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16661  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:56:54 PM
and spammer can be dealt with by adding a new priority fee forumale that hurts spammers and rewards those that dont spam
Who are you to decide what is or what isn't spam based on some "formula"?

well if people want to fill every block by spending 144 times a day and they are not doing lean tx's then they should pay more.

EG not just a pay per byte, but a pay per lack of many confirms.
EG you pay 144 times more if you want to spend every block, compared to someone who only spends once a day.

the benefit is then if its not spam but a service that needs to send every block. they then move over to LN and save lots of fees

that way users that only spend once a day are not paying the price

here is one example - not perfect. but think about it
imagine that we decided its acceptable that people should have a way to get priority if they have a lean tx and signal that they only want to spend funds once a day. (reasonable expectation)
where if they want to spend more often costs rise, if they want bloated tx, costs rise..

which then allows those that just pay their rent once a month or buys groceries every couple days to be ok using onchain bitcoin.. and where the costs of trying to spam the network (every block) becomes expensive where by they would be better off using LN. (for things like faucet raiding/day trading every 1-10 minutes)

so lets think about a priority fee thats not about rich vs poor(like the old one was) but about reducing respend spam and bloat.

lets imagine we actually use the tx age combined with CLTV to signal the network that a user is willing to add some maturity time if their tx age is under a day, to signal they want it confirmed but allowing themselves to be locked out of spending for an average of 24 hours.(thats what CLTV does)

and where the bloat of the tx vs the blocksize has some impact too... rather than the old formulae with was more about the value of the tx


as you can see its not about tx value. its about bloat and age.
this way
those not wanting to spend more than once a day and dont bloat the blocks get preferential treatment onchain ($0.01).
if you are willing to wait a day but your taking up 1% of the blockspace. you pay more ($0.44)
if you want to be a spammer spending every block. you pay the price($1.44)
and if you want to be a total ass-hat and be both bloated and respending EVERY BLOCK you pay the ultimate price($63.72)

note this is not perfect. but think about it
16662  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:46:08 PM
there is no reason at all that in the next few years to push fees up so high.
Spammers can, and already have, influenced the fee market. This is not going to change.

and spammer can be dealt with by adding a new priority fee forumale that hurts spammers and rewards those that dont spam
16663  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:44:08 PM
can you even tell me why bitcoin was invented based on the comments in the genesis block
Which "comments" are your referring to? Please quote and provide a source.

the genesis block. can you not even find it?
16664  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:29:27 PM
Bitcoin is not a charity. If you want to help people in need, join Caritas or something.

corporate lauda.. may your comments show your corporate adoring mindset.

can you even tell me why bitcoin was invented based on the comments in the genesis block
or are you too deep in the corporate backside.. that all you can see is your own greed and the inner workings of gmax

there is no reason at all that in the next few years to push fees up so high.

in a few decades when pools need it. the onchain capacity should have naturally grown (not at GB by midnight) at a natural progressive node capable rate that even users paying just 10cents would combine to give enough funds to pools

16665  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:23:07 PM
so you showed the swiss franc..

have you totally forgot about the unbanked world of third world countries.
16666  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 05:33:29 PM
and then if anyone agree that micropayments can solved from LN what we need a block size increase? As i say even if bitcoin price double bitcoin is again very cheap,. 1-2$ for fees to transfer money is ridiculous cheap.

1. onchain fee's of $1-$2 .. your thinking about corporate america.. come on look beyond your window.. $1-$2=>20 labour hours in multiple countries
think about the unbanked!!

2. LN has limitations. Eg lets say you just want to deposit $60 for microtransactions.. to open-close = $2-$4 = 3-6% (ps even the LN architects are suggesting only using $60 amounts due to a few risks that LN has (blackmail, chargebacks, address reuse attack)

3. LN although can be open for a year. think real worls usage. can you predict how much you would need to spend each day, beyond say 2 weeks..(ps even the LN architects are suggesting only using $60 amounts, for a 2 weekish lock-in due to a few risks that LN has (blackmail, chargebacks, address reuse attack)

so knowing people are only using it on average for just some of thier funds (not whole hoard) and for a couple weeks (not eternity) then you start to realise that even though xapo, coinbase, changetip all have internal offchain 'swapping' .. onchain capacity still needs to grow to cope with the depositing and withdrawing and also the 'larger spends'

please note that saying people should lock their entire hoard into a channel for eternity shows that your not looking at the reality, risks and limitations but trying to create a utopian and false hope narative.

onchain scaling needs to grow because LN will just help services like shapeshift/xapo.. but those peopl paying rent or travel or fortnigtly groceries will still be onchain and fighting for room alongside all the LN channel open-closing.
16667  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 05:12:58 PM
give this facepalm to your beloved boy Roger Ver. He claims that bitcoin is an everyday coffee payment system. I personal see bitcoin as it is. A decentralised payment system to store value and to transfer value around the world without the needing of the banking system.

get passed the reddit scripts.

you will find that many are ok with LN as a side service. such as xapo is. such as coinbase, changetip, and shapeshift is.
for the faucet, day trader, gamblers..
but not as a REQUIRED service for all

pools dont give a crap about LN, neither do the other implementations. its reddit scripters insinuating what pools and other implementations want.

again LN as a voluntary side service is acceptable.. but NOT by pushing the fee's up by holding the blocklimit hostage with false promises and removing the reactive fee's to force everyone into permissioned commercial hub services

16668  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
And for sure bitcoin will not be good to buy your coffee. If you want this then you choose a wrong payment system.

so you went with the "buy coffee" reddit script
(facepalm)
16669  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 04:26:33 PM
I dont care who does a good tech proposal and segwit seems to be a very good tested proposal.

tell me what makes segwit a good tech proposal
i edited the questions to be more about end user (not code) this time

deal with the proposal
no quoting reddit sales pitches or information of hope, dreams, utopia..

answer this.
1. at real world end user benefit. what can be guaranteed to happen that is network wide and of guaranteed benefit TO ALL when segwit activates.
please dont reply yet. the next question gives you a hint


2. at real world end user benefit. what can be guaranteed to happen that is network wide and of guaranteed benefit TO ALL when segwits keypairs are allowed long after segwit activation.
please dont reply yet. the next question gives you a hint

3. please describe features that are guaranteed features that are not possible without segwit done as a softfork
16670  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 03:55:26 PM
ok time to test your knowledge.

you seem to really love blockstream.. but lets put blockstream aside and instead deal with the code.
no quoting reddit sales pitches or information of hope, dreams, utopia..

answer this.
1. at code level and real world end user benefit. what can be guaranteed to happen that is network wide and of guaranteed benefit TO ALL when segwit activates.
please dont reply yet. the next question gives you a hint


2. at code level and real world end user benefit. what can be guaranteed to happen that is network wide and of guaranteed benefit TO ALL when segwits keypairs are allowed long after segwit activation.
please dont reply yet. the next question gives you a hint

3. please describe features that are guaranteed features that are not possible without segwit done as a softfork

4. last question.. if segwit was created line for line identical.. no changes at all.. but was wrote by hearne and the R3 crew.. would you still sing segwits glory
16671  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 03:46:41 PM
this guys has not any logic at all imo.
They talk about decentralisation and the same time they want to break consensus bitcoin system and install a president to Bitcoin.

ADAM BACK - blockstream president

you need a doctor man. and i am serious Tongue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockstream
Quote
Company

The company is focused on developing bitcoin applications specifically sidechains, as well as other applications.[2][3] Blockstream has raised $76M to date from investors including Horizons Ventures and Mosaic Ventures.[4] [5][6] Blockstream employs several prominent bitcoin developers, including Adam Back (President, Blockstream), Gregory Maxwell (CTO, Blockstream), Mark Friedenbach (Co-founder, Blockstream), Pieter Wuille (Bitcoin Core developer), Samson Mow (CSO), and Christopher Allen (co-author of IETF Transport Layer Security.[7][8][9] Blockstream is one of the largest contributors of funding for Bitcoin Core.[8]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/time-moon-not-fighting-says-blockstreams-president/
Quote
Adam Back, the President of Blockstream – a company which employs or contracts numerous developers of Bitcoin Core, Litecoin and the Lightning Network, including Pieter Wuille, Gregory Maxwell, Christian Decker, Gregory Sanders, Glenn Willen, Warren Togami, Luke Dashjr, Mark Friedenbach, Jonas Nick, Rusty Russell, Patrick Strateman and Jorge Timón – has called for all to “collaborate on a unified coin.”
16672  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 03:41:42 PM
this guys has not any logic at all imo.
They talk about decentralisation and the same time they want to break consensus bitcoin system and install a president to Bitcoin.

ADAM BACK - blockstream president

16673  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 03:40:09 PM
dynamic blocks as Bu propose give a huge power to miners and the opportunity to them to form a cartel and a kind of Opec for fees in bitcoin. Dont expect anyone to agree so easy in this crap.
your reading the reddit scripts not code
Miners is here to serve the network and not to govern it.
i agree and the many dynamic implementations INCLUDING BU are about user nodes having 2 limits.. an upper limit. then below that a preference limit..
pools only move to what the majority accept as a lower limit
EG consensus.h 8mb    then policy.h 1mb-7.9mb . and pools only go to what 75%+ agree on what policy.h agrees with and tells the 25% under that policy preference that their policy preference can gt shifted to align with the other 75%..
EG consensus.h 8mb    then policy.h 75% deem 2mb ok
the ones lingering at 1mb will have thier policy moved to 2mb . or if not dynamic will see they wont sync to the network

dont read the reddit scripts of "gigabytes by midnight" and start thinking rationally and logically

And why you has this psycho with blockstream? this blockstream developers has maintained the network an always propose tech solutions to bitcoin and for sure not harm it.
1. removed priority formulae without replacing it with something better
2. removed reactive fee in low demand and replaced it with average fee to keep fee's up even when demand is low
3. prevented any real network wide onchain growth for the last 2 years with half baked gestures that have no guarantee

Can i ask you what Roger Ver has done for bitcoin network all of this years?

again your stuck in the roger vs reddit script. think beyond this.
but google can help you out.
memory dealers,
bitinstant arbitrage system before ripple/liquid,
plus other things.

My answer is MTgox and this community split and division.
again all you have rea is the reddit scripts not the whole picture

Can i ask you what Jihan Wu have done for bitcoin network?
jihan is only a small part.. definetly not 68% of the pools.. wake up!!
bt jihan has done more for the ASIC community then lets say GHASH or BFL
but you should also research the other pools and asic manufacturers that make up the 86% objecting/abstaning

My answer is only to form a cartel and break decentralisation.
If we want bitcoin to be the future payment free payment system then this will not happen with nodes that runs through big datacenters and with a mining cartel that can change consensus rules whenever they want.

lol here we go again with the reddit "gigabytes by midnight" rhetoric.. wake up
nodes set their limits and pools follow below the majority. thus is not going to suddenly go jumping to stupid amounts.. if nodes cant handle it the the network doesnt go passed it.
get out of the reddit blockstream best case utopia. anything else worse case doomsday.. atleast start being critical of blockstream if you really want them running it.. dont be an ass kisser.. be the ass whipper and dont hold them on a pedestal, hold them to account

EG 8mb is measured as the 'node can handle' capability this year. (consensus upper limit this year)
and dynamic policy becomes the extra safe preference below that

EG much like satoshi's 1mb consensus and 250k policy in 2009-2011
EG much like satoshi's 1mb consensus and 500k policy in 2011-2013
EG much like satoshi's 1mb consensus and 750k policy in 2013-2015
EG much like satoshi's 1mb consensus and 999k policy in 2015-2017
16674  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 02:48:17 PM
and if you are like that how is possible to support scammer guys like Roger Ver or miners like Jihan Wu. This guys only want to form a cartel and to control bitcoin.

your reading reddit stories

1. im for dynamic blocks so that we as a community dont need to beg to devs for them to spoon feed us new block sizes.
meaning users get to change settings themselves at runtime.
meaning no dev control.

do you understand diverse decentralisation.

2. you think the debate is about ver+wu vs blockstream.. no its blockstream dictatorship vs many many implementations and pools saying no. but the redit crowd are just pointing the finger at one direction to try distracting people from looking deeper at blockstream as the culprits
.. remember if you are thinking "but pools shouldnt dictate the rules".. guess what they dont.. only in the blockstream(core) case blockstream BYPASSED node consensus.. .. the pools didnt do anything.. so dont blame pools. (which there are 20+ of no just 1)

3. other implementations are just plodding along waiting for full node and pool (proper symbiotic full network consensus) without threats or violence. without deadlines or deceipt.
16675  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 02:39:34 PM
what is you favourite shitcoin? i can predict that you not hold a single bitcoin.

i hold many bitcoin and i gave up trading altcoins in 2014.
my life is now more my own leisure, say and do as i like. my landlord accepts bitcoin. i buy food, travel with bitcoin.

i dont even bother looking at the altcoin sections, to me they are all just pump and dumps.

the only one i consider having hope is from viewing how the blockstream sponsors and partners are finger deep into litecoin and where coinbase with a click of a button can easily flip to allowing hundreds of thousands of merchants accepting litecoin. and the blockstream sponsor cartel and partners (BS, DCG, coinbcase, bitpay, BTCC) all jump over and build on litecoin as their sandbox before moving to hyperledger

with that said i havnt touched litecoin since 2013, where i threw all my litecoin at a giveaway event
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145201.msg1540606#msg1540606

im full in bitcoin. and have my hoard of bitcoin stashed on paper wallets which i have not touched the majority of since 2014, happily living on many coins i didnt cold store which can keep me going for a few years before even caring to look at my cold store
16676  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 02:28:35 PM
Lumping BU and segwit together in that same sentence is a terrible mistake. Segwit has 100x more coders that worked and tested it, and it has been LIVE on testnet for a very long time now, having received 1000s of times more testing than BU has. There is no "rush" with segwit. It was developed slowly and meticulously, and has been audited and tested by many very capable coders. The same can NOT be said about BU.

until last month when gmax found out his going soft approach Luke JR promoted wasnt as soft as he thought because gmax found out only last month that it ran into compatibiliy issues with ASICS that PRE-DATE segwit code.

also last year it took months to convince devs and get passed their ego's about the anyonecanspend. but instead of writing a version that would have been a full network upgrade and an oppertunity to add real features in. they continued as is and done a work around by telling people not to use segwit wallets until long after activation (killing part of their backward compatibility promise) and also by reinforcing their control of a tier network by making older nodes to be downstream of the network.

making segwit such a cludgy bit of code with no promises. just 'expectations' and many if's and maybe's
16677  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
er..so the bitcoin core guys can't get a roundtable together
Correct. Bitcoin Core as a singular entity does not exist. Nobody who contributes to Bitcoin Core can sign/agree to anything on behalf of Bitcoin Core.

liar lair lair
there are atleast 2 round tables a year (ofcourse they are closed door meetings by invite only.. where the main devs and their corporate sponsors plan the roadmaps)

stop trying to brush that crap under the carpet.

the "independent" devs can only request a bip. but its the main devs paid for by blockstream that are the gate keepers of what gets accepted or not

look at the bips.. Luke JR
look at the mailing list .. rusty russel
look at the tech discussion board here gmax

then when it comes to actual code. if gmax or the other paid devs find any reason to nACK a idea.. forget any chance of convincing them otherwise

lauda will you stop wearing the blockstream defender cap, thinking they should own bitcoin. and start wearing a bitcoin cap.
you know the one that thinks about bitcoin over the next few decades and not blockstreams 2-5year plan

you can pretend all you like that blockstream and their interns are independent. but its plain to see that if any of the devs did go independent they would get rekt.

16678  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 10:53:58 AM
Hmm..

Franky1 - We ALL want multiple implementations of the same protocol. I agree. Healthy.

We don't want multiple competing protocols. That would be madness.

------------

What I find very hard to swallow.. is that BU does not fork the VERY LATEST STABLE VERSION OF CORE.. and then add the ~100 lines of code that change it into BU.. Then patches can still be added to both, etc etc etc..

It's really that simple, and the fact that they don't do that.. is what upsets me.. and makes me think they are morons. I can't condone the Bitcoin network being run by morons. That's going to end in disaster.

bitcoin is bitcoin

CORE should not own bitcoin!!!!

NO ONE should own bitcoin
we should not be blindly following core and only doing what core want. not until atleast core independent devs get rid of their dependency on being goverend and moderated and gatekeepered by blockstream.

that way the independent core devs can happily help out the rest of the community without fear of getting REKT

what would be rational is this
ALL implementations. including core should have versions of highly discussed and popular bips.

EG
btcd (wrote in go) should have 3 versions A dynamic. B twomerkle segwit. C dynamic and one-merkle segwit
core  should have 3 versions  A dynamic. B twomerkle segwit. C dynamic and one-merkle segwit
bu  should have 3 versions one dynamic. A dynamic. B twomerkle segwit. C dynamic and one-merkle segwit
(i could list more 'brands' but you get the idea)

where all brands help each other out to write the best versions possible. no brand camping..no REKT, no pointing fingers

and none of them activate the new "protocol" until there is high majority of the community accepting a favourite 'protocol'
this would be done by both a node consensus followed by a pool consensus.

that way its no longer about giving control to any brand because each brand offer the same 'protocol' choice
16679  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fake Blockchain Conference on: April 25, 2017, 08:00:01 AM
there have both in fiat and crypto been many scammers setting up fake events and getting people to buy tickets for things that will not happen.

google things like timeshare scams.
google things like fake conferences

now there are things to look out for.
when you notice a conference, there are usually details of where it will be held so that people can book their travel arrangements. use thse details to check if the event is even listed at the location and then check who to contact about the event, to ensure your handing funds to the real organisers.

because its not just about pretending to offer a conference that does not exist. but also phishing to pretend to be the official organiser/ticket seller of conferences that do exist.

this has even been the case for things like the olympics where fake ticket sellers prtend they are the official olympic organisers
16680  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yep.. BU absolutely definitely possibly maybe ready for prime time.. on: April 25, 2017, 07:21:59 AM
This just goes to show that we should not rush into options such as BU and segwit.

Just imagine what would happen if we rushed to implement bitcoin unlimited and this happened, the price would drop significantly. Hopefully we will see a permanent fix for this in the future because this is the third instance of this happening. The numbers should be back up soon but the coders need to fix whatever bug is causing this, It's the third or fourth time that I've seen this since February.

the issue is not about segwit vs BU

the big picture is peer network vs tier network
(because segwit 'features' are empty gestures... the only long term network wide effect of segwit is the tier network)
then below that

dynamic blocks less reliant on dev control vs segwit reliant on dev control

there are MANY implementations out there, not 2. but the reddit crowd are only mentioning 2 because they want to make it sound like an election for who controls bitcoin. by making people think there are only 2 options to choose from.

the reality should be to realise that there are a dozen different implementations at the moment. and where the diversity allows a proper independent choice of brand. where by the rules upgrade only when the majority of the community can find something they can all agree on.

and to keep our mind open to a diverse decentralised peer network, rather then a dependant tier network. this prevents any brand from doing a half assed gesture of temporary drama of features that wont actually meet expectations

if your first thought is to attack anything thats not core. then its time to stand back and ask yourself are you defending the code or the devs.
in short.. if all the lines of code were the same. would your stance change if say hearne wrote segwit

bitcoin is code. if you prefer to only care about the devs that can come or go.. rather then what could happen to bitcoin in the next 120 years, then stand back and spend a few minutes thinking about things

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