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16401  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [SHOCK] Core dev and Blockstream employee tells bitcoin users to use fiat! on: June 02, 2017, 07:45:45 PM
Some guy said something!!!! OMG, this must be huge!!!?  Huh
 Grin

"some guy"
the Bips tower guard who refuses entry to anything not friendly with king blockstream tell you if you dont like the direction king blockstream is going use fiat....

shows how controlled bitcoin is.
bitcoin meant to have no barriers of entry and if the bips tower guard is so arrogant to not want opposition. then he should not be the guard.

replace him
get someone else in control of the bips that wont shut down idea's purely because they do not lead to the blockstream emerald city via their roadmap


imagine it this way.
1990's microsoft make word '95. someone suggests a new feature.. and bill gates shouts if you dont like it my way then go use a marker pen...
 microsoft word would hav not grown to be as useful as it is now. it would have just been notepad
16402  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [SHOCK] Core dev and Blockstream employee tells bitcoin users to use fiat! on: June 02, 2017, 07:36:57 PM

Now try to address the dilemma I stated

If increasing block size is so urgent as you say, why miners don't just hard fork Bitcoin (given their mining monopoly)?

because consensus (real consensus) not the reddit propaganda crap the fudsters script... REAL consensus doesnt work by pools simply making bigger blocks.
those bigger blocks would get rejected in 3 seconds
16403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [SHOCK] Core dev and Blockstream employee tells bitcoin users to use fiat! on: June 02, 2017, 06:45:32 PM
Until a few months ago, no one talked about satoshis per byte. For years now transactions have been so cheap that you could have addresses with lots of tiny inputs, and it would still cost only 0.0001 or 0.00005 BTC to send. Since I was just a user sitting behind the driving wheel, clueless as to what an alternator or a distributor was, I paid absolutely no attention to the size amounts coming into addresses. Now suddenly, the truth comes forward, and it can now cost tens of dollars to move out smallish amount of bitcoin in an address. It can also cost a still reasonable amount, if you only have one input in an address that you're  spending.

Anyway, now we all know better, Satoshis/byte is a real world thing now, and smallish amounts of BTC will be sent less and less frequently, sending bitcoin on chain will not be for tiny amounts anymore, fees will be more reasonable once this turnover of small inputs finishes, and we'll all adjust our usage habits.

everything you said is due to CORE removing many fee control mechanisms.
the cost can actually be eleviated by bringing in a NEW 'priority fee formulae'

which the fee rises not by how much you spend. but more so how soon you want it confirmed.
take this one as an example

here is one example - not perfect. but think about it
imagine that we decided its acceptable that people should have a way to get priority if they have a lean tx and signal that they only want to spend funds once a day. (reasonable expectation)
where if they want to spend more often costs rise, if they want bloated tx, costs rise..
obviously those wanting to spend many times a day can benefit from LN

which then allows those that just pay their rent once a month or buys groceries every couple days to be ok using onchain bitcoin.. and where the costs of trying to spam the network (every block) becomes expensive where by they would be better off using LN. (for things like faucet raiding/day trading every 1-10 minutes)

so lets think about a priority fee thats not about rich vs poor(like the old one was) but about reducing respend spam and bloat.

lets imagine we actually use the tx age combined with CLTV to signal the network that a user is willing to add some maturity time if their tx age is under a day, to signal they want it confirmed but allowing themselves to be locked out of spending again for an average of 24 hours.(thats what CLTV does) to win lower fee

and where the bloat of the tx vs the blocksize has some impact too... rather than the old formulae with was more about the value of the tx


as you can see its not about tx value. its about bloat and age.
this way
those not wanting to spend more than once a day and dont bloat the blocks get preferential treatment onchain ($0.01).
if you are willing to wait a day but your taking up 1% of the blockspace. you pay more ($0.44)
if you want to be a spammer spending every block. you pay the price($1.44)
and if you want to be a total ass-hat and be both bloated and respending EVERY BLOCK you pay the ultimate price($63.72)

note this is not perfect. but think about it
16404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Help me understand the ownership and provenance of the technology behind Bitcoin on: June 02, 2017, 06:13:38 PM
well there are many ways to prevent forgery, like this
firstly
take the example above of your address 1E7em3nT5AdDr35s

but this time imagine that the land registry had to be involved in the first 'official' stamp of approval. to vaildate it..


your address 1E7em3nT5AdDr35s is combined with another address 1L4ndR3g15tryAdDress belonging to the land registry service
these 2 addresses form a multisig
3E7em3ntL4ndr3gaDdre5s

and that address makes the 'log'/'registration'
3E7em3ntL4ndr3gaDdre5s (0.05) =>  unabletodecode
script decoded: DoL L594729

by it being a dual signed 'tx' by both sides
this then becomes the 'genesis log'. (proved it was official)

where you can prove you are you by signing a message
'i Mr element of 72 main road, klondike, alaska, own 1E7em3nT5AdDr35s'
and hand out the public signed message, signed using 1E7em3nT5AdDr35s to anyone wants to query it

now when you sell land you can sell the deed on and just 'spend' the tx with the L594729 token to the intended recipient. no longer needing the land registry service to be involved at each sale.. because the taint of the 'tx' shows the original official genesis log of registration..

so now the only real owner of the land is the latest owner of the token DoL L594729 which has a 'tx' taint  that goes back to the genesis tx of said token
16405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [SHOCK] Core dev and Blockstream employee tells bitcoin users to use fiat! on: June 02, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
Some altcoin will take the throne if bitcoin doesn't change. Things change... deal with it or be pushed out of the way.  Pigs get slaughtered.

And that most likely will be Litecoin

Regarding the noise raised by the OP, I have heard many people claiming that miners have been screaming for years about the blocksize increase. If it is really so (I don't know, but let's assume that) and the blocksize increase was as required as they have been screaming, what prevented them from introducing this increase on their own? Okay, some dudes would readily say that they want consensus but if there is no consensus may be the bigger blocks are not in fact such an urgent feature as the miners are pretending it ti be?

more like any attempt to make a implementation that offers it gets slammed with rekt campaigns.
yet when core introduce something different they want everyone else to follow.
but then pretend they dont 'add anything new' EG they dont want to add replay attack protection as thats the job of the opposition
but then pretend they dont 'add anything new' EG dynamics.. as thats the job of the opposition.

its like their road or F off back to fiat

a stable 'reference' client should allow all the bips and then have options/'switches' for users to enable and disable depending on which route consensus follows.
core should not be the dictators. but at most facilitator
16406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [SHOCK] Core dev and Blockstream employee tells bitcoin users to use fiat! on: June 02, 2017, 05:05:55 PM
you also have Gmax saying that all bitcoin developers will move over to litecoin at 57m30s of video below
and how he is happy to help litecoin..
https://youtu.be/LHPYNZ8i1cU?t=57m01s

yet any software 'brand' that is not blockstream/DCG endorsed he wont touch

follow
coblee(litecoin inventor) ->coinbase->DCG
boblee(coblee's brother) ->BTCC->DCG
gmaxwell -> blockstream -> DCG
luke Jr -> blockstream -> DCG
RustyRuss(LN) -> blockstream -> DCG

and ofcourse
barry silbert(DCG)-> alansilbert(capitalone healthcare)->hyperledger
16407  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Help me understand the ownership and provenance of the technology behind Bitcoin on: June 02, 2017, 04:46:47 PM
adding onto what brewmaster said as he covered part of what i was going to say

then for the layman part


imagine you own
1E7em3nT5AdDr35s    address

usually you go on to blockchain.info and see lots of transactions

1R4ndomAddr3s5 (0.1) =>  1E7em3nT5AdDr35s (0.05)
1R4ndomAddr3s5 (0.1) =>  1R4ndomAddr3s5 (0.05)

now imagine
1E7em3nT5AdDr35s (0.05) =>  unabletodecode
script decoded: DoL L594729

which refers to
16408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What type of chatbot you would like to see? on: June 02, 2017, 12:09:01 PM
I have talked with one developer and he can incorporate a whole exchange into a single chat bot. You will tell the bot whether you want to buy or sell btc and then will ask how would like to pay like Bank, Webmoney etc and you pay right away on it. There will be a escrow feature as well.

oh so not a chatbot for newb's to learn about bitcoin... but an exchange service.... like an non human/automated irc.bitcoin-otc
16409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What type of chatbot you would like to see? on: June 02, 2017, 11:55:08 AM
Hi,

So i am looking to make a first bitcoin chatbot! In which fields do you think they can help us in better way and save our time?

Let's brainstorm!

Bitcoin chat bot is not that easy to make because it is very complicated and a chat bot will help the people who are in need and even a person doesn't have the knowledge to help all the kind of problems that we are currently facing now so i think it is just a complicated project to make and it will take a lot of effort before you done that well.

not complicated. its just using a similar algo as google search.. grab keywords from text box, show response that contains most keywords
where the answers are refined if the keyword(s) is combined by 'who', 'why', 'where', 'when', 'how', 'what', 'which', 'will', 'could', 'should'

then the algo gives a more precise response.
its more time consuming than anything.

usually if a query doesnt get a good answer the query is held and then the dev builds better responses for next time.
usually in such an event the algo has set 'error' responses like
"dude! ask again, but without the waffle".. followed by
"Dude! i heard you the first time, ask something else"... followed by
"DUDE!! insanity is trying the same thing hoping for something different."... followed by
"DUDE!!!! your the kind of guy that loves telephone menu option 9 'press 9 to hear the options again' right?"
16410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What type of chatbot you would like to see? on: June 02, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
a chat box where the answers to FAQ's are peer reviewed by non biased people.

otherwise newb's will just get the same scripted fud that reddit provides them
16411  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining pools shut down in China with no clear reasons on: June 02, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
the other thing can be
fake company never making bitcoin. pretends its moved away to set up elsewhere, while publishing numbers of income vs expense in the hopes of grabbing VC money under the pretence they are already established yet only just setting up in the north
16412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Daily reminder: The covert ASICBOOST scam is not fixed with segwith hardfork on: June 02, 2017, 03:18:44 AM
Is there anyone surprised? Core is doing everything they can to stall blocksize increase.

And you believe Jihan is not stalling blocksize? He already dropped BU and those r/btc people all felt for his crap that Segwit is cancer, bad etc. And now he's working on a different version of Segwit..lol

Jihan's business model is focused on milking out those high fee's as much as possible.

do some real research.. reddit is FUD scripter zone not research zone. stay away from it
your first fail is to turn everything into a jihan argument as if the 68%-70% nay/abstainers is just 1-2 guys fault.
open your eyes, you will surprise yourself at what you see when you dont use reddit as your source
16413  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining pools shut down in China with no clear reasons on: June 02, 2017, 02:48:34 AM
4.5 million kwh/month and pay us more than 1 million yuan per month


thats $0.033 per kwh.... not cheap i guess they decided to go up north and stay up north more long term instead of seasonal
Sichuan is now in wet season and the electricity price will only cost 50% of that of in dry season.

i added more to my previous post which might add extra depth to the argument against staying in the south..
but hey im just googling..
16414  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining pools shut down in China with no clear reasons on: June 02, 2017, 02:24:05 AM
4.5 million kwh/month and pay us more than 1 million yuan per month

thats $0.033 per kwh.... not cheap i guess they decided to go up north and stay up north more long term instead of seasonal



might also be that exactly a month after them leaving the southern location
southern chinese state electric grid raised the price of non-residential electric
http://www.ebeijing.gov.cn/BeijingInformation/BeijingNewsUpdate/t1094426.htm

Quote
China's National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), the top economic planning agency, Thursday announced a rise in the price of electricity for non-residential use by 2.8 fen ($0.4 cents) per kWh on average nationwide, as of Friday.

Quote
and for commercial use 79 fen per kWh, according to Beijing Electric Power Corporation.

.. might help explain it.. coal in the south isnt as cheap as hydro electric in the north



also mongolia is having big growth and able to offer special discounts,.. as another possible layer as to why they would had north sooner
16415  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Daily reminder: The covert ASICBOOST scam is not fixed with segwith hardfork on: June 02, 2017, 01:51:16 AM


1. its just more efficient method of mining. just like the GPU mining days of OpenCL vs kuda


horseshit, it results in jihad mining empty blocks and congestion in transactions and higher fees. And bigger blocks won't solve it


lol
covert asic boost is not related to empty blocks. might be worth you researching the difference.
even if covert was disabled... empty block mining still occurs

also although antpool has a chinese licence for asic boost, other pools can be using it and you wouldnt even know it
Gmaxwells argument is not that jihan is/could be using it. its that bitcoin has an exploit..
luke Jr wants to use it to try sliding in segwit and other future features without concensus veto
asicboost can be used to help asics be more efficient and strengthen the network against outside attackers
and its a fight over who deserves to use it. or if no one should use it

for instance if left open. some dev could slide in a trojan that wasnt 'virtuous'
for instance if left open. some non bitcoin pool could make a private chain with less ASICS but build higher blockheight privately. and then broadcast it to the network to take over the chain..
gmax wont say it as it will just put idea's into people heads and he would get slammed for hinting it should it ever happen

but anyway lets deal with other pools that do empty blocks
btc.com does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468613
bixin.com does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468873
1hash does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468570
f2pool does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468721  
viabtc does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468612
btc.top does https://blockchain.info/block-height/468415
16416  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Daily reminder: The covert ASICBOOST scam is not fixed with segwith hardfork on: June 02, 2017, 12:02:44 AM

I'm glad Jeff opened that discussion. Looks like Jeff is trying to reassure everyone that asicboost will be disabled, but he's kinda dancing around the issue and gmaxwell (judging from his most recent comment) is not yet convinced.

gmaxwels gripe was asicboost hinders segwit 'backward compatibility easy to implement' functionality promise..
"the protocol interactions of the covert method can block the implementation of virtuous* improvements such as segregated witness"

in short asicboost uses the same trojan horse exploit backdoor as what segwit needs



however
if segwit functions via jgarzigs implementation then asicboost becomes a non issue to segwit.

however
filling this exploit backdoor would not only stop asicboost, but could also stop segwits 'promise' of sliding in later soft upgrades via the same backdoor exploit.

(use of virtuous: morally accepted trojan by the use of an exploit backdoor to enter the protocol, accepted because 'the good guys use it)

to be honest, id say fill the exploit. dont let anyone have a backdoor
16417  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Unlimited being traded right now? on: June 01, 2017, 06:36:36 PM
my take is that DCG got fed up with blockstream and forced the compromise..maybe bitcoin still gets SW but it also gets HF and upgrade not authored by Core.  

untill i see code that includes an activation date of 2mb... its all just drama
remember its the same 2mb +segwit that was proposed in late 2015 roundtable..
then again at spring 2016 roundtable

pretty much every round table its the same thing...
16418  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Unlimited being traded right now? on: June 01, 2017, 06:12:31 PM
But which party does the "emergent consensus" stand for?  
That's Bitcoin Unlimited. Due to the massive incompetence of the BU developers and frequent failures in their software, they have started renaming the listing from BU to emergent consensus (e.g. on coin.dance).

Don't even mention Bitcoin Unlimited, LOL
The cancer of the Bitcoin ecosystem.


1. lauda has no clue, he is just a mouthpiece of blockstream

2. his rebuttle ends up with waffle that he usually ends up saying 2 words  "nonsensical" and "ad-hominem"

3. dynamics has always been much wider than just BU. its not bu rebranding to emergent consenusus.. its actually coin.dance realising that there is more to it than just BU

4. UASF and segwit has more lines of code that will kill off more full nodes and pools than any other bip/implementation/brand. making UASF the main cancer

5. right now the DCG cartel are making 4 segwit  debates to confuse the community to hope it convinces the community that the only way is segwit.
much like if hilary was being elected at same time as trump. hilary would also get bill clinton on the ballot paper and then get another listing where its a dual hilary and trump presidency and a hilary in trousers and hilary in skirt ballot... all in an effort to try diluting trump supporters, and get the media only talking about the many hilary options which in the end have the same crapy cludgy manifesto

its all just distractions
16419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who is still delusional enough to think miners want to scale? on: June 01, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
You have a point, but I don't think fees are the primary purpose right now as block rewards are still much better than the fees and the fees usually just goes to the pools. Though probably if they keep this up, when we have had enough halvings then the rewards will be lower then the fees then they will surely forget about scaling.

it doesnt matter when the flip of when fee becomes income and reward becomes a bonus happens.. if their block is not accepted by the community to build ontop of the longest chain they cant spend a thing they earn reward or fee.

its still a matter of pools sticking to the community consensus to ensure thier blocks get accepted into the longest chain so they can spend anything.
whether its
  income:bonus
reward  :  fee - now
fee       :  reward - many decades time

with that said pools DO want to scale to allow more transactions in, because getting 10cents each from 200,000 tx is a healthier currency that has longevity and utility... compared to hoping for $10 each from 2000 tx, which is not a currency that has longevity


but  its all about the competition/race to get an acceptable block which muddies the non-mining nodes opinion of what pools do or do not want.
because the non-mining users dont understand the number of game theories at play.

16420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who is still delusional enough to think miners want to scale? on: June 01, 2017, 04:01:11 PM
pools dont care about fee's
research empty blocks

they care more about just getting their block accepted.. fee or no fee if the block is not accepted they cant spend anything.. not the fee not the reward.

pools primarily care about the block reward.
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