is indicative of is that someone believes there will be enough demand for an ASIC to make it profitable enough to make one - yet quite a few ASIC makers have ended up going bankrupt (KNC and Butterfly Labs are probably the best-known examples of ASIC miner makers that actually delivered product ending up bankrupt, but it's fairly long list that includes the majority of Bitcoin ASIC makers that ever managed to deliver product).

 In fairness, MOST of the ones that went bankrupt did so as the result of overoptimistic promises on "delivery timeframe", though in KNC's case it was *also* at least in part how unreliable their miners proved to be overall due to bad design decisions and poor chip design work.

I probably should have explained my point a little better. Sometimes I post faster than I think. If I didn't, I'd never post anything :-\

1) What I was trying to say was that had you mined with your first generation asics (in btc, ltc or dash), and stacked all of your mined coins, you would have cleared a large progit, regardless of any initial dip in the price of the coin. I believe Litecoin was in the 3 dollar range (maybe lower). I have no idea what Dash was at, but again much lower than today's prices.

2) I believe ASIC MAY BE indicative of a coin's legitimacy. Yes, it does mean that "someone believes there will be enough demand for an ASIC to make it profitable enough to make one", but WHY is there that demand? That demand MAY exist in part for the same reasons that wil drive demand of the coin itself.

3) As for the early bitcoin hardware companies that failed to produce reliable ASICs, or failed to deliver orders on time, and have since bitten the dust... That is ALWAYS a risk, especially with smaller companies with no track record. The people at Obelisk could definitely disappoint... 

Either way, I'll report back... and I'll be sure to leave room for humble pie  >:(

Here is where I caution your plans -- BTC was the first and no one thought it would take off, sure if you purchased an original antminer back in the day, you could be a millionaire right now but look at how many SIA coins are out there.

I will be surprised if 1 SIA = 1 USD some day, I see it being worth less than 1 USD for quite some time to come, even if SIA takes off like I think it will, the exchange rates will not likely jump significantly for the coins for many years.

However that being said if SIA were to get to say $10 some day, those of us bag holding would be millionaires but that would also mean that the >27.2 Billion SIA coin in the world today would be worth 272 Billion USD making the market cap for SIA 6.5 times the cap of BTC today which is a mere 41 Billion USD...

See what I'm saying? The reality of you becoming mega rich from this Asic is slim to none.

Can you make some profits from it? Yes.

Will it make you millionaire wealthy like BTC did for many? Not likely.

Will people still buy it? You can bet on it.

My Advice if you want to gamble $2500 on SIA is to just go out and buy $2500 in SIA right now. You'll probably make more money in 1 year than you would waiting on the Obelisk.

 1. Again, that's "investment" not "mining".
 Litecoin at it's low right before the halfing was around $2 for a while - I forget offhand if it dipped under $2 but I think it did at least once.

 2. That's a reasonable point.

 3. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

since the Obelisk goes on sale tomorrow, I thought I would talk thru my thought process a little before purchasing one.

Asics are in high demand, especially alt-coin asics. Unlike the bitcoin mining landscape that has seen the introduction of big money players, PetaFlop Bitfury Blockboxes and the like... I think alt coin asics offer an opportunity for lowly individual crypto prospectors to stay competeitive.

Right now there is high demand for the L3+s (bitmain keeps selling out and upping their price) and baikal cubes. I don't think there's enough supply to meet the demand. I don't think this situation is likely to change anytime soon. There are only a few companies (as of now) successfully producing mining hardware.

As more people come into the mining hardware alt coin sector, searching for profitable ASICs, I think it'll only be a matter of time before people stumble upon this Sia Coin ASIC. Then there would be a large demand for them, even if the price of Sia stays flat or decreases.

Obelisk is creating these ASICS in large part bc they are SiaCoin founders / holders. In other words, they're believers. That tells me that it is UNLIKELY a competing company will come out with a competing product anytime soon. Maybe Obelisk will make a 2nd batch, but if they don't, or if that 2nd batch takes a while, or if I am able to preorder from the 2nd batch with Sia mined from the first one... then in effect the owners of these ASICs will have a monopoly on mining this coin... could also dominate any other crypto using the same algo (either now or in the future). IF Sia does explode in price, nobody else will be able to mine it. It'll b strong enough to blow away the GPUs currently dual mining it. Unlike Dash and Litecoin, I don't believe you'll see large computer companies destroying this batch with a better model.

From what I can gather from this thread (and others), many crypto enthusiasts are unwilling to take the risk or wait that long for delivery, which would make SIA mining rarefied are.

One final point: some posters have claimed that you would be better off buying and holding $2,500 in Siacoin, but I don't think that's accurate. Buying a finite amount provides a finite return. Yes, I think buying and holding would pay out, but with a low energy draw (they claim 500 watt), I think it is possible for this asic to mine indefinitely.

I've done a ton of reading over on the SIA Reddit in regards to what's happening with SIA and how the Obelisk is being developed.

With the logic I've already outlined, it still seems to me that I could make more in the short term with simply just buying $2500 in SIA and then dumping it after the price increases in a few months but I realized a few things in my reading:

• I believe SIA is more than a pump and dump coin
• SIA devs, the parent company, and the company engineering the Asic are in the USA

When I think about how I could spend $2500 in BTC today most of those ways are not spending that BTC with a vendor or developer that is based in the USA. Since I live in the USA and I want to see companies like SIA succeed in the USA, it is for that reason alone that I've decided to buy 1 Obelisk for myself. As I already have a Minebox coming and the fact that the Obelisk will help secure the SIA network which in turn gives the architecture of SIA a better chance of being more than just a "pump and dump coin" I simply need to support this venture as well as in the end it, I believe, it will all pay off.

So in summary, in a few hours I'm going to pre-order my Obelisk.

Eyedol-X is a believer!?!?!!! As I live and breath... you saw it here, folks. The full on conversion of Eyedol-X...

I'm happy to say I pre-ordered mine this afternoon. While it's true I could have converted everything over to eth, waited a day, then placed my order a day later, and made a nice profit before buying the same machine... I gotta remind myself not to think that way

Btw any ideas on how to avoid (or benefit from) price fluctuations while coordinating buys like this? I got burned one time when the price of bitcoin keptdropping as I was buying it. On this purchase, I tried to diversify mainly into dash, ltc and then trade into btc at favorable rates. I figured the fiat i was waiting on was a sort of hedge in case btc price went down. In heignsight, since this asic price was denominated in USD, I should have picked up some tether...

Any thoughts? Or maybe this should be it's own thread...

The important thing is that Eyedol is a believer...

I dual mine with a few RXs and 2 1070s, and at this rade I get like 20000+ sia monthly, without sacrificing the hash rate for ETH basically
(except those 2 1070s, which paid themselves out a long time ago).

So, I dont know, by the time ASIC comes out, I'll make 250 000 sia.
Just sayin'.

Haven't decided yet on the ASIC to be honest.

Congrats, You just evaporated $2500. As I said, all numbers/dates were too unrealistic round. Just hope I'm wrong...

have they even shipped this yet?

[url]> https://minebox.io/preorder

there 8tb and 16tb minerbox thingy says june 2017? and still has 38 left?

just wondering how this plays into this?

anyone have a minerbox beast or one ordered etc and want to chime in

Kind of in the same boat.

At 100GH/s I think the returns / months in SIA are like 300'000 SIA or 4500$ at the current rate, so it would literally pay itself off in 2 weeks.

But if you dump everything you mine per day or month with an Obelisk (which is quite a lot of coins), I have a hard time believing this won't sink the price of SIA. I haven't checked on the exchanges what the demand of SIA looks like. But basically 10 Obelisk will mine 3'000'000 coins a month. And I'm pretty sure there will be more than 10 on the network...

I understand the logic behind the ASIC for SIA but I'm unsure if I should keep my coins or dump them...

Saw this, some thoughts:

Looks sweet, but we have seen this b4 (new algo asic's) - never ends well for a multitude of reasons
Still thought maybe i would buy one, then saw ship date. oh, fuk that, a year till even SCHEDULED to ship? NO WAY
100gh/s?  will not only be MEH for sia in 12 months, but who knows where the price will be

ill take 1BTC instead and lock it in my trezor.  in 12 months lets see who has more value :D

+0.5 points for a prayer someone makes new coins with Sia's algo, it might ROI then in less than 10+months.

not me it's pointless to have a asic, they run out of profit very fast and become useless, stick with gpu for the best earning, the last good asic for me was baikal but that one had many algo, this only one, also sia is not that profitable, this asic will only kill the remaining profit

I pre-ordered my Minebox 16TB the day it became available. The last update I got was about 30 days ago with no specific ETA. I suspect there have been some delays to its release since SIA has made some updates to their network during the same time. In addition to this I know Minebox has been closely partnering with HP Enterprise and it was recently shown off in their booth at an event in Vegas.

As I said previously, I believe the SIA architecture is more than a pump and dump coin and while I believe there is more risk than there is potential rewards in the short term of buying this Obelisk Asic, I believe it will pay off in the long run (assuming it becomes a reality). My Minebox only has successful value if SIA works out and is adopted by the masses and the Obelisk is a step towards helping that IMO.

In short, From what I read over on reddit, its not going to be an issue for SIA to get enough money to R&D the Obelisk Asic as they had private offers to 100% fund the venture. They indicated they had multiple offers and that they want to restrict any one private investor from buying no more than 20% of the hashrate while simultaneously making the Pre-order which could have been private, a public event.

Based upon what I have read these Asics will be a reality at some point and the SIA Devs are trying to make sure that the Asic ends up, at least in some capacity, in the hands of smaller miners rather than having large private mines controlling a significant amount of hashrate along with a single large private company controlling the Asic development as we can see with Bitmain and BTC.

This is a video about Blockchain and HP Enterprise, the Minebox partnership is mentioned about 21m21s in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hEiHR-K_KY

My closing thoughts around my decision to buy the Obelisk: I missed the boat on BTC when I decided not to build a GPU miner and invest a few thousand into it back in 2009/2010... I think SIA could be bigger and I'm not going to make the same mistake twice.

Burst - if you have filled HDD with some data, it doesn't always mean it's a data storage crypto coin.

So remember these increase the network difficulty tremendously... so initially Obelisk had put out estimated earnings at about 60,000 Sia a month.  I don't know if they removed it for legal reasons or just because they didn't want to be held to that but I think it is a pretty reasonable suggestion.  It really depends on how many of these they sell because, presumably, the total block reward divided by how many asics they sell will be the earnings since I can't imagine anyone GPU-mining Sia after these come out (except the most ardent Sia fanboys that didn't have $2500 to shell out).

Got my confirmation e-mail that confirms my pre-order so I'm now in line waiting on one of these.

I know as of yesterday afternoon they had already received 430 pre orders of Batch 1

They have added some additional "pre-order" perks (maybe they were listening to my post from days ago? :D one can hope...)

So how much SIA can this asic miner mine in a day if anyone can speculate?
I just check SIA price is less  than $0.05, someone with $1K can definitely buy a ton of it to hold for its pump. If you hold today, you wouldn't have to mine and spend electricity bill for it.

Not a slam...just an observation


there is no way the devs can lose on this ASIC development

1) if it all goes according to plan and they make/sell units...they know their profits

2) if the project fails and BTC goes by next July to 5k or 7.5k etc ..they will refund us in USD.

My only issue is ..they COULD discover sometime in March 2018 say that they could make more $$$ if our BTC tripled
and they refunded us USD ..thus why bother with the miner :)

just a thought

to make you go hmmmmmmmmmm

 
edit: by the by did anyone get more than one? I jumped in with ONE because a buddy jumped in with FIVE and I did not want
to be left out. (yeah the old double dare)

others? curious?

I absolutely agree here that there is no way for them to lose because any way you slice it they win

Asic profits = Win for Devs
SIA market cap increases = Win for Devs
SIA architecture market share increases = Win for Devs

If the asic project fails and you get a refund in USD and that would really suck if that happens. My hope is that it doesn't happen. From everything I've pieced together from the myriad of information on Reddit, I don't see this venture failing with the number of investors out there wanting it to succeed privately.

My issue is that you could potentially make more money investing in SIA today for $2500 and then dumping it after the pump from the asics happens. This issue is what initially prevented me from considering what Asic brings to the table. After thinking about it long term and what I think the SIA architecture can do if I simply bag hold today and not look at the short term profit/loss of the venture, it is my belief it will pay off tomorrow(someday).

I just got 1 for now, I figure I'll set my Minebox and my Obelisk next to each other once I have both.

Yeah, I just got one but I think I will also get one from the second batch with my handy $250 coupon that is coming with the first one.  That should at least keep my Sia earnings consistent for a long while.

They are converting the BTC payments to USD immediately after payment. They will see no benefit from BTC price rising

As of 1 hour ago they are up to 500 units sold with a goal of selling 2000 units during the pre-order. They are hand verifying every pre order.

They have indicated if they do not reach 2000 units sold in 7 days of pre-order that they will likely offer another pre-order option later but without the perks offered in the initial pre-order.

1500 to go!

Bought one too, i think it was a great investment. Will be able to say so after start of 2018  ;)


Greets Hank

That is absolutely true. One COULD buy and hold any amount of SIA to benefit from any future price increase... but that is somewhat limiting. If you invest $1,000 in SIAcoin now, you would pick up about 69,000 siacoins... if it doubles in price, youd have $2000... but that's it. The Obelisk SC1 will allow you to mine SIAcoin indefinitely. The only thing that would interfere with that ability is if the price of SIA drops so much that it cost more in electricity than you can make in mining SIA, or if some other company produced some bigger / better ASIC that leaves the SC1 in the dust.

I don't think the latter is likely to happen. The people making this ASIC are FROM SiaCoin. Their reason for making it has a lot to do with their belief in SiaCoin's future and their desire to secure that future. Other larger ASIC producers (bitmain, baikal) are unlikely to follow suit, at least in the short term.

Price is already crashing, soon only asics will be mining siacoin, bad move from the devs.

Well, the ASICs will not be able to mine Sia until they arrive 9-12 months from now. After that it IS likely that ONLY asics will (be able to) mine SIA... but that's kind of the point. I think, until that happens, it'll make sense to GPU mine Sia... even if it drops in price... that may make it MORE desirable to mine as you could pick up more of them as other GPUs switch to other cryptos.

You have a point.

Their ASIC is expensive, it looks like a centralization club. If they had multiple models including some that weren't worth 2.5k USD than the sales would be more distributed

Too expensive, remember they made projections, if it was right now then with the equipment, it could actually mine around 230k siacoins per month, as soon as thousands of asic copies are put into the network then we will really see if those numbers added up, their projections are based on around 60k per month which is almost 4 times less than now, and that figure adds to 9 months of an increasing hashrate, thing is, with that amount of money you can get 100% of the money invested around 9 months or so as things stay like this, aside from this is hard to predict anything.

As any preorder, as long as you pay 10% of the value then 90% when they deliver then is fine. That will be a minimal loss if they dont deliver, question is, do they have all the money to pay upfront to the production factory to start producing them? Most asic producers dont, so that is why they are most scams but then again why would they pay all upfront and then sell and people get their roi in a month or so. My guess is they could base the value of that equipment based on returns. So right now $2500 is very expensive, if they could deliver right now at $6000 then it would not, see where i'm going. I would never preorder it. The asic market is a scam.

What do you think about the impact of such ASICs on the SIA price ?
UP ? Down ?
The difficulty will rise a lot, that's certain, but the price ?

Like all asic coins, siacoin's value will stagnate after asic miners hit, it will not increase cause people will sell as they go hoping to get the value they paid out of it. After they get the value they will still keep selling it to get the money and invest on other coin and you may ask why they will sell? why not hold? the same thing happened to litecoin, see where it went? siacoin devs will have no control of asics after a later date, chinese will mimic improve the damn thing and then will be gameover. Nobody will invest on it cause there will be no control, just like bitcoin, litecoin or any other asic coin. I mean nobody understand why the chinese could sell thousands of bitcoins at 200 usd when europeans and other asic producers around the globe could not sell a bitcoin for $400, see where i'm going, how the chinese could and the rest of world could not? chinese are the greatest mimic techs of the world and once you give them a way to cheat the system like the siacoin devs are doing then its a gameover. The siacoin devs are dumb or perhaps they know where this is going and they want to make a one hit and run for life.

Thank you for the reply.. but difficult to understand, no ?

It becomes easier to, as you go. Just be wise and don't fall for these scams.

Well titans do scrypt pow in Nov 2014...first real killer scrypt asics in massive amounts for scrypt pow coins in the day

they then came out a month  or so later with scrypt-n for scrypt-n pow coins (which as far as I'm aware are virtually non-existant now)

they blew up scrypt-n in one week and destroyed the protocol..and thus all the coins of that protocol

not saying it will happen..or even it could happen...but too much piled on too fast ...well just an example

(to scare everyone..bruahahahaha) (ahem...sorry) :)



edit: I have one of these Obelisk SC1 miners coming..I may get two BUT I also from mining need to set aside the rest of the year according to my CPA Lady
45% of income made for the nice IRS man (self-employment tax/IRS/state etc) to be safe.

Thus one of these is 5 days of mining now for me..thus I can afford to take a "flyer" on these units...if they never come to pass and IF
the folk are legit I'll get a refund in 2018

So in reality, I'm risking 55% of the amount of every one of these I may get (comparatively speaking off my taxes I will pay on income this year)

thus I can afford to be somewhat brave (or stupid/silly/smart..... pick a word)

So right now I can pay the IRS 27k on income this year (if I buy no more equip) or get around 60k of equip

so anyway, place your bet and take your chances...but me...some of this will be gone anyway...so taking a flyer on this :)

( the last flyer I took was on KNC 500mh Jupiter BTC miner on Oct 18th 2013 for $7K..that worked out) :)

Do your research, place your bet..and pray to the ASIC gods :) or hell at my odds just flip a coin.

They are planning on releasing a GPU Style Sia Mining Asic for around $1000 USD in the future but due to fixed costs of Asic chip manufacturing they had to start with something bigger to get the initial R&D done.

as an aside....if you built say a 5 card rig (your specs) what supposedly NOW could you get out of it with siacoin? just wondering maybe that is an angle

as to the storage aspect

do you have to buy a miner box to sell space on their network or can you build your own for that aspect of siacoin

the site says they still have some for sale but kinda clueless on how that part of all this works yet

brad

If you go with a 1070 Rig using Claymore, you can crank the ETH intensity down to about 26MH and Get about 550MH SIA if you crank up the -dcri intensity

So a 7 GPU Rig could do 182MH ETH while at the same time do 3850MH (3.8GH) SIA

The Obelisk is supposed to do 100GH out of the box and use about 500w to do it.

I'm sure you could squeeze more out of the 1070s but it's never going to compare hashrate v. power.

I don't have the Minebox yet but I have pre-ordered the 16TB version and will be updating it to 32TB once I receive it.

asic coin are always bad when an asic hit a coin, that coin value can't increase anymore or just will be pumped but then dumped again look at litecoin, after the new l3 the price remained there, after the first pump because of segwit

How to explain bitcoin then and its value going up despite chiense asic farmers??

https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/296709252351926273 ~around this date, 30 Jan 2013, people were getting their first asic miners, and the price in a month went from $18 to $34... and continued to rise until the crash.

Or even with Litecoin, there may have been some "pump and dump" at the time... there may STILL be people mining and dumping today, but the point is that OVER TIME, the people who just mined and stacked Litecoin made out, and those who traded their Litecoin sacrificed long term appreciation for short term gains.

The Litecoin network was able to withstand whatever short term trades happened at the time. I'm not saying SiaCoin will necessarily follow this same pattern, but regardless I don't think that a few (or a lot) of sia asic operators trading out of Sia will destroy the SiaCoin, especially over the long term...

Until now they have only 500 order. And number didnt change since yesterday. Arent they updating or noone is buying?

I believe their target was 2,000 units. They seem to have made accommodations for a second batch order, while still rewarding first batch buyers. 1st batch participants get at least 6 weeks of mining without 2nd batch asics on the blockchain... as well as a $250 coupon for future Obelisk products.

But consider what just happened. Obelisk raised 1.25 Million dollars in a short amount of time with no track record, no prototype, a one year lead time, and speculative specifications.

I'm all about being skeptical, I am... but maybe we give Obelisk a piece of that Kit Kat Bar...

Looks like current pre-orders is 630 as of today.

1370 to go

I might even give them a butterfinger  8)

I feel like that number should be higher.

It probably is, the SIA Dev team has indicated they are manually approving all orders and one of their Devs is doing double duty on updating the Obelisk site.

I saw they are now accepting wire transfers as payment when they stated before they couldn't do it I believe. Not sure if panic mode or what.

I suspect no one thought they would pull this off initially so no one would get on board.... but when you have over 1 million USD in pre orders already, maybe some merchant processing company decided to jump on board.

I can see the sale number being higher because of manual approval and the bitcoin to USD conversion process... However, I don't think it's THAT much higher. I'm thinking the manual approval and conversion lag could account for an additional 50-200 units, but that's not really based on any "actual" information.

The questions I have are:
 1) How many units will be sold by the end of this round? - My guess is under 1000
 2) How many units will be sold in their second batch? - My guess is their second batch sale will be comparable to their first batch. Tho they'll receive their ASICs at least 6 weeks after first batch customers, 2nd batch customers won't have to wait as long. I imagine the price will be somewhat similar to $2,500... so maybe they'll sell more in a 2nd batch bc of the reduced lead time (and lack of holiday).
3) What is the minimum amount of units they need to sell to insure they follow through with the orders? - 1,200-3000?

TLDR - this first batch order seems like it'll settle around 1000 units sold. The seccond batch should do something similar. That'll bring their total sales for batches 1 and 2 to around 1500-3500 units... Again, this is JUST speculation. But the point is that the Obelisk SC1 becomes a better investment the less people buy them, provided enough are ordered to achieve the required minimum. The fewer units sold, the less mining competition among SC1 owners, the better the investment...

They are based in the USA....with 4th of July Tuesday tomorrow, they LIKELY have not looked at the order book since say last THURSDAY and split for the weekend.

Anyway, my view on the count sitting at 630 since last Thursday or so :)

Anyone see this Bloomberg piece about Sia?


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-15/digital-coins-are-so-hot-they-re-selling-them-like-an-ipo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Yeah, read this piece. Sia is one of the few coins with an actual use out there -- once other developers start building friendly applications on top of it, we will start to see its potential.

Big news on the obelisk front. They reached 1,030 unit sales, qhich is impressive, but way below their original 10,000 unit goal.

They have now extended their first batch sale a week longer, with a max cap of 4,000 units. I believe their minimum for moving forward is 2,000 units. If they fall below that, they will (supposedly) be issuing refunds according to one of their developers...

If i were them, and I got CLOSE to 2,000 sales, i feel like I would figure SOMETHING out... instead of refunding MILLIONS of dollars. I just... i just couldn't imagine.

But the interesting thing is that if they sell 2000 units, instead of their original 10,000, then (I BELIEVE) these Obelisks would be 5 times more profitable than originally projected... at least before a second batch comes online. If I'm way off on this, please feel free to set me straight.

Yadda yadda blah blah blah, long story short, I'm considering buying another this week. I know antminer just listed their L3+ september batch, but I feel like these might have more upside potential...What do you guys think?

As "more profitable" as more "vapourizing" ASIC is.  ::)

You are correct that the original projections about return rate and SC monthly production was based on the estimated 10k ASICS produced.  With the new cap being at 4k, this means the initial monthly SC production is 2.5 times more. 

There is a bunch of assumptions in these numbers but with 2.5 times less ASICs, the difficulty will not be as high so each miner will produce more coin, etc.

Plus the original number didn't have a cap (it was only a 10k estimate).  If they had somehow sold twice as many, it would have been half as profitable.  As someone who purchased a couple, I am really happy with the 4k cap as it makes my purchase twice as profitable.  ;D

Do you happen to know if they are extending their 1st batch sale indefinitely? In other words, are they just extending their first batch sale another week (with a 4k maximum), or is this first batch sale continuing indefinitely, until they've reached 4,000 unit sales?

They're Twitter feed was a little unclear...

Not quite 2.5 * more monthly production - only in a world where GPU's aren't mining Siacoin.
The current network hashrate is 386Th/s. This is equal to 3860 Obelisks.

Say that the network hashrate is 500Th/s (5,000 Obelisks) by the time they are released (not an outrageous estimate)
The original estimate of 10,000 Obelisks = 15,000 total Obelisks of which the ASICs get (2/3)/10,000 rewards = 0.000066% of total reward.
4k cap = 9,000 total Obelisks of which the ASIC's get (4/9)/4,000 rewards = 0.000111% of total reward.
4k cap vs 10k cap = 68% more rewards.

However... if the dualminers stop and the Siacoin network hashrate drops to 200Th/s it becomes;
The original estimate of 10,000 Obelisks = 12,000 total Obelisks of which the ASICs get (5/6)/10,000 rewards = 0.000083% of total reward.
4k cap = 6,000 total Obelisks of which the ASIC's get (2/3)/4,000 rewards = 0.000166% of total reward.
4k cap vs 10k cap = 100% more rewards.

If they sell 2k... (22.5m daily rewards as of April 2018)

Agreed.  My quick numbers didn't take the GPU miners into account.  However I believe that the GPUs will quickly move to other more profitable coins once the ASICs come into play.  It won't take many ASICs to start influencing the return from GPUS (making them not competitive) and they can easily move to other coins.  This will make the numbers more closely model just a ASIC only mining environment.

Look at the current price, see, is going to hell, know why? because asics are coming, stupid devs. Siacoin will likely never be pumped again, people know this is not a good investment anymore. They are getting out.

Have you looked at coin prices in the last 24 hours? They are almost all red...

For those who purchased Obelisks, we received this update in email:

---

Presale Updates
Thank you so much for being one of the first to preorder the Obelisk SC1 miner. We received over 1,000 preorders, which has provided us with enough funding to pay for the bulk of the chip design costs. We are so grateful for your trust, and we will work tirelessly to ship your order by June 2018.
 
The 1,000 preorders give us enough funding for the chip design costs, but not enough funding to produce the chips and manufacture completed units. For that, we need to sell a minimum of 2,000 units – and that minimum gives us absolutely no breathing room.
 
We have therefore decided to extend the presale with a cap of 4,000 units. The presale will officially end when we receive payment for the 4,000th unit. We are confident that, by introducing a cap, we will pass the 2,000-unit minimum and gain some breathing room for unexpected obstacles or delays.
 
This extension of the sale does not affect the timeline. We still plan to ship by June 2018 at the latest, and the chip design project is running on schedule. We are still including with each unit a $250 coupon for future batches and a mining exclusivity period of 6 weeks.
 
Additionally, the cap at 4,000 units means that the expected per-unit mining reward during the 6-week exclusivity period will be about 200,000 SC.
 
We hope you understand our decision, and we look forward to hearing your questions and concerns. We recognize that, by ordering in the first week, you deserve some special treatment and recognition. We’ll be sending out exclusive Sia+Obelisk branded gear in the coming weeks. We'll also be increasing your per-unit coupons to $400.
 
As always, you can email hello@obelisk.tech and we will get back to you as soon as possible.
 
Best,
 
- Team Obelisk

I made too much this year on crypto. In the 45% or better tax bracket. (w/state) ..thus it is pick up this or bitmain asic products
or flush it to the IRS.....its like Pacman at my heels....the more LTC price goes up ..the more I have to scamble...

AS to those w/o such an angle..you are braver then myself :) Keep this in mind if you see some of us taking a
chance on these guys and going HUH?

sia to the moon!!

"We still plan to ship by June 2018 at the latest" !

So one has to wait a year for this miner possibly ?

Got this same update as well, looking forward to the 2nd phase of the pre-sale passing that 2000 unit mark to lock in the production.

Interested to see what kind of swag they send out.

How long do you guys think it'll take for Obelisk to reach their new 4k unit cap? I definitely want to purchase a second asic, but (as always) there are some other crypto opportunities I might want to invest in first.

June 2018 is the latest the ASICs could arrive, but their development team stated it could be months earlier. Asic production is expensive and complicated. Personally, I think they gave themselves some cushion to avoid another Butterfly Labs fiasco...

But, yeah... it's a long lead time. Probably part of the reason their 1st week presales were a tenth of what they expected. A year is a long time, no doubt... BUT with their batch capped at 4k units, the projected returns forneach unit just more than doubled...

and, as a wise man once said, "the future happens"

I think they (Nebulous Labs) were very surprised by the low volume of actual sales they had.  There are probably a myriad of reasons from focussing on the wrong market (they were marketing to SIA users rather than miners) to the long lead time and the overall current slide in the crypto market.

Personally I invested in SC last year and with the increase (before the current slide) I was able to pull out enough capital to expand my BTC miner pool, my GPU pool and buy Obelisks.  All while still holding about 1/2 my original investment in SC.  I will let the haters hate and take my increased income from my Sia involvement and enjoy. :)

I agree that marketing to miners is key. There is still an opportunity there. Congrats on the wins -- hoping to mine some Sia with you when the first orders arrive!

I preordered in the first week, but plan to pay tomorrow. Do I still honor the BTC quote in the email, or should I recalculate based on the price at the time?

I recommend re-calculating as they said they would refund any difference greater than 5%. Might as well just do the calculation yourself.

yupp, and people who paid for a minebox (their last money grab) months ago are still getting the run around, months behind their last "latest by" delivery and nothing but promises made for their future...

but hey thats how robbing paul to deliver peter's machines works right? :D

and yet people buy....  

crypto is funny ahha

cant wait to revist this next year

I pre-ordered the minebox and I am not getting the run around -- I just got an e-mail from them last week.

Good to hear. I hope minebox is great. Let us know once you get started!

Is minerbox connected with the SIA team? I was under the impression that they are not affiliated

in 12 months there will be tears. whether they will be of joy or sadness will yet to be seen till then tho :D
i also expect another gen b4 this first gen are delivered, hopefully im wrong tho

edit: i wanted to say a it more in this post of how i think its going/gonna go down . then in 12 months i can come back and see hehe

-You don't call something "Sc1" unless you hav already planned a "Sc2" and more
-they didnt have the cash or rep to get a good spot in a foundry to get better chips, so 28nm it is.
-they will sell the 28nm Sc1's to raise money for the Sc2 (prob 16nm) "Sc2's"
-Sc2 will announce in 8 months :D


idk, this just didnt fit me personally, if i paid for a previous product and 2 months after initial "delivery date" still had NOTHING in my hands, i could NEVER personally give the same people more money for another "product"(i use quotations as these things dont actually exist YET), but hey thats just me ;p

Minebox is not connected directly to SIA as far as I know but they do have a partnership with HP Enterprise.

The site seems to show otherwise. That it is a big deal with the partnership with HP.

The other point mentioned by folk, I've heard on these SC ASIC machines being promoted more as SC coin machines, rather the the asic angle for home miners
getting back into crypto ...also has some merit.....imho should be more noise than I've seen on this. With as many folk like me just dying to mine something
other then bitmain machines (ltc or btc) ....

hey ..I"m bent and taking a 'flyer/chance' on these guys....what the heck it is ONLY money right? (we are all in this for the future of money for humanity right?) :)


edit: well things are looking a bit chaotic to say the least.

https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6m872o/utaek42_casually_mentions_that_they_are/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6m872o/utaek42_casually_mentions_that_they_are/)

That doesn't look good... Thinking out loud like this really doesn't inspire much confidence for investors, miners, etc.  Sounds to me like the DEV's need to get some miners up and running before hand and mining a little to help fund their cause before releasing them to the public and make sure they keep some miners running to fund their efforts.  

At least disclose the plan so that people know the specifics.  I am sure that would make a bunch of people mad too, but if the DEV's aren't being funded at this point they need to do something that isn't going to shake peoples confidence and people just go elsewhere.  If they start "forking" around and I know I am not going to spend any more time messing with SC.

This seems to be another scam, well it cant be helped, right now people have much more money than sense, they just want to throw their money somewhere for the sake of throwing it. They want to get scammed!!!

In regards to the reddit post -- He's just "thinking out loud"... While I appreciate the honesty I don't think he realizes how those thoughts could be construed by the public as evidenced by some of the above remarks.

The bottom line regarding that post is they'd be stupid because of the regulatory crap that goes along with such a venture, they'd also put themselves in a situation where cases of fraud could be brought against them. I'm sure if he spoke to a lawyer about this "idea" he would be told not to do it.

IMO the point of his post is they are trying to figure out ways to fund expanded development of SIA and he's considered even that scenario but as he indicated it doesn't make a whole lot of sense because of the risk.

Also I haven't read the entire thread where that quote came from but that quote is probably being taken out of context by someone wanting to get points on Reddit.

Lastly, I believe this isn't the first time the concept of a coin development being funded by coin sales by the devs.

Example:

If their time frame weren't a year out on the Obelisk miner they would have the kind of interest they were hoping for.  It is just way too much lead time to get people willing to throw a lot of money at this.  They would have the interest and the funding for this if the runway were shorter.  People are looking, but with good reason they are holding back.

Yeah...now that they have everyones attention they could re-consider all this miner stuff for now..punt it into 2017 w/ new miner

Well they could refund ...thus refunding would further prove they are legit and help their cause and coin project

refunding ..folks $$$ now for the oblisk and instead get their house in order. Then if they do fund a miner..fund it not as a seacoin pet project
but as a blake2 protocol (I think it is) and seacoin miner....asic miner first on that protocol......a way to move siacoin 2nd

other devs would have options to make blake2 protocol coins (again I think that is the protocol) expand the universe

is seacoins on the blake2 protocol ..are being sold for fund/support the open cloud project on storage...well the other coins would not effect

their efforts that much imho anyway....likely it would expand the interest in their efforts and hardware

but a refund and a miner in the blake2 protocol might be a way to punt and hedge w/o losing their momentum BEFORE they cash out the $$$ for chips etc

and miners

can't always climb the mountain on the first route choice :)

my 2c worth

lol, so much fun, now you trolls probably will all want refund hehe, if you dont play long then bye bye and by the way as siacoin will be asic only which means, investors will probably never pump this ever again, see, in the end siacoin devs wanted to be greedy and they got burnt hehe

Everything in the market is down right now, I'm not investing into SIA because I believe i will see short term gains.

I don't want a refund. I want the pre-order to move forward and hit that 2000 unit mark, looks like they are up to 1240 units.

With the current siacoin price in mind now, its looking an impossible mission, siacoin devs need an assistance from Ethan Hunt and the imf people hehe

I don't really care one way or another for refund...it serves me better to get equip this year and take the IRS equip deduction and take the revenue next year

just saying a reboot on design to allow more alts to EVENTUALLY be made with their miner using this protocol....might be wise

they'd likely get more $$$ from ASIC miner folk ..and likely these other devs making such coin would not effect the attempts

of why siacoin is made and to be used...

just saying..(of course I know zip at one time I drank the BFL Kool-Aid...so just tossing it out there as an option ..ie reboot for a couple months)

brad

I agree here, they are still in design phase, it definitely seems like they can design it to do all Blake Algos + Optimize it for SIA but they are choosing not to.

I'll be interested to see if they decide to re-think that decision.

Anybody care to guess how long it will take for this SC1 batch to sell out? It's been stuck at 1260 / 4000 for a few days now...

With siacoin prices as it is, forever and since this will be an asic coin then rest in peace.

This link is hysterical. The comments section is more interesting and (much) more informed than the article itself. Made me proud of my crypto brethren...


https://themerkle.com/what-is-the-obelisk-sc1-asic-miner/

Exactly!

This is my favorite all-time typo.

Well I took a chance on two of these Obelisk SC-1 beasties....

I looked at another one (maybe..just to look) and a big difference between the ave price on the other two
of I think it was 0.976 btc vs the 1.235 btc (19% increase) that I'd pay today at $2,053 btc.

ugg..that is ugly :(

Brad

I think they're taking usd via bank transfer now, but I guess you're trying to put your crypto to work.

They'll still be for sale after August 1st, when I suspect btc will rebound somewhat once FUD runs out.

So I gather they are taking BOTH now? Wire Xfer and BTC?

But yeah, main reason for me to get the Obelisk SC-1 miners was for equipment write off into next year...too much mining revenue...and as to my mining.....well,  hell even
and idiot like me can do well, if LTC mining goes from $4.15 to $56 bucks per LTC...(now it is $40.10 per LTC as we speak)...thus scrambling for equipment that makes at
least SOME sense ....

Trying to not give ALL my money to the IRS ..so did this as a 'hedge' (in my feeble justifications for all equipment buys) ..but now ...if BTC keeps dumping....well damn...I did not expect to
have to hedge....against BTC dumping......but here we are :(

If it's really then should buy some SIA and hold. Just remember DASH last year, when the x11 ASICs annouced the price skyrocket in 6 month after that

They recently announced in slack that the ASIC will reach a minimum of 250GH/s according to their internal reports.

Wow, that's great news. At first I thought that wouldn't really change the ASIC's profitability because everybody would have the same hashrate, but according to this REDDIT thread, that's not the case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6msupo/obelisk_can_reach_250ghs_now/

ROI per Obelisk won't change if all Obelisks have an higher hashrate. Just saying since some might expect 2.5 times the number of coins..

u/PizzaTucker

•

Jul 12, 2017, 5:04 AM

It might if the ASICs collectively manage to push away more gpus by making mining unprofitable for them.

u/mtlynch

•

Jul 12, 2017, 5:11 AM

I think it actually does. The first 4,000 Obelisks will now have a hash rate of 1 PH/s instead of 400 TH/s.

Total hashrate of the network right now is 353 TH/s. If Obelisks were released today, they'd make up 74% of the total hash rate, whereas at 100 GH/s, they'd only make up 53% of the total hash rate.

The increase in ROI should be even more significant in 8-10 months when the total non-Obelisk hash rate is larger.

Also this statement from a SiaCoin developer caught my eye...

"We are committed to producing and shipping theObelisk units, even if we stop at 1250 sales"

The ironic thing is, that just makes me want to buy more. Obelisk patrons want their SC1 Asics to be powerful and few...

Once the ASICs ship, even only 1200 of them, it will increase the difficulty and be enough to push GPU miners to find a more profitable coin for them.  At that point since the ASICs are homogeneous in terms of hash rate, the won't matter what that rate is (as long as it was high enough to push the GPUs out).  At that point each miner will earn on average 1 / <number of miners> * block reward.  Hash rate is not part of that formula.  Hash rate will cause the difficulty to rise, but nothing else will change.

Later, if there is a generation 2 Obelisk, or someone else enters the Sia ASIC market, it gets interesting as the formula gets complicated and see start to see concerns about hash rate / watt, etc..

Great quote, where did you source that one from?

? they used a HP NAS for the minebox..., but it was MY understanding they have NO official partnership with HP, do you have a source for that? :/

It's like when a coin uses Azure and says they have "partnership with Microsoft Azure" lol

I found it on the top of this Reddit thread... seems to have also been posted on Slack... but i'm kind of allergic to slack.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6msupo/obelisk_can_reach_250ghs_now/

They should have said the miner would be 250000000000000gh/s, I guess it can't be helped they are desperate as siacoin price is crashing and nobody is pre-ordering their scam hehe

Minebox had a booth in a recent HP Enterprise event in Vegas to my understanding, https://www.minebox.io/blog/minebox-hpe-discover-las-vegas/

Out of curiosity, is your scam accusation based on anything concrete, or just speculation? Unlike any other scam asic pre-order, this is coming from the coin's developers. Are you saying that Siacoin in general is a scam?

Also, team Obelisk said that their predictions were all conservative low ball estimates, that they would keep everybody informed to their developments. This is also true of the 12 month lead time.

I am not trying to drink the proverbial kool-aid. I just want to know if you've considered these factors, or were privy to new info before we burn the witch...

Speculative, cause most of scams are like this, they get your money and then they disappear or never deliver. Now if they invest their own money and then produce and then they sell / give you the product then I would not call a scam. I guess you know what I'm trying to say here.

interesting, i didnt see that, thx!
ya they may not have a DIRECT partnership, but it does seem HPE is well aware of the minebox and that "communication with HPE will continue and we are looking forward what the future is going to bring."
so thats something atleast.

UPDATED with the following; 250GH ASIC. 1250 Units. Variable SIACOIN Price;

I was considering investing more in X11 mining before securing some Obelisks, but things have changed over the past few days...

FIVE -- count them -- 5 companies are coming out with X11 asic miners soon.

The ibelink DM11Gs are shipping end of the month. Bitmain is sold a few D3s... Baikal is coming out with their 2GH asic (which has the advantage of being able to mine other similar algos)... Innosilicon SUPPOSEDLY has a 30 GH coming out in October... and Pinidea supposedly has something in the works, but little details are available.

With that, plus the many L3+ batches... these Obelisks are looking better and better. Best bet if you want to avoid the other algo's asic rat race... IMHO anyways...

yeah I was thinking that as well, it seems like an arms race right now for X11 asics, It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top, my guess it will be a 2 horse race at some point.

Surprised Baikal seems to have dropped the ball... basically upgrading /doubling their A900...

If there's a 2 way race, it'll either be between Bitmain and Ibelink, or Bitmain and Innosilicon (provided they don't over promise / under deliver like they did with their old Scrypt Asics).

Either way, with Bitmain's low price, high hash rate and ability to mass produce should still make them competitive IMHO

Yeah with data halls even a bitmain 15gh for 3k with psu/shipping etc ..COULD have a lifespan of only 5 months and never ROI...it is that ugly

remember the KNC Neptunes that were pre-ordered and released like 9 months late while KNC used the pre-order money to fill their data halls first? They

pretty much were doorstops in 4-5 months made 1/4 of their 11k price back


I punted my Neppie pre-order at the time to knc titans ...whew...missed that bullet

Also remember there were scrypt-N coins.....asic resistant..the Titans hit the world and blew the coins up in a week to beyond any worthless alts in $$$ you see today

everyone changed algo.....so no scrypt-n coins (pure?) anymore I think...blamo....

and if dash was to change it algo ..ouch!!!

So the catch with the oblisk sc-1 is very simple

1) if it goes no place will we get refunded

2) if they start production and it goes no place and money spent...likely not

3) will we see these in July 2018 or delays

4) can it survive as an SC coin only

probably a coin toss on x11 and that far in the future pre-order at best anyway

imho (I know zip at one time I drank the butterfly labs kool-aid..thus can't believe I pre-ordered 2 of these....young fool + now old fool = fool :(  )

Looks like Obelisk is still getting sales, at a slower rate. Current count is 1350 sold on their website.

I honestly think if they hold on the sales will pick up because time will erase some of the concerns.  I am considering picking one of these up if they are still for sale here in a few months.  But for now I have too many irons in the fire already.  LOL

I know that feeling well

Yeah...I"ve got TWO coming....breaking my 'iron clad' rule of being 'dumb' from butterfly lab days ...

you can call the old ASIC miner Legendary on here...but you can't take the 'optimistic kool aid drinking newbie away'

er....backslid... I mean July 2018 ..I got to be out of my frigging mind :(

hope this works out

On the other hand, I scratch my head and think about getting more as well

Going for the EPIC win or EPIC fail on such a bet.....

the music below on what I feel like when I try to decide on an ASIC machine purchases

hell, the lyrics even work...'given me a number (pre-order #) and taken away my name....ARGGGGHHH... ASIC makers the next "Smersh"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdC9P58hJT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdC9P58hJT8)

Just gonna have to get used to taking 'risks' or the IRS is gonna get way too much $$ this year

silly hobby

I am either going to the Siamoon or down with you! Let's do it!

You should try this one instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qQ1SKNlgY
I'm always dancing through the ASIC orders with this song on repeat! haha :D

Great! :(

This thread is full of future ASIC Anonymous Members..( I have a problem...I pre-order ASIC units 1 year in advance)....so more of us to go...running amuck thru this thread to. and co-enable me and my kool-aid drinking ASIC miner pre-order/unicorn riding...ASIC addiction..and 'taint' newbies to the fold.....sheesh

the kool-aid drinking is fierce in this thread :)

mining was supposed to be a 'silly harmless hobby' when I started in 2013...

so here we go...wind up the unicorn and charge into 2018 (I got to be out of my frigging mind)

Waiting's the hardest part...
https://youtu.be/-KJPP7GkuPU

But I'm still wishin' and hopin'
https://youtu.be/vbAoOeXC2Sg

Because mining's in my veins...
https://youtu.be/g0iZz3pkccw

it is good to see you guys have faith in this coin..lol whereby other ppl have given up....I too will buy @least one miner and just hope the value of SIA goes up...i will be very happy

i can already see myself paint my future home office with a painting saying

"Powered by SIA" lol #hopefullythinking

I can't decide if I should order one or not.  It worries me that only 1350 have presold.

cause ppl don't have faith in the coin....that is all

That doesn't really help my concerns at all.  I like the coin, but the development team seems to have issues, will this coin even be around by July of next year?

Honestly I don't think it is as much faith in the coin as the lead times before you would get the miner.  We don't know what will happen from one day to the next, and scream bloody murder when someone wants to do a pre-order 2 or 3 months out in advance.  This miner is a year in advance. 

The story would be very different right now if they were talking about Sept/October ship date.  People would still be complaining, but they would be putting their money on the table.  If it were a faith in the coin issue it wouldn't matter if they were shipping today, people wouldn't buy it.  I think people want to buy an Obelisk.  The timeline is too long at the moment for most people.

I will probably try to snag one of these if they are still available when I have the funds. 

I was told these miners will only do blake2b is it? Not blake2 coins?

So could blake2b coins be invented? Or is that impossible and I just looped
into making a siacoin doppelgänger instead, defeating the whole concept?

(Ouch, sprained my brain)

I don't know all (/any) of the details, but there WAS a coin a few years ago called OCTANE that used Blake2b. Skunk coin, inactive dev. team, never made it onto an exchange.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1100713.160

BUT it does show that it's possible... and these ASICs COULD bring about a lot more attention to the algo... If IIIIIII were to attempt to release a coin right now, I'd definitely make it Blake2b on the expectation of these SC1 ASICs. I figure I'd have at least a 1,000 miners looking for a coin like mine... especially if I could make it an auxiliary coin capable of merge mining.

So, is this a good investment?

No one knows how the market will be in 1 yr

that is true. they do seem like a well managed and professional team though.

it might be a very good investment, if the market is still in a boom...

if I understood correctly, they will keep selling SC1's until they fill the 4000 order? so I could still wait a couple of months? or will they suddenly close the order book?

Who knows man, a lot can happen in a year. We'll see x number of turmoils like this.

I decided not to buy it personally, I'd rather put 1 btc now and hodl 300k sia.
Actually I bought millions back when it was 10 satoshis, but sold it. :D

That's what I did, just bought 200k SC, decided to hold it until these miners come out.

that does seem like a good way to go about it, but still, I really like the idea of a passive income from mining...

And expense/depreciation of equipment.

But with those numbers... surely you could stay ahead of the curve for a very long time, no?

Was talking more about a tax deduction which will help with profitability.

In my case....I'm looking at 50% to IRS if I hold coin I mined (talking LTC)

28% FED
10% STATE TAX
12% SOC SEC/MEDICADE (setup as self-employed)

thus...I can give 50% to IRS/state/etc taxes and keep 1/2 my coin mined (or xfered from LTC to BTC etc in USA they call mining income..the IRS is not pleased mining coin out of thin air)

or

I can figure that 50% is lost...to the IRS as a done deal..and get another 25% off in equip deduction applied to taxes this year...I know I'm gonna pay some in anyway
so that is 25% off in real $$$ towards this year's bill.

and thus my real risk on a Siacoin miner is 25% more then Just paying the tax man for the BTC in question to purchase one...ASSUMING I pay this year and it arrives
next year

odds..its all about odds..why you see folk double down on equipment ..in USA if I make 60k in coin I pay 30k in taxes. (could be less of a % but had a huge year)....if I buy 60k in equip I owe nothing and have equip to putter along and mine into next year

this goes for all equip I get this year ASIC wise etc ..no matter the flavor or ASIC or Coin mined. You get 100% off All equipment applied to your gross income.

thus having an 'interesting'  year

be careful what you wish for mining ..you may surely get it ;)

silly hobby

I know this may be a subject for a different thread, but I like to live on the edge... also, I think there might be some overlap in interest...

Does anybody here own a SiaFund? If so, what has been your experience (maintenance difficulty, payout history etc?). Would you ever look to sell?

I'm considering it as an easier to manage alternative ...

Obelisk was sent an email about "Confirmed! We have received your coins. You will receive a second email when we verify + process the payment, and convert it to USD. This should be within 1 day. Thanks so much for your support and patience!

- Zach Herbert, VP of Operations "

But no any reply after this email.

Does anyone receive reply after received that email??

I am looking into various methods, currently running down the idea of contributing into a retirement account to reduce income.  If its on behalf of yourself, its not a deduction for the business, but is a pre-agi adjustment, so some tax benefit, but if its for an employee, say a spouse :), then its a deduction.  I need to run some numbers.

yeah.....I need to look into this probably.... but again my situation is unique this year with 4.15 to 50 buck LTC...thus will make in income 100k or more
(40k spent to get me into this thing as it chugs along) and maybe 40-60k (all profit) due to all expenses for the year (elec/hosting/etc) already paid.

If I can get over the hump into 2018...then back to normal ..you can't have above LTC price increase AND ROI on all your stuff (with prev ROI'd stuff) in 2 months
without getting caught like this at the end of the year

(knocks wood: hope same thing happens with obelisk sc-1 miners next year..that would teach me) :)

the die is cast......at least for the next 5 months.....buy everything :) sheesh

silly hobby

HEHE I know the pain.  If I come up with any other ideas I will make sure to pass it along to you.  Being a tax accountant, this is always on my mind.

I am new to this
I would like to ask a question
How much is mining return if I invested in $1000 of devices ( I have solar electricity so it can be considered free)
Thank you

Yes, you should get a second email.  They have been swamped trying to get the v1.3.0 of Sia out the door and have been slow processing the orders.  You can always reach out to them and ask for your status in particular.  If it is has only been a couple days, I wouldn't worry.  If it is over a week, I would reach out to Zach and get an up to date status on your order.

It is safe to order this miner? How can I be sure that they won't run with my money.

This article about the future of Siacoin is pretty bullish.

http://news.sys-con.com/node/4127259

Sia ---------> moon...

No it's a high risk. You have got to trust the Team and have faith in what they are doing.
If you do there is a Chance you can make a good profit. But nothing is for sure.

The parent company making this miner is in the USA and so is the company designing the miner.

Can they run with your money? Absolutely. but it's a lot harder to do in the USA.

If you read through all the info out there you will find that they have private backing for this miner and they opted to make a public sale to get it in the hands of the public and not just large investors/big mines.

Disclaimer: This is my speculation.
I believe it's happening regardless of what the public does, whatever is left of unfulfilled orders I expect they will just fill by selling to these private investors.

I have been checking the obelisk website frequently in the past couple of days and the order number doesn't seem like it's moving from 1350.

I'm seriously considering buying one, but I'm waiting for this slump in prices to pass...

Do you people think they will last?

Not sure. I have 2 on order, but the lack of updating unit counts and info about them at least trying to get mh from 100mh to 250mh and other info on their main website, well it holds me back from getting more. A sign perhaps that intent is good, but they are in over their heads, imho, at the moment.

The price of siacoin tanking is not helping. 💩

I hear ya... I mean, I think they just launched an update recently,which may explainntheir delay in unit sales updating... and I thought they already confirmed the 250 GH/S spec...

Personally, I want the Sia price to be down... and their asic sales lackluster... it'll give me a chance to pick up a few more, as well as discourage other ASIC manufacturers from entering the BLAKE (2b) algo marketplace.

But it's possible I'm being delusional, and overly optimistic... I wouldn't put it past me...

were is this miner available to order?

What are you all estimating as profitability for this miner?

https://obelisk.tech

There is also a calculator that estimates ~150,000 SC a month. At current price of ~.005 that is $750 a month.

Very itriguing. Pretty sick gamble. Do they have a working prototype already or are they still scratching their heads and trying to figure it out ? And if it goes south there is no chance whatsoever of getting your money back ? I mean.. world of crypto is changing pretty fast and 1 year is long time...

I think the dev team should disclose the progress and at least concept design of the machine ;D

Do you have calculated the diff in next time after Asic release? I think if have Asic for mining Sia the diff mining will increasing very more, as other crypto the profit will decreasing soon.

When i can see obelisk sc1?

Obelisk.tech

*goes to preorder*
Sees "*orders are estimated to ship by June, 2018."
Me: ...

The last I heard from their slack / reddit thread is that they were designing the chip, and that the SC1 will be able to do 250 GH /s, instead of the original conservative 100gh/s promised before they opened pre-sale orders. A lot of people made the point that if a couple thousand ASICs are unleashed on the network, it doesn't really matter how powerful they are... they'll just be competing over the same block rewards, but I don't think that's the case. Some GPUs are still likely to mine against superior technology, the way that old scrypt and sha asics continue to mine. This upgrade in hashrate should bring the gpu miners' percentage, as well as discourage competition.

Yes, a year is a long time (tho it is already a month sooner), but the future does happen. I suppose they could butterfly labs the presale buyers, but I don't know. The Obelisk company has the same development team as the coin itself, and they've been pretty active and open, especially compared to most other cryptos.

I suppose we'll see, but if they deliver, It could be a pretty good way to secure a near mining monopoly on an up and coming coin, while the other asic algos get saturated with hardware...

Just my 2 satoshis...

Welcome to the thread.

Is there anything you can share regarding the progress of this ASIC is it on schedule? Isthe 250 GH rate speculation, or based on something more concrete? Is  development in line with the original schedule.

Any insight you can share would be greaty appreciated...

seems like a really smart investment however i look at it, yet still I can't seem to decide. I wish I could know if they were still going to be on sale in september...

and I wish somebody could decide for me :D :D

Yeah, the delay kinda stinks. However, they said they would target as early as February 2018 -- just not a commitment.

update: it's been 8 days, almost 9 now that the pre order is showing 1350. thats approx 65 orders per day. if no one orders for 8 day straight thats 1/520 or 0.19% chance of it happening lol..
http://imgur.com/a/iPZMd

How about timeline? Possible to get it before Mar 2018?

250 GH/s would be pretty sick.. should just take take risk and order it. I'm just bit worried that bigger asic developers like Bitmain will announce their SIA ASIC in 2 months, same speed/price and delivery is in January lol

I seriously doubt SIA is on Bitmain's radar just yet.  That all could change quickly however if the price surges.  It wasn't until Dash caught fire that anyone was taking it very seriously.  The small guys who managed to build an X11 miner and those who bought them when it didn't make a lot of sense financially came out in a pretty good place.  But you had to be willing to go against the grain a bit to have that happen for you. 

By the time people figure out something is a good idea it is too late.  The big move in price, performance, availability is gone.  So I think people just need to think in those terms.

The Obelisk is a an against the grain kind of move.  It may be a flop, it may not happen, or it may be a huge windfall for those who took the risk and locked in these miners.  Once people finally decide it is a good idea you won't be able to find these things as they won't be able to produce them or produce them fast enough. 

I haven't bought one yet, but I hope to scrape up some cash to at least get one.  I will probably wish I had bought as many as I could get my hands on.

Right, anybody who mined / stacked litecoin or Dash with first generation asics made out VERY well, no matter how many new / competing models came after.

In this case, I don't see another Asic company swooping in with a better Sia asic anytime soon. The Obelisk team launched it to secure the network and increase the value of the coin. But they're struggling to sell a batch of 4000, so I don't think other companies will spend the time/money until this one is proven successful.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that (imho) a different ASIC company launching a competing model would be a good thing (for SC1 prebuyers)...Or at least symptomatic of lucrative returns...

 It would mean that the profitability of THIS SC1 model was so high that other companies want in on the act. By the time that happens, Obelisk SC1 buyers wouldve already made a pretty satoshi...

In fact, more so than worrying about other Asic companies coming to market with competing hardware designed for the Blake 2b algorithm, I'm much more concerned about OBELISK quickly releasing upgraded hardware.

While it's true that:

1) Obelisk has provided a coupon to first batch SC1 buyers, valid for any future Obelisk product.

And

2) they've promised 6 weeks of exclusivity to anybody who buys a first batch SC1. In other words there will be 4,000 SiaCoin Asics mining for those first 6 weeks, and no more... AFTER that, is anybody's guess.

6 weeks is a very short and long period of time in crypto mining. The greedy side of me, the side willing to take risks for huge windfalls, would of course like a longer exclusive period. AND it would seem (to a lamen such as myself) that with the struggle to sell 4,000 of them, that a longer exclusive period would be an easy thing to offer. They may be forced to offer a longer exclusive period, whether they want it or not... so I say, might as well offer it by choice...

But i've never financed, designed, produced, and released an asic before... so what do I know?

Anyone from Siacoin listening to this thread? You want to sell more ASIC's give me a reason to 'drink more of the kool-aid" (I already have TWO on order)

I mean ..update your product count on your page it has been 1350 or whatever for a month...

post some 'naked ASIC chip pictures"  If you don't have any yet show me a 'naked case' or a 'line drawing' or something

Looking for a reason to go 'stupid' and buy more ..but not seeing any real reason to do so...

looking for pre-order abuse..er  I mean reasons to pre-order more of this beast...but getting discouraged.....

(I needs some equip depreciation in mass quanities) :)



http://media.sinematurk.com/film/1/b4/eb75d0d428c0/17279_2.jpg

I think they are just lagging on the page, people on reddit saying they ordered theirs as recently as yesterday.

I just have issues sending $$$ to people who don't bother to market...its a business...I don't care if you sell
hot dogs on the street...you have to have SOME communication on your product..this is silly, the lack of any info
on main page etc .it is PR 101 for crying out loud.

If they can't do that, it makes a guy wonder if they will "flub' the asic mnfg process and I won't even get a doorstop.

Agree with you ...
More reliable information would be nice, not sure about this, but if i remember right, they speak about push up the specs of the SC1 miner.
Is not even modified on the web page ...

I agree but from what they outlined on Reddit, its only 3 of them all together working on SIA and one of their devs is pulling double duty managing the site. They talked about hiring someone to do it but my guess is that idea didn't pan out because SIA has corrected back to where it was before the bubble.

I think the gap here is "where" they are communicating... because from what I can tell it's all over on Reddit which is buried in threading system used (makes it hard to find)

I remember that they said no Sia core dev member involved in ASIC development, then where is the ASIC team?

Well another angle is this to bleed some $$$ (and at least get some nas hd's etc out of it)

Has anyone MADE one of their ..whatever they are called hosting nodes with NAS hd's etc?

I could do that see if it even pays to pursue this whole asic miner

If that backbone decentralized storage does not hold water in tossing together a unit with the software

then perhaps this is all a pipe dream....I don't expect to make any money..but would be nice to see if

the damn thing works in the manner at this time they say it does

At least I could burn some hardware $$ that way..see if that gave me some confidence in their vision

right now it is like asic mushroom farming in the basement...it smells like S*it.....but I am in the

dark and don't know enough about mushroom farming to tell how it works and hangs together

maybe need to get my hands dirty on such a box (and it bleeds $$$ out of my need for equip this year

with little risk...at least I'd have a crap load of Hd's for like forever ) :)

took a look and i cant see how this is a serious push for an ASIC.

shipping before June 2018? lol you can make more money by just putting the ASIC cost into SIA coin and just holding it, or trading it on and off.

If the machines were 1-3 months out, ok. 1 year out preorder? no way.

It's pure speculation. I got 2 on order, due to I need equip deprec this year

I can give 50% in taxes on mining income this year. Or get 100% equip deduction
On all my income with equip. With the 25% in real money back on taxes I know I
Can't cover with equip this year, it is a 25% more gamble to get proper equip, than
just handing 50% over in all taxes on mining income. Think 'hamster wheel'.

Only reason I'm considering more than the original 2 ordered

I send them a mail about worrying that the asics would run out and I'm still waiting for the next bull run so i can afford this...

And one of them replied that they are currently at around 1400 units so unless there's a big batch bought i shouldn't worry.

Just an fyi.

Good to know . Thanks , plan to buy two, but maybe wait until end of the year

I want to start a campaign to get team Obelisk to recognize this forum thread. I mean, there are existing customers here looking to buy additional units (myself included)... potensial customers consideeing their first purchase. If Sia's dev team wants to reach their market, they could do a lot worse.

I've contacted their facebook page, slack account etc, but so far nothin'. Any ideas?

i have been contemplating buying 1-2 of these since the thread started, but this lack of information is really scary.

i don't know if they are really busy developing this thing or they so sure that they can sell the whole patch with no communication effort or what.

I'm wanting to get in too, thinking of getting 5 but don't see any big reason to hurry right now.

so assuming all 4k units are sold. the current 350Th will be increased by additional 400Th which means one can expect half the amount of coins, so instead of 150000 coins you gonna get 75000 and at current price is around 600usd per month. making it 5months to ROI hmmm...

As the Team already stated the asics will deliver at least 250 Gh. That makes a total of 1000 Th if all 4000 are Sold.
It is very likely GPU Mining will be useless because of brutal difficulty increase. So most of them will step out and dualmine something else.

So we will have almost all Hashingpower done by these 4000 Obelisks. At least for the first six weeks. In this time you will very likely get 1/4000 of every Blockreward.
That makes a total of round about  225,000 SC.

I don't know man... They replied to my email. And I wasn't even the most enthusiastic potential customer. I said I might have money for one in September. So not really like they replied to me just because I was a big fish. I'm sure they have their hands full, or perhaps some are on vacation. Sometimes we forget people are people. They need their rest.

Are you sure your numbers are correct?

Makes me wonder... any thoughts on what happens if Siacoins get a 200% or 400% upsurge in price. Does that influence anything do you think?

Obelisk is the company that will be producing these chips.

Obelisk is a fully owned subsidiary of Nebulous Inc.

Nebulous is the company that employs all of the Sia core developers.

Obelisk has plans for growth in the future. None of these plans are finalized as we are primarily focusing on shipping this miner, but potential future products include:

A 16nm or 14nm ASIC for Sia

A mining card costing under $1000 that you can put into a GPU slot

ASICs for other PoW cryptocurrencies

I dunno man.. All of this sounds very nebulous to me...

:D couldn't help myself. Great work and a good roadmap. Are you an official representative or just some rando?

Just copied it from a reddit post of a team member I believe.


https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/6j1gyg/obelisks_sia_asics_full_details/

Holy crap.  I ordered two of these the day they went on sale for preorder.  We early buyers are getting a freaking sweet deal, and I know find out Wolf0 is on the case.  Really glad i made that call now.  Obelisk, keep on keeping on sirs! Wolf0, you da real MVP.

Count went up from 1350/4000 to 1450/4000.
https://obelisk.tech/index.html

Great article in the Boston Globe about Siacoin and their development team.

Tldr: 10x ferraris to the moon

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/08/07/sia/sUZ0p3EEAsgVuL2aGCeqEJ/story.html

Look at what bitmain did to ibelink, baikal and innosilicon with the dash miners. Bitmain will ruin these companies with the d3, and noone thought bitmain would pursue x11, what if they pursue blake2b? Be very weary...

I dont think they will as SIA is just another ALT for them with almost zero value and Also by looking at the struggle for sale of Obelisk would have put off any company thinking about the same. They are not really intrested in Technology behind a coin, all they need is your $$$ and I dont think SIA will cut it for them.

The struggle of the obelisk sale is the price and the time to wait for shipment. Bitmain could easily bring something out in 4 not 9+ months and far cheaper. If these obelisks were sold at 1500$ instead of 2500 or shipped by xmas then theyd be sold out by now. Dash was just another alt to them too. Sia will have huge value if its the first coin of its kind to obtain an asic to secure its network. Its definately pumpable as history has shown. Its not likely this will happen before the obelisk ships, but after that its more likely to happen if sia succeeds.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

The only thing I'd add is that IF the day ever comes when Bitmain produces Blake2b ASICs... then nobody would be happier than first generation Obelisk customers. How does that make any sense?

Well, if Bitmain decides that SiaCoin Asics are worth persuing, then the price of Sia would already be so high, and SiaCoin mining would be so profitable, that first generation Obelisk customers would have already made a pretty satoshi...

That's basically what happened with Litecoin and Dash.

Also if Bitmain was to show an interest (or be perceived as doing such), it would be likely imho that someone or many someones would develop MORE blake2b coins (assuming
this is possible..for all I know blake2b is ONLY siacoin ..thus the b tag)

that would open things up quite a bit imho...and make these miners more likely to mine something, even after say difficulty on siacoin proper may be too hard

anyway, this is all speculation ...

the way to look at these units is the way venture capitalists look at investing VC money..if the odds are about 50/50 or better...you jump in......(if over 50/50 everyone would be in already)
and you HOPE it hits (say 1 out of 3 chance) ...if it hits you are golden... if not..you lose it all.

Thus on anything like this 1 year in advance timeline...give them what money YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE on this speculative gamble...and mentally think of a nice campfire and toss all that money in...and walk away....

If it works you are surprised...if not ...well.....folks like us get few VC opportunities of any note to learn about....so at least you can say you 'man'd up' and lost on a VC gamble

Again, even if the devs intentions are good....and they are honest etc...this whole thing could still go 'pear shaped' at any time...be aware..

(crypto always drama) :)

the only thing ... that worry me about this is they are using 28nm chip as what i know s9 antminer is using 16or 18nm chip ..
and what samsung phone on s7 are using 10nm chip this is what i read few month ago .. so i stop buying antminer is when i know new chip in production
so what worry me is when all this S11 of antminer using those 10nm chip for next gen miner ... then those extra 16 or 18nm chip will take place to replace
sia asic miner ... and if u say is 3 month later or 5 maybe .. i will still take the risk from now till june is about 10 month anything can happen ...

10 month ago or so is where s9 antminer replace S7 antminer so ... matter of time ..


just my 2 cent of view and what i read when i want to buy antminer back then


yvmen

Wow this is great. What this SIA ASIC actually means to me:

OBELISK ASIC = 3 MONTHS ROI = PROFIT $$$

However, with more of the coin will in circulation, what impact will this have on SIA price?

None to little. The daily Block Reward will stay the same but mostly distributed between Obelisk owners.

Well...not sure that is gonna happen.....been buying ASIC's since 2013...thus....IF and I mean IF
their ASIC equipment can ROI from say 10-12 months, I'd consider that a win, with the equip
deduction, that in USA can all be taken that particular year.

As to other silliness


Well...I'm considering NOW, getting 2 more siacoin Obelisk SC-1 miners to make it an even 4 miners total. (1 in batch 100 and 1 at around 1300 mark..this 2 unit batch
would probably be above 1500 mark)

mainly because I need the equip deductions and BTC as I speak is at $3407 usd. Which comes out at 1.488 BTC or .744 btc each.

Anyone else on who is considering same......(uncertainty loves company) :)

Nobody can accurately predict what impact these ASICs will have on the price of Siacoin, BUT I CAN give you my rosy speculation if you're interested...

Crypto is such a new asset class, it's hard to find precedent / correlaries... That being said, if you look at the trading patterns of Litecoin and Dash after their first asics hit the market, I believe you'll find that the price initially dropped. I asssume a lot of that was miners looking to ROI by converting to btc or cash, but who know?

That was in the short term... had those miners HELD ON TO what they mined, even when the price dropped, they'd probably be millionairs now, or close to it... In other words, if you factor in the giant price increase of ltc/dash, those first gen asics were EXTREMELY profitable, in spite of the initial dip in price.


That's not to say that will happen here... 2 alt coins are a very small sample set

There's also a big difference between the Obelisks and those first generation ltc/dash Asics...The companies that built the first litecoin and dash asics did so because they thought it would be profitable... they thought it would be profitable because the price/profitability/interest in the coin was already present.

Those factors probably/definitely could/do have a lot more to do with the meteoric rise in price litecoin and dash have enjoyed. The Obelisk Asic company, on the other hand, is comprised of the same developers ass the coin itself... They CHOSE to build an Asic for Blake2b, not because they thought it was the most profitable algo to mine, but rather to add security to their network.

I do think that having a more secure network, AND a development team capable of getting an Asic to market is indicative of a coin that's going places, but nobody knows. It's uncharted territory.. They haven't even done it yet...

But if I may make one humble prediction, I think that future mining newbies will do a quick search for what alt coins can be mined with Asics, and (with the oversaturation of other algos) seek out an Obelisk if only for the novelty and diversity.

TLDR: While having an Asic doesn't guarantee any rise in price for a coin, I do think it's a good sign and indicative of a stable coin with a future. The success of the coin will ultimately hinge on whether people use their coin for decentralized data storage... But an asic is rarified air for sure, and great first step.

Hats off to Searing for putting his money where his doubt usually is.

Personally, I threw a bunch of crypto towards hardware that's FINALLY starting to arrive. I bought an Obelisk the first hour they went on sale, but haven't bought another one since. I'm hoping to buy 3 more when my crypto flow allows... and a(n irrational) part of me is worried they'll sell out before then... Luckily the sales counter seems to be on my side.

On a side note Searing, if you're buying 4 SC1s... how do you plan on stacking your Sia when you're mining? Do you plan on holding Sia, or trading out of it? Reinvesting it in the SC2?... ... or maybe selling data storage at a reduced rate? A combination of all 4?

yeah I pulled the trigger and got two more (see my pm to you) I added 2 tonite to make a total of 4 units. 1 in first 100 lot. 2nd in 1300 area and this last in the 1450 lot or so.

no idea...just probably have them setup in a row on my miner table setup ...the titans should be doorstops in the basement by then or I'll put them with my main
stuff at the data hall...

I don't have data hall pics..but the setup by the dryer in the pics below is still going strong in the basement. All other hash is elsewhere. (ran out of data hall room)

lostgonzo.imgur.com (http://lostgonzo.imgur.com)

Again probably same setup with the 2580 server psu's in the old jupiter cases below for power. (notice no y adapters needed on Titans on the 1 server unit. 15awg wire.)

anyway sent you a pm

brad

With 28,428,047,460 coins already in circulation doesnt leave too much room for any major future price increases. Id avoid buying from future obelisk batches.

Out of curiosity, why the plexiglass foundation? Just aesthetics or a heating reason?


Anyway... These SC1's are looking more and more tempting... I wish this bull run would start already so I could more easily afford one. Someone lend me the cash? :D :D

I had some glass .the old type folk on old dressers...I put it down because of the cheap half assed controller board just sitting on the table KNC titan setup (sucks)

so seems to keep it a bit cooler and a bit of anti-static me thinks...and looked better there then on the old dressers

the workbench is like 200 bucks at sam's club and real frigging butcher block and heavy duty steel legs...also the shelves are menard's closet setup stuff

works slick

the PSU's are a buddies idea (maxumark) he found the bladed back plates with the computer protection guts of a regular PSU inside for over voltage protection etc
pop'd them in the old knc Jupiter 550gh btc case and 15 AWG wire no y connectors needed 2580 watts at 94% eff (vs corsair1200i 91%) and cost 300 bucks for
the works new....platinum also (equiv 1200i Corsair 1200 watt also 300 bucks only ran 1/2 a titan) thus a good hack

and again as to siacoin

they will either make it as a decentralized storage operation as they have planned, cheaper than the big boys, using ASICs for speed, security etc, transactions
with the siacoin's themselves acting more as a token than a store of value...or we are all screwed.

this project works as a bitcoin equiv of a decentralized storage with the ASIC's and siacoin as kinda tokens angle

or it all goes poof...thus the ASIC's they have stated would not work as a gpu merge mined coin for the purposes they want to use this coin for .not enough control
security etc

so this is long term 2018 stuff ...or so in my limited way as how I see the project so far and I also BADLY needed the equip depreciation this year

thus it is a gamble

later

brad

Seems cool.


Get it? :) oh, I kill myself.

A lot of you keep mentioning this is a gamble. Sure. But so is all of crypto. I don't see how this is any more of a gamble. I feel it's even less so than a lot of other options out there.

And I really like the passive income aspect. I don't have a lot of income, so in order to get more money into crypto, which I believe is the smart thing in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, this enables me to do that.

I was thinking, sell half, leave half in siacoin? That way I'm made full in about 4-5 months. After that, all else is profit.

And I do believe in siacoin.

Good news for SIA . To The Moon coming? :D

Pretty good article about the future of cloud storage.

Talks about Sia and their competitors like Storj

https://hacked.com/cloud-storage-mature-saturation-early-adopter-phase/

Anyone care to comment on why Siacoin is down to almost 100 satoshi while Storj is soaring up over a dollar fifty.

Pump & Dump

It's a valid question, and of course I can't answer with certainty why one coin moves one way, while another moves a different way in the short term. Any answer would be speculation.

BUT i will say this much... I think the Sia team is taking a more measured, long term play. They are focusing on their infrastructure, technology, scalability, updates, and (with these Obelisks) securing their network /blockchain.

Sia's development team seems to be less focused on short term pumps... keeping their marketing powder dry for when their network is actually able to compete with data storage juggernauts like Amazon...

You only get one chance with some of this stuff, just my rose colored humble speculation..

Pretty good article about SiaCoin

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/08/investors-poured-millions-into-a-storage-network-that-doesnt-exist/

ok, thanks for the replies. I'm still planning on getting a couple of the miners but holding out for a bit longer right now.

Hopefully SIA goes up, but with so many people having a ton from dual mining with ETH I think it will get dumped hard before it can go up.

What do you think is the biggest thing that sets sia apart from its competition? I've tried Storj. It seems more intuitive to share storage space. However, I think they might be focused on different clients?

U are right, the UI interface is more friendly with Storj, just some frond end dev. Sia will be a more more secure network, but i agree with dual miner a lot of ppl just dump, so SIA have a long road to do ... I gona buy one of this asic in end on 2017, not sure about this.

It's already being dumped since BTC on the rise, I'm waiting for it to bottom out so I can buy a bunch more :D

Sia has taken a beating over the last week or so, a lot of it is due to a few comments from the Dev team regarding their opinion on the value of SC, and their wish to see it remain "stable". One could read it as a good thing, but many of us viewed it as indifference towards their investors, and those of us who were mining to secure the network.

I wont make this a long winded response, but it does come from someone who mined, holds, and was close to pulling the trigger on 2 or 3 obelisks (their ASIC miner) that is currently in presale.

I ultimately pulled back on all but the holding front due to them making these public blunders, and it has had a real negative effect on the price. If you would like more info, I suggest reading more on their Reddit page.

I think a lot of people are loosing faith in the teams ability to operate this project as a business, not just a project. They desperately require a proficient PR team that could turn these missed opportunities into positives. I became increasingly frustrated when I witnessed the team piss away a great chance to gain traction with their Pre-sale trainwreck (people now asking for refunds) (only selling under 1/2 their expectations), coupled with the public blunders when it comes to discussing SC value, and giving the impression that they're a bunch of kids working in an apartment.

I still believe the technology is awesome, they have 2 years on Filecoin, but they need to get their act together and start giving consideration to the miners/investors.

Maybe it's just bcoz that the dev team is taking vacation? :P
as business perspective, they are now backed by VCs, so i guess the situation would get better as time goes by? But i do agree that their communication especially over the asic, sucks

The VC funding is great, with news like that, one would expect the price to go up? Further, high profile articles come out stating how great the technology is, again the price should go up. The problem is, in both of these instances, their price went down - all due to ineptness in handling the situation properly.

The VC money can fix this, the question becomes do they fix it?

But isn't having a stable coin a good thing? A slow but constant growth connected with the growth of the network...

I don't know. This isn't bitcoin. It's supposed to be a service coin. I think the idea of having a steady, stable coin is pretty sound.

Well, price stability is "nice" and all, but it's not a guarantee of future prosperity. The price of a coin is determined by the whims of whoever is holding /buying /selling a coin at any given time. Sometimes those fluctuations are based on logic and reason, other times those fluctuations are nonsensical and arbitrary.

Crypto currency is such a new, undeveloped asset class that volatility is par for the course. Even bitcoin was half its current value a month ago.

If crypto currency survives in general, then a lot of cryptos with real game plans, engaged dev teams, solid tech etc should appreciate in price over time... but there are no guarantees.

SiaCoin Obelisks (assuming they get built and delivered) WILL secure the SiaCoin network. Right now, 2 or 3 Siacoin gpu mining pools COULD join forces and 51% attack their network. From my limited understanding... I think that would be a bad thing.

Network security doesn't GUARANTEE price appreciation, since a coin's price is based on the whims of whoever's trading at the time, but it's certainly a VERY good sign and indicative of a crypto on the go...

SIA MOON!!!

Siacoin's releasing a Lite wallet in a few days.

http://wallet.luxor.tech/

I don't know how or if this will effect the coin's price in the short term, BUT it's this type of development and activity that makes me a SiaCoin believer in the long term.

They seem to be making these advancements all the time, that will really pay off over time. They haven't made a huge oush in marketing, but I think they're keeping their powder dry till their infrastructure is set up.

good luck with that. I've dumped all of my SIA

heh, well my gamble is with the Obelisk SC-1 miner ... on the other hand...equipment drought at this time in 2017
that makes sense to get...thus 50% pay IRS or take that 50% get 4 units....with an additional 25% off in real
$$$ towards taxes off gross income. Thus for 25% more risk than just giving $$$ to IRS, went with 4 of these.

MAYBE, not my wisest move....but some of these units may be moving, for the same reason.

Pretty good article if your looking to maybe expand investment into Sia Network ontop of miners.


Create Your Own Low-Cost Cloud Storage App with Sia and Nextcloud


https://mtlynch.io/sia-nextcloud/

The whole process is quite complicated for a "normal person" and that is a huge problem even though the price you have to pay for 1TB storage is more than 10x cheaper. Hopefully with time they come up with simple drag and drop solution otherwise i can't see this thing going to the moon.

That sounds about right to me. I mean there are tons of companies with tons of IT personnel  that I think would gladly suffer the user-unfriendly interface to save 25-50 percent on data storage.

Not to mention all of the companies that can act as middle men between grandmas and the Sia network...

I think the REAL reason Sia's interface isn't very user friendly is the same reason their marketing is lackluster: They haven't focused on it YET.

All of their moves, improvements, updates etc have been about Sia's infrastructure, it's scalability. What they've done so far has been pretty impressive, and if these Obelisks are real / get delivered, SiaCoin will be one of FOUR coins with an Asic secured blockchain.

Do any of us REALLY think that Siacoin won't make it to the moon because they can't make a nice interface? I mean for real tho. Is that what we're saying? They raised millions to secure their network with asics, they established a functioning marketplace of decentralized data storage, they're  releasing updates and new features all the time... BUT they got done in because they couldn't make something LOOK nice?

Idk. Maybe I take interface development for granted. I'm sure (like anything else) it's hard to do well... but i mean... come onnnnnn!!!

Just got a notice that Sia is moving their correspondance from Slack to Discord.

https://discord.gg/sFCT3Ar

Not sure why. I've never used discord before... to be honest, i Barely used Slack...

I just found out that the people behind Butterfly labs ASIC chips are the same producers as for the Obelisk.
I might be wrong here tho, just looking for opinions!

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_Bitcoin_mining_ASICs

"Butterfly Labs, Inc.
Facilitators: Chronicle Tech (now Custom Silicon Solutions)"

Thoughts?

Can anybody tell me how profitable is to mine with such ASIC? Because SIA is a strange altcoin. Is it real to return money in some 5-6 months?

At current SIA price, and supposed hashing power, it would mine somewhere in $750-$1000 range per month minus electricity cost.
Draw your own conclusions :)

Perhaps this was obvious..but if you have more than one coupon you can only apply 1 coupon to 1 unit of any flavor...

I got an email on this....

thus most discount on any unit is $400 if you were 1st week and then #250 there after

I remember looking at this back when they launched and was sure they said 'per order' but live an learn

Not really sure about the profitability of the SC1 anymore.
There are other players in the market and it will be a fight about who will prevail.

yeah, I only got mine for equip deduction...I'm at 50% tax rate this year....and the good old 25% you can take off in full for computer 5 year equip deduction (stimulus) the same year

thus for 25% more risk than paying IRS 50% of my crypto mining....with that 25% I can apply to my taxes due this year....I got some of these

IF they just make 25% back after expenses I"m essentially even, with the above considerations this year..then IF I just sucked it up and paid the tax man on mining

on the other hand

someone NEW and using fiat and $$$ not mining.....is getting 25% and the other 75% of the product is all risk....none of my real life/justifications....correct or otherwise

hardly fair but that is how it is shaking out for me this tax year...thus the purchase (dubious thou it was indeed) :(

Are you saying someone else is making a SIA Asic or are your saying that since the SIA price has tanked recently (due to BTC price increase and massive sell offs of SIA) you don't think it will be profitable anymore?

I believe the SIA price will come back up as the actual functionality of the architecture gains adoption. It's definitely a marathon situation for SIA.

Have you looked into taking bonus or 179 depreciation on your equipment?  Bonus depreciation allows you to take an extra 50% in the current year and 179 allows you to take the entire amount in the current year.  Just a thought, but feel free to reach out if you want more information.

DCR1 Miner + Presale Updates
We are very excited to announce the presale launch of a second Obelisk miner: DCR1 for mining Decred. You can read more about it on our blog. We were able to reuse much of the SC1 chip design, since Decred's Blake256 mining algorithm is very similar to Sia's Blake2b.

The DCR1 can only mine Decred, and the SC1 can only mine Siacoin. This new product launch will not affect the timeline, and we are still on track to ship both models by June 2018!

If you've already purchased an Obelisk SC1, you can use your order number as a coupon for the DCR1 presale. More details about coupons can be found on our FAQs page.
 
Additionally, we are excited to announce that the SC1 will ship with a minimum hashrate of 300 GH/s, which is 3x what we originally promised!

The presale for both the DCR1 and SC1 will end on November 24. Please let us know if you have any questions or feedback.
 
Best,
 
- Team Obelisk

I think I was unclear. It is 25% real $$ saved off taxes I know I will owe. To get that all equip
deducted in this year. Thus the angle and again 50% on top of that to taxes if I don’t get equip
anyway.

Well, the equip deduction is nice...I did mine the crypto to get the 5 obelisk sc-1 miners for a total in USD of $10,140.00 USD.

ON THE OTHER HAND

In 20/20 hindsight it cost me 4.108 BTC. That amount of BTC (at the current price as I type this of) $12,760.44 USD gives

me a total cost of $$57,419.89 at current BTC prices......yeah....mental giant I am! Not a real deal for 5 Obelisks. Had a buddy do the same.

(I shall blame him...he got 5 first...I simply had to follow...it is all his fault!)

And the price of BTC will likely GO UP MORE by the time they ship.... June 2018

Not sure if I should mine them or leave them virgin and put them in a bookcase shrine..never to touch the internet on their rarity!

fun times, damn silly hobby I got into...but hey!!!!

I HAVE $10,140.00 USD I can take off my gross income this year for tax purposes......


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/394/958/374.png

sheesh.....

brad

Yes, thats funny...in a long run you'll probably never mine enough SIA to catch up to value of those 4BTC...then again, who knows what the future holds for us...

For basic i never use BTC to buy mining equipement oO

When i buy mining equipment is only from new money, i never take from my crypto stack ...

On other way you make a bet, if BTC go down after your buy, you win ... In other way you loose ...

Second you blame someone cause they tell to you buy SIA ASIC, well you are a grown man and you take YOUR DECISION.

DONT BLAME OTHER PEOPLE FOR THIS oO

It wasn't me but Searing :D

My bad :D

I was just letting everyone have a good laugh at my expense......I did NOT buy a lot of mining equipment...at the end of the year

just the sia stuff.....majority I did at 1st part of the year for crypto and have killed it this year

actually, that slack allowed me to gamble with obelisk's as a hedge because the tax man was gonna kill me w/o equipment

catch 22

but no, always have a reason to do stuff...but when BTC went beyond 2.5k ..well....them days of using crypto and mining it back died

around June 2017....up until then ..the angle has worked well for me since 2013

but your point is vaild, from now on take out a 'bank loan' and if it all goes pear shaped THEN use crypto to get out of the hole

but that will only work from now on with very modest amounts of equipment that make sense

anyway, w/o the siacoin miners at 10,104.00 ....I'd be in doo/doo with the IRS now ..so again ..ego wise it made sense back in the day

er now...er $$$ first then crypto if you get jam'd up..but only enough $$$ to get modest equip for deduction reasons to use for IRS

by modest 1 or 2...but even such miners do not exist and may not exist for a year....if ALL cryptos continue to play this MOON SHOT game!

live an learn....(don't be me) :)

brad

Hello guys, can anybody calculate/estimate what difficulty will be for Decreed and Sia coins after the first batch starts mining, with these figures of the sold miners?

SC1: 3600 units

DCR1: 3000 units

All, I have on my 'dubious' use of crypto to buy miners from 2017...is on the OLD 1st batch calculator it was 750,000 coin for 5 obelisks I have, per month.

Also, with the release of ASIC miners, they expected the amount of Siacoin to exist in the world to increase by 25% each month thereafter...

anyway, that info is no longer around from what I can tell ..nor the calculator for Siacoin estimated profits


unsure, if this helps, all I have to go on is above

Did I get this right that the Obelisk will be the first blake2 ASIC on the market? Could it be actually used to mine Raiblocks as well?

Baikal B is already out - https://www.baikalminer.com/product10.php

Thanks for info!   Do i understand correcly that  it can mine both Sia and Decred - unlike Obelisk who has two different miners.

Also hashrate is  10 times less for Sia and Decred, than of Obelisk ?

Surely they have time advantage, if they are available soon.

no - with the obelisk for sia you cannot mine decred because decred does not use the same algorithm (sorry - I should have said "the sia-obelisk uses blake2"). However, as far as I could see, Raiblocks uses blake2 (I don't know any other coin though that has blake2 as mining algorithm). Though I guess that one would write the software to mine something else than sia on the sia-obelisk

Thanks @kurbeks (but the sia-obelisk should have more than 800 GH, which is 10x the Baikal, or?)

So if you are a silly f*ck like myself and already have FIVE of these (shudder ..hopefully NOT vaporware Unicorns on order)

AND should be insane enough for FIVE more units in the 2nd batch. (w/the 1/2 price coupons)

Is the Decred miner the way to go ...to increase my odds....(supposing these unicorn/rainbow miners exist?)

just asking what folk think about the Decred unit as an option or a hedge in my case on the last FIVE maybe unicorn purchases

or no one has a clue?

p.s. newbies remember I'm getting these MAYBE because I'm in the 50% tax rate

(40% mined coin used less than 1 year ie capital gains on profit made on such HODL'ing
and then spending and 10% state tax..more or less call it 50% set aside to be safe if my mining Income goes poof say around July 2018...got to set aside for equip and/or
the tax man, while you are making income....)


I also have taxes DUE I'm sure this year of 2018..thus I can get equip deduction for 5 years all in this year for a total of 25% back against taxes I'd have to pay anyway.

Thus MY risk is 25% more or less above taxes paid...vs the above equip deduction and the tax man...IF you don't have any of the above your risk is a FULL 75% loss, if such units don't ROI and you just have the 25% equip deduction (assuming you have INCOME in some manner from crypto to justify this)...then be aware of my 'convoluted' logic on all this

so again, as a newbie, you may be way better to just HODL coin....I have embraced my cluelessness in that it has worked before....don't become me :) It can be 'unsettling" :(

Sorry i coudn't quite understand your point.   Let's put away tax issues you mentioned.  Current "estimated" mining profitability is huge with obelisk efficiency - if you mine with them now.    Yes, it will drop a lot after release.  Same situation happened with D3 Bitmain dash miners, when profit droppped from a few thousands USD/month to $150 just withing a couple of monthes after they flooded the market.

But D3 were produced in huge qties by Bitmain - dozens of thousand units.   Unilke Obelisk - just 7k units have been sold in batch 1 (SC and DCR combined) and maybe 5k will be sold in batch 2.  Also obelisk says it won't  hugely mine by themselves - like probably Bitmain did.  "Obelisk intends to operate up to but not exceeding 20% of the hashrate of every cryptocurrency for which we make chips".

In this circumstances difficulty should not increase dramatically, like it was with Dash, and profit won't disappear.  Don't you think so?

sorry what mix of units.....5 decred? or 5 obelisk sc-1's from batch 2 or a mixture of each?

I already have FIVE sc-1's so wondering on what folk thought about the decred miner option they are offering

as to the tax issues.....and the 1/2 price coupons....well...perhaps wise moves or dumb moves are made I guess, from such silly coincidences...

brad

They mention on the site that  in 2nd batch they sold 849 pcs of DCR1 and 871 of SC1 so far, so i just assume that they may sell about 5k units combinedin this batch (till end of the month).

I am considering to order 1 unit of each.

too late @Searing ^^

well, I just ordered one Sia-Obelisk. I'm already happy if I get the investment back :D

On the Obelisk site, they mention that the OSC1 can only mine SC and DCR1 can only mine Decred.

I was wondering if they can each mine any other coin that share the same algo (Blake2B and Blake256R14, respectively), assuming that any other coin with same algo would come to exist (none yet that I know)?

If yes, anyone have insight into new altcoins coming out with these same algos?

Otherwise, the Obelisks seem pretty one-trick pony types.

Yep...1 trick ponies....from what I heard that is the way they are doing such..each one only mines decred or siacoin specifically...

1 unit does only decred....the other unit only does siacoin....to mine both decred and siacoin you have to get 1 unit of each :(

Yes, thay clearly state this on the site. Miners can mine only one algo.   Baikal, as it turns out, is able to mine both coins ?  :-\

Yeap that what i have done.

One of each, so far we can say this.

Obelisk give projection about income in coin for SC1 & DCR1 with 4k miner sell of each.

150k sia per month / 27 DCR per month.

Actually Obelisk dont sell all miner on first batch.

3600 for SC1 / 3000 for DCR

Was other miner on market ( baikal only for moment but is not released yet )

Safe projection we can say at least 110k-120k SIA per month and i bet 27 DCR per month to. ( cause we have to add concurrence )

When batch 2 will inc on market everything will be halved i presume.

On my personal position i prefer to wait new gen and enjoy this one with my coupon ;)

You can use this site to calculate that: http://www.sialytics.com (http://www.sialytics.com) Make sure you add the batches you estimate will be sold.

Very nice link, thanks!   Though I did not find information there how do they calculate future difficulty.  Any idea?

The wait time is so freaking long so it makes it pretty sick gamble. I do not envy those who bought bunch of obelisks in July 2017 and paid 1 BTC each lol.

do you mean that obelisks from batch 1 were selling in July 2017 ?

They mine each only 1 algo  as they are ASIC''s

Baikal miners are FGPA. So they usually mine several different algos, at lower efficiency.

Guys, can someone explain me one thing? In 9 Aug. 2017 this miner cost $2499 and have hashrate 100 GH/s (url №1), but now it cost $1599 and have hashrate 800 GH/s url №2). So what's the catch?
http://skrinshoter.ru/i/130118/UZaFfwIc.png (http://skrinshoter.ru/i/130118/UZaFfwIc.png)

http://skrinshoter.ru/i/130118/xOfAsrYQ.png (http://skrinshoter.ru/i/130118/xOfAsrYQ.png)

They did not know exact hashrate before they really started to produce chips and test them, and put as little as possible, to be not overestimated.  They wrote previously, if i remember correctly, that hashrate would be increased after they saw real numbers.

Thus, at the moment, we are promised 150,000 Sia per month, and at the current Sia price it is $10K per month. And this at the price of an asik is only 1599 dollars. Is not it too good?

Just a heads up:

In the spirit of sharing information to those interested I just got an email from Obelisk Customer support today (JAN 13 2018) in regards to a hardware specific question in relation to PSU specs etc...  and was told:

"Unfortunately we have not finalized all the design aspects of our units..."

My translation:

We haven't finished even designing our units yet so production is many months away. My next question would be in relation to ordering parts for production etc.... and if they are even available in a timely fashion.

Been in the hardware vertical before and I know there are many challenges in this space around parts availability and delivery.

to answer my own question:

"The Obelisk software will likely use a Stratum server, and so should be compatible with another coin using Blake2b pool that uses Stratum."

well my reply to fishing for info on PSU's internal or external or whatever

they NOW say they will be EXTERNAL (see below)

this is the reply

Hello Brad,

Our PSU will be external to the Obelisk. We are guaranteeing it to be 500 watts or less, unfortunately we do not have any efficiency information at this time, but it is our goal to deliver an efficient PSU.

You are more than welcome to use your PSU if it is compatible with the Obelisk, but all of our Obelisk ship with the PSU so we do not have a way to shipping you one without it.

We have not yet finalized our design so I cannot give any specific details on the specifications of the Obelisk or the PSU, this information will be available before our first batch ships.

I hope this helps, please let me know if you have any more questions.


Thanks,

Grant Crawford
Customer Specialist


I am NOT happy that they have not gotten the case and psu design set etc...USUALLY an ASIC maker (while waiting the 3 or 4 months to see if the chip MASK has set and the chips

are good) takes that time to design the case/ psu or whatever THUS the only thing the mnfg has to do when the chips are legit is wait to get them...then slap the units togther

and out the door

the HOPE that obelisk folk were saying they could get something out in March/April, now IMHO is now shot....they MAY get it out by their orignal July 2018 deadline

but I know of at least 2-3 ASIC miners, that had the problem where they DID get the chips and DID get the boards...but the cases or the psu's sub contractors screwed them

over and they lost 3 months shipping...they were then hostage to the subcontractors of this ...

so....anyway, if their supply line on case and psu works out they are probably golden...if for some reason they get caught by subcontractors i'll be more than annoyed

this is 'build a rig' 101 for crying out loud....

Also, I am PROBABLY going to get Bitmain PSU units for my obelisk units.....simply because they are probably overkill for PSU's needed (now that they are going to be external) and
they have a 1-year warranty

just to be safe...if/when the obelisk PSU"s arrive I can flip them on eBay and be more or less even on such

Pandaminer from friends got screwed on cheap psu's when included with their units and I've heard of other stuff

so if you have the cash there is little risk you can always flip the bitmain units if you like the obelisk PSU's but you know how it is.....everything is covered and then

you suddenly can't get a PSU anyplace! (been there, done that)

anyway, my hedge on these being confirmed as external PSU's

brad

I also got Obelisk to up date their sales counters on their website.

If you are going to show numbers.... make them real and up-to-date.

New numbers as of Jan 15 2018:

DCR1:     1,095 sold

SCI:        1,585 sold

** EOF **

so when I got my original 1st batch of sc-1's the hash rate was 100mh now it is 800mh...so all that batch and new stuff

can you blow a coin up...to being worthless...simply because everyone turns their machines on at the same time?

The sia folk told me my orders did NOT matter in dates/time per batch..they will ship all the stuff at once

interesting situation..I saw a patch for KNC scrypt miners to scrypt-n protocol ...in 2015....and blew up and destroyed all worth of scrypt n coins in a week!

but, my bet is not on the coin price, but the protocol for storage...so we should be all right..correct....(scared self with above)

@Searing

Good call but Bitmain appear sold out .... for now.

https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020170627175024105t4k8SjM5067C

This would tie in nicely to my 240v PDU's.

**EOF**

And quit scaring self and potentially others and focus on the underlying SIA tech.....

How many coins out there have some perceived value and yet no tech backing it?

Coins with out any underlying tech reminds me of the DOTCOM bubble .... and we know how that went over (Wikipedia it if any one doesn't know)

Have a website? Own a DOTCOM.... No business plan? No worries! Here is $10MM in VC/sheep monies !

 ;D

**EOF**

so I just started mining this coin, are you saying that its not worth mining this coin with my 1 1070 because there are savages with those big loud hot bitcoin machines that its to hard and I only get like 1 a day or something?

No that is not what is being said. The Asic SIA miners are not slated for release until July 2018.

Until then, GPU mine away. You should see an increase in SIA coins that you mine as of Jan 21 2018.

oh ok, and when the asic miners come out, a po miner like me with 1 1070 doesnt stand a change right?

what happens on jan 21 2018? why will I be seeing more coins?

Sia HardFork Jan 21 2018

https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/7p9ll1/summary_of_the_upcoming_sia_hardfork_block_139000/

When Asics hit the market, GPU will be theoretically obsolete.

Nobody got the memo on the Giant-B? GPU mining of DCR, SIA, LBRY and Pascal is dying right now.

more on my question with the Sia-Obelisk:

"Raiblocks isn't a Proof of Work coin, it's uses a different technique for consensus called a direct acyclic graph.  It does use the Blake2b hash function, but not as a form of consensus, so the speed of an ASIC is not of any use for RaiBlocks.  A normal CPU implementation of Blake2b is just fine."

So - the Sia-Obelisk is probably going to be able to join any Blake2b pool, but there is currently no other coin than Sia.

you could be right...I'm doing this as a 25% gamble above and beyond what I likely will pay the tax man this year

50% tax rate and 25% equip deduction applied to taxes I know I will pay otherwise above this

on the other hand

with crypto dumping in price I may be outsmarting myself this year and my risk on equip is more than 25% above

if income is less than my expected (and last years) 50% mining rate 40% and 10% state tax)

so I may be on the wrong end of this idea

but yeah, this all could be unicorn farts equip wise....

as to more equipment as a hedge on price dropping...not sure if I am in the game for that now ...due to you guessed it

price dropping for crypto

ah...crypto....always the drama (and confusion)

"Nobody got the memo on the Giant-B"

The Giant B is Vapor Ware as of this writing as far as I know.... no units on the market as of this post nor any idea on when they will be ready.

https://www.baikalminer.com/product10.php

Pricing for some pre-sales at $20k for 80/GH ... I'll pass on this thanks.

https://asicminermarket.com/product/baikal-miner-giant-b/

Rumour has it SIA Group is communicating with Netflix and probably/hopefully others.....

Personally, I am into it for the long hall and bought 6 /SCI-1.

No risk.... no reward  :-)

Gotta play the game to win!

yeah I got 5 coming 1st batch

was thinking of getting 5 more with my coupons

now not so sure....last week as a hedge if crypto went down I thought about it ..but stalled

will have to re-think this before the end of the month deadline

right now updating LTC wallet to panic sell some LTC for the tax man (ouch) and hoping coinbase does not choke

as it has in the past

fun times......

not

now if the price was to jump back to 14k again on a rebound with the same drama/fud etc coming and going

hell, I might go back to 5 units more again (what to get decred or sia or mix no idea)

but as of now in crypto dump mode..not too attractive as a hedge to me anyway (missed that boat last week)

I did the math and calc/projection on Decred and couldn't justify it and opt'd to buy into SCI-1 more for the same price point.

Better potential ROI. Just my instinct.

Looking to reinvest into SIA-GEN-2 if all works out on this....

yeah that is my thoughts...IF siacoin makes it ..IT WILL NOT be due to the price and speculation of this coin..it will be due to the

ASIC network and their decentralized anon storage solutions at 10c to Amazon's $1.00 in pricing

with the amount of siacoin generated..that is the ONLY way such an ASIC network can pump out that many coin

for this whole idea to make sense

anyway my (likely clueless) interpetation of this

now do I man up and get some more machines with my coupon...or sit like I have today and watch the FUD and

crypto prices dump as I sit an pucker up tighter and tighter

fun retirement I started yesterday (yep thats what did it, me retireing due to crypto etc, I broke the works)

sorry about that

(what do they say about 'timing is everything' ..If I'd done this LAST WEEK as least I could have 'gloated' for a week)

This is in no way any advice on investing... my preamble.... BUT

If I was sitting on that many coupons I would possibly wait for GEN-2 and get a couple then and get 1 batch 2 in the short term....then hurry up and wait LOL.

Is gen-2 this 2nd batch that we have to buy by the end of this month ...Jan 31st 2018?

or

is it beyond that batch


and hell, remember sia folk said that the coupons were good for the NEXT batch...I wonder if that means

ONLY the next batch after 1st batch..the stuff that ends at the end of this month

was stalling looking at doing anything till the 25th or so

now alas have to actually THINK about stuff

damn it

No guarantee and I wouldn't bank on this thought.

If it is possible BONUS! If not, cest la vie..

Gen-2 (SCI-2) are the units they speak of that will be 2x-10x more GH and slated for Jan 2019.

Batch 2 of SC-1 ends at end of month..... as of this post unless they change it.

I think the coupons are good for any PRODUCT they make there after..... unless I misread.

And what's with the 360 sec wait I have to do on this site before I can post again?

Very odd.

to get out of newbie status you have to get 30 posts I think it is?

or the lag

also you can't post pics I think

and any msgs you pm have CAUTION THIS PERSON MAY BE A NEWBIE SCAM or some such

I got to be out of my frigging mind buying 5 1st batch obelisks and they now want me to get 5 1/2 off

obelisks and you say that they have 2nd gen obelisks for jan 2019

yeah, sh*t this could not end badly right...I mean actually considering ordering a 2nd batch of asic units

when the first batch won't arrive till July 2019

what could go wrong?

FML

Hmmmm......

Let's revisit the time line of release just for clarity sake - as the SIA/Obelisk peeps claim.

SCI-1 Batch 1:   July ish 2018

SCI-1 Batch 2:   Aug ish 2018

SCI-1 Batch 3:   Oct ish 2018



SCI-2 (next gen 2x-10x increase in GH):  Jan ish 2019

I have received 2 of the Giant-B today, I can confirm it's not a vaporware, first batch price was around $3,500. They're being setup at my mining location tomorrow.

re-read above my reply is

Ack!

(what could go wrong..buying a unicorn herd that far in advance?)

Interesting if valid. Thanks for the update.

@80GH.... enjoy for a few months.... until we come online ;)

@Searing

I hear you loud and clear.

Unicorn investments could be a good angle ;)

Well, when BFL in 2013 never shipped, I was able to write it off my taxes like equip (loss) with the CPA in 2013..when by dumb

luck a week before SEC closed them down in 2014 I think it was? , I got a refund and had to report that as income

so if all goes tulips.....well..thus the logic of the 1st 5 units as an IF btc tanks hedge this last summer

(not...I mean NOT my wisest move...the above last summer get 5 obelisks hedge) :(

It's my opinion the SC1 would do far better to generate profit compared to the DCR1 given SIA hasn't jumped in price yet.  Lots of headroom to turn those coins into $1 per than Decreed going to $200 per.  Batch 2 sale ends on the 31st of January.

Obelisk is USA based and under US law.

If they don't deliver, they must refund and the entire SIA project would be auto-tanked and never recover.

All in or all out basically.

Just my thoughts....

I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow.

Sure thanks.

Just a heads up.... you wont be able to post the pics and have a 360sec wait between posts on this forum until you hit 30 posts so I am told....

What a  silly little rule *sigh*

You're able to post the links to the images, but the images won't show until you get a Jr. Member (30 posts/activity). It's to lower the amount of spam & scam, works fine imho.
Either way, I'll post the links to the images tomorrow at least!

Well, maybe but did you read their "Terms"?  Says you give up the right to a Class Action lawsuit if you enter the preorder.  
Always read up before you invest.

Legallity goes both ways in the U.S..

Fair enough but.... in business.... if you don't have credibility as a smallish company... you won't get  far and the coin would end up as coin dust.

No one would back it seriously. Ie. Netflix etc....

And I see that is the end game here not the coin value persay.

this was not the case with BFL in 2015 I think it was..the corporation went bankrupt...the owners were protected..kept

all the BTC they mined with pre-order money for more than a year ( I say a year because no reinvest new product and

no shipping) and the max fine ONE of them got was 30k..... the rest of it went to the SEC to settle

they walked completely

nothing has changed in USA law to change this..they are protected by being a corporation and were NOT prosecuted with

BFL corp taking the fall


so hosed...

they were based out of Kansas I think

brad

was talking about sia miners..but happy to look at your baikal pictures of unicorns :)

Found the Baikal unicorn!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2595145.0;all

After reading all of the posts, I am still to find one non-reseller or dealer with any actual units and Baikal is claiming sold out.

I find it interesting that the reseller cannot get any units except of course his personal units he is selling at $15k USD post-crash LMAO....

I stand my ground on Vapor Scam/Ware  for the Baikal units.

Buyers totally beware!