Another Pre-Order by someone who just joined the forum. Really? I guess you decided to immediately reply and not even type Cointerra into google? http://www.cointerra.com/ Click on the team profile and educate yourself a little. If KNC takes pre orders with guys running an IT firm, I feel much more confident in a guy who was lead CPU Architect for Samsung who sells more phones than Apple. We're all smart. We are not all honest. I guess they are prepared to throw their whole lives away to scam some pre order money with paypal and credit cards. Screw the hundreds and millions of dollars I have already made at Samsung time to gamble it all. |
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Your math was just utter nonsense. Like saying a day is 24 hours and a gallon has 4 quarts so the cost of a beer is 4/24 = $0.16, any beer c(regardless of if it is a small glass or giant flaggon) can't possibly cost more than $0.16.
This whole discussion has gone way over my head, but this comment definitely made me laugh harder than anything in a long time (including Inaba's trolling of the "Status of BFL" thread that's been going on recently). I wish I can understand what he was saying went from hours in a day to gallons to beer. End of the day he is saying their production cost for 1 chip is $500 lol. |
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Cointerra is talking about a 500 GH chip. Are you really trying to claim that their chip uses $500 of silicon? Or even $400 worth? I don't think that silicon price is the limiting factor in any of this; I just looked up the price of silicon and unless I did something very wrong it looks to me like that amount of money would buy you like a KG. Additionally, many of the costs you are talking about (e.g. testing) are probably about the same regardless of number of chips on a board.
Until we see Cointerra's dimensions it is hard to say. As for looking up the price of silicon, make sure you are looking at the cost of a printed wafer. Blank wafers are used by FABs to print chips. Those 28nm FABs costs billions to build and have a limited economical lifespan. The price of raw silicon is pretty irrelevant. Still I don't really care enough. If people want to wait for sub $1 per GH/s assembled miners well let them. I don't own any of these companies. Again Avalon has hundreds of chips on their unit, and they were able to make a profit on it at $1200 and that was hundreds of chips so I'm sorry but i think you are way off with your pricing. The number of chips doesn't really matter at the fabrication level. Bigger more powerful chips are cheaper in the long run because it requires less post FAB assembly. Avalon's chip is on an ancient process (110nm) and is only 16mm. If the same chip was die shrunk down to 55nm it would only be 4nm in size. The wafer would cost the same amount but compared to bitfury an Avalon55 would get almost 4x as many chips per wafer thus the cost per chip would be lower but the cost per GH/s wouldn't. You can't really compare Avalon to 28nm chips but lets assume their cost was $1 per GH/s. That doesn't mean it is $1 per chip, it is $1 per GH/s. Smaller chip = more chips per wafer = lower cost per chip. Their $1200 product would only have $100 to $200 in Silicon production costs. You don't see how that would be profitable? What are you even arguing? Your own calculations show that Avalon is profitable at $1200 with only $100-$200 in Silicon. So please explain to me how $1/gh is production cost for CoinTerra? That means CoinTerra has a production cost of $500 per chip, are you smoking something? |
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As suppliers continue to ramp up production numbers the price of blank 12-inch silicon wafers continues to fall. Early in the year 12-inch blank wafers were about US$500, but have since fallen to $200, reflecting the nearly three-fold production increases by some suppliers. I wouldn't even care to guess what the prices are now probably a few dollars the most.
Again Avalon has hundreds of chips on their unit, and they were able to make a profit on it at $1200 and that was hundreds of chips so I'm sorry but i think you are way off with your pricing.
Your comparing apples to oranges. Unless you OWN a fab you price isn't a blank silicon wafer, it is a printed silicon wafer. No 28nm fab is offering runs @ $500 a wafer. Ok I'm not going to argue anymore final point which has been made over and over again. Avalon Batch #1 $1200 say 96 chips that means $12.5 per chip. Say the cost is much more since it's 28nm lets triple the cost, $37.5 per 28nm chip add all the other costs say $200 a chip. 1 of their chips is 500gh/sec 2 chips to make 1TH equals $400 dollars costs, so they can def. sell for $1000 per GH. The only reason for the price to be higher is that they are trying to recover their designing and developing costs, not the actual cost of the chips. Case in point again: Intel Core i3-3225 22nm even smaller selling for $139.99 for a profit. Please enlighten me about these high magical costs of yours, actually please don't because clearly you are wrong or else Avalon chips wouldn't cost $12.5 and Intel chips $30-$100 |
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I think it is going to be too late for a 500GHs device in late Q4
Well they have said that the chips are 500 GH, not the devices. Maybe they'll throw 16 of them in a box and charge 7k for it? Don't really see how they will generate much in the way of orders otherwise. People don't realize that multiple chips make up miners. They need to be at the magical number of 1th per $1000ish or less to be worthwhile against any competition and longevity as they seem to be hinting at. that would be great but is it possible? Probably not. Silicon wafer's aren't that cheap. Even in high volume we are talking $5K a piece. So there will always be a chip production cost. Unless you get a design which is significantly more efficient (GH/s per mm) at the same process (28nm) you are probably looking at more than that just for chip production cost. Of course that ignores the BOM, assembly, testing, defects, profit margin, and amortizing the NRE. I don't know how low chip companies can go but I think $1 per GH/s is like hoping gold will go below $300 an ounce (current minimal production cost). What do you mean it's def. possible. Look at intels numbers they sell chips for $100 dollars, or $30 atom processors to OEMs. Now of course these guys don't have that type of volume but it's still very doable. Perfect case in point is with Avalon batch 1, they sold them for like $1200 dollars and one module had hundreds of chips on it. The silicon itself has a cost. The cost of miner is never going to be below the silicon cost, plus cutting, packaging, testing, etc. Then you add on BOM (balance of material = everything in a miner other than the ASIC), assembly, labor, profit margin, defects. $1 per GH/s is pretty close to the silicon cost. Chip companies aren't going to sell chips at a loss. As suppliers continue to ramp up production numbers the price of blank 12-inch silicon wafers continues to fall. Early in the year 12-inch blank wafers were about US$500, but have since fallen to $200, reflecting the nearly three-fold production increases by some suppliers. I wouldn't even care to guess what the prices are now probably a few dollars the most. Again Avalon has hundreds of chips on their unit, and they were able to make a profit on it at $1200 and that was hundreds of chips so I'm sorry but i think you are way off with your pricing. |
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What's your problem with him/her? They can post whatever in here, that is called Freedom of Speech. You don't liked to read their posts, please ignore them and don't read them. Too many immature kids posting in here. No patient and using those 4 letters word, good grieve, get a life.  shove your free speech up your ass american moron. I guess you come from a communist totalitarian country? lmao screw free speech I love having no freedoms!! |
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Another Pre-Order by someone who just joined the forum. Really? I guess you decided to immediately reply and not even type Cointerra into google? http://www.cointerra.com/ Click on the team profile and educate yourself a little. If KNC takes pre orders with guys running an IT firm, I feel much more confident in a guy who was lead CPU Architect for Samsung who sells more phones than Apple. |
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What's your problem with him/her? They can post whatever in here, that is called Freedom of Speech. You don't liked to read their posts, please ignore them and don't read them. Too many immature kids posting in here. No patient and using those 4 letters word, good grieve, get a life. problem is I say your fat and live in Asia, without having any information about you, and pass it off as fact. Cointerra hasn't provided any prices yet, and this idiot calls them very expensive, how do you go making a statement like that with absolutely no information? |
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I think it is going to be too late for a 500GHs device in late Q4
Well they have said that the chips are 500 GH, not the devices. Maybe they'll throw 16 of them in a box and charge 7k for it? Don't really see how they will generate much in the way of orders otherwise. People don't realize that multiple chips make up miners. They need to be at the magical number of 1th per $1000ish or less to be worthwhile against any competition and longevity as they seem to be hinting at. that would be great but is it possible? Probably not. Silicon wafer's aren't that cheap. Even in high volume we are talking $5K a piece. So there will always be a chip production cost. Unless you get a design which is significantly more efficient (GH/s per mm) at the same process (28nm) you are probably looking at more than that just for chip production cost. Of course that ignores the BOM, assembly, testing, defects, profit margin, and amortizing the NRE. I don't know how low chip companies can go but I think $1 per GH/s is like hoping gold will go below $300 an ounce (current minimal production cost). What do you mean it's def. possible. Look at intels numbers they sell chips for $100 dollars, or $30 atom processors to OEMs. Now of course these guys don't have that type of volume but it's still very doable. Perfect case in point is with Avalon batch 1, they sold them for like $1200 dollars and one module had hundreds of chips on it. |
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Did you guys listen to the latest Lets Talk Bitcoin? They talk about how the ASIC makers collude with one another like a cartel.
Of course they do, that's why they take pictures together and circle jerk eachother. You think if they were true competitors they would be all purple nurple friendly with eachother? Hi Apple, Hi Microsoft can we hold hands and kiss? Hey get Linux in here we love eachother so much. It doesn't matter though one or two members of the cartel will think about themselves and their business and truly compete and undercut their prices. |
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YOU ARE EXPENSIVE, YOU PAY ME NOW BOSS? I DO WORK GOOD?
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can we ban this person pls, eve is so fucking annoying and stupid
agreed, he's like a retarded paid shill. When you can't afford a real one you get a foreigner for 1/10th the price. Granted you get what you pay for. Even though no pricing has been released.... YOU ARE EXPENSIVE, DID I DO GOOD ENGLISH? |
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For Cointerra though to achieve their claim of long term hardware they are going to need to offer 1TH for about $500-$700 taking in account their delivery date. Or something very close to $1/gh would also achieve long term hardware goals. Is this doable who knows hope to find out in the near future.
They need to have stocks on hand and their prices are way to expensive. eve seriously STFU, your getting really annoying spamming every thread besides KNC. Really?! They are way to expensive? WTF are you talking about, they haven't even given their prices yet, and they will be the cheapest out of all ASIC companies. |
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too bad your prices suck and only accept BTC
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Omg please someone come here quick and troll the above ^^
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BFL needs to die, if anybody buys anything from them they are triple retarded lol
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I think it is going to be too late for a 500GHs device in late Q4
Well they have said that the chips are 500 GH, not the devices. Maybe they'll throw 16 of them in a box and charge 7k for it? Don't really see how they will generate much in the way of orders otherwise. People don't realize that multiple chips make up miners. They need to be at the magical number of 1th per $1000ish or less to be worthwhile against any competition and longevity as they seem to be hinting at. |
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Atleast I do care, this team has a very high potential.
Btw. I do expect CC and/or PayPal payments to be accepted. Bitcoin only is not a very good option based on the bad history in these forums.
Bitcoin ONLY ! + third party escrowThink with your heads people What are you ranting about?  |
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So the real question is, if you don't want to pre-order, why are you pre-ordering? If someone wants to pre-order, why do you care what someone else wants to do?
How are you forced to pre-order from any company?
Why do you feel compelled to want to control others in what they are able and allowed to do?
Preordering is a choice, not a requirement. No one is required to preorder an ASIC.
Your business along with Avalons is dead. Shouldn't you be preparing for trial? |
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Does XCrowd have an engineering team yet?
Probably, in my opinion they need to release massive amounts of info about their team angel investors ect to gain more credibility. Even though they have jobs listed doesn't mean they already don't have engineers. |
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