You talk about importance of node numbers enforcing certain rules not for the first time, but how you know what nodes are economicaly important and what are basically worthless? Or you really believe 1 node = 1 vote theres many aspects to it.. theres many reasons for having a distributed decentralised network of nodes. things like (using torrent as an analogy) if your connected to 8 seeds and need to sync(your the leacher for now) and the seeds have 4 nodes of 485,000 blocks but another 4 nodes have 484000 blocks. your going to grab data from the 485,000 nodes as you define that as the most complete list. however you find out that the 485,000 nodes are on the old rules you end up orphaning them blocks and banning the nodes.. leaving you only seeing the 4 nodes with a height of 484,000(new rules) as that becomes the new visible highest height (complete chain) so its not the case of just relying on one source of data... nodes prefer to have multiple sources that way if one source is 'wrong' they can grab data elsewhere.. so its important there are multiple sources of data, and that the majority of those multiple sources have the same rules as you do.. thats why its best that there are more then just 70 nodes all run just by merchants. but there are 'backup's too. which helps put less strain on the merchant nodes needing to be seeds because people can grab data from other locations, should a merchant get shutdown or ddosed or just over strained by too many leachers trying to connect to merchant nodes. .. once you grasp the need for the decentralisation of the data.. you then can move on and grasp why its best that those decentralised diverse brand nodes also agree to the same rules as a majority, to avoid orphan drama. .. once you grasp that. you realise by having your node agreeing to the merchant rules you can spend with that merchant because they see your tx. also to flip the argument, if the merchant see's its only getting bad data and the majority of the community is agreeing to other rules.. the merchants would treat the most popular chain as the main chain. and the bad data least popular nodes as the alt. thus its not a sheep follow merchants who follow pools.. its about symbiotic relationship of consensus of everyone finding something agreeable. .. having grasped that..you can then move on and grasp that bitcoin is revolutionary because it doesnt rely on everyone just leaching off of one pool of data but each node validates independently which makes the network stronger and less vulnerable to central-point-of-attack vectors. it also allows sharing of data to not put a strain on a central point.. it also ensures no central point decides the direction.. .. things would /could go very wrong if everyone was a leacher to just lets say 70 nodes all colluding to a single cartel. and this is why consensus only moves the network forward when independant people agree that the new rules that are in benefit to the community.. by the community having nodes that have the most reliable chain that is acceptable to the majority. The only support/acceptance I find reliable is the statements from companies, and there seem enought SegWit2x support/acceptance from the important companies to guarantee 2MB. The only question remains whether there going to be split if 1MB gets enough holdout support.
signing a PDF is one thing.. changing a few bytes in a flag is one thing. but in the end the nodes should only flag when they actually have the code to handle what they are flagging. otherwise its an empty gesture that falls flat on itself when 'activation' occurs. EG lets say 80% want X and flag it,, but 75% actually are running A. X gets activated(false pretence). but then a clusterf**k of orphans because 75% are rejecting the activated rule. because they dont have the code to handle the new rule. they just waved a flag.
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instead of just making a node and telling people the possibilities and then letting it wonder free in an open decentralised manner.. the ICO concept is very much different
unlike bitcoin, which never began as a ICO, nor organised by a 'company' who made promises(contracts) to hand X premined coins you customers Y over a term...
i see ICO's becoming regulated just like 'shares' are.
ICO's will be hit by bureaucracy of the 'founders' home country. all because of how organised and centralised the concept of ICO is.
that said. most ICO's are just crap coins, so treat them like penny share trading if your gonna risk it. best advice is. only waste amounts you are willing to lose.
EG if you normally spend $20 on a evening take-out/fast food, which naturally/literally ends up in the toilet 6 hours later.. make urself a sandwich instead and use that $20 on an ICO.. that way you never 'lose' (british pun: never loo's)
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Segwit2x doesn't have a codebase or dev support last I checked. Unlimited has both of those (inb4 "but it's buggy", etc.).
segwit2x does have a codebase https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/blob/segwit2x/src/consensus/consensus.hsegwit2x now has code for a 2mb base block 33 if (!BIP102active(nHeight, fSegwitSeasoned)) 34 return MAX_LEGACY_BLOCK_SIZE; 35 36 return (2 * 1000 * 1000); 37 } ... which activates 3 months for th 2x after segwit 13 static const unsigned int BIP102_FORK_BUFFER = (144 * 90); .. but not really a Release Candidate so its highly possible the pools flagging for segwit2x are not running the codebase so all the flag waving of blocks is still kind of 'sybil' (empty/fake gesturing). so things are still up in the air. Remember that miners don't trust Core at all after they breached the Hong Kong agreement.
the hong kong/ late 2015 consensus round table meetings funded and sponsored by barry silbert.. is the same 'agreement' as segwit2x but atleast there is some code available. now we just have to see if we can get nodes to download it (once its finalised and reviewed for RC) to then get a NODE consensus... for pools to have confidence that if they made such blocks.. the nodes wont still be running old code to reject blocks bigger than (1*1000*1000). what people seem to forget is its not simply about waving a flag in a block.. its about consensus of nodes actually running code rules that allow bigger base blocks and consensus of pools creating bigger base blocks.at this moment the empty sybil flag waving will just cause segwit to activate, but no guarantee of base blocks over (1*1000*1000) being accepted because from bitnodes stats, it shows no one is actually running the segwit2x (btc1) codebase to enforce it p.s only reason i rant/repeat myself. is due to the biased censorship deleting my posts to hide the facts, so i end up having to repeat things just for the hope that some posts get missed out in the deletions so that they actually get read.. because alot of the facts just get deleted. i would repeat myself alot less in topics if it wasnt for moderation deletions
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a reference client should not be decision making.. but having a client that allows adaptability, and includes things as default when a consensus is reached.. not the other way round.
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It s called core.
What kind of core is not central?
One which openly allows people to contribute. There is a core team of devs within Bitcoin Core, but they don't create absolutely everything. The best way to make Bitcoin Core less centralised is to participate yourself.
There can easily be a different group of devs in the future, but if that's how you view centralisation then they will be just as "centralised" as Bitcoin Core is now. Couldn't have said it better myself... As I think someone previously said in this thread, developers are only "external" to Bitcoin. Adding more developers or removing more developers won't necessarily have an effect on the "centralization" of Bitcoin. many have tried to 'contribute' but found their commits declined because it does not follow the path agreed at the late 2015 BScartel meeting. the only commits that usually get accepted by 'independents' are spell checks or minimal error correcting. anything in regards to rule changes /upgrades, have to follow the BScartel decision
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blah
nope.. sorry but its devs that end up controlling things.. you only think pools have control because the DEVS programmed their implementation to avoid consensus and allow pools to be the vote. however pools are limited by the rules laid out by the implementations .. these rules are programmed by the DEVs .. in short. imagine if pools with the heighest hash power all decided one day they would make blocks using sha-3 guess what happens.. the nodes reject the blocks yep even if pools had exahashes more than any opposition, the blocks they make would get rejected. pools do not set the rules. devs do. and its the devs who have been trying hard to point the fingers at pools rather then themselves. EG luke JR programmed segwit to be pool initiated and it back fired, luke thought that h and his bscartel could easily buy the pools favour in the form of many all inclusive weekend parties.. but it didnt work so then devs decided to make proposals of POW nuking, mandatory activations.. but then try to hid that they are involved. .. in a better future.. what should happen is a 'reference' client has blocksize setting adjustable at runtime and the ability to download patches for bips. then the network as a whole can just flag what is desired by showing what features/settings are enabled..without a 'reference' client steering in only one direction based on what the devs of that client think is best EG no more 'lets make a office word package that in 2000 only has embolden text, then later underline.. but instead a wordpad where you can have it all and choose what you prefer. and have the ability to download new font packs(smart contract script) without demanding of the main software supplier having to have it bundled in when they deem fit
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bitcoin has never failed, the blockchain has always been working, nodes are up and running and spread across the globe, no exchange has ever suspended bitcoin wallet to investigate!
you seem to forget the 2013 Berkeley->leveldb event involving the issues with the locks. that caused alot of drama, including a period of time exchanges halted deposits/withdrawals to avoid issues until the drama was over. there is no point pretending something is perfect utopia and preaching utopia to the already converted. what is best is to accept there have been issues and there are issues and to learn from them and to fix them. EG some state that core is perfect and has no issues.. if this were true there would be no need for segwit or schnorr or increasing blocksizes or other things.
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good to see an implementation finally showing the main block size increase... and with a ~3 month from now activation.
seems i should keep my eye on updates daily, rather than sporadically(few times a month/when they announce RC versions)
im guessing things like this can change peoples opinions if all the other 'brands' followed suite with the same commits.. lets wait and see
........ i just wonder how many blocks are waving flags.. but not running the actual implementation that has the code. thus basically sybil flagging
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No use supporting a coin that are not accepted for payment everywhere. thats what matters most.. many people think its about price.. long term its about what bitpay / coinbase offer as the coin thats acceptable to their merchant tools/shopping cart API as for the exchanges.. pretty much all the coins will be on all the exchanges You are making contradictory statements (as always) It is no use supporting the coin which doesn't get traded (read listed) at major exchanges (and Coinbase is nowhere near being one). If we compare the impact of exchanges versus merchants on Bitcoin price, the latter will suck heavily as you yourself say ("pretty much all the coins will be on all the exchanges"). It should be obvious that most of Bitcoin value comes via exchanges, so Coinbase, Bitpay (or any other payment processor, for that matter) with their shopping cart API's will be utterly irrelevant if exchanges refuse to support a certain coin im not being contradictory at all, i just see things layers/dimensions deeper than most as always you think 'value' means price but value is utility anyone can have a coin with a large market cap anyone can cause a swing in the price but if you went to use bitcoin to buy something real.. and found out that the merchant tools (shopping cart) was using a different chain.. then your stuck with a coin that cant buy real things. .. as for the exchanges, most exchanges will offer swaps between the different chains.. thats where exchanges get their profits. from people doing swaps .. ok lets simplify it for many people instead of thinking about price of bscoin(segwit) bitcoin(legacy/classic) bitmaincoin(bitmains alt) and the fight for price. imagine coinbase, bitpay, purse, gyft and other real world purchase utility flipped to use litecoin for real world goods purchasing now imagine the impact of merchant services deciding a certain coin for utility.. and let that play into your scenarios.. knowing it has nothing to do with which 'bitcoin' has biggest price.. once you do that and come to that realisation.. and ran a few cause/affect scenario's... simply replace the word litecoin for any of the bitcoin upcoming forks.. and realise the same applies. its not due to 'price' but due to utility and decisions of services
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best thing is.. im guessing u do alot of sigcampaigns.. so instead of taking a daily /weekly withdrawal.. let your balance pile up and take a fortnightly/monthly withdrawal
(wording it in fiat terms to dismiss petty knitpick of random use of satoshi amounts which meanders away from the concept discussion)
EG if you make $1 a day stop asking for $1 a day and instead ask for $28 every 4 weeks
then when you get it ull have one unspend output of $28 instead of 28 outputs of $1.. to then use as a single input when you want to spend it
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There is no single "Segwit2x" proposal that you can clearly point to.
i have to agree with theymos all the 'promises' of increase to a 2mb base block miss out on actually including code that actually includes a 2mb base block thus all same half gestures/ empty promises since 2015
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Discussions should be as neutral and transparent as Bitcoin itself.
Updated the OP with some greater depth into the various proposals.
yet BU/EC: This is Bitcoin Unlimited or "Emergent Consensus", a proposal for miners and nodes to declare the size of blocks they are willing to accept. The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here. EC is not a BU branded 'product' BU brand call theirs 'Adjustable Block-size Cap' (ABC) commonly people call EC 'dynamic blocksize' which again is not a BU product seems by making EC a BU option. you will get people to basiedly not vote for EC it purely because YOU branded it as BU, knowing peopl will respond 'oh no i read on reddit that its bad bad bad' other implementations totally unrelated to BU use EC
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blockchain projects do not just mean creating an altcoin. it can mean a service
bitpay is a blockchain project trezor is a blockchain project merchant tools and data analyst tools to visualise blockchain data is a blockchain project asic manufactoring is a blockchain project smart contracts is a blockchain project retail support to accept crypto is a blockchain project conference organising for cryptocurrncy meetups is a blockchain project blockchain consulting clothing manufacturing featuring crypto memes/logo's is a blockchain project
there is much much more to it than just making an altcoin
So does cryptocurrency projects and blockchain projects have different development infrastructures? Can not any blockchain project be used as cryptocurrency? Technically this is not possible? Are the infrastructure already determined when developing? For example, can a blockchain project developed for copyrights be used as cryptocurrency? Can a project developed as cryptocurrency be converted into a different blockchain project? think of blockchain as the DNA of this whole new industry crypto currency is a sub category/product of blockchain emphasising on the 'currency' part.. this mean altcoins.. but even further into the sub category.. even if you want to do an altcoin/cryptocurrency project. it does not mean you are simply tied to only making the new altcoin.. you can make a business selling hardware wallets that communicate with the altcoin node. you can sell t-shirts and gear to advertise your altcoin you can sell specialised ASICS that mine whatever algo the altcoin uses.. there are many things you can do. .. now going back up to the umbrella term blockchain. a blockchain is not limited to 'coins' it can be used for DNS services, identity, product locating, system automation, smart contracts there is a very very large multitude of industries that can be set up and do absolutely different things from each other and still be doing 'blockchain projects' its a whole new industry division. project managers, developers, consultants, conference organisers, PR, manufacturing, advertising, auditors, accounting, product testing, lots and lots of different roles can emerge from it all
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real funny part is
all these bips pushing hard to "activate" segwit..
but no one will be able to actually make a segwit transaction when activated... there will be delays and excuses of why people have to wait for blockstream to code a version which allows the segwit keypair wallet function on mainnet
so dont expect utopia on activation day.. plenty more drama after that of getting people to download yet another version after activation and then the cluster f**k of drama of getting people to move funds from legacy keypairs over to segwit keypairs
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No use supporting a coin that are not accepted for payment everywhere. thats what matters most.. many people think its about price.. long term its about what bitpay / coinbase offer as the coin thats acceptable to their merchant tools/shopping cart API as for the exchanges.. pretty much all the coins will be on all the exchanges
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the OP is talking about legacy bitcoin (as it is today) vs the split of the august 1st bip version. nothing related to software 'brands'..
I would like to hear your thoughts about it,will there be a split or we will be able to get through with the upgrade without any issue.What ever may be the case i would stick with bitcoin and if there is a split i would happily sell them off for bitcoin because the fake chain wont last. EDIT : Damn a three way split. technically the main bitcoin would grow.. this is because instead of selling the main bitcoin for dollars (usually causing price to go down) people who dont wont the main bitcoin wont sell it for dollars.. instead they sell it on the splits orderbooks instead. thus less tanking of the main orderbook<>usd... and instead more volume on the main<>splits orderbooks but... speculation over-rules technicals knowing how day-traders work speculation will make people arbitrage between the splits and main trying hard to get the splits to have value by doing arbitraging.. so it can go any way, due to speculation. it all depends what the exchange owners and arbitraging traders want to play it
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i don't remember what these kids are calling the new possible split coin but it is certainly not called classic (they are calling it either JihanCOin or BitmainCoin). and the other is UASF coin. and the current bitcoin is bitcoin! and don't be so sure about prices if an split happens because you are not considering all the panic and FUD on all the chains, doesn't matter which side you are on! and not to mention all the manipulative dumps. you should either do something or sit and pray that a split doesn't happen august 1st became a date where one of the bscartel bips chose to start biasedly orphaning blocks to fake segwit support.. if miners chose to go for it..that chain will be BScoin then there is the nodes that WONT biasedy orphan blocks which is bitcoin as it is today.. but if the bscoin does get some hashrate, then there will also be a altcoin aswell (separate from bscoin) which will be the bitmain altcoin so if there is hashpower behind the bscartel crap.. things can split 3 ways
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OK, let's assume after August 1 this happens and we will have both coins.
I have 2 questions please:
1. Which one do you think will preserve the higher value? 2. Are you going to invest into the one with lower value then switch back for extra returns?
My answers: 1. Bitcoin 2. I'd buy some Bitcoin Classic only to exchange it into Bitcoin again later
Thanks!
I believe BTC will preserve a higher value over BTCC/BTU due to Segwit having more supporters by a good amount (I think). But I'm kinda thinking that it will be a bit close in the start, like 60-40 in ratio. 2. This is quite a difficult decision for me. If the price ratio would be like 80:20, then I would go with the higher for sure. If the ratio is close? Not sure yet. lol the OP is talking about legacy bitcoin (as it is today) vs the split of the august 1st bip version. nothing related to software 'brands'..
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each have flaws, each open up the network to new attack/spam/bloat vectors that can make things worse not better.
No. keep sticking your head in the sand lauda.
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ever thought that all the options are just weak and deficient and that we should not just 'settle' for good enough.
each have flaws, each open up the network to new attack/spam/bloat vectors that can make things worse not better. we should not just let devs get their way and settle for whatever they do.
if only devs were independent, rather than factions of BS vs 'the others' things would have moved on
what needs to be done is for devs to get off their thrones and start listening to criticism and fix the issues. not let the devs form a faction and send out their reddit scripts to hypnotise and distract the conversations away from the issues.
by saying 'its impossible' to get XYZ is a lie.. it is possible. but when the community want XYZ but the devs just want to offer is X+a or y+a or z+a but refuse XYZA, even knowing this drama can continue right up until 2019('late 2018'),
devs are not ready to give in and offer XYZA.. any time soon.. if ever
. what a true "reference" client should offer is the ability for users to turn off and on options, make choices and have settings..
then let consensus decide what goes forward. not spoon feed out v0.xxx every 3 months and wait for people to be hypnotised into following X
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