|
I'm not a troll, I've been a part of the bitcoin forums for a while and intend to stick around for a while yet. I don't check in all that often so don't always respond quickly.
Defending one's fields by having neighbors assist in defending them and paying with vegetables is community action, that is at the heart of Anarchist thought (at least Anarcho Socialist thought) but it does mean that in a certain way the fields belong to all of the neighbors. Holding a giant compound with security doors meanwhile, I don't know that I can address that properly. I suppose that so long as you are not using that control to exert power over your neighbors there is really nothing wrong with it.
|
|
|
|
|
There's some obvious confusion here between personal property and private property. Socialists are not opposed to personal property. Even Authoritarian stalinist socialists are not opposed to personal property. That is the things which you personally own and can personally hold and/or defend. Socialists, especcially Anarchist socialists, are opposed to private property. That is those things which you own only because the law says you own them, you cannot personally hold and defend them. As soon as you start hiring other people to hold and defend your private property you have established a government and are acting against Anarchist principles.
your house is personal property, a house that you rent to bring in income is private property. Obviously you cannot personally defend both your own house and a rental property.
|
|
|
|
"Anarcho-socialism" is ridiculous. What are you going to do if someone makes something and doesn't give it you? Uh, I guess we'll need a group of people to administer punishments....
I am SO looking forward to see an anarcho-socialist answer this question... Edit: there is obviously an answer in the anarchism FAQ : << I.5.8 What about crime? For anarchists, "crime" can best be described as anti-social acts, or behaviour which harms someone else or which invades their personal space. Anarchists argue that the root cause for crime is not some perversity of human nature or "original sin," but is due to the type of society by which people are moulded. For example, anarchists point out that by eliminating private property, crime could be reduced by about 90 percent, since about 90 percent of crime is currently motivated by evils stemming from private property such as poverty, homelessness, unemployment, and alienation. Moreover, by adopting anarchist methods of non-authoritarian child rearing and education, most of the remaining crimes could also be eliminated, because they are largely due to the anti-social, perverse, and cruel "secondary drives" that develop because of authoritarian, pleasure-negative child-rearing practices (See section J.6 -- "What methods of child rearing do anarchists advocate?") >> http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnarchistFAQSectionI5#seci58Personnaly, I'm not convinced. That's a problem for Anarchists of any stripe. Moreso for An-caps than An-socs in my opinion since An-soss usually assume crime will be handled by the community while an-caps usually believe the community is a form of government and that crime should be handled by private security companies (which, for some reason, are NOT a form of government) |
|
|
|
Chomsky the "anarchist" that constantly demands bigger government. What a joke.
I am discovering now a lot of really good left-liberatarian philosophers. Why do people focus on this guy? He is a joke. For example, he demands higher taxes on the rich while at the same time he is rich and has his money in a fiscal paradise to avoid paying taxes... He is very good with linguistics and he uses it as a charlatan.
"Anarcho-socialism" is ridiculous. What are you going to do if someone makes something and doesn't give it you? Uh, I guess we'll need a group of people to administer punishments.... So he makes something and doesn't give it to me. um, so? Why should he be punished for that? It's his thing, he made it. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is ridiculous. Anarcho Capitalism is not possible, it has never existed and the closest society has ever come to it (Somalia) is a really awful place to live by all accounts. Anarcho-Socialism meanwhile has existed on several occasions, admittedly it was always militarially crushed by authoritarian socialism, but that is not an inherent flaw in the system, it's just that the Anarchists picked the wrong allies. Black Ukraine and the Anarchist regions of Spain were pretty nice places to live by all accounts too. |
|
|
|
Personnaly, I consider bitcoin to be the first serious candidate for an anarcho-capitalistic currency.
Now, searching the web for the concept of anarcho-capitalism, I've found this apparently famous quote from Noam Chomsky :
<<
Anarcho-capitalism, in my opinion, is a doctrinal system which, if ever
implemented, would lead to forms of tyranny and oppression that have few
counterparts in human history. There isn't the slightest possibility that
its (in my view, horrendous) ideas would be implemented, because they would
quickly destroy any society that made this colossal error. The idea of
"free contract" between the potentate and his starving subject is a sick
joke, perhaps worth some moments in an academic seminar exploring the
consequences of (in my view, absurd) ideas, but nowhere else.
>>
Well, somehow I agree that ancap could lead to some ugly things. I doubt however that it would have no "counterparts in human history". I think that, to some extend, roman empire can be considered as anarcho-capitalistic, for instance.
Anyway, whether or not anarcho-capitalism is evil is a huge subject, but somehow I think it's pretty much the same as wondering whether or not human beings are evil. Anarcho capitalism gives individuals a huge power, for instance the power of letting people starve heartlessly. But I also think it could lead to great things. Anyway, I prefer the anarcho-capitalist perspective, rather than a bureaucratico-socialist world government.
The thing is : I don't really know if humans are evil, but I'm one of them, and I know I'm not. So I give others the benefit of the doubt.
It's important to remember, when quoting Noam Chomsky, that he is an Anarchist himself. He's an Anarcho-socialist, so he's not arguing for beaurocracy or state socialism or anything of the sort. He's arguing for Anarcho socialism as opposed to anarcho capitalism because he doesn't feel anarcho capitalism is really possible. I'm also an Anarcho socialist and I see bitcoin as a definite plus for anarchists in general, no matter what our economic views. I think Chomsky would probably agree. |
|
|
|
I would also like to see this. I'm not planning on withdrawing any cash myself, but I do think the price is a bit inflated at the moment because people cannot withdraw cash and i want to buy bitcoins for cheaper than people are selling them.
Everybody wants to buy bitcoins cheaper than people are selling them  The price on bitcoinmarket is not far behind mtgox... everyone except the people who want to sell bitcoins for more than they are going for. |
|
|
|
|
I would also like to see this. I'm not planning on withdrawing any cash myself, but I do think the price is a bit inflated at the moment because people cannot withdraw cash and i want to buy bitcoins for cheaper than people are selling them.
|
|
|
|
|
RE middlemen.
Unfortunately all the available options are either inconvenient or assholey.
|
|
|
|
|
An easy way to put your paycheck into bitcoin is going to be an important step. Something that does not include a middle man such as paypal or pecunix or anything else.
|
|
|
|
|
Don't forget bitlist. With such a small userbase bitlist is actually more useful than an auction site because auctions in small groups are unpredictable.
|
|
|
|
Its not about violence its about people gaming the system when they see a weakness. Lets not forget they started this by taking property that isnt theirs. We just have to come up with a way to make it harder to do so.
In a way it's a good thing that scammers are attacking this early because it's weeding out the weaknesses in the system. Yes, but this attack didn't highlight a weakness in Bitcoin, it highlights a weakness in the many credit/identity based systems that the markets must trade into. This is exactly the kind of issues that Bitcoin attempts to solve, and does so quite well within itself. What we need is local markets, actual people within our own cities that we can go to and trade fiat cash for Bitcoin in person. When that day comes, then the system is mature. Difficulty in converting to/from fiat is a weakness. Also, people manage to use paypal quite successfully for a wide variety of business uses, including virtual services like subscription payments to World of Warcraft. Yes, paypal is a flawed system that is too easy to chargeback, there's nothing else that is as widespread and although interfacing between bitcoin and paypal is not required, it is extremely helpful. Better ways to prevent scamming really would make a difference. |
|
|
|
... the next time Bitcoin is featured in an article and the readers realize the loops they have to jump through, it will turn off the majority. Maybe we should shift the emphasis away from buying the bitcoins. Here are two ways of getting BTC that don't involve the use of an exchange, and are fairly intuitive for the newcomer: 1. The deal offered by bitcointo.com. Shop at amazon.com through their affiliate link, and claim back 1% of your purchase as bitcoins. 2. Sell something for BTC at biddingpond.com. The website needs some improvement (e.g. the help pages are useless) but the concept is clear enough. There is also the BTC 0.05 that newcomers can get for free from the bitcoin faucet, and of course you can generate if you don't mind waiting a month or two for some coins (using the stock client on an "ordinary" home PC). Until the bitcoin economy expands dramatically being able to convert bitcoins to and from fiat currencies is kind of vital. |
|
|
|
If another exchange wants to try again with PayPal, I think there is a safer way to do it.
MtGox used PayPal's merchant interface, which is the logical way to do it, but it's quite attractive to those who have stolen a PayPal account, because they can initiate the BTC purchase and everything happens instantly.
Instead, the buyer could request the exchange to use PayPal's facility to send an "invoice" by email. When the buyer receives the PayPal "invoice", they then make the payment. The process can still be automated, and is almost as convenient.
But someone who has stolen a PayPal account is unlikely to want to get involved with emails back-and-forth. If they can't just spend the funds directly, they'll probably go to another site where they can.
I hope someone starts doing this, whether MTGox or a new exchange. Paypal may be a crappy system, but it is what i have and it is what so many other people have that i think an easy interface between paypal and bitcoin is kind of vital. |
|
|
|
I agree this is too longterm.
what about DJI below 10,000 ( close or intraday ) before 12/31/2010.
100BTC
Not a bet I'd personally take. I expect it to drop that low by the end of the year. I expect the elections to be a bit of a kick in the teeth to the DOW |
|
|
|
I get my paypal money from doing tarot card readings on the phone, I don't really have the option of receiving my pament in any other form. If I can't find an easy easy way to turn paypal into bitcoin I may have to start trying to encourage people to auction some of it on e-bay. (hopefully with a buy it now that is not too far from the going rate)
Why don't you just start telling your clients that you also accept Bitcoin for your services, and let them figure out how to get them in their own way? Because then I would be diverting business from the company that I read through. That's against my agreement with the company. I can advertise independently, and have been trying to build up a bitcoin clientelle as well, but I don't have my own independent website set up yet. The potential income from the bitcoin market is pretty small since the overlap with people who desire tarot card readings is, currently, really tiny. Unless there's another tarot card reader for bitcoin out there I don't know about who got the other potential customers. Not enough clientelle to justify hosting fees. |
|
|
|
I get my paypal money from doing tarot card readings on the phone, I don't really have the option of receiving my pament in any other form. If I can't find an easy easy way to turn paypal into bitcoin I may have to start trying to encourage people to auction some of it on e-bay. (hopefully with a buy it now that is not too far from the going rate)
buybitcoins.com still shows as accepting paypal payments for bitcoin purchasing. Last I checked buybitcoins had 4 coins. And had that amount for a long time. I am pretty sure that site is dead. |
|
|
|
"I get my paypal money from doing tarot card readings on the phone" ahh-- so you're the one using paypal to steal people's money.  I have one satisfied customer who has paid for a reading directly with bitcoins actually. I prefer using bitcoins because then the customer does not have to pay until after the reading. I'm confident enough in my product to take cash after delivery. Can you say the same thing? |
|
|
|
|
I think bitlist is better for this than biddingpond. Since people are looking to sell things for specific amounts.
|
|
|
|
|
I trust several people on here well enough to escrow for a short period, Not for a 6 year period without some more solid contact info. Not because I have even a hint of a suspicion they'd steal my coins, but because I am concerned they might lose internet, or go to jail for being an Anarchist, or have their computers melt down, or whatever in that time.
|
|
|
|
you can sell them at a fixed price or make a start price that seems acceptable for you and you potential customers, but anyways ..
i guess ebay forbids to trade currencies.
bitcoin is not a currency. Currencies are backed by governments. fiat currencies are backed by governments. The backing of any institution, or none at all, doesn't change the nature of a currency; only potentially it's public faith. Is that how e-bay defines it? I know you can trade gold and silver on e-bay, I'm pretty sure you can sell Reichsmarks and confederate dollars on E-bay. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
