For what it´s worth they are planning on selling this as cloudhashing power, but first need to build their farm big enough to offer everyone of their Neptune customers compensation for any late delivery.
Without a doubt these petahashes are hugely profitable, but my guestimation is they are only at 50% deployment yet, as their facility supports 10MW power draw and they are only at a bit over 5MW right now XD

So yeah... atleast every Neptune customer is entitled to a refund if he spots cheaper hashpower anywhere...

Cloudhashing per se is actually quite a good idea, as it lowers the entry level for miners to become involved with mining and bitcoin.
This will eventually lower prices for cloudmining.

I guess what i´m trying to say is, that maybe in the end everyone can get a bit of their datacenter and feel good about it. At this point is it sadly just a symbol of KNC´s greed.

From a practical standpoint, there isn´t too much they can do.

If they don´t deliver a product then you will be entitled your money back, fraud protection law covers you there.

As far as the exact timescale goes, it is ofcourse in the hands of the company to get everything out of the door on time.
However, what i have seen from them by now, they deployed the 1st generation on time, even finishing shipping faster than the deadlines.
(A reminder: all April units have already shipped, and April still has 10 days....)

Therefore it isn´t too much of a gamble trusting the August delivery will be on time, especially as chips are already scheduled to arrive early-mid July and a few early bird
orders will actually be fulfilled by the end of July.

IF they for any reason don´t make the deadline, i am sure they will figure out some kind of compensation.

On a side note: Hashfast had a protection against late delivery, but nobody has yet received any compensation although nearly all of their products are late, and refund requests are often ignored, although they were promised.

Ah I see where the source of the confusion lies.
Those on the website right now are their new 20nm modules (aka Neptune, actually the same pics as the Jupiters in 2013) which are not yet in production (though tapeout was somewhere in march or late february i believe)

The ones in the datacenter are old 28nm, essentially the same as in the Jupiters, upgrade boards like on the website now.

Hate to point out an error but as batch 3 products typically consist of 4boards each, every board has ~187 maximum potential hashrate.

Thus total hashrate would be 22680 *187GH/s = 4252TH/s = 4,252PH/s

This would put them to a ~5.2MW power draw, assuming some minor improvements.
This model is in line with the fact that their datacenter is, i think, a 10MW facility.


On a different note though, producing these already designed ASICS including assembly etc. can´t have cost KnC more than 1$ per GH/s (it is propably a good amount lower).
So anyone converting their order into cloudhosting by KnC is just handing them atleast a 7k profit per order for outdated tech and hosting service.

For what it´s worth, you can get 1th bitmine clones delivered within 3 days for 2400 to 2500, same power efficiency as S2.

Did you guys receive them just now? "shipping before 10th April...."?

If so, the pricetag wasn´t justified at all....

I am really looking forward to the additional compensation from bitmine for not meeting their production goal.

This should be granted on the basis of not meeting their contractual obligations ie their shipping schedule
("...deployment schedule was based on written and contractual agreed schedule from Bitmine...")

I speculate this might be a TON of chips which cryptx then fabricates into working miners?

@
waldohoover, I appreciated all the effort you put into this groupbuy, however please see my calculation below:


Refunded share price e.g. round 4 on 19th April 2014: 0,2565 @ 500$  1 share 128,25$

Amount YOU received from KnC for order cancellation: at least 10000$ per miner or 10000$/60 -->  1 share 166,66$

This is the calculation which is the most in favour of you, e.g. the one where your lack of refund was the lowest.
According to this data, the amount you retained for your services is ~ 25 % not 5% as you claimed.

Please explain to the community how you forgot to pay ~30$ back for every share.

(For the example of round 4 miner, you have profited from the community 60*30$=1800$)

This seems like a scam to me...


Anyone who does the math can figure out, that you just pocketed ~ 10k from the people that trusted you. (Averaged over all Neptunes)

This is a cheaper and more bitcoin-friendly way.

I believe shipping cost is 150$ to most countries, shipped via dhl Express.

Nice, with mine, half of them show the maximum target temperature of 113° (crappy 25° temperature intake, changing datacenter soon).

Hopefully the next customer won´t throw his unit in the snow or the company´s deep freezing room, though i might pay for seeing an even higher hashrate

I know this is intake temperature. It says so in the first sentence of the post...
But intake temperature automatically effects the cooling ability so naturally the chips run cooler at the same speed/power draw and will therefore clock faster.

Also, iceland offers 4ct/kwh electricity rates to their datacenters, fixed for 10 years, some of the lowest on the planet.

Ofcourse we won´t be getting that (+hosting cost +datacenter profit), but it should offer us some nice hosting with excellent cooling.

@raskul

Wow nice 5°C Temperature intake. Thats the whole magic behind pushing these chips to the max. Excellent cooling.

Most datacenters manage only 20-22°C. This shows that proper cooling on these high density rigs goes a long way.

It would be so cool (literally) if we (maybe with the help of spondoolies) get enough people together hosting miners in an iceland datacenter.



Bitfury did some research on these back in the FGPA days and i remember the guys (from thor datacenter, iceland?) stating that they could get the temperature in these cotainers to below 10°C,
simply setting them up in the cool iceland air and hooking up enough power.

Excellent cooling combined with cheap (even renewable) power really seems the way to go.

Also, not many datacenters can handle 30kw+ per rack, but this might be a solution.

I do understand that a company aims to pleasing a large number of customers, but this could easily be achieved by regular updates, competitive pricing and a short time-to-market business approach.

I further believe that KnC might have bitten off more than they should chew.
Based on their 28nm chip in combination with a smart layout and cooling system
and by lowering the voltage and clock frequency on their chips, a 1,5-2th box fitting a 4u factor would have been easily engineerable by March this year.

Also, providing the plan B hashpower only in June, the last possible month of their production promise, this shows that they never intended to come anywhere close to Q1 when announcing shipment in Q1/Q2.

While this isn´t legally misleading, it was at least psychologically.

The waiting-before-doing-the-refund is a really shady tactic, they are most likely aiming to getting a lower number of refunds if people on the forums claim it takes some time.

Additionally it might be cashflow related, as they probably don´t just have the cash lying around if they take 200 or so refund requests, which is not to say they don´t have the cash or assets, it might just not be readily available for instant bank-wire transfer.

Maybe they also hope (and this is pure speculation on my part) to sell some of the 3rd batch products and just take that money to refund earlier customers.


The really sad thing in my opinion is that people accepted a 30% overpriced (25% on hardware + cost of psus) Frankenjupiter with a 20% too high power efficiency for their money, which should have given them bleeding-edge 20nm mining technology.
However it looks like the efficiency of the Neptune will most likely be no better than 0,7J/Gh, so not really worth the wait.
If they pull out some crazy hashrate increase to 4,5 TH, which seems doable, they will have lost a lot of customers by not communicating to the people funding their operations with thousands of dollars tied up in the investment.

Still, 4,5 TH only gives you 2,22$ / GH in June, which you can nearly get now.

or wireless hotspot -> virtually any WLan Router configured as WLan access point -> miner(s)

Or just buy a router with USB port like TP-Link MR3220 for 25$.

Just plug in a surfstick, configuration is easy via the router webinterface.

Then you have 4 ethernet ports and if you need more, you can add a switch.

Mining with difficulty half your MH/s i.e. 512 difficulty with 1th hardware will typically produce only ~1,5kbit/s in traffic.
This means even when the speed of your mobile internet is decreased to 64kbit/s you will still be very fine.

I just wanted to present this option, cryptx might already have thought about this.

This would be mutually beneficial, as bitmine could focus more on their retail market, pleasing more of their waiting customers, while still retaining a profit from the chips they sold, are selling and will be selling to us.

However, if parts etc. need a huge lead time or cryptx wouldn´t be able to source them in quantity, this would not really be an option.
(I do not really think this though because we are already deploying a fairly large amount of GH)

I read somewhere that the standard minepeon system might work with this. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, how loud is it (e.g compared to an antminer)?

less than 5K for 5,4 TH beats knc´s 10/12k for 3TH (maybe 4 if you are lucky) big time.

Granted, 2 months later shipping but spondoolies has better power efficiency and a smaller rig, aswell as competetive hosting prices for longterm hosting.

Edit:

And the 3th frankenjupiter is just a joke. You can get 3 * 1th rig with bitmine chips delivered the next week for 3*2,5k = 7,5k

That is shipping cost included.

Plus: 1W/GH power efficiency on these vs. ~1,2W/GH on Frankenjupiter

Plus: Already assembled and with 80+ gold psu.


Don´t get me wrong, i liked the jupiter, it was good tech when it came out, but seeing as KNC is just looking to reap money from their customers for now overpriced gear just sadens me.