KNC, 100% of their hashing is currently going into their own pocket.

[shapemaker]

... And I suppose some things are just unknowable.

Maybe it's related to Stockholm Syndrome? Or the battered wife thingy?

[As an aside: If you think a thread is dumb it's best to stop posting in it so that it can fall down the page!]

Mmm... I'm starting to see why you made this thread

[RoadStress]

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

Uh. I direct your attention to the first post in this thread:

I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers.

AFAIK, at this point most of this sub-forum has sworn off doing business with Avalon in the future.

I comment generally pretty infrequently. Consider the responses here if you wonder why.  I said at the outfront that I was being a bit intentionally inflammatory about it, but I do think that its a sad state that we've created an environment where the community takes all the risk of the NRE in building a mining device and the end result is these consolidations which undermine the value of that investments. KNC is but one example of it— and not the worst, but with all the claims of how much integrity KNC has, perhaps its the best example that the community here tolerates the behavior rather than something exploitative. Take it for what you will.

Besides, everyone knows that I'm secretly YipYip and Crumbs.

So you are targeting KNC just because they claimed to have some integrity compared to Avalon and BFL who didn't claim anything and they treated their customers like shit. You aren't targeting retard Inaba who still hasn't honored his lost bet about the power consumption in order to attract more fools (http://www.bitcoindf.org/ 493 BTC still owed and it doesn't even matter it's not a real charity).

You say that you aren't targeting Avalon because most of this sub-forum has sworn to not do business with them anymore, but i don't understand why don't you let this sub-forum do the same thing with KNC if they feel they have been tricked. Also you give this warning after more than 3 companies have already raised up money for their NRE costs (HashFast, Cointerra and Bitmine, maybe VMC and maybe some other companies that i don't recall) Maybe Bitfury too, but i'm not sure where all the hashing from ghash.io comes.

I don't even want to start about the large amount that they mined (sarcasm), but i would like to make you read again Vorksholk's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305447.msg3274263#msg3274263 and specifically to this quote:

Direct quote from KnCMiner Website: "We will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate we sell, and we will never mine with customer hardware."

Considering that they mine with under 5% your point isn't valid from the start so what are we actually doing here? Letting people know that they keep their promises?

[itod]

Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

You'd be surprised how easy is to get that urinary infection on this forum. Me for instance got decent yellow button in a few days for a few posts claiming some obvious things about KnC in main KnC thread. It was worth it, learned a lesson never to speak to a deaf ear on the internetZ.

[k9quaint]

urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button

Why have you summoned me!

[ScaryHash]

Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.

just because avalon did it doesn't make it okay for KnC to do it.

Eligius has gone parabolic over the last month. From 20 TH/s to 60 TH/s as of a few weeks ago.

Pretty astounding actually.

Gives you a good example of where hashrate is going. To frigging Uranus.

[YipYip]

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

Uh. I direct your attention to the first post in this thread:

I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers.

AFAIK, at this point most of this sub-forum has sworn off doing business with Avalon in the future.

I comment generally pretty infrequently. Consider the responses here if you wonder why.  I said at the outfront that I was being a bit intentionally inflammatory about it, but I do think that its a sad state that we've created an environment where the community takes all the risk of the NRE in building a mining device and the end result is these consolidations which undermine the value of that investments. KNC is but one example of it— and not the worst, but with all the claims of how much integrity KNC has, perhaps its the best example that the community here tolerates the behavior rather than something exploitative. Take it for what you will.

Besides, everyone knows that I'm secretly YipYip and Crumbs.

So you are targeting KNC just because they claimed to have some integrity compared to Avalon and BFL who didn't claim anything and they treated their customers like shit. You aren't targeting retard Inaba who still hasn't honored his lost bet about the power consumption in order to attract more fools (http://www.bitcoindf.org/ 493 BTC still owed and it doesn't even matter it's not a real charity).

You say that you aren't targeting Avalon because most of this sub-forum has sworn to not do business with them anymore, but i don't understand why don't you let this sub-forum do the same thing with KNC if they feel they have been tricked. Also you give this warning after more than 3 companies have already raised up money for their NRE costs (HashFast, Cointerra and Bitmine, maybe VMC and maybe some other companies that i don't recall) Maybe Bitfury too, but i'm not sure where all the hashing from ghash.io comes.

I don't even want to start about the large amount that they mined (sarcasm), but i would like to make you read again Vorksholk's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305447.msg3274263#msg3274263 and specifically to this quote:

Direct quote from KnCMiner Website: "We will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate we sell, and we will never mine with customer hardware."

Considering that they mine with under 5% your point isn't valid from the start so what are we actually doing here? Letting people know that they keep their promises?

++ AGreed

When u did nothing with all the BFL bullshit that was flying around u tried to claim u where Switzerland & did not get involved in what 80%+ of the community reagarded as Untrustworthy if not outright fraud on sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many ocassions it was a joke

Now u pop your head up over a test mine within their stated goals of 5% and also seems like a practical way to test and be verified

I really think all the fear over Knc is that the are "THE ONE" and all you scam loving sycophants BFL/AVALON.....  are now running scared over a company that may  have some integrity ...I have always said whoever treats their customers fairly will OWN btc

Time will tell......

P.S Good work on totally ruining your rep in 1 post 

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Maxwell is brilliant.

Maxwell is sad.

Mawell's snarkiness soothes him in the face of the Universe's inequities and disrespect for genius.

Maxwell is not self-aware.

Maxwell is on record as a cornerstone of bitcoin development, integrity, durability, professionalism, objectivity, and neutrality.

Outsiders, casual observers, interested power players, newbies, and historians will read Maxwell's comments, link those comments to his power position in the Bitcoin uinverse, and draw their own conclusions.

Maxwell doesn't care.

[YipYip]

urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button

Why have you summoned me!

Yes I demand to be ignored ...lolz

And in tern I will ignore you...

It will be a IGNOREOFF

[Biomech]

Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

You'd be surprised how easy is to get that urinary infection on this forum. Me for instance got decent yellow button in a few days for a few posts claiming some obvious things about KnC in main KnC thread. It was worth it, learned a lesson never to speak to a deaf ear on the internetZ.

Why you?

I probably was about fifty percent in agreement with you on the thread, but I never thought you posted anything particularly outrageous or "ignore" worthy.

Then again I got a pretty thick skin I only ignored one person, because they never had anything to contribute. Even if your argument is valid, typing the same two sentences ad infinitum gets old.

Woops, before I get called on it, only ignored one user on that thread. Total of two, and second admitted they were just trolling.

[itod]

Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

You'd be surprised how easy is to get that urinary infection on this forum. Me for instance got decent yellow button in a few days for a few posts claiming some obvious things about KnC in main KnC thread. It was worth it, learned a lesson never to speak to a deaf ear on the internetZ.

Why you?

I probably was about fifty percent in agreement with you on the thread, but I never thought you posted anything particularly outrageous or "ignore" worthy.

That's because you like to hear some opposite arguments to form an opinion, but some people don't like to have an opinion. They like to be in a herd an only hear the noise of their own herd.

Let's put this thread to oblivion of no new posts update, few were interested in gmaxwell's arguments.

[Biomech]

Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

You'd be surprised how easy is to get that urinary infection on this forum. Me for instance got decent yellow button in a few days for a few posts claiming some obvious things about KnC in main KnC thread. It was worth it, learned a lesson never to speak to a deaf ear on the internetZ.

Why you?

I probably was about fifty percent in agreement with you on the thread, but I never thought you posted anything particularly outrageous or "ignore" worthy.

That's because you like to hear some opposite arguments to form an opinion, but some people don't like to have an opinion. They like to be in a herd an only hear the noise of their own herd.

Let's put this thread to oblivion of no new posts update, few were interested in gmaxwell's arguments.

Mr. Maxwell has been nothing but cool to me, so I took it in the spirit offered. I disagree with his conclusion, as what they have done isn't egregious. I don't disagree with his observation in general. Those that jumped him for the policies of the operator of the forum have an axe to grind with someone else. My axe is unrelated to the forum, since I'm a fuckin' rebel by any definition you care to root out.

But yes, I like to hear all sides of an argument before weighing in. I frequently have my own take that ain't on any "set" side. Probably how I wound up an anarchist (and much earlier, captain of the debate team)

[Bitcoinorama]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

[dropt]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

Every other vendor has been chastised to hell and back for this very thing.  It just wouldn't be "right" not to harass them for it.  Not that I care one way or another.

[itod]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

Testnet is as real-world hashing environment as mainnet. Hashing is hashing, the only difference is number of blocks solved which is unimportant for testing. You should know that. These boxes aren't their's to mine on mainnet. If they devoted 5% of machines to themselves and never sold them, that's OK to mine with them, it's their property. But with other people's property it's not OK and no late-thought-of charity donations will make it right.

[ASIC-K]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

Testnet is as real-world hashing environment as mainnet. Hashing is hashing, the only difference is number of blocks solved which is unimportant for testing. You should know that. These boxes aren't their's to mine on mainnet. If they devoted 5% of machines to themselves and never sold them, that's OK to mine with them, it's their property. But with other people's property it's not OK and no late-thought-of charity donations will make it right.

lol you're an idiot

[idee2013]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

+100

[itod]

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

Testnet is as real-world hashing environment as mainnet. Hashing is hashing, the only difference is number of blocks solved which is unimportant for testing. You should know that. These boxes aren't their's to mine on mainnet. If they devoted 5% of machines to themselves and never sold them, that's OK to mine with them, it's their property. But with other people's property it's not OK and no late-thought-of charity donations will make it right.

lol you're an idiot

Not as big as you since you can't even explain your thinking.

[Syke]

I would not buy a miner that hadn't proven itself mining on the real net. Testnet is not the same.

[gmaxwell]

I would not buy a miner that hadn't proven itself mining on the real net. Testnet is not the same.

Mining testnet is a very similar workload to mining shares on a pool. If you were saying you wanted to see a solved high difficulty block— that would be another matter. A technically superior test would be to mine recently completed mainnet blocks to verify that the device would actually submit solutions.  As it'll be quite awesome when, intentionally or otherwise, some mining asic has a "bug" that causes it to lose some percentage of its full solutions but not its shares... widespread deployment of such a device would probably put every pool out of business in a few days.

[Aside: I'm only bothering to reply to this thread because it's currently on top]

[CrazyRabbi]

the knc wars starts spreading/infecting to other threads. why is knc so polarizing ? because it is a threat ? to whom ?
some aspects of this bitcoin stuff is way beyond economics. it´s getting religious.

I'd certainly like to understand this better... though it's offtopic for the thread.  It's not unique to KNC, e.g. we saw it with BFL.  But I think we've mostly not seen it with hashfast or cointerra.  I've speculated before that some people are afraid of getting ripped off and have to aggressively back their own horse to justify themselves, but even that is incomprehensible to me. Then again, I don't really get team-sports fandom either.

... And I suppose some things are just unknowable.

The title of this thread is true for a certain value of truth. I.e.: 100%=1 unit.

Well, it's true until they actually get a box in someones hands. I was explicit about it and said it was a bit pedantic. Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

[As an aside: If you think a thread is dumb it's best to stop posting in it so that it can fall down the page!]

Arn't you the guy that admitted to having incestual sexual intercourse with his sister?