EDIT: Other VRM's eventually get much hotter and some clocks reduced to keep a handle on VRM temps; but the board in Novec can just be adjusted for max speed up to 51A(ish):  He needs to get the clocks running faster but neither he or I have any idea where to start; can we get a noobs guide to 525Mhz? u27 What is the viscosity of that stuff? The stuff I posted earlier was a bit too optimistic. (tolip opens mouth changes feet) A part of the puzzle is complete but,,, The FPGA quietly filters requests other than ones matching the stock Advanced page speeds. It rounds down to next available freq. That is a cool feature, errors, (like the ones I introduced) are fixed on the fly at next lowest speed. It keeps kids like me hashin. YMMV  |
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Some people mentioned swapping out the VRM to gain 20A per die. Adding a single 40A per die would require 1/2 the total VRM and provide twice the gain 40A vs 20A. $500 vs $1000 in VRM for whole Neptune. Labor is similar for both options. A reflow operator likely has both skilsets already. Not as crazy as it sounds if you ignore huge cost. Almost as easy to stack parts with traditional solder skills as replace huge SMD power components. VRM addresses can go to 12 manually, they can be in gang up to 7 units per die. The code already handles slaves, adding additional slave not too bad. The only downside is then you won't get to sell 'pampered, only hashed on cool Sundays, used 40A VRM' on ebay. YMMV |
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and you guys didn't believe me  said it cpl times in here hehe I did! Just confirming your findings match my friend's results. @ user27
Is the warmer ASIC with the cooler VRM the submerged one?
If so a small heatsink on the ASIC also submerged might help lower current.
That's not how evap cooling works; the bath is at 60 degrees and as soon as anything gets above that the liquid boils carrying the heat away. Heat sinks go at the other end of the system to cool the water in the loop. u27 Thx, I'm now slightly less ignorant on the subject. Had I engaged brain, answer is in data. Is that the stuff in the heat pipes on heatsinks? Does it require pressure lid or just cooling to recapture? Would be expensive fun to watch that stuff in traditional water cooling system. Potential catastrophy and all. More pics please please please YMMV |
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I did go into the shop and ask for the coolest cable they had; regardless of any possible homosexual cogitations. They sure delivered.
u27
Thats a number code same as resistors. BBROYGBVGW Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly. (variations exist but that is what the teacher put on blackboard in 7th grade) Can use the color instead of counting wires to count/identify wires quickly. Brown is wire#1, if connectors not reversed also pin 1 of connectors. Works fine reversed long as it's the same. The 'adopted by gender identity folks' code is Roy G Biv From back in the day when rainbows were for everyone. YMMV |
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I'm working on cooling, but a friend beat me to it with the Novec 7100... Screenshot below showing comparison between stock cooling and evap. cooling/
He say's VRM's shut down from time to time at the voltage shown so confirmed 51A is the limit regardless of temps the OCP cuts in; he is running at 500 with one voltage setting above stock now without any problems.
and you guys didn't believe me said it cpl times in here hehe @ user27 Is the warmer ASIC with the cooler VRM the submerged one? If so a small heatsink on the ASIC also submerged might help lower current. @crashoveride I agree's with ya. It's why I adjusted volts in both directions to determine lowest current with my setup. Clicking on Apply changes on advanced page does not typically sleep VRM. It's a low impact test. YMMV |
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If they had 'tested' them since 6/30, could have free shipping, and pocked about same as shipping to boot. Even a flipper would see the value in that. Did you compare the pic with others generally available? YMMV |
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This is interesting if it actually works, you have always been able to set whatever you want but waas itself is closed source in the Nov Jupiters, while you can pass it anything you like it will not actually honor the settings.. I can't imagine they open sourced the code for waas itself for the Neptune but if they did then it's an easy fix..
On my firmware I need to set things manually by flipping bits because it's out of the range of waas, I actually intercept the speed (if anyone has looked at the code) and if waas can handle it I let it, anything over the Octover and November waas ranges automatically gets set by flipping bits..
In any case if they now allow waas to do it directly it will be much easier..
hno (KnC Engineer) informed me recently that the FPGA rounds down incorrect clocks to next available. FPGA code 'spimux.rbf' is the file it's in. FPGA and ASIC are black box to me once you get on chip. The 'power of 2 clocks' above would have been rounded down to next valid clock. Drat KnC has the keys in the FPGA code. Oh well. still things to test. There is a program called 'asic' that allows command line setting of various items including freq. YMMV |
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well i gotta say this...I may not agree at what knc company does to their customers or how they run things but their boards n chips for oct. n nov jup are holding up like troopers at a moderately high oc setting/overvolting for months...i'm actually surprised they are still running n not blowing up hehe..i'm actually thinking about turning them up even more to see if i can get them to blow just for sheer entertainment...but risk of fire out weighs that i think hehe
I got a hot pepper that is forced to solo at ever increasing clocks with similar fate |
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people any help?
is show me this errors everytime
never stop
this is normal?
Close the WEB page and see if it stops. FW 1.0 has sone 'features' YMMV |
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OK, thanks for the info... I will need to study more, and back to the drawing board.....
I DID send you (unsolicited) detailed instructions via "Message" yesterday. Please forgive me for bieng so bold but, I think you are the closest to success. @ Others, I don't make a habit of it (messages or mentioning same in threads) When it's ready it is trivial to educate/distribute widely. I don't want to participate in cooking cubes of the unprepared miner that WILL click anything for 0.0001 more GH. Full disclosure I invited Elenelen to distribute when ready also, no caveats, no secrets, no leetness involved. Anyone can do it now, few are motivated to go thru the hoops yet. YMMV |
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I took a look at the waas source on github and there is a check for max frequency set at 500. You'd either need to edit and build this utility (and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what tolip did) or you can probably use the same trick that worked for the Jupiters and reset the clock before starting cgminer.
Exactly what I did. Currently, it MUST be stated. The solution is worse than the question. It does not work on the fly. It's slow. Just setting to 500 is better or as good. If you are @ 500 now, and are not getting 3.6 minus % HW and % rejects already, no point! I am not there yet with higher clock. EDIT I tried the Hoopiter approach. For shure no success here. I looked elsewhere. The SPI has changed, things have moved. Good option if someone wants to reverse engineer the changes. My first stab was a bust. YMMV |
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I must have done something wrong? As I cannot set it to 525.
As by your posts, I modified 'vi /config/advanced.conf' then did 'waas'.
Doing this I have success in modifying the voltage, and I can modify the frequency as well... but when ever I try 525 instead of 475 or 500 the 'waas' will not accept it (500 is maximum).
How did you get 525 ?
I followed suggestions from another venue about recompiling modified source code. The bar is higher than editing a script and running it currently. The RESULTS for me are less than ideal to date so I don't elaborate here. WIthout cooling and power improvements, not much there to get. If I were helpful like you are, explained monster heatsink in this thread, with pictures, I could start checking for messages, yesterday.  It's in this thread is also a cruel correct answer. It's cryptic tidbit time! Fun with powers of 2. root@Neptune:~# cat /var/run/.waas_curfreq
-1 -1 -1 -1 512 512 528 512 512 512 544 512 512 512 544 512 512 512 512 512 512 512 512 512 False is a possibility too. (BTW I claim it's real) Don't assume nuthin! Thanks to KnCMiner, It's open source, legal yet fun! YMMV |
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-0.0439 means you're pulling a higher voltage across the chip or not?
I'm telling VRM to send lower voltage to ASIC with -0.0439. The VRM is tired, he likes it. ASIC likes it too. If they likes it I likes it. Look closely @ the default voltage -0.0366. IT IS A NEGATIVE NUMBER -0.0439 is a MORE NEGATIVE NUMBER The way it is set up, there is a default voltage that is close. Then add or subtract from that to get what you want. Try higher/lower and see what works for you. YMMV |
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52a is max for the vrm before OCP kicks in n kills the vrm...so with that limitation you don't have much oc'in room...i'd say you'll be lucky to get 550mhz if that outta these units unless you super cool the vrms lmao...but that wouldn't be worth it
I determined experimentally 50A or trouble spreads. Look closely at my freq above Rock steady @ 3.54T with warm VRMs, "lmao". YMMV |
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Do we think that the VRM's will tolerate 50A+ if they are properly cooled?
u27
My experience says no they will not tolerate 50+ Must qualify that statement. I can have a couple pushin 50.1 or so. If I see 51.x it might not have puked yet but it is likely. Some quit before 50A. Seems like 49A all day works. Way past recommended with temp(for most) and current. I lowered all volt 1 selection and it helped everything. -0.0439 HW error dropped from >0.8% to <0.7% My results could be unique. If you try it please report results. Different PSU/wires combo might produce different results. YMMV |
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huge posh shrunken for ininterested folks to easily scroll past This has all been asked, and answered multiple times by others, in a lot of different ways.
I'll add to the confusion :)
Neptune power info.
The approximate approximations.
(Neptune Advanced page Watts) + (15% for VRMs) + (10-20% for PSU) = Watt @ wall.
ASSUME stuff is gonna use more for safety.
A shortcut is add ~33% to ASIC Watt for wall Watt.
Another shortcut is subtract 25% from wall for ASIC.
SSDD
A typical example:
Neptune Advanced reports
1500 Watt
That is how much the ASIC consumes.
To find out how much 12 VDC to feed the VRM to get 1500W out, add about 15%
1725Watt
That is how much PSU you need minimum, if ya blink it's gone in a puff smoke.
To find out how much WATTAGE you need at the wall add about 17.5% (unless a 90+ PSU @ 50% of capacity)
2,027 Watt
@ the wall.
If you start at the wall you get different results not a perfect method.
Also important is the amount of Amps(current) needed in each wire in the system.
Cool Wires care about Amps(current ). Goog "AWG"
Wire INSULATION and nekkid wire spacing cares about voltage.
Watt / Volt = Amps
2000 Watt / 240VAC = ~8.5 Amps per Neptune.
2000 Watt / 120VAC = ~17 Amps per Neptune, more than some 120V circuit.
1725 Watt / 12 VDC = ~144 Amps. 'rail' in PSU needs more.
Each cube wants ~30 Amps to single PCIe connector.
10 Amps per wire.
if one wire fails
15 Amps on remaining 2 wires.
Modular PSU have twice the exposure with connectors on each end of wire.
A hot END of a PCIe might indicate a connector issue before smoke if different between cubes.
It is possible to MAKE 240VAC at home with 120VAC, may not be safe, wise, or legal.
You NEED the ability to measure 240VAC for it to work.
I do not advocate it (nor ever do it if it is ill-eagle where I live),
just a creative solution that has flaws.
Most 120VAC houses have 2 'legs' split among the breakers.
Every other breaker is a different leg usually.
2 plugs on different 'legs' will have 240 between the black(USA) wires. (small prong on USA outlets with large/small)
You usually have to check between 'ideal' outlets and further ones till ya get 240VAC,
measured between the small prong in an extension cord and the small prong in different wall outlet.
If those were connected to the sides of a 240 wall outlet (6-20P) mounted in the proper enclosure,
you can run a 240 supply in an unmodified 120V house.
Could also have 120 available on seperate socket, black from one side and white from same side. Unused white wire can be covered with wirenut.
Metal enclosure and mounting mandatory, get the ones with rounded corners!
They sell cable exits to install in the enclosure knockout holes for the wall plugs.
They sell couplers to join boxes together.
The boxes often have different size knockouts.
Get the ones that fit the knockout plan you want to use.
Or make it work with what you end up with, lol.
If extension cords are involved go big 12/3 or calc what U can get away with for the length.
DO NOT NEGLECT THE GROUND wires, screw them all to the same place in the box if possible.
Then things like large PSU USED for $50 become possible.
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=5854.0
Still gotta connect them though.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=379677.0
2kW connector boards soon(would also work for DPS 2500, 1800, & 1600),
750W PSU connector, I think he had some 750 bundles. Be sure to get a PSU with published input voltage as apropriate.
The 750 PSU's last I looked were $10 a pop on Ebay.
$40 for 3kW USED but are not the only things needed.
I think
sidehack https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=130792
and
CABLEZ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54059
both make PCIe wires for coin.
Others have mentioned similar PCIe solutions here too, check them out.
You need wall power cables too.
No claims to anything above regarding calculations, ideas, vendor apropriateness.
I pre-ordered some DPS-2000 boards.
All I know for sure is the pics look cool!
Flexability, options, backup, food for thought.
YMMV
:)
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I just woke up, and saw that cgminer 4.4.1 dumped again (and restarted automatically)... looks that there is some bug in fw-1.0 or cgminer_4.4.1 (I didn't have crashes with rc9 and 4.4.0, while hardware and Volt-tuning are all the same).
Next week, I hope to have some more time and will check that log-file (thanks for the info).
Did you have Status or Advanced web page running? ssh connection? miner.php using the API? I have stopped using the gui completely when possible. Not even running 'screen -r' I'll see how long going native lasts. I get hashrate with 'api-cgminer devs' Get VRM details and clock volt temp stuff same as Advanced 'waas -g all-asic-info' This also identifies choices for filtering. To filter out Frequency 'waas -g all-asic-info | grep Freq' or a different way to see clock only 'cat /var/volatile/run/.waas_curfreq' The teaser root@Neptune:~# cat /var/run/.waas_curfreq
-1 -1 -1 -1 500 500 550 500 500 500 525 525 500 500 550 500 475 500 525 500 475 525 500 525
Find sleeping VRM 'waas -g all-asic-info | grep Iout' Change things manually instead of Advanced page 'vi /config/advanced.conf' apply button replacement, use after manual edit of /config/advanced.conf 'waas' WARNING this may result just like clicking on Apply in the advanced page with some VRM off. It's random same as Advanced. YMMV EDIT I found a way to wake up sleeping VRM WITHOUT POWER CYCLE! it's faster! stop cgminer with '/etc/init.d/cgminer.sh stop' if Advanced page is open wait for numbers to drop (20 seconds?) To just wake up sleepers no changes 'waas' If you need to apply changes from Advanced do it with cgminer stopped If you manually edited /config/advanced.conf, run 'waas' Wait 20-30 seconds for waas to finish. restart cgminer with '/etc/init.d/cgminer.sh restart' look to see if VRM are happy! |
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I got a cgminer dump and auto-restart as well (it ran very nicely, for 9 hours, at 3.585 Ths and 50080 WU).
I'm going to assume it was not possibly VRM temp related in your case. I still have a couple that reach low 90 on occasion. Those are still just sitting in some wind. I mention that because it is certainly 'possible' that they got warmer I doubt it. Some kind of clue is output from cat /var/log/monitordcdc.log It shows throttling of all die(on one ASIC) and documents cgminer restarts indirectly. The timestamps have big jumps at 'events'. Been runnin clean for a few hours now. Pool thinks it did 3.7T for an hour! 3.600 would be perfect @ 500 and I had 2 die(or 6???) slower at the time. It's just a calculating average wierdness when block times change during period averaged. Still pool is not indicating anything to get alarmed about. I'm just lettin it ride. It recoveres quickly. YMMV |
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The other three dies on that cube work for the most part so I think cable issues are unlikely to be the cause; I have tried swapping that cube with another one i.e. different PCI-e cable, different PSU, different ribbon, different beagle socket/
I managed to get the firmware uploaded; must have tried 8 or 9 times that timed out and then it worked for no apparent reason. Now I have no advanced tab and additional errors:
Might one die be overheating before you even have a chance to look Did you visually inspect the ASIC/heatsink mating? Mis-installation is possible, piece of grit got in there?. The aluminum plate needs inspected too the VRMs at the end of the "E" need cooled. If you have similar FW upload issue in the future, possibly run controller without cubes. It might be too busy freakin out about something to pay attention. YMMV |
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It just times out after a while/
Same from different browsers and different devices.
2nd die on first chip has not worked at any point; totally screwed I think.
Have you tried a ribbon cable from a working cube on that one? YMMV |
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