Yes, I've taken the view that it should not be touched with a long pole.
As a matter of interest, explain

Go on then, I'll bite, what is the name of this marvelous creation?

The Brave New World of Cryptocurrency



Do they have a "Bullshit Crypto Scam of the Year" category then?

Hello guys, when do I get the private keys to the washroom then?


Couldn't agree more, I'm putting "seriously human" on my CV.

 

I get quite a mailbox on this, subjects ranging from the "refund guarantee" not being honoured, to rebuttals of my math based on "bulk discounts"


There is no such thing as bulk advantage in mining bitcoin. 10,000 machines will only mine 10,000 times that which one will mine.
Manufacturers like Bitmain may give a small discount for very large purchases and economy of scale may save on peripheral costs (repair staff, admin), but any suggestion that huge discounts can somehow apply and change the maths involved is unfounded.

YouTube videos purport to show Gainbitcoin mining with Antminer S9 machines. There have been various versions of this made and sold, varying in hashpower from 11 to nearly 15 Th/s.
A top spec S9 may just provide the hash power sold by Gain in the form of 10 Basic contracts (10 x 1.5 Th/s).
The 10BTC they received for those contracts is not profit it's just a loan, counterbalanced in the books by their commitment to repay it and more...

Averaging the two main calculators, Coinwarz and Alloscomp, one S9 will mine 0.29BTC per month
Gainbitcoin need 1.00BTC per month from each S9 to pay their promised 10% return.

And that av ~0.29 per month is gross income.
No deductions made for costs....
electricity
capital investment
maintenance and downtime
administration
mining pool.

Mining with S9's or equivalent, currently Genesis, BW and ViaBTC take an average of 42% of gross mining income for these costs.
So, the biggest cloud mining operations currently available return 0.1682BTC net per S9 per month to their customers.
Gainbitcoin promise to return 1BTC net per S9 per month to their customers.
Where does the missing 0.8318BTC come from?
What possible answers are there to that question?
1) magic (unlikely)
2) other income (but Gain only sell mining contracts)
3) later investors' deposits (that would make them a Ponzi Scheme)

---

I'm trying, and failing, to understand this logic.
For every 1.5 Th/s contract that they sell, Gain promise to pay out on balance 0.8BTC. [(1 x 10% x 18) -1] over its eighteen month life.
Mining with that 1.5 Th/s for eighteen months gives them 0.522BTC gross income, around 0.30276 after overheads (not including MLM commission payments).
On every contract sold, they lose money.
When one contract ends after eighteen months, they sell the hashrate again and lose more money.
The only way they can avoid this is to not honour the 10% monthly repayment, or use funds from a source other than mining to make it.


How?
They are getting large amounts of deposits (loans) certainly.
If you go and borrow say $1m, you will have $1m in your hand. Is it profit? No.
If you pay the interest on the $1m and make a profit on top by whatever process you use it to finance, then you're making money.
Gain are borrowing at 10% per month to finance mining with a return of 1.682% per month.
Please explain where those maths are wrong, because
I don't buy yours.

Na, don't bother, just give them your money and come back in a while complaining that you're earning dust. 

Wallminer list a vast array of miners from many, many manufacturers.

I've only had a quick look, but two products on sale and apparently listed as available to order are Yesminer M10 and M20.
Yesminer is the subject of a fairly lengthy and highly negative thread here, which basically concludes that the yesminer machines are vaporware and that prepayers never received the (non existent) product.

How a site could offer vaporware for sale and be a legitmate reseller, I don't know.

Maybe the bath salts addled publicity hunter has signed up for Onecoin.

@Sgoswami



A since deleted comment by user sanjayGB on Reddit.

1) Are you sanjayGB on Reddit?
2) Why did you say GBMiners and GainBitcoin are not associated when they obviously are?
3) How do Gainbitcoin mine twice as much BTC for a given hashrate than anyone else?
 

Lol, yeah, the Wacky World of BitcoinTalk.
Or as a last resort, you could always dox Theymos.

It's good to see people attempting analysis, but the old saying of "There's lies, damn lies and statistics" comes to mind.
Also protip: beware the decimal point.

If GB miners and Gainbitcoin are synonymous, then 5% share of the hashrate will accrue 5% of the total mining reward (dependent upon luck), so it would be reasonable to say that their gross daily income would be in the region of 100 BTC. (Struggling to maintain 3%,~60BTC atm.)
That's only part of the equation though.
Resorting to the ridiculous to make a point, if I had an infinite number of monkeys (no offence to monkeys) and an infinite number of pieces of paper and pencils, then I could have them make an infinite number of calculations and mine an infinite number of anything.
The cost, however, would also be infinite.

Also a factor is the amount of future debt (mining contract repayment commitment @ 10% monthly ROI) that needs servicing from this gross income. This is unknowable without information about how many contracts Gain have sold.
Gain reminds me of Bitclub Network in some ways, MLM selling orientated not least. When BCN realised they had hugely oversold their hashrate, they just unilaterally cancelled early contracts.



This is not relevant to the fact that they promise a return of 10% per month (i.e. 0.1BTC) if you buy 1.5 Th/s for 1BTC from them.
At current difficulty, that 1.5 Th/s will mine 0.05604730BTC per month (gross of all costs).
Where does the missing 0.0439527BTC come from?
 
I'm uneasy with the use of the word "magic" when discussing cloud mining.


On that basis, would you have invested in Bernie Madoff?


This is speculation about speculation. Gainbitcoin sell mining contracts.

 

Why Mr. Bhardwaj does what he does and the mental processes behind it are unknown to anyone apart from him.

Edit: I drafted this post when I had 5 minutes earlier on, before bpanther edited his. Most points still stand though, especially the conundrum


I would be really interested to know.

Done a survey have you?

As the scam promoters have taken advantage of self moderating their thread here to avoid being called out, and are actively deleting any criticism of this unsustainable Ponzi, here's some background to it.

Same cheesy robot theme site, same absurd claims to magically return 3% forever, Larawith.me admin ran off with a considerable amount of BTC after being shut down by Telegram, who they were using for auto payments.
The admin promised to come back (once they'd seen how easy it was to scam kiddies who like robot graphics) and they have, with this decenter reboot.
The same thing will happen to decenter.me as Lara, whether or not Telegram get their ass in gear.
Currently being pimped by users like GlassICE and kelevra, decenter.me is just another Ponzi scam with new investors financing returns to older ones, until there aren't any more new investors.

---

Mods, please don't move this, it is not a Scam Accusation per se, it needs to stay in Investor Games to provide an antidote to the pimps' "withdrawals going great" posts in the other thread here.
What possible reason there can be for allowing scammers to use self moderation escapes me.

This is a bullshit thread, created for the sake of this sentence



Zarfund is an Africa based pyramid scheme.

OP has also stolen the main text of his post from the website of another gifting/pyramid scheme from Nigeria called, for some reason, WealthMasonPartners


I'm not sure of the nexus re OP, zarfund and wmp nor am I particularly interested, but for some reason it's ended up with a self referred Scam Accusation where he invokes logic, rain and soil and other things too clever for us mere mortals to understand, to justify these bullshit schemes.

Maybe it's suffering from the same problem as the Blockchain, overloaded with spam.

I just love intellectual/spiritual thieves.
Fuck off and take your pyramid shit, both wealthblahblah and zarfund with you.
And fuck your antecedents too.

Sorry about the Soil level of my comments, I really hope they don't disturb the Oneness you've found with what you proudly stand for: creating, supporting and justifying that most pointless of human endeavors, bullshitting for money.

Whenever you look at a shit sorry, altcoin, there's a number of check points that you can tick.
Is there a roadmap, a white paper, a pre-mine?
But in anonymous crypto, it's even more important to know the people behind the scheme and try and assess their character, find out about their track record.
They may be geek devs, honest but unworldly. They may be hustlers in search of the Big One, not necessarily liars but maybe a bit economical with the truth.
Or they may be serial scammers, deeply previously involved in one of the biggest Ponzi schemes ever, having done jail time for it and come back and reinvented themselves on the back of the Big New Thing, crypto.....

If you read a bit about E-Dinar, a strange organization keeps cropping up.
It's called "Change the World Together", CWT for short.

It's registered as a charity in Moscow, to an apartment address.



At the moment, CWT and E Dinar are on an Indonesian roadshow. The presentations are the usual type of glitzy hard sell, common to Onecoin and others. They even got a hand gesture to signify their allegiance, like Onecoin and Leocoin.
This promo tour is being led by the guy in the Moscow document, described as the "Chairman of E-Dinar", Alexei Muratov.



The last picture I saw of Muratov was back in 2013.



On the banner behind, you can see our old friend Sergei Mavrodi's face. For those of you who live under rocks, Mavrodi is up there among the great scammers of all time with his much imitated gifting scam called Mavrodi Mondial Moneybox, commonly known as MMM.
Mavrodi is big on the idea of "Change the World Together".
His version of it involves putting money into his pyramid in vast amounts and then having it frozen by the admin and stolen.
He "Changed the World" for many poor, desperate people, by driving them to suicide.

The reason Muratov is sitting in front of an MMM banner is because he was Mr. Big regionally for Indonesia, where he made "networking" relationships with the scum who are now conspiring with him to steal more of their countrymen's hard earned money thru E-Dinar.

 

Not only rep for Indonesia, but also India.
That didn't go well for our scammer friend Alexei....





Rs 2,000 crore was about $40 million at the time....