Reward system
Personally, I'm not a big fan of PPS. PPS comes in two flavors: high fees (lower rewards in the long run) or low fees (big risk for the pool).
Agreed, why not Proportional, you get paid for the shares you submit proportional to the total submitted by the pool once a block is found. Basically, once a block is found, the coins are split-up amongst all the miners based on how much work (how many shares) they submitted. Even if you switch to another coin, the shares you submitted will get paid once a block is found. Low risk for the pool operator, simpler payout calculations and no risk of miner's work not getting compensated. I vote for PROPORTIONAL  Proportional is a deeply flawed reward method, since it's vulnerable to pool hopping. I would consider CPPRSB, but it'd take time and a major recode to implement. |
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Reward system
Personally, I'm not a big fan of PPS. PPS comes in two flavors: high fees (lower rewards in the long run) or low fees (big risk for the pool).
Agreed, why not Proportional, you get paid for the shares you submit proportional to the total submitted by the pool once a block is found. Basically, once a block is found, the coins are split-up amongst all the miners based on how much work (how many shares) they submitted. Even if you switch to another coin, the shares you submitted will get paid once a block is found. Low risk for the pool operator, simpler payout calculations and no risk of miner's work not getting compensated. I vote for PROPORTIONAL The issue with porportional is that it would give the people with higher hashrate an advantage on the faster coins, since sometimes blocks are found within 15 seconds or less. When we're on MNC, for example, my 7970 is normally only able to submit 2-3 shares between blocks. If someone was mining at 200KH, they might not even be able to get a share in between some blocks, resulting in no proportional payout at all for that block. |
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CampBX isn't bad. Their site is slow as balls, but they offer withdrawal via Dwolla and the money shows up practically instantly in my Dwolla account. (Not like Gox's Dwolla withdrawal that used to take 2-3 hours when they supported it)
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So from now on, I think I'll refrain from speaking my mind in any more shitcoin threads, as it seems to have killed the goose WRT Argentum. Their network hashrate has halved since I started talking in that thread. Truth hurts I guess.
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I think it would be great if you make a payments for all shares submitted by user in one currency, for example in LTC. But such way you must make service with changing altcoins to ltc, and i can't imagine how to do that  I am considering doing this with one of the next coins I add, with PPS as the payout method. You would submit shares in that currency and get paid per share in LTC. However, I would not be able to do this fee-free, there will likely have to be a 2-3% PPS fee (which certain members would be exempt from) as well as some kind of exchange fee to mitigate my risk in exchanging a potentially volatile currency for a stable one. This would free users from having to maintain so many wallets and not having to worry about exchanging their coins. If it works out well with the new coin I would likely move most of the coins on the pool to the new payout method. Stay tuned. |
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Really love the pool. It takes the place of a cryptoswitcher/multiminer program almost perfectly. I did have two questions for you,
1) Is there any plan on adding either user set share difficulty or vardiff? I know I would love to just be able to set it to what I know my rigs like but not everyone knows what it should be set at.
2) Have you thought about either adding mec or if you don't want the hassle of another coin possibly replacing the mnc pool with mec? Megacoin is pretty profitable to mine most of the time and is overall much more profitable than mnc. Not having it is one of the reason I don't mine here full time.
Thanks again flound1129 awesome pool you got running here.
We actually had vardiff enabled for quite some time, but I disabled it a few days ago because there were some issues and I wasn't sure if some of them were being caused by the vardiff code. I will most likely start to re-enable it on some pools this week. I also have plans to allow users to set difficulty, but haven't had time to implement yet. I am considering MEC and FRK as the next two coins I add. |
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flound1129 you are an ass. Maybe someone should DDoS your shitty pool into history instead  . If ya wanna be in the big leagues you should be able to stop it, right. I have no doubt someone will try one day. If it was my coin I would just do a required update and make it so you never found a block no matter how much hash you had.
That's not really possible, and even if it were, the time wasted doing that which would be easily circumvented would be better spent focusing on actually making the coin good. But then I am an ass too, lol
Takes one to know one. |
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Hey could OP add my pool to the first post list? Would appreciate it.
Thanks.
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Just put in a maximum difficulty adjustment like FTC did and your problems will be gone.
This might work, but with the base hash rate only at 12MH probably not. Diff will be slower to go up, but MUCH MUCH slower to go down. FTC got stuck with a very high diff and even after the fork, i remember it was still stuck for another 2-3weeks. FTC was also heavily instamined, with those stakeholders coming together to buy their way out of that hole with rewards. I don't think anyone will come to the rescue of ARG. It is a good suggestion though, which does even out some of the shock of a diff change. The final solution might need a combination of factors in the end. I think we all agree that ARG needs to exist. The real shame here is the timing of the launch to coincide with the 20 or so other coins which were released for instant profits. And yes i have sampled most. If your devs want the coin to exist in the big leagues then they should use some of their premine to compensate the miners who are keeping it going. |
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Well at least our LTC bad luck streak is over... 4 blocks today lol
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Not much to weigh in here that hasn't already been said. I do agree ARG hasn't added anything technical to the crypto-currency realm, however, i do believe it has its place due to these points mainly.
I actually think ARG brings a lot to the table, go back and read the specs on the first page again. 32sec block rate - A nice balance.250 block diff re-target - Works out to about 2 hours when not deliberately high diff attacked! Could be a bit lower.64 million total ARG. Then increased by 1.1% annually, the rate of human population growth - brilliant idea!Block reward random from 1-5 - an interesting different approach.Mined blocks mature after 30 confirms - I like that, sick of waiting for 120+-Maximum block size increased to 10mb - future proofing-Maximum signature operations per block maximum increased to 100k - future proofing.Overall I think ARG has pretty much the best specs out there for a PoW coin, but of course you need more than just good specs to make a coin successful. Just put in a maximum difficulty adjustment like FTC did and your problems will be gone. |
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damn, yah got me there.
So what would happen if your multipool only switched to coins that had more hashpower than multipool itself? I'm surprised someone who has spent so much of their time on cryptocurrency, and presumably has or is making a bit of profit from it (either mining or building tech for it like you have) would be so arrogant and care so little for the negative impact they have on it (regardless of what you may think of individual coins, this one or others).
what's the impact exactly? Besides you not getting the profits you want? How about you don't list your coin on an exchange until it has a reasonable network hashrate? ooohhhhh, I think I see the problem. it is you who are after profits and care not what you destory for a quick few cents Please tell me what I'm destroying. 1) Not my coin But you are a competing pool owner who wishes his pool could mine thru those blocks in 2 hours like it could before when diff was low and keep all the coins. 2) What impact? Seriously? Have you read any of the posts from other people here?
3) Do you see the problem? Please share. Me running pools only has the same impact as you have on miners of the coin.
I see that people are pissed. That does not equal the coin is being destroyed. Imagine for a moment someone had done this in the early days of LTC. And those mining LTC on a constant basis had to consistently deal with 5000% network increases during every low diff period, then slog through the higher diff with a fraction of the hashrate. (assume LTC had a reasonable diff retarget like most new coins do now, including ARG, and wouldn't have gotten stuck at an impossible high diff, which it would have). Would it ever have gained the traction it has? Would it be at $2.50+ right now?
(note: I'm in no way trying to compare ARG to LTC in terms of merit, value, whatever. Just examples)
It's a different world now. As I said, someone with ~20-25 7970's can easily 51% your coin whenever they want to. Adapt or die. Your only real defense seems to be "well if the coin is any good it would easily be able to overcome this", but thats BS. Even now many argue if LTC actually has any real utility or whether it should be where it is. Would it really be where it is if someone was diff raping it at every chance possible during its early days?
My defense is that I am working within the parameters your coin devs have laid out in the code. If you don't like it, have them change the code. I agree that it's borderline exploitative, however, since there is no *real* commerce or any kind of important service relying on this coin (that I have been made aware of, please tell me if there is a hospital ER somewhere that is paying its heart monitor maintenance fees or something with this coin. lol.) The only real impact is that you and a handful of other suckers who have been snookered into thinking this coin is the best thing since sliced bread get less of it for your hash power. And maybe some people depositing and withdrawing it from a few shitty gambling sites have to wait an extra 15 minutes for their transactions to confirm. Meanwhile, I am raising awareness of your coin and putting it into the hands of hundreds more people who otherwise would never have heard of it, and might not dump it immediately if you give them a reason not to.To be clear: The coin is public now. You are not any more entitled to mining profits than anyone else. If you don't want my pool mining them, take the coin off exchanges, take the source private and only give it out to the people you like. |
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damn, yah got me there.
So what would happen if your multipool only switched to coins that had more hashpower than multipool itself? I'm surprised someone who has spent so much of their time on cryptocurrency, and presumably has or is making a bit of profit from it (either mining or building tech for it like you have) would be so arrogant and care so little for the negative impact they have on it (regardless of what you may think of individual coins, this one or others).
what's the impact exactly? Besides you not getting the profits you want? How about you don't list your coin on an exchange until it has a reasonable network hashrate? ooohhhhh, I think I see the problem. it is you who are after profits and care not what you destory for a quick few cents Please tell me what I'm destroying. |
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damn, yah got me there.
So what would happen if your multipool only switched to coins that had more hashpower than multipool itself? I'm surprised someone who has spent so much of their time on cryptocurrency, and presumably has or is making a bit of profit from it (either mining or building tech for it like you have) would be so arrogant and care so little for the negative impact they have on it (regardless of what you may think of individual coins, this one or others).
what's the impact exactly? Besides you not getting the profits you want? How about you don't list your coin on an exchange until it has a reasonable network hashrate? ooohhhhh, I think I see the problem. |
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We all thank you for your pools contributions to low diff coins. Where would we be without it! The positive impact on all those involved with the coin outside the 20min coinchoose window of profitability thank you.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. The points you raise, however, have nothing to do with the point I refuted.
It should also be noted that ARG does have virtually 0% orphans at its stable block generation rate of 30 seconds. It when it's flash mined and the block rate drops down to less than one second that they become an issue.
Yes, I understand your point. But as I stated above, we 'flash mine' MNC and LKY at low difficulties as well and have much lower orphan rates on MNC and comparable rates on LKY. ARG orphan rate is no better than other coins, your claim is bogus. |
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It's not big talk, and it resulted from actual testing done on multiple pools.
I would like to see what multipool's orphan block/total block ratio is as well.
OP implies that you won't even get stale shares. That is technically impossible.. He did say in perfect conditions. Wild difficulty swings aren't in those conditions. The difficulty is up to 1.279 after being raped by multipool.in yet again. Network hashrate: 18.72 MH/s when multipool attacked last it added over 400MH/s for 20min, which represented roughly 95% of the Network hashrate at the time. I consider anything over 51% an attack on the coin and it needs to be looked into. I expect it will be days before the difficulty falls again at the current block rate unless we can get some more hash power, or pump the price up to make it top the profitability charts. So all the theory on orphans is a moot point with nobody wanting to mine the coin! A coin that is not mined is not viable. How to stop or prevent this kind of attacks?! It's not an attack, it's people mining the coin. The coin's difficulty adjustment is badly tuned. Your developers are responsible for this. No coin can withstand a flash 5000% increase in global network hashrate. If anything, this coin's fast retarget will be its saving grace, otherwise the damage done would have been much more severe. Your hashrate is low because this coin doesn't offer anything, other than being a low difficulty cash cow every few hours. It doesn't even deliver on its stated gimmick of no orphans. That said, I don't see why anyone deserves to be able to mine this coin at low difficulty over anyone else. If the coin's not ready for prime time then take it off the exchanges, then you won't have to worry about anyone mining it. |
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It's not big talk, and it resulted from actual testing done on multiple pools.
I would like to see what multipool's orphan block/total block ratio is as well.
OP implies that you won't even get stale shares. That is technically impossible.. He did say in perfect conditions. Wild difficulty swings aren't in those conditions. The difficulty is up to 1.279 after being raped by multipool.in yet again. Network hashrate: 18.72 MH/s when multipool attacked last it added over 400MH/s for 20min, which represented roughly 95% of the Network hashrate at the time. I consider anything over 51% an attack on the coin and it needs to be looked into. There's nothing magical about 51%. A double spend was not attempted and will not be attempted by my pool. Your coin can be 51%'d by someone with a farm of 20 7970's at any time when we're not on it. You should be happy I'm keeping the low difficulty coins out of the hands of black hats. |
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It's not big talk, and it resulted from actual testing done on multiple pools.
I would like to see what multipool's orphan block/total block ratio is as well.
OP implies that you won't even get stale shares. That is technically impossible.. He did say in perfect conditions. Wild difficulty swings aren't in those conditions. The difficulty is up to 1.279 after being raped by multipool.in yet again. Network hashrate: 18.72 MH/s when multipool attacked last it added over 400MH/s for 20min, which represented roughly 95% of the Network hashrate at the time. I consider anything over 51% an attack on the coin and it needs to be looked into. I expect it will be days before the difficulty falls again at the current block rate unless we can get some more hash power, or pump the price up to make it top the profitability charts. So all the theory on orphans is a moot point with nobody wanting to mine the coin! A coin that is not mined is not viable. How to stop or prevent this kind of attacks?! It's not an attack, it's people mining the coin. The coin's difficulty adjustment is badly tuned. Your developers are responsible for this. |
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It's not big talk, and it resulted from actual testing done on multiple pools.
I would like to see what multipool's orphan block/total block ratio is as well.
OP implies that you won't even get stale shares. That is technically impossible.. He did say in perfect conditions. Wild difficulty swings aren't in those conditions. Even in perfect conditions it's impossible to guarantee no stale shares because you can't guarantee that a miner isn't working on a share from an old block. Re: difficulty swings, fix your coin's difficulty adjustment. |
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