Bitcoin Forum

SIGNED MESSAGE: THIS IS MOREAI, THE REAL ONE: 1NXptrkTgeQf7KCNjzYzA1EQxs9rGsUbUf
G1E54lspnvlI1j9akTd3VTW+3ap9Vz5Fw6NcKfpJaKL8IHlF68/WOmFutlUYAHPTQan+hcSYIMdI2k3O2AjMvWw=
SIGNED MESSAGE: THIS IS MOREAI, THE REAL ONE (LOAN RECEIPT ADDRESS): 1AbPEJEGeuvXDoD2qGeYf8P5TB6nwseNrQ
HIeV6UEWWjsHaiOgJZMFBKGMuHBl/sB4V/Fh9x8zxyC2f8Jt/cAJZDworJMX0Qtyr/4WZyZmA69qTt6z0bhDDOE=

MY ACCOUNT WAS JACKED WHILE IN REDSN0WS POSSESSION, I HAVE NOT LOGGED IN SINCE I RECEIVED THE LOAN!!!!
I STILL HAVE THE .8BTC BUT IT IS NOT DUE UNTIL 6 MORE DAYS!!!!

READ THE BELOW QUOTES

Redsn0w ADMITTED to taking control of my account. He had control BEFORE lihuajkl sent me the loan, BEFORE THESE STUPID POSTS WERE MADE. This is the real moreia and I can sign my address that I received the loan with if you like. After this point in time where I confirmed I received the loan with this alt, I was offline. CHECK MY ACCOUNT ACTIVITY
I've woken up to my account destroyed. I don't know if redsn0w is responsible or what, but I can teamview this PM with anyone and you will see redsn0w confirmed that my account went into his possession.

PLEASE, I have the .8BTC loan, I am keeping it for one week like promised and returning. But PLEASE understand I did NOT try to scam my account back!!

I AM GLAD redsn0w got my account back, but I want it transferred to another escrow for both of our security. That WAS NOT me who posted, please read these PM's I beg you!!


THAT IS NOT MY EMAIL !!! YOU AND DEVTHEDEV BOTH KNOW THAT IS NOT MY EMAIL MY EMAIL IS NOT THAT IT STARTS WITH DZERO!!!


THE DEAL SHOULD BE CARRIED ON AS NORMAL!!! I AM SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE LOAN FOR 6 MORE DAYS :((

Then skype me and prove it's you.
I believe you because you weren't online when it happened.

It is him, verified.

If you're telling the truth I should repay the loan first. Redsn0w is stressed out because of all the happenings, even if you're telling the truth.

MichaelAdair, you prove nothing by saying he came online on Skype. He could still be a scammer.

But it is not due for another 6 days?!!!!!
i need this loan for my project as I stated in my borrowing thread!! :(
I will have the interest and loan just like I promised by the end date, please, can we just continue this deal like normal :(
Why does everything have to go wrong on this forum, why are there so many cons. This is bullshit. All deals have been smooth now this last deal has been havoc. Why!?!

I have him on skype.
I have been working with him on a project and I just asked him if he saw his account feedback, and he seemed genuinely mad and it really sounded like it wasn't the real him. On skype he said that the ALT was indeed him, and he put a public note on the transaction signed with his name if that helps anything.
https://blockchain.info/tx/676b04628ad031eac84d8d91e77b80a73decf42e1d219431cf0019858b238a2b
I don't have much trust here but I can vouch for him that he does not have access to the account.

That doesn't matter, just repay. You are aware of what happened. Repay the loan because of all the happenings and then you'll get your account back and eventually the mods can recover your account to its original state.

Redsn0w should get the account until the repayment of the loan.

I don't think it would be appropriate  for Moreia to have to adhere to different terms just because the escrow messed up.

Redsn0w already owns the account right now. But Redsn0w wants Moreia to repay ASAP because of this whole situation, and I can completely understand why. I don't know why you 2 can't.

Moreia did nothing wrong, it obviously was not him and he chose the loan for 6 days cause he knew he could repay it by then. What if he can't pay it back now??

THANK YOU QUICKSELLER, THIS is not my fault  :( :( :(

NO i need this loan for my project, this situation should have been smooth. I will try to repay a few days early if I can BUT I NEED THIS for my project.
I AM NOT REPAYING UNTIL IT IS DUE. I HAVE MY OWN FINANCES TO TAKE CARE OF RIGHT NOW, YOU CANNOT SIT HERE AND BLAME ME FOR THIS WHEN IT IS REDSNOWS FAULT. I PROVIDED ALL EVIDENCE THIS WAS NOT ME, REDSNOW HAD POSESSION OF MY FUCKING ACCOUNT!!!
I WAS OFFLINE WHEN ALL THIS OCCURED, ASK MICHAEL AND WILLIAM I HAVE NOT BEEN ON SKYPE TILL NOW!


I TYPED A BS EMAIL IN BEFORE THE ACCOUNT WENT INTO ESCROW sfdsfsfsfs@mail.com  and REDSNOW DID NOT CHANGE THE EMAIL. IT IS SOME RANDOM, I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS REAL!!!
I THINK HE IS LYING. HE MADE THIS account as I AM SURE I DID HOTMAIL I NEVER USE MAIL.COM

REDSNOW PLEASE TELL US THE TRUTH!! I EMAILED YOU FROM MY EMAIL OVER 20 TIMES WHY DO YOU THINK THIS TIME WAS ANY DIFFERENT!!!!

THERE ARE TO MANY FLAWS IN YOUR ARGUMENTS AND STATEMENTS, PLEASE, TELL US THE TRUTH :(

I just want my account back to normal when I repay this loan. I am still going to repay in the few days for the loan, just please if anyone needs proof add me on skype: moreia.bitcointalk MICHAEL CAN CONFIRM this is the real me so PLEASE help

BECAUSE I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SITUATION YOU FUCKING IDIOT. REDSNOW SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PROPER CONTROL LIKE HE SAID HE DID IN THE PM's THIS IS NOW MY FAULT BUT I HAVEN"T EVENT DONE ANYTHING!! THIS IS REDSNOWS FAULT, NOT MINE!! WHY SHOULD I SUFFER FOR HIS MISTAKE!

Well, it would be more appropriate to continue doing business when all problems are solved. He then may be able to loan his 0.8 again. Who says this alt account can be trusted? There's a chance it will get worse if he doesn't repay and gains access to his account.

By the way, it's quite coincidental that your account gets hacked while it's being hold in escrow? The scammer tried anything to get rid of his bad reputation, you seem to continue with that behavior by being very immature.

Why are you involving him?

I know , but when you gave me your forum account in collateral I found this email : 

sfdsfsfsfs@mail.com


So I didn't change it , maybe we can ask theymos (because someone has recovered the password through the email).



https://bitcointalk.org/seclog.php

BECAUSE HE HAS DONE AN ESCROW WITH MY VIA THAT EMAIL BEFORE!! that is the only email I ever use in assosciation to my bitcointalk account


No, he definitely will not, it is pretty much assured I am never getting a loan from this community again thanks to redsnow
I am repaying when it is due or a bit earlier

As for anyone reading this thread...CHECK THE TIME REDSNOW SAID HE WAS IN CONTROL OF THE ACCOUNT AND THEN WHEN THE ACCOUNT WENT ROGUE!!! THAT PROVES THIS IS NOT MY FAULT!



I JUST USED A BS EMAIL!! THAT IS NOT MINE. YOU KNOW THAT. IF YOU WERE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE ACCOUNT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FUCKING CHANGE THE EMAIL SO THE BORROWER CAN NOT RECOVER IT, YOU KNOW THIS STOP PLAYING GAMESS!!!!!!!

In the beggining all we tought the problem was the email (sfdsfsfsfs@mail.com) but now he told that is not his email, it is a very bad situation. However for security we can ask theymos or badBear.

Sorry for be offtopic, but i am so curious. Is this regular escrow ( or whatever service redsnow was doing) procedure, to give someone your forum account password?

theymos or badbear should be able to clear up this matter pretty easy.
The IP activity is being logged, if moreia and moreia_alt operate from the same IP then is it obvious a that this is a scam attempt.

I seriously doubt that theymos would get involved, but badbear might be able to post the information since he is monitoring this kinda of stuff when busting account farmers.

You told it was a random letters , but all we think it was a valid email at the end because I didn't change it and someone has recovered the password through it.


 ::)

It's Redsn0w's fault he didn't change the email yes, but you do understand that not a lot of people trust you as you are moriea's alt account? I think the best thing to do right now is to wait it out as you can't repay early. Redsn0w has to fix the problem with moirea's trust and if you don't repay Redsn0w will hand over the account to the person that loaned to you. This is the best solution in my opinion.

Again ...

read the post above yours.

Come on, it's obvious. ffs.

I read it correctly. I'm pointing out you did not change the email, that was your mistake. But I'm also saying, in order to solve all the problems, Moriea should repay (in a week if that's needed) and you should fix the account.

I SIGNED THE LOAN ADDRESS IN THE OP, WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!!!

At least he has control of my account, I hope this is all fixed by the time the loan is repayed. my fingers are crossed :(

I am 100% fine with all neg trusts staying as is now! As long as when I repay my loan I am back to where I originally was


you are laughing at peoples financial loss??

It is not my mistake , because he told that it was a random letters so the email wasn't valid ( I didn't change it) but someone has recovered the account through  it. So at the end the email is valid , and it is not mine because I didn't change it.

As a professional escrow, you yourself should try and fix his account, take it back under your control. And wait for the week to end when he pays.

But you should change the email at all times, even if a person says it's not valid. You see what happened because of it. It's like keeping someones account in escrow with a handed over blindly typed password believing the person really did blindly type the password.

Yes you made a mistake by not changing it..who cares what he said. You lost control of something you were escrowing. Let's see what the admins say about the ip's. Morea should not have to pay early...he should pay according to the loan terms.

But you should of changed it!! If I knew you were not going to change it i would have told you that its just bs letters!!
that means it is a valid address and someone used it to recover the account or some bs like this.
I didn't know it was valid, I expected you to change it as usuall!!
thank you so much blazed
I am glad to see people are not all cracking it at me, and are actually understanding this is not my fault


No you are wrong already
get the fuck out you idiot stop clogging this thread with your bullshit for your sig campaign
reported

Well get it paid back and you should be all set, but with all this your account is probably ruined.

So I made a mistake and he is a liar because  ( ~ 10-15 min ago ) he told me :
https://i.imgur.com/TWochEA.png

 ( but it is a valid email)

Or maybe am I wrong ? 

Well you are the escrow so you guarantee the collateral..had you changed it this wouldn't have happened. Not saying you are a liar...you just made a mistake is all.

He's looking to repay the loan after the 6 days... why would he try and take his account back early?
Be professional Redsn0w and finish you escrow job or people won't take you seriously later on.

For what purpose would one hack his account while it's held in escrow?

I don't know , but it is a very bad situation.  However let see what will happen.

Instead of let's see... how bout you get the neg trust off the account...
Take action.

It does not look that bad:

Vod 32: -0 / +18(18)   2015-01-01   0.00000000   Reference   Did not pay back a 0.88 BTC loan.
grue 0: -0 / +0(0)   2015-01-01   0.00000000   Reference   paying for negative trust. archive link in case he edits it: https://archive.today/swMvs

I don't know about the grue guy (he is nobody in terms of trust), but Vod is a reasonable person, you should get him to remove the trust, so the item you keep in escrow can be repaired.

Having an email with a domain that does not offer email services is the best route to take. I assume that gmai.com is not a website that offers email services so it would be impossible to recover an account via email (if this was true). The best practice would be to have changed the email address to moreia@bitcointalk.org because we know that the forum does not offer email services and that no one can register the domain to receive any emails sent to that address. Even if you changed the email to 6xM58yd@UvjAW.com someone could potentially register the domain UvjAW.com and recover the account if they knew what domain you were using.

Already done.. don't worry.

Okay, and sorry for being a little rude, just irritated a bit.

I don't understand what happened....sorry to butt in, but
I recently started escrowing accounts for people on microloans
and want to make sure this doesn't happen to me.

You set the email address to something "random" and someone
just guessed it?  Or what?  How was it hacked?

The email was not changed by the escrow.

I just missed one part: How did redsn0w regain control over the acc?

Then how did the hacker access it?  Then it should be the original email of
moreia still -- how would the hacker have access to it?

The email was : sfdsfsfsfs@mail.com  and maybe someone registered it or I don't know what  happened.

was it publicly displayed?

The troll posted this : https://i.imgur.com/qABTCrH.jpg   and I quickly changed the password , email & forum question.



Now  yes , before I don't think it was visible.

I have figured it out
Last escrow, you switched email privacy to Public to show the account was in escrow
I changed the email to random characters, someone on this forum saw it and tried to recover the account by registering the email and recovering the password
But how did you recover it??? Did you contact staff?? you said it yourself
This is both of our fault, you for not changing the email and me for not reverting email privacy back to
private
You still should have changed the email as that is standard procedure when doing an escrow service.
I still personally do not believe I am completely responsible for this. I am still a legitimate member and will pay the loan back when it is due. I don't see why I have to incur the .08 interest in less than 12 hours of getting the loan :(

I saw this as well, but did not take any actions.

Ahh I see...

1. So why didn't you change the email address when you got the account?

2. The account is still under rouge control?


edit: I see above what happened.

This is dumb...there is no need to make the address public to show its under escrow control...and you should always change it to a real email address you control just to be safe anyway.

no, redsn0w control the account now.

It was a random letters so I didn't change it , but I don't know how & why the "troll" recovered the password with the email.

The account is under my control : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=147832  check the signature and verify the signed message.

Yes as I wrote you in your personal email address , I've always changed the email, forum question &  password but this time I "forgot" or maybe don't think it was necessary; now I've contacted Vod and grue  I think he can remove the negative feedback  (because there isn't a reason to not do it) and I also have contacted badbear and he replied :

The account was unBanned , thanks to BedBear and the other forum members for the help.

excellent! thanks to all the helpful members of the community!

I'm sorry again for the mistake , this is the first time that I didn't change also the email and all we see what happened  :-\ .However now everything is going well.




I still want to know who recover the account  through the email? I only know he used tor...

You still need to get that neg trust off his account.

Well stuff happens snow..not that big of a deal. This will all fade away soon enough..you do have to admit someone pulled off an epic trolling!

Vod is offline , the other members removed the negative feedback.



Yes someone make me really trouble  ::) , but at the end with some luck  we have "fixed" all.

Am I the only one who finds it extremely unlikely that Moreia just happened to randomly attach an email to his account that someone related to Bitcointalk happened to own? Assuming it wasn't posted publicly, unless I'm missing something, the only two people who should have had access to the email name are Moreia and redsn0w. Are people really believing that some random third party was the culprit here? Come on.

Since redsn0w locked the other thread I figure I will post this here

I think it is somewhat suspicious that redsn0w logged into moreia's account via tor. I am not really sure why he would do that.

I do think this entire situation proves that redsn0w is not sufficiently competent to be handling escrow services and lacks the required judgment that people on default trust list should have  

Thanks for the opinion , I logged from tor for demonstrate to one of the two admin that I'm logged from that precisely IP. Maybe I could use a vpn , but for a question of rapidity I chose tor.

As I told before , that is the first time that I didn't change also the email , only because I've seen the random letters and I don't remember if it was public or not.


I'm think I'm sufficient competent, because I'm learning from my mistake/forgetfulness; but someone make me really trouble. Thanks again to the community.

This seems plausible.

On one of the many threads about this fiasco it was pointed out that the email was displayed publicly so someone could have hacked the email address that was displayed.

It looks like that redsn0w is censoring people criticizing his work in this situation by locking all the threads that are discussing this situation. I would think that most escrows would not do anything with accounts while they are holding them.

??? If you wanted to prove that you controlled the other account with IP evidence then you would log into the account with the same IP address.
Is the fact that an email address is public or not tracked (@badbear), if it can be verified that it was public (or if this is not tracked) then it is plausible some third party was behind this, if it can be verified that it was not public then the culprit was defiantly either moreia or you and you logged into the account the exact same way the person who was trolling logged in
If you are still learning then you are not competent (by definition). As mentioned above it is concerning that you are posting from an account you are controlling via escrow and effectively censoring criticism of your work

it was a mistake to make the email public and you should never be posting or messaging from an account under escrow IMO.

@charlieSeen , now what do you want ? Thanks to the community we have fixed my mistake , but the troll (maybe someone hate me or something like that) made me this epic trolling.

I'm not censoring no one, you can write whatever you want. I've locked those other topics for prevent the spam, useless post etc....


I only quoted the post with the repayment address as I always do and the troll make my really trouble.

You locked specific threads that reflected poorly on you/made you look bad. From my point of view you are trying to prevent people from bumping those threads so it will be more difficult for people to see what kind of job you did in this case.

The mistake was resolved because whoever was trolling, just so happened to publicly display their password when it got banned and because the people whose trust feedback carries any weight are reasonable

EDIT: I think you should leave the threads unlocked and allow whoever gets the account after the term of the loan expires to decide what happens to the threads/posts

At least now everything seems be sorted out! Let's wait until the end. If real Moreia repay the loan back, then we will be clear about everything!

I locked this topics:


- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=909632.0
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910686.0
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910833.0
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910711.0
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910999.0

     
Only for prevent the spam and useless post , here you can write whatever you want (don't worry ,at least stay "on topic"). In this case I forgot to hide the email (or better to change it)  and some one made all this epic trolling.


Yes I've signed a message from my address and they removed the negative feedback and after I've contacted BadBear and ask him to unBan the moreia's forum account. With the help of the community  and of the troll (password) everything is back to the normal.

That is exactly my point. That is 5 topics that reflect badly on you (you would probably make it 6 if you controlled the account that created this thread). Each of the threads had a different discussion so it would not be possible to participate in each of those discussions and stay on topic in this one thread.

It is not your job to stop spam posts, if someone posts spam in any of those threads you can report it and it will get deleted.

Having only one thread that reflects poorly on you is much less damaging then having two threads, each additional thread that makes you look bad hurts your reputation more then the prior one.

Like I said before you should leave them unlocked and let whoever ends up with control of the account after the loan is done to decide if they stay open or not

Hopefully U learned from this experience! As an professional escrow provider, u know ur reputation will be easily ruined by any simple mistake! 

The prevention is better , however now I should go offline now. Thanks again for the opinion , you can always don't post (you're not obligated to do it).

I disagree.  Change the email to a general escrow mailbox so that everyone can see the account is in escrow.

You can only have one account associated with a specific email address. You can change the personal message/signature to reflect the status of the account

i think this is pretty good solution!

nobody is perfect and if redsnow learns from it he will be a better escrow then before.

a happy new year everyone   ;)

In addition, using an email address under the control of the escrower is a safety mechanism in case the new password is forgotten , mistyped, or otherwise lost.

Is there proof of this?

I'm not sure what the exact communication between redsn0w and moreia was, but it appears moreia explicitly stated beforehand that the email was invalid and not under his control. Assuming redsn0w was not the one who set the account's email information to public, this is mostly moreia's fault. Anyone could have taken control of the account after he did this, even if redsn0w planned on changing the email in the future.

The proof is in this thread.

For as long Moreia was in control of his own account, his security settings are his concern and his concern only. When an escrow is holding collateral it is their responsibility to keep the collateral secure while they are holding it. This includes changing certain settings that would cause it to be vulnerable to getting hacked.

That does not count as proof, it is in moreia's best interest to have said that because it clears him of all responsibility for what was posted on his account. As theymos said, it is a plausible explanation, but I would not take moreia's word as proof. Keep in mind that redsn0w claims that he did not set the email to public, nor was it public when he received the account:


Also, please have the decency to respond on your charlieSeen account, even if you want to farm activity on both of them.

Red should pay 0.8 formthe fail,and we are done fo thisndrama

Why is this? He has recovered the collateral and will be returning it to moreia once he repays the loan in 6 days.

No,
I did not give permission to redsn0w nor did he notify me about changing the email settings to public
Besides, the rogue took place AFTER redsn0w took control meaning he should have changed the email in the first place as general escrow procedure
I am not at fault here. Im just grateful he recovered the account

So are you claiming that when you gave the password to redsn0w the email details were hidden/private? If this is the case and redsn0w agrees then this incident would fall entirely on him. If he disputes it then it would fall mostly on him, but still on you somewhat.

FWIW he does have the email set to be public although it is set to an email address that no one can potentially create

What happens when your mistakes/forgetfulness cost someone a lot of bitcoin or the admins don't step in (which they luckily did for you in this case) and the account is forever ruined or perma banned? Can and are you prepared to foot the bill? You need to take that into consideration because being an escrow isn't a responsiblity or worry-free job as people are depending on you for a smooth and safe transaction and you need to be able to guarantee this from your end.

From the looks of it many inexperienced traders seem to think that being escrow is a very easy job with zero responsibility nor worries. When people like Dabs or tomatocage handle an escrow a lot goes on behind the scenes that cannot be seen by the public.

I would say that you were essentially given a free pass in this situation and doubt that BadBear will make it a regular habbit to unban accounts that are suppose to be in your control.

There are people that will try to scam even when using escrow and it is up to the escrow to catch and stop these scams.

That's the only way to do it. If someone asks you to provide escrow for their transaction and you lose the collateral or fail to secure the transaction, you're responsible.

What I got from all this is that redsn0w previously held that account as collateral, set the email to public, returned it, did not change the setting back, so it's been public since then, and moriea was unaware. If that's what happened then that's a big failure on redsn0w's part, to change someone's account settings in that way and not return it to it's original settings as the owner left it, and not inform them.

It's also disturbing that redsn0w is taking it upon himself to close the original moriea's loan request thread, along with all the others, under the guise of stopping spam. Closing the fake moriea's threads is one thing, but closing moriea's own threads, and demanding the lender find another way to contact him is not cool at all.

I'm sure redsn0w is a nice guy and all, but he has shown poor judgement, incompetence, and is not fit to act as escrow. He got really lucky that things worked out the way they did. If moriea hadn't gotten banned, if he hadn't gave the account away, if he hadn't been unbanned, he would have been screwed. And the way he is going on blaming others, I'm sure he would have found a way to say it wasn't his fault and not paid up as he should have.

I think one thing that worked to redsn0w's advantage is that he did not have to answer the question of if he would make good on his mistake (although he was asked several times). His response seemed to be that it was an "involuntary" mistake ( ??? ). My interpretation of his response was that he did not plan on repaying the lender for his mistake.

I would say that even the fake threads did have legitimate conversation and would be appropriate to continue discussion. I personally have seen redsn0w spam more then anyone who had posted in any of the threads he locked (there really was not very much spam in any of the ones that I saw). I would almost say it would be appropriate for a mod to unlock the threads and to ban the account until it is time to release it to the proper owner (who depends on if the loan gets repaid), or alternatively changing escrows to someone like BadBear who is less likely to mess up (upon consent of both parties involved, which I would doubt they would have a problem with giving)

I would also agree that he is a very nice person, however the bitcoin world is cut-throat (even more so then the "real" world is) and people will be very willing to take advantage of one's incompetence.

Wait, he's closing threads started by others? How? Who is in control of what accounts now and who is the 'fake moriea'? The person who hacked the original account, but that account is now back under the control of redsnow?

Someone hacked Moriea's account and created bunch of threads that made redsn0w look bad. When redsn0w was eventually able to recover access to the account he locked the threads via the moreia account. A list of the threads is here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=911232.msg10007403#msg10007403)

Thanks for the opinion now all went smoothly, but I think I will never know who made all this epic trolling.

My first stupid mistake and someone tried to ruin my reputation, I don't know : why?

But it didn't go smoothly, did it? Far from it. You almost ruined your own rep by your own mistake so this can't be blamed on others. Escrows are used to protect against this sort of stuff.

Unfortunately this is the risk with providing escrow, which is why most charge a fee. I'm surprised yours is still free, but you seem to be aware of your responsibilities.

I didn't ruin my reputation I'm still here and providing my escrow service. If I was not "honest" yesterday I was not interested to solve the situation but I tried to resolve it and now all went smoothly.


I've always changed all the credentials but this time I forgot to do because I've seen random letters email.

moreia_alt can you sign a new message with a date of today from the btc address where you received the  loan (0.80 BTC)?

When you want to borrow some bitcoin, you will need to give some collateral to the lender except in rare cases that the lender trusts you so much. Since there is an active market of bitcointalk account, some lenders accept bitcointalk accounts as a form of loan collateral.

I was lending moreia before and I am watching this situation very carefully. There was written to much and I believe no one can exactly explain what happen and why. Except that one who was posting in name of moreia yesterday.

What I can confirm that in this Loan request: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=901169.0 everything went good. I was watching moreia's account in this period (it was under control of escrow that time) and he was off for couple of days until he re-payed to me.

I can confirm that moreia was using for repayment announcement this acount:
moreia_alt

I can't judge here, but I feel I need to post here just to share my good experience in contrast what I see now.

I said almost ruined. You're not providing much of a escrow service if things like this can happen. People use you to ensure things like this don't happen so it didn't go smoothly regardless of it all being worked out now. You can't fuck something up then claim it all went smoothly especially when someone else largely sorted it out for you. What happens when the admins don't have your back when you make another mistake, one that is more costly? Would you foot the bill out of your own pocket? And it's not about honesty, but trustworthiness. You obviously did what you had to do to try resolve the situation because you had to for the sake of your rep, but what will happen if you lost access to a higher ranked account and/or the funds? Would you be able to get yourself out of that unscathed? That's when we wil see how trustworthy you are. You got lucky this time but only really due to BadBear otherwise you would've been responsible for remedying the situation and repaying funds and we don't know whether you would or not, so again, the escrow didn't go smoothly here but the exact opposite.

You are right , this time all went smoothly thanks again for the community. Anyone can make a mistake in his life or is it not allowed ? The trustworthiness is a consequence of honesty, the next time I will not make this error again.

::) Are you being serious or is this just your way of dealing with criticism? Sometimes I don't know whether you're just a kid or incredibly naive. And please stop saying things went smoothly when they didn't. Things might have turned out ok in the end, but they didn't at all go smoothly. You need to comprehend this and what I'm saying. Yes, thanks to the community this issue was fixed, but you might not have that to fall back on next time and yes, people make mistakes but as an escrow you should be extra careful to ensure they don't, but my main concern is can you cover any potential future loses that might happen? I hope we don't ever have to find out. 

Now I took possession of the account so the "loan" can go ahead, I made a mistake... but this doesn't mean I'm not an honest person ( it was only a mistake) and someone made all this epic trolling.

I think this is my first mistake as escrow , and you right  " I  myself almost have ruined my reputation " whit this "stupid" error.

I do not make anymore  as escrow for the community due to my stupid mistake. Thanks  to all you guys , when moreia will repay the loan I will send him the access data of his account.

Nobody is perfect redsn0w.

You made a good job as a free escrow for the community, thanks in advance!

Actually you should just do your thing and further be a escrow for the community, I think nobody will charge you the mistake negatively.

its on you if anything happens, whatever the mistake or whatsoever , mistake is on you, good thing is the account is back on your possesion and we'll see if the real moreia will payout the loan or what story will go from now on

I know , however I've received a negative feedback from BedBear so now I'm not anymore an escrow and I hope he  and the other moderator (Eal F. Skillz) will remove the negative feedback.

Negative trust feedback was put to notify others that you have failed to do the job, however, I think just an untrusted feedback or a post on your escrow service thread was enough for this, so people looking will see it. I hope you won't stop the service because of this. :)

   ~~MZ~~

Thanks for your opinion , but Yesterday (and also now) I was very weary/tired  because I forgot to change the password and someone "hacked" the moreia's account.

 Now I don't want anymore to make as escrow, if you want you can contact devthedev or monbux.

There is no way to choose trusted/untrusted feedback, if the person who left the feedback is in your trustlist the feedback will show up as trusted. I personally think maybe a neutral trust is more appropriate in this situation, but if BadBear thinks he deserves a negative thats his choice and if people don't like it they have the option of removing BadBear from their lists.

I'm not saying you are dishonest but that would certainly come into question if you couldn't fulfil the terms of your escrow due to loss caused by a mistake on your part. This is partly why I don't offer escrow or wouldn't hold any large amounts or one I wouldn't be willing to comfortably cover if I screwed up and made a mistake (and we're all human and mistakes do happen but it's how we deal with those mistakes that define us). Just think what would've happened if you lost access to an expensive account and/or the funds? Would you be willing to cover several bitcoins out of your own pocket? These are the things you and others have to consider.

I don't have an answer for your question , but now It is not more a problem because I don't anymore make as escrow here. Troll if you are reading me , why have you did all this ?

Yes you are right

Oops really I was hurted. Im the fan of redsn0w and his free escrow service.
Please don't stop your free escrow service really nice job offered by you to this community

Thanks

I would say a negative trust is much more appropiate. His lack of a willingness to accept personal responsibility in this situation shows that he is not willing to cover any mistakes that he makes. He implied that he was not going to reimburse the lender for his loan (Moreia would almost certainly not repay his loan if his collateral is gone).

This is very similar to him accidentally sending a payment address that he does not control the private keys too and then not covering the loss.

I told I don't have an answer - not " I didn't want to repay it everything went wrong". I was lucky that the community helped me to "recover" the account in its initial status.   Now I know it was my mistake , the thing that *I still didn't know* is : who did all this epic trolling.

I dunno. Negative seems too harsh so neutral would be more appropriate, but BadBear removed his feedback and Redsnow did the right thing by ceasing his escrow services anyway.

this demonstrates that if he gives an address to send payment to that he doesn't control he will treat it as if payment was not received. If I am sending first to him and he makes this kind of mistake then I am out however much I just sent.

This is essentially what happened with segvec in the currency exchange section when he gave someone an incorrect address and the person who sent funds to be out 14 btc

Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896143.0

I've never told to the users "repay to this address" , I've only took the account in collateral and all the information were in the main thread. My mistake was to quote ( and don't hide the email address , or better change it) the post with the repayment address.


*Your is not a valid example*

Now I'm waiting the conclusion of the loan and I will give back the account to moreia ,  @Quickseller  can you please remove the negative feedback :



I admitted my first mistake and I will not provide anymore my escrow service here.

A global mod in the default trust list is nobody? :o

I have a feeling moreia himself is somewhat involved in this. He told redsn0w it was random, while he made that email address. I think he was planning this to make redn0w look bad. the question is, why?

It's comparable and you can draw comparisons but it's a different case. Also, segvec is probably lying though he should've paid back for his error either way and so should redsnow had it come to that. Luckily this situation got sorted so no one was out of pocket but it could've been worse and redsnow was lucky in that respect and has gotton off lightly and relatively unscathed.

Who's a global mod? And I assumed the email here was random, but because of that randomness someone exploited it and created it themselves to reset the password (unless I'm mistaken. This is the problem with using fake/made-up but easily created email addresses). 

People need to have faith in you, first and foremost. Your answer should always be, yes I will cover any losses incurred with my escrow service. Any answer other than that and you shouldn't be running an escrow service, and that's the reason you got the reaction you've gotten.


It doesn't matter whose mistake it was, what matters is that it was your responsibility. Your first duty is to your customers, not finding out who made you look bad. Yeah you got trolled, but it's your (in)actions people have a problem with. The issue wasn't with the mistake, it was the way you handled it after the fact.

As for who, who knows. I'm not going to reveal specifics about pms I've seen in reports here, but I will say it's not wise to taunt scammers when you leave them negative feedback. It's disrespectful, and a good way to make enemies.

grue


I highly doubt that, how would a third party know the made up address?

Every 30 min I refresh this page https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=mlist;sort=registered;start=0;desc  and if I see someone trying to make as impostor I leave him negative feedback.

Maybe someone of them  has tried to ruin my reputation but is wrong to leave them a negative feedback ? They surely tried ( trying) to scam the other users with their impostor nicknames.




I didn't remember if the email was public or hide , but surely the troll have seen it from the ultimate quote in the moreia's loan thread. So I think it was public.

Why do you not read what people are saying to you? I didn't say it's wrong to leave them negative feedback (look at my sent feedback), I said it's dumb to send them pms taunting them about it.

Oh sorry,  I know it is not necessary but I tried to stop them so I sent them a pm ( I know it was not necessary , but I tried).

Because redsnow apparently posted proof that included the email from the looks of it. If this wasn't the case and it was just down to forgetting to remove the email suspicion should be cast on the original creator of it.

you did not tell anyone to repay to a specific address but in other cases you do tell people to send funds to a specific address (like in signature campaigns and in actual trades).

Let me ask you this: if I were selling you 10 btc for $3,300 and I send 10 btc to an address that you tell me to send to but mistakenly the address belongs to someone else would you still give me the $3,300 even though you effectively have not received any Bitcoin?

yes he was probably lying about giving an incorrect address but it doesn't matter. The only reason this situation was resolved was because badbear bailed him out. It is because of BadBear that both parties wil not face a total loss. I don't think it is appropriate for his reputation to be unscathed in this case

@escrow

• Find a way to return back his account. (If you haven't, yet.)
• Proceed with the deal/agreement like nothing happened. - In this case you're responsible for both parties. Talking about losses.
• Re think of your business strategy. (You cannot change terms on your own as an escrow. Talking about how you handled EBS.)
• Don't pay attention to the trolls. There will be always trolls.
• Don't pay attention to the trolls. There will be always trolls.
• Don't pay attention to the trolls. There will be always trolls.

You did a mistake. It's normal. Everyone does mistakes. That's what makes us humans and teaches us not to repeat the same mistakes.

PS: I don't think that you deserve negative trust for that mistake, but yeah, it's a forum with all kind of people.

No , im my escrow service  the seller send me item ( altcoin , digital goods  , account , etc..) when I have received it I will tell to the buyer:

Pay  the seller to the address that him wrote you in this conversation.

When the buyer has paid I will release the item to him (buyer).

I've neverd told to one of the parts , send the funds here or there ( only in the past  ICO , or signature campaign funds).



Yes in this case I must repay you , but you are still not providing a valid example.

But we don't know how redsnow would've acted because of that. He may or may not have returned the funds out of his own pocket. Had he done the same as segvec then yes negative feedback would be justified. It's arguable as to whether his reputation is unscathed. He has a trusted neutral warning and a red from Eal and you and many people will now not trust him, but most of all he's stopped offering the service which was the right thing to do.

he said numerous times that the mistake was unintentional when he was asked if he was going to repay out of his own pocket. This leads me to believe that he was not planning on paying out of my own pocket. The situation was resolved quickly enough so that it didn't need to come to that

Yes I said that the mistake was unintentional ,  I didn't told nothing for the question of the loan repaying.  Now can you please remove the negative trust , as hilariousandco  I will not provide anymore my escrow service here in the forum.

You can believe whatever you want , but you don't have any certainty.

I am sure that a lot (or at least some) of the people that receive negative trust is a result of a misunderstanding and may not truly be trying to scam. If this is the case then taunting after giving negative trust means that you are taunting someone who is trying to operate legitimately.

Imo that behavior is very unprofessional and reflects very poorly on him.

I've sent only the pm to the impostors , check my sent feedback.  In my opinion you are trying to argue with me , but you can't make a valid conversation.

An example :

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=408037  I think this is an impostor .
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=407961  also him.

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=407925  discovered also " fedsn0w" ....

Well he may or may not have done the right thing in that situation but I guess we'll never know now. Luckily for everyone involved really. Regardless, redsnow's rep is somewhat tarnished and your feedback can stay if you so wish it to be. That's your call.

U are the escrow u lost account its ur fault.
Doesnt matter what he said its ur job to take care of account if u lost it then u are responsible.
What should happen now is 1st u put 0.8 to escrow until moreia gets his account from you

The negative feedback is harsh as he has stopped providing escrow from his main account. Keep a look out for one of his alts to start providing escrow.

If you want to provide negative feedback to anybody, do it to Canary. The default trust power went to his head and he started the taunting after that.

Which ALT are you talking about? Link to the account please.

   ~~MZ~~

So I can't stop the impostors and send them a pm to move ? amazing , I thought the impostors are not welcome here. I leave only the feedback to the impostors and the newbie ( registered here ) onty to request a loan without a collateral.





I don't have alt-account , this is only the one.

He's probably just speaking in general terms and being presumptuous and doesn't know of any of his alts but just saying to keep an eye out for them. I don't think he'll be rushing to start a new escrow any time soon anyway and he'd be better just waiting a while and trying again on his current account if he was going to do so.

It is never appropiate to taunt someone. The trade with caution is enough to stop anyone trying to impersonate someone else. They were probably trying to actually have a presence here if they bothered to report any messages. There was what was probably a honest misunderstanding when someone made a thread in meta about getting negative trust minutes after creating an account that was similar to your username. My impression of him was that he thought of the name independently of your reputation here (although he may have been trying to get the trust removed to scam). I haven't seen that person around since the day he made that thread so he probably either left the community or made another account.

I think my trust is appropiate for now. The maximum affect it will have is cause a trade with caution warning for anyone that has me on their trust list. This is an example of why you should trade with caution when dealing with him. Anyone reading my rating will see that I do not think he is going to actively try to scam.


there is nothing to say that he wouldn't provide escrow if asked (there is no reason why him saying he won't escrow anymore in the future - changing his mind would not make him a liar). My trust rating warns people against asking him to escrow

Is right.

I have seen lots of users vouching for his escrow over much better alternatives, even those who just signed up and some of those may be his alts.

I really want , but  for this mistake I think it is secure for me to don't provide anymore an escrow service. Thanks anyway for your opinion , but some users don't like  my "action" and I think I'm a good user (as other).


However why a bitcointalk forum ( so we are also talking of cryptography) don't have a simple email verification.



Can you at least change it on neutral status as Blazr  has well done. Don't worry I will not provide anymore my escrow service, however if you think it is necessary it is not a problem.

it is to allow users to remain more anonymous. And I am pretty sure that is has been reasonably concluded that email "verdfication" is what allowed the account to get "hacked"

Yes I remember him  "redsnow". Try to ask also an opinion to Tomatocage ( who found the account) and Vod.



If you use a 2FA , with will be more difficult to hack an email address. However mine it is only a suggestion ,  I think an email verification will avoid all the future problems.

As requested by redsn0w

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is the Real Moreia
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1AbPEJEGeuvXDoD2qGeYf8P5TB6nwseNrQ
HNxfWiK4YyYVlbY0Gpe3E2vsef7BEc2O573UnMGRG/HeY72Y1DXooYQBXr8DsSq8BY939zLf622HmkiLTc+BBD8=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

You both seriously need to learn to date your signed messages. Now anyone can potentially impersonate you by producing the same signature/message/address combination

no your not! you're an imposter - I am the real moreia, here is the proof:


-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is the Real Moreia
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1AbPEJEGeuvXDoD2qGeYf8P5TB6nwseNrQ
HNxfWiK4YyYVlbY0Gpe3E2vsef7BEc2O573UnMGRG/HeY72Y1DXooYQBXr8DsSq8BY939zLf622HmkiLTc+BBD8=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

:P

Don't sign vague messages! I facepalmed so hard. Anyone can use this signed message to pretend to be you now.

(just to note I don't actually claim to be moreia)

I've fixed the old signed message ( you can see  it in the moreia signature, and now all know it is not more valid because it is not more the 2th of january) and anyone can easily ask a signed message with the date or a specific word. @moreia_alt can you provide a new signed message with the date ?

It is too late for both of you. Blazr has proved that he is the real Moreia and there is a very high chance that someone was able to copy your signed message. lol

Yes , but I can always sign a message with any requested word  .... so I can prove  all the time that I'm redsn0w.

These Meta threads are getting to be nearly as epic as some of the Alternate Currency threads  ;D


~BCX~

Anyone can now produce a signed message that says they are redsn0w. Others may not be savvy enough to ask for a signed message with a specific message with the date

This is how you should sign a message:

"This is moreia from BitcoinTalk, todays date is 01/3rd/2015 and at this present time I control the moreia_alt BitcoinTalk account"

Minimal risk of the signed message being used maliciously. Always think very carefully about what you are signing.

Redsn0w could've also used the same template above.

Would I get banned if I had all of my accounts make this exact same claim?

I only read the first four pages so don't get mad but did anyone find the troll who took over his account?

I suspect it would be easier to find the lochness monster. At least we'd know where to start looking.

There is no way of finding that. Anyone smart enough to do so would be using a VPN or Tor.

According to BadBear whoever took over Moreia's account logged in via tor.

How is your inquisition going redsnow?

I think all is resolved now.  Mine it was only a mistake , but now  I've paid my error ( and i don't provide anymore my escrow service here).


*redsn0w  not redsnow /thanks.

I am not sure if not being escrow anymore if really paying for your error

At the end it was an error but all was resolved , so I think it is more secure don't offer anymore my escrow service.

I think he has paid for his error, he lost a lot of the trust the community had placed in him, his decision to stop escrowing is a result of this. In the end, the account was recovered and no one actually lost anything of value, I'm not sure how else you think he should be "paying for his error".

Yes for my stupid mistake I've  almost ruined my reputation here , anyway that troll  has been a very "bastard".

You see now how easy people here make it for random trolls to destroy everything in their path?

Your reputation isn't ruined, in my opinion, you're still pretty much as trustworthy an individual to trade with as beforehand. All this incident does is reflect negatively on your competency as an escrow, which you addressed by closing those services.

This is not entirely true. He says he is no longer escrow
However this is not the case.
He is also apparently escrowing the prize for the auction crypro signature contest as per this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=911933.0;all)
People are still recommending and asking to use him as escrow publicly. He still is publicly rejecting these requests.  

Maybe one day I will "restart" my escrow service but not more for deal that involved forum account .

What conclusion from this story can make everyone? - Never trust to the third party (YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO THIS!!!), use MultiSig transactions escrow for valuable things, only this can protect You from third party error...

If you had checked this thread. you would have seen MultiSig could not have prevented this. It was a simple, and costly, oversight from redsn0w.

I am actually surprised as to how many people were using him as escrow in the first place. I saw him setup an escrow transaction from his phone (at least that is what he was saying he was doing). I highly doubt that he would be able to maintain sufficient security nor would he be able to PGP sign any message from his phone

Well it's possible to do, we don't have nokias 3310 anymore :) it's called smartphones with smart apps.

You are wrong, I had checked this thread carefully. In case of using MultiSig (example):

1. Moreia want to loan 0.8 btc from lihuajkl and will provide own acc. for collateral.
2. redsn0w creates 2-of-2(3) MultiSig address from Moreia and lihuajkl public keys.
3. lihuajkl sends 1.6 btc to MultiSig address.
4. Moreia transfers his acc. to lihuajkl after tx completion.
5. redsn0w prepares 0.8 btc tx from MultiSig address to Moreia.
6. lihuajkl and Moreia check and sign it, 0.8 btc goes to Moreia.

lihuajkl is responsible for security of Moreia acc., in case of failure he can lose 0.8+0.8 btc.
Moreia is interested to return 0.8 btc, otherwise he can lose his acc.
redsn0w is interested to be everything smoothly because he can lose his 1% fee and reputation (funds can be returned back via private keys input).

7. Moreia returns 0.8 btc back to the MultiSig address.
8. After tx completion lihuajkl returns acc. back to Moreia.
9. redsn0w prepares 1.6 btc tx back to lihuajkl (-1% to redsn0w).
10. lihuajkl and Moreia check and sign tx, 1.6 btc goes back to lihuajkl (-1% to redsn0w).

Everything is secure. Everyone is happy in any possible situation.

Funny trolls. Where are You? ;D

I don't know of any apps that can sign, encrypt, decrypt and verify pgp messages. Even if there was one most apps are not open source so it would be hard to make sure it is not leaking your private key somewhere.

Additionally any address generated on a phone is inherently not a "cold" address

If you were to give your private key to one of these apps then if what you are running is malicious then it has your private key and can use it at it's will.

He also did not specifically say that he was using an android device. Although a quick google search did find a few iOS apps for PGP encryption.

One major problem is that a phone is very easy to misplace/get stolen. This would potentially make it easy for a potential attacker to direct people to send funds to an address not actually controlled by redsn0w if he were to put down his phone for even a few seconds too long

That is right! Only need to make correct conclusions... ;)


This will not protect from human error, physical compromising (soldering iron in the ass) and from disappearing of agent/service...

There really isn't a way to protect against thermo-rectal cryptanalysis on full disk encryption :) You're just as vulnerable with a laptop or a smartphone.

There is only one protection from this special force - MultiSig: parties involved in escrow will never sign improper tx.