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1001  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Gridseed GC3355 -Hybrid Scrypt/SHA256 ASIC on: December 16, 2013, 10:07:57 PM
Unfortunately 65 USD/chip for mass production is not a deal for me. Let us hope that they will lower the price when time comes.
Best

The chips only cost a few dollars each to produce, so there's a big margin for profit there...  It'll come down to be competitive, same as before with ASICMINER.
1002  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DOGE] Dogecoin - very currency - many coin - wow - v1.1 Released on: December 16, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
There's some kind of bug in the 1.1 client.  Whenever I try to send coins now, the client freezes for 5 or so minutes, then sends the transaction, however the transaction is not seen on the network (only locally).
1003  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: December 16, 2013, 01:57:34 PM
2x 6-pin PCIe cables are used to power my Bitfury M board.  A few people have had their's go up in flames when using between 500-600w.  The three 12V molex contacts on the 6-pin connector themselves are good for 300W or so all combined, so long as your PSU manufacturer doesn't cheap out on them and use a smaller gauge than spec (which seems to happen on occasion).

It shouldn't be a problem if we're all getting seasonic psus.
1004  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 16, 2013, 12:04:09 AM
Just get it over with and kick anth0ny from the thread, the guy is seriously staring to rival johnyj for skull thickness.

Wow, two full pages of the thread just disappeared.
1005  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Does BTC need to be over $2,000 in 2014 for mining to be profitable? on: December 15, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
My thoughts are: 2014 will be the year we see Bitcoin and Bitcoin hardware start to tumble again as the price doesn't rise enough to warrant the sale of hardware, and the hardware market finally becomes competitive with miners in stock everywhere.  This is exactly what happened post-boom in 2011, and I don't it'll play out differently this time.  In the meantime, PPC, with its wacky reward algorithm, and LTC, with ASICs finally coming, will both see rises in value against BTC.
1006  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Handle much larger MH/s rigs : simply increase the nonce size on: December 14, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
So... has this issue been resolved?  Will it still break all ASICs if they get too fast?
1007  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 14, 2013, 04:01:22 PM
Quote
Because bitcoin doesn't fix anything. A replacement for gold isn't what society needs, it needs a replacement for fiat so we can stop worrying about having to run to gold. If bitcoin doesn't get used in commerce (which will require lending), it will never have a tangible grasp over society like gold, in which case it becomes easily replaceable. Not a good property to have for a value store.

I think this point is arguable.  Alan Greenspan from this year:

Quote from: Alan Greenspan
“We have at this particular stage a fiat money which is essentially money printed by a government and it’s usually a central bank which is authorized to do so. Some mechanism has got to be in place that restricts the amount of money which is produced, either a gold standard or a currency board, because unless you do that all of history suggest that inflation will take hold with very deleterious effects on economic activity… There are numbers of us, myself included, who strongly believe that we did very well in the 1870 to 1914 period with an international gold standard.”

Quote from: Alan Greenspan
“It [bitcoin] has to have intrinsic value. You have to really stretch your imagination to infer what the intrinsic value of bitcoin is. I haven’t been able to do it. Maybe somebody else can.”

Greenspan can't see the forest through the trees: that Bitcoin is similar to gold but is mathematically designed for distribution in a way superior to gold, and whose transport and storage is also easier than that of gold.

My work on MC2 is attempting to resolve some of the issues regarding the uselessness of Bitcoin as an actual currency, as I suspect your Decrits are.  I don't care who succeeds in the end, as long as one of us does.

A pleasant future may be something like this: Bitcoin functioning as gold used to, and some other cryptocurrency functioning as fiat used to.
1008  Economy / Economics / Re: So are all these people paying CGT on cars they're buying with BTC? on: December 14, 2013, 03:58:07 PM
Capital gain only counts when you cash out to fiat, currently there is no clear rules when you exchange it with goods

This is challenging for accounting. Imagine that you spent 100 coins at the beginning of the year ($1500) in your business and get a return of 10 coins at the end of the year($9000), then your result is a loss of 90 coins, you should get a tax deduction of 90 coins, which is $81000  Grin

However, if counted in USD, you have a net gain of $7500, so you have to pay income tax...





Oh really!
Have you ever dealt with Capital gain tax?
Also I loved the part about exchanging fiat to goods.

This guy is right.  Whenever you exchange Bitcoin for something of value, you MUST pay either income tax or CGT.

See: http://www.bitcointax.info/

Do not get your ass audited, it SUCKS.

Quote
Example 2:       Satoshi Nakamoto purchases 1 BTC for $100 on April 1, 2013.  A day later, 1 BTC is valued at $200.  Later that day, when the value of 1 BTC has not increased, Satoshi exchanges his 1 BTC for a detailing job on his car that has a fair market value of $300.

Conclusion:     Satoshi has realized $300 of proceeds and $200 of gains that must be reported on his tax return for 2013.
1009  Economy / Economics / Re: "China does NOT allow goods/services to be sold/paid for by bitcoin" CEO of btcc on: December 13, 2013, 04:34:15 PM
If China can't manipulate it, what's the point?
1010  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 13, 2013, 04:27:53 PM
FRB does not have to be in effect for this scenario. Lending of any kind will be a massive risk.

Lending has to be against a basket currency of things like commodities or equities that have more stable prices, e.g. a credit representing the S&P500 or a small quantity of the food staples of the nation.  You still run a large risk that your Bitcoins or gold you cash out could be worth much more tomorrow, but they might also be worth much less.

It will probably settle to just having a bank that deals mostly in these equity/commodity notes with a little Gold/Bitcoin/whatever backing, e.g. the Deutsche Bundesbank (with 3000 tonnes of gold), and this will end up the bank people actually trust.

Bitcoin thus serves a role in wealth maintenance, like gold, for when the markets trainwreck themselves by gambling with fiat inappropriately.
1011  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 13, 2013, 02:35:36 PM
Example: Jimmy borrows 50,000 0.0001 BTC bank notes from the bank to help buy a house, which is worth 5 BTC.  The price of BTC in wheat bushel equivalents (or whatever consumer price equivalents) increases two-fold in a year, and now Jimmy owes the bank twice as much.  But wait!  What if Jimmy instead borrowed against the value of wheat?  Jimmy owes 200,000 wheat bushel equivalents in this year and next, and the "price" of wheat bushels has more or less stayed the same even though BTC value has fluctuated a lot -- so Jimmy is okay.

Except that Jimmy isn't the only debtor in this scenario the bank is one as well so now the depositors will have to accept that their deposits are indexed to deflation. Except they don't have to as they can withdraw their BTC.

I guess the banks will just have to stop dabbling in so much fractional reserve gambling if they want to stay afloat.
1012  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Fibonacci Scrypt ASIC Litecoin Miners - News and Questions on: December 13, 2013, 06:36:27 AM
Willing to offer me one early for review as a longtime community member?
1013  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Bitcoin mining is Dead, Tot, Apagado, Gone w tricycle, 88 on: December 13, 2013, 02:38:11 AM
I guess you'll have to buy bitcoins instead.
1014  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: December 12, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
I feel like the moral of the story is that no one should buy mining hardware until we hit mining hardware equilibrium where it is readily available for anyone who may want it.

I'm batch two with no MPP...
1015  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 04:21:04 PM
See also: http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~cromer/JEP_Spring99.pdf

Which is cited in that article.  These are current financial advisers themselves admitting that the gold standard does not make the economy more volatile some 14 years ago.

Quote
Does this mean that there really is a “new economy” today where cycles are largely
nonexistent? Perhaps. We have had the potential for greater stability since the advent
of aggregate demand policy, automatic stabilizers, and deposit insurance. In the last
decade or so we have used these tools to counteract shocks and have not created new
ones. As long as policy continues to make few mistakes toward over expansion, policy induced
recessions to control inflation should continue to be rare.

2008 confirmed her to be completely wrong about the influence of current economic policy.  Greed will find a way around attempts at market stabilization.
1016  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 04:12:11 PM
Quote
The gold standard acts as a limit on economic growth. "As an economy's productive capacity grows, then so should its money supply. Because a gold standard requires that money be backed in the metal, then the scarcity of the metal constrains the ability of the economy to produce more capital and grow."[64]

This statement is itself not true.  Bitcoin itself simply becomes more valuable, and everyone moves on with their day.

Yes, I consider this as a central problem for Bitcoin and gold standard. If "Bitcoin itself simply becomes more valuable", everything else becomes not that simple for producers in the first place, and you won't get away with it by just saying "and everyone moves on with their day". It has already been proven so many times that if you claim otherwise, it can be considered that you don't actually understand the issue at hand...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-03/the-gold-standard-wasn-t-so-bad.html

Quote
The gold standard wasn't bad for growth, either. The most reliable information comes from an annual index of industrial production from 1790 to 1915. We can compare that index against the monthly industrial production data collected by the Federal Reserve since 1919 to get a sense of how rapidly the economy grew under different monetary arrangements. It turns out that industrial production grew much more rapidly under the gold standard than in the years since. This doesn't change even if you exclude the world wars and the Great Depression.
1017  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 04:01:50 PM
Could you please expand more on this? Not saying that you're wrong, just don't get your point and how it is related to the issue at hand, i.e. how unequal distribution of gold deposits could support the gold standard itself and mend its inherent deficiencies?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that these are deficiencies listed on the Wikipedia page for gold standard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

See, "disadvantages"

I don't doubt about the disadvantage you advanced here (lol), but I didn't mean this as being a primary disadvantage that I was referring to when I compared Bitcoin "standard" with gold standard and through which, in my opinion, Bitcoin should fail in the end...

Oh, sorry.  I was just going through some of the arguments as to why gold doesn't work as a currency, and why Bitcoin solves some (but not all) issues.
1018  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
And I guess my argument really just boils down to: "Banks need to 'price' paper derivatives against mass averages of things that actually exist, rather than magic money printed from thin air by the government.  Things that actually exist include equities representing worth/revenue streams of corporations and physical commodities."
1019  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 03:47:27 PM
Could you please expand more on this? Not saying that you're wrong, just don't get your point and how it is related to the issue at hand, i.e. how unequal distribution of gold deposits could support the gold standard itself and mend its inherent deficiencies?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that these are deficiencies listed on the Wikipedia page for gold standard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

See, "disadvantages"
1020  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) on: December 12, 2013, 03:22:20 PM
Perhaps I should make my argument more clear.  The implied assumption is that the evolution will go:

Bitcoins -> paper Bitcoins -> central bank

I'm saying it's much more likely to be:

Bitcoins -> paper Bitcoins -> Bitcoins

Actually, what you say should be written as following:

Bitcoins -> paper Bitcoins by all banks (causes inflation and bank-runs) -> paper Bitcoins by Central Bank (establishment of gold Bitcoin standard)

And after that we begin running into ever deepening economic crises which finally bring about dismantling of the Bitcoin standard (see the Great Depression), so the last step will be:

paper Bitcoins by Central Bank (causes deflation and incessant economic crises) -> fiat by Central Bank (Bitcoin standard dismantled)

This argument is wrong for these reasons.  Let's use the wikipedia article on the gold standard.

Quote
The unequal distribution of gold deposits makes the gold standard more advantageous for those countries that produce gold.[61] In 2010 the largest producers of gold, in order, were China, Australia, US, South Africa and Russia.[62] The country with the largest reserves is Australia.[63]
Not a problem with Bitcoin, especially when 100% has been generated.

Quote
The gold standard acts as a limit on economic growth. "As an economy's productive capacity grows, then so should its money supply. Because a gold standard requires that money be backed in the metal, then the scarcity of the metal constrains the ability of the economy to produce more capital and grow."[64]
This statement is itself not true.  Bitcoin itself simply becomes more valuable, and everyone moves on with their day.

Quote
Mainstream economists believe that economic recessions can be largely mitigated by increasing the money supply during economic downturns.[65] A gold standard means that the money supply would be determined by the gold supply and hence monetary policy could no longer be used to stabilize the economy.[66] The gold standard is often blamed for prolonging the Great Depression, as under the gold standard, central banks could not expand credit at a fast enough rate to offset deflationary forces.[67]
Mainstream economists are mostly just wrong on this issue; quoting Greenspan: "Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard."

Quote
Although the gold standard brings long-run price stability, it is historically associated with high short-run price volatility.[51][68] It has been argued by Schwartz, among others, that instability in short-term price levels can lead to financial instability as lenders and borrowers become uncertain about the value of debt.[68]
Adjustments in price affecting debtors/creditors can be mitigated by contracting against the value of more stable commodities like wheat, not against Bitcoin itself.  You need to build price increases due to deflation into the contract itself, which for some reason seems to baffle economists as a possibility.

Example: Jimmy borrows 50,000 0.0001 BTC bank notes from the bank to help buy a house, which is worth 5 BTC.  The price of BTC in wheat bushel equivalents (or whatever consumer price equivalents) increases two-fold in a year, and now Jimmy owes the bank twice as much.  But wait!  What if Jimmy instead borrowed against the value of wheat?  Jimmy owes 200,000 wheat bushel equivalents in this year and next, and the "price" of wheat bushels has more or less stayed the same even though BTC value has fluctuated a lot -- so Jimmy is okay.

You just need to make the commodity backing an aggregate average of a lot of materials with stable prices... eg wheat, soybean, steel, rice, gold, and a million other things.

Quote
Deflation punishes debtors.[69][70] Real debt burdens therefore rise, causing borrowers to cut spending to service their debts or to default. Lenders become wealthier, but may choose to save some of the additional wealth, reducing GDP.[71]
See above.

Quote
The money supply would essentially be determined by the rate of gold production. When gold stocks increase more rapidly than the economy, there is inflation and the reverse is also true.[51][72] The consensus view is that the gold standard contributed to the severity and length of the Great Depression.[73][74]
Because economists can't figure out appropriate ways to control inflation by pricing against essential commodities, they assume the above statement is true.

Quote
Hamilton contended that the gold standard is susceptible to speculative attacks when a government's financial position appears weak. Conversely, this threat discourages governments from engaging in risky policy (see moral hazard). For example, the US was forced to contract the money supply and raise interest rates in September 1931 to defend the dollar after speculators forced the UK off the gold standard.[74][75][76][77]
I don't really consider this a problem.

Quote
Devaluing a currency under a gold standard would generally produce sharper changes than the smooth declines seen in fiat currencies, depending on the method of devaluation.[78]
This is an issue the banks need to solve.

Quote
Most economists favor a low, positive rate of inflation of around 2%. This reflects fear of deflationary shocks and the belief that active monetary policy can dampen fluctuations in output and unemployment. Inflation gives them room to tighten policy without inducing deflation.[79]
There is no deflation once all Bitcoin has been issued.

Quote
A gold standard provides practical constraints against the measures that central banks might otherwise use to respond to economic crises.[80] Creation of new money reduces interest rates and thereby increases demand for new lower cost debt, raising the demand for money.[81]
I don't think the second sentence is true.

The anonymity issue is fixed simply by the usage of paper derivatives and having a bank that doesn't issue more paper derivatives than they have.  ZeroCoin and forks will probably also fix this, and Bitcoin itself can fix this by adopting ZeroCoin protocol.

If you're wondering about investment, people will can invest versus commodity contracts as well, eg, lend on the commodity index, and ask for 1.05% of the commodity index in Bitcoin in return.  You're investing in a service that you believe will be more valuable to the population than other services in the years to come, and hence, will sequester more Bitcoins.

The problem isn't with Bitcoin backing things, it's with banks not being able to appropriately determine what "price" is and with central banks/governments deciding that they need more money rather than seeking resolutions to their problems that don't involve the magic generation of more money.  I have a feeling that the progressive manipulation of fiat inflation at low single digits will eventually lead to a catastrophic crisis that is more severe than the ones we've seen previously.  And it's clear from the negative inflation rates of German bonds in the past few years that even making paper derivatives and increasing their inflation to try to manipulate the economy can not prevent deflation in some cases.
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