After a discussion I had with a user this morning, I am thinking about changing the LTC round time to something lower, I think a more reasonable time period would be something like 4-6 hours.
I'm all OK with that. The only question is how (when) to do it. The ideal situation would be to switch the time period when the multiport hasn't been on LTC for 24 hours since all shares of the multiport users would have expired. How will you handle this when the multiport has been on LTC within the last 24 hours? What will happen to the submitted shares when you shorten the time period? Yes, I am aware of this, it depends on whether the multiport goes back on LTC anytime today. If it doesn't, I'll wait until 12 hours past the last block we found when the multiport was on LTC. If we go back to LTC after the current FTC session, then I will wait until the multiport has been on LTC for at least 1 hours and do it then (reason is that at that point, we'll have approximately 50% dedicated miner and 50% multiport shares in the DB at a 4 hour window). After I shorten the time period, any submitted shares that are older than that will not be included in payout calculations. |
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hashrate calcs are not entirely accurate, and impossible to properly calculate when there's such a drastic increase followed by sudden decrease.
Stop avoiding the issue. You're not making any more money by mining this way, especially mining LTC for hours without paying out, you're not doing anybody any favors.
If you are a pool owner, you do your own hashrate calc based on the block numbers and timestamps, it's not very hard arithmetic, yet I see pool after pool screwing it up. Some people do stoopid things like take an average since the last diff change, or over the last 100 blocks, rather than say over the last 10min. which would be more relevant. I don't do my own hashrate calculations, there is no reason to. For scrypt coins I use the getnetworkhashps function that's built into the client. Even if that was off, for some reason, you can still see the dramatic difference between the last two difficulty dips and the previous ones. |
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hashrate calcs are not entirely accurate, and impossible to properly calculate when there's such a drastic increase followed by sudden decrease.
Maybe not, but when you compare them to the previous spikes and note that my hashrate has not doubled since then, and also note the fact that the difficulty has spiked even higher, it becomes more obvious. Maybe this chart will help you see the difference:  Stop avoiding the issue. You're not making any more money by mining this way, especially mining LTC for hours without paying out, you're not doing anybody any favors.
I'm sorry, but you're confused. We found 3 blocks while mining LTC for 9 hours this morning that were paid out, and a 4th that was orphaned. That is perfectly in line with the expected payout while the pool was on LTC. Please have your devs contact me about opening up my ARG port for direct mining. Surely they have some of that premine left, right? Or did they dump it already? |
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I think that due to the nature of this pool, the lower period of time is better. I would love to see other coins such as FTC, NVC, TRC to be reduced as well.
I think the period should be = Average time to find a block * 2.
I should note that this didn't become a major issue until recently, since the multiport used to be on LTC for much longer time periods before a) feathercoin came back into profitability and b) digitalcoin started having longer periods of high profitability which just happened recently. So people who have been mining on the pool for several months should be confident that their past LTC payouts have been reasonably fair. |
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I might be amenable to opening up the ARG port on my pool for direct mining. However, I do not see how that would help the situation.
If the Devs want this they can contact me privately.
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Hey Adam, get over yourself.
You're destroying a perfectly good coin for no reason. If you leave your pool on ARG, the diff will steadily rise to meet the new hashrate. Your pool will continue to find a ton of blocks, and bring in a ton of money for your miners on a coin that is profitable AND severely undervalued, even after doubling in price this past week. Instead, you come on, mine a smaller amount - one which means your small miners probably aren't even getting enough ARG to reach a minimum withdrawal - and then leave those of us who CARE about the coin in the dust where it then takes over 24 hours to get back to our correct diff because NO COIN IS OR SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO HANDLE 4000% HASHRATE SPIKES.
You can even see on your own pool's thread plenty of people complaining because you hop onto LTC for a while, then hop off, and never get credit for your work on LTC.
Do you not see how pool hopping DOES NOT work out better for you, your miners, OR the crypto currency community as a whole? Is this the type of practice you teach your kids? Screw everyone else, I'm having fun with an experiment?
You are essentially a single person in charge of a 400Mh/s botnet, and somehow you think this is okay?
It's not a botnet. Botnet implies that the owners of the machines connected to my pool do not know or consent to their miners being used this way. This is obviously not the case. It also has nothing to do with fun. My promise to my miners is that they will always be mining the most profitable coin (that I offer). If I do anything else I am reneging on my promise. The fact that the time-based PPLNS rounds for some coins are not optimally tweaked at the moment is beside the point. That is a problem that is easily overcome. Again, you have another 400MH beside my pool on the network when your diff drops. Even if I turn off ARG now, your coin will still have the same issue. |
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Hey Adam, get over yourself.
You're destroying a perfectly good coin for no reason. If you leave your pool on ARG, the diff will steadily rise to meet the new hashrate. Your pool will continue to find a ton of blocks, and bring in a ton of money for your miners on a coin that is profitable AND severely undervalued, even after doubling in price this past week. Instead, you come on, mine a smaller amount - one which means your small miners probably aren't even getting enough ARG to reach a minimum withdrawal - and then leave those of us who CARE about the coin in the dust where it then takes over 24 hours to get back to our correct diff because NO COIN IS OR SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO HANDLE 4000% HASHRATE SPIKES.
You can even see on your own pool's thread plenty of people complaining because you hop onto LTC for a while, then hop off, and never get credit for your work on LTC.
Do you not see how pool hopping DOES NOT work out better for you, your miners, OR the crypto currency community as a whole? Is this the type of practice you teach your kids? Screw everyone else, I'm having fun with an experiment?
You are essentially a single person in charge of a 400Mh/s botnet, and somehow you think this is okay?
I too have noticed that small miners take weeks to meet the minimum withdrawal for coins like LTC or NVC, and you can't direct mine ARG,LKY, PXC so you have to wait days for them to come out of high diff again before you can mine to meet minimum withdrawl. Minimum withdraw on my pool is only one coin. |
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Also you still haven't updated your topic to remove the 0% orphans claim, even though it's been demonstrated to be false.
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By the way I guess this means concerns about multipool being more than 50% are now gone right?  |
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So it's been almost 38hours since multipool.in forced ARG into high diff. In that time just 230 blocks have been mined, where it should have been around 4,275 blocks. So that's over 4,000 blocks that everyone, including the users of multipool.in didn't get a share of. The greedy rush for a quick 250 blocks wastes 4,000 blocks. It's relatively simple arithmetic to work out how many minutes in an hour a pool with around 400MH/s could mine a coin ARG for maximum sustainable profitability, instead of rushing like a bull at a gate and ruining it for all.
The end result of course, is that multipool.in users are forced to mine high diff, energy expensive, coins with a high hash rate like LTC, FTC or even DGC for hours on end where the can't achieve the majority of the hash rate, instead of the far more profitable low diff alt coins. Quite sad really.
Actually, according to my charts we were only around half of the hash rate the last time ARG was low. That means there is another entity with around 400MH+ mining on your coin when the difficulty goes down. Good luck finding them and I hope they're white hats and not someone planning to 51%!   |
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After a discussion I had with a user this morning, I am thinking about changing the LTC round time to something lower, I think a more reasonable time period would be something like 4-6 hours.
My rationale is the following: (Assumes ~400MH on multiport and ~100MH on LTC)
- Even at 80MH, block time should be about 8-12 hours. We don't want to reward people for shares they submitted much longer ago than that.
- When the multiport is on LTC, the average block time should be around 2-3 hours.
If we use 4 hours as the round period:
- LTC-only miners are not affected at times when the multiport has not been on LTC in the past 4 hours. It affects LTC-only miners who hop off to another pool more quickly, but not those who stay on Multipool.
- It only takes multiport miners 1 hour before reaching 50% of shares submitted in the past 24 hours (rather than 6 hours at a 24 hour round time). That means on average, the first block will be paid at ~75% and the next block will be paid at 100% of what the expected reward would be if we were using share-based PPLNS.
I am grateful for all of the constructive feedback I've received lately regarding the payout structure. Thanks to those who have contributed.
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LTC seems to have large block rounds (more hours).
Would it be so bad to keep LTC out of the multipool mining and use it just for dedicated LTC mining if someone wants to?
What is the rational reason for doing this though? |
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Are you saying that this pool is not fairly distributing rewards for found blocks? It was not only you who was not compensated for the shares they submitted mining NVC, but all other members of the pool as well.
This pool is only around for couple of months and its hash rate keeps growing everyday. Look at other pool which were around for a long time - how long did it take them to grow to their present hash rate, was it as quickly as multipool?
well i'm not saying that just me didnt get any reward, dont know where did you read that, just saying that i did not get any reward, you've proove me that in your answer, that is all. And i know it is a young pool, and i hope it will rise bigger. BTW the hashrate really isn't that small, we are #5 or #6 largest litecoin pool when the multiport is on litecoin. I don't know what I can do to convince people to move here from the 2-3 large pools. I'm open to suggestions. |
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yes this is the exact problem of this pool, because of that there is small hashrate, because everyone knows, its not more profitable than other pools, if it was more profitable, everyone will be mining in here. yesterday when i've been minig nvc for few hour, then it switched to pxc,
i had few shares, but i did not get any coins for that, any after a 24 hours like someone said in here. even it doesent show in unconfirmed, so now i dont know, if the pool didnot fiand any block, or i dont know now. other thing, but this one can be solved easily a quickly is that, that
eu stratum port was configured somehow badly and it was minig lky@1.3 instead of ftc@1.7
so im quite confused of this pool.
NVC shares only last 12 hours because it takes less time to find an NVC block. The point (the primary objective) of the pool (or any other pool) is to distribute the reward fairly once the block is found and not to compensate you for every share you submitted. if no blocks were found - there is nothing to distribute. Are you saying that this pool is not fairly distributing rewards for found blocks? It was not only you who was not compensated for the shares they submitted mining NVC, but all other members of the pool as well. This pool is only around for couple of months and its hash rate keeps growing everyday. Look at other pool which were around for a long time - how long did it take them to grow to their present hash rate, was it as quickly as multipool? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Multipool mining is not for everyone. If you are the type of person who likes to micromanage your miners, and watches for every hour what they're doing, you probably will not enjoy mining on this pool because there are definitely frustrating times (like when the LTC port goes for 3 days without finding a block). On the other hand, if you understand and agree with the theory that over larger periods of time the average reward will be higher, you won't mind the periods of bad luck so much and you'll appreciate the big payouts more (for example last week when I had just added PXC and it went to 600% and the pool made almost day's worth of rewards in a few hours.) |
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If you stop submitting shares, your average hashrate drops and so does your reward. So if you mine for 4 hours and stop, you will get paid for any blocks found within the next 24 hours, but your payments will be consecutively smaller for each block that is found. If you keep mining, your payments will remain close to the same. (depending on pool hashrate).
Sure, but isn't that exactly the problem with mining in the multipool? Let's say I mine LTC for 4 hours straight, then your pool switches my to another coin and you switch me within the other more profitable coins, my 4 hours LTC mining is almost worthless because in these 4 hours I could have made more earnings with the other coins. Or is this a wrong view? It depends on whether LTC finds a block within the next 24 hours. We have around 80-100 MH on the LTC port, dedicated, so it should find 2 blocks a day on average even if the multiport is not on it. But yes, it becomes more luck dependent if the multiport is not switching back to LTC. The LTC port has gone more than 24 hours without finding a block when the multiport wasn't on LTC, on the other hand it's also found 4 blocks in a day before without the multiport. |
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Would a solution be to rotate at least one cycle per day through each coin mined in the last 24 hours to preserve our shares???
Your older shares would expire. Here how it works: Every share you have found has a timestamp and would get rewarded for the next 24 hours for each found block during the 24 hour period. Thanks for clarifying that. So, unless we find a block in less than 24 hours everyday then we will forfeit some shares. Clearly we don't have the critical mass to mine LTC in MultiPort. Compare that to WeMineLTC where they've found over 50 blocks today, 6,000 versus 500 MH/s. So where would I get paid more if I left a miner dedicated to LTC 24x7??? On average (given current hash rate of multipool of around 450MHs) around 12 LTC blocks will be found each day (assuming dedicated LTC mining), so each found share would be rewarded around 12 times. So, multipool has critical mass to mine LTC. I agree for a dedicated LTC miner on MultiPool. I make more in MultiPort 7777. But, if 7777 does not spend enough time on LTC every day then I'm forfeiting shares. Yes, some shares can expire without any reward given to them (unlikely), on the other hand some other shares would get double or tipple reward. On average you are still better off by mining MP than LTC directly. Well it's not exactly double or triple reward. I think the easiest way to think about it is that you get paid for each block based on your average hashrate on that coin for the past X amount of time (24 hours in the case of LTC) If you stop submitting shares, your average hashrate drops and so does your reward. So if you mine for 4 hours and stop, you will get paid for any blocks found within the next 24 hours, but your payments will be consecutively smaller for each block that is found. If you keep mining, your payments will remain close to the same. (depending on pool hashrate, obv). |
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Would a solution be to rotate at least one cycle per day through each coin mined in the last 24 hours to preserve our shares???
Your older shares would expire. Here how it works: Every share you have found has a timestamp and would get rewarded for the next 24 hours for each found block during the 24 hour period. Thanks for clarifying that. So, unless we find a block in less than 24 hours everyday then we will forfeit some shares. Clearly we don't have the critical mass to mine LTC in MultiPort. Compare that to WeMineLTC where they've found over 50 blocks today, 6,000 versus 500 MH/s. So where would I get paid more if I left a miner dedicated to LTC 24x7??? If you want to mine LTC dedicated you will certainly get more consistent payouts at a dedicated LTC pool that has a higher hashrate than Multipool. That's not to say you'd get paid more. Our pool could have a lucky day and our miners could make more than the give-me-ltc miners. We also have the feature of switching to more profitable currencies automatically. It feels like it would be wise to leave a dedicated miner on 3334 and the rest in MP. While I certainly won't complain about having more dedicated hashrate on the LTC port, I don't think that's the most profitable thing to do  |
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Would a solution be to rotate at least one cycle per day through each coin mined in the last 24 hours to preserve our shares???
Your older shares would expire. Here how it works: Every share you have found has a timestamp and would get rewarded for the next 24 hours for each found block during the 24 hour period. Thanks for clarifying that. So, unless we find a block in less than 24 hours everyday then we will forfeit some shares. Clearly we don't have the critical mass to mine LTC in MultiPort. Compare that to WeMineLTC where they've found over 50 blocks today, 6,000 versus 500 MH/s. So where would I get paid more if I left a miner dedicated to LTC 24x7??? If you want to mine LTC dedicated you will certainly get more consistent payouts at a dedicated LTC pool that has a higher hashrate than Multipool. That's not to say you'd get paid more. Our pool could have a lucky day and our miners could make more than the give-me-ltc miners. We also have the feature of switching to more profitable currencies automatically. |
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I fail to see how this would be profitable. How would you move the funds back to the exchange? BTC-e does not accept wire transfers from US banks, and they're now charging 4% to deposit via OKPay.
Forget about getting funds into BTC-E, that is easy. how are you going to get funds out of Gox? |
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And that is telling you that open source is king!!!!!! Kruger coin offers services.....!krugercoun is not a copy but an inovation !!! It is a coin everybody wants to join!
What innovation has it brought to the table over WDC? Im not hating by the way, Im currently mining your coin with one of my rigs cause its profitable right now. But seriously, what innovation are you offering/plan to offer over WDC. Cause saying it ISN'T a copy when you didn't manage to replace the WorldCoin Icon in the task bar with your krugercoin icon is a stretch, to say the least... and considering the icon isn't an icon at all but just a badly cropped photo of a Krugerrand he pulled off the internet.. |
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