It's even more ridiculous to say it was accidental attack.
The captured Azovites are still highly valued for exchange, because at large in Ukraine they are apparently still considered the elite and there are many more of their fighters and supporters at large who are pressing the Zelensky government to exchange them in the very first place.
For the Zelensky government, for which victories on the information front are much more important than real ones, it would be better if the Azov people did not surrender, but died the death of the brave as martyrs. Therefore, on the one hand, Kyiv exchanges part of the soldiers, and on the other hand, instead of Russia, it may well seek to complete its plan to glorify the prisoners from Azovstal by completely destroying it. Moreover, as mentioned above, such attacks may be designed not only to intimidate witnesses, but to reduce the desire of Ukrainian soldiers to surrender into Russian captivity.

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This means that either Ukrainian soldiers, with the help of Western weapons and foreign mercenaries, do not know how to fight at all against the antediluvian Russian army, or you are not able to impartially process information. To understand this topic, it is still better to read what correspondents from the fronts transmit.





According to the Minister of Defense of Ukraine in June 2022, the Ukrainian army would have enough strength to confront such armies as France or the UK (which are among the five strongest armies in the world), but at the same time Ukraine *for some reason* is not able to cope with the "backward", "unorganized", "demoralized" army of the Russian Federation in the amount of 150 thousand soldiers, which is only 15% of the entire army of the Russian Federation.

The Russian army for five months taken about 126.610 thousand square kilometers of territories that previously belonged to Ukraine. The Russian government is already ready to accept these lands into the Russian Federation after referendums.

In general, if the Russian army is so backward, as you say, then it turns out that NATO troops are not capable of anything at all. It turns out that they can only fight against civilians in Yugoslavia and Afghan nomads armed with machine guns, but they lack the courage to fight against the Russian army, otherwise the "brave" NATO military would not hide behind the backs of Ukrainian soldiers and would have started a third world war long ago, which in the blink of an eye, it would turn into a nuclear one and destroy all life. After all, this is precisely what all those who escalate this conflict between NATO and the largest nuclear power are striving for.



PS. At first, I thought that it was beneficial for Russia when the West significantly underestimated its military potential. But this is wrong, because Ukrainians, deceived by local and European propaganda, are sent to the front, and then tens of thousands die there.

Challenge at least one point, and it may turn out that you know nothing but bingo. Although about bingo, maybe you also greatly overestimate yourself.

By what criteria did you attribute me to the Kremlin bots? Bots get paid for multiple posts, right?
But it’s okay that you are now writing the Freebitcoin refcode in your signature here, not me. Thus, I have evidence that you can be called a Freebitcoin casino site bot.
If my statements with references to sources violate your subtle mental organization, then these are not problems of the Kremlin propaganda, but your personal ones.
And now, be so kind as to present your evidence that the Kremlin pays me for my posts in this thread, otherwise you are an empty talker.



The project card indicates that the initiators of this bill № 7351 were 9 Ukrainian deputies: Bezuglaya, Aliksychuk, Bakumov, Grivko, Tretyakova, Voitsekhovsky, Mysyagin, Mazurashu, Fedienko. The bill was withdrawn without a voting, because, according to deputy Bakumov, it caused "an inadequate public outcry".
Can't you see how the Ukrainian government does not spare its inhabitants and sends them on suicidal attacks on the eastern front against Russian artillery, tanks and aviation? In Russia, there was not a single mobilization, while in Ukraine women from 18 to 60 years old are already being called up. Your government does not put you in anything, it uses you like cannon fodder to get new financial injections and weapons from Western countries, some of which will then be sold on the black market in exchange for your lives.



Please post a link proving that the Russian military did it. I'll check what sources you trust completely.

Also, if possible, please comment on this post.





Russian troops were destroying them before the Azov fighters surrendered in May, two more Azov fighters were sentenced to death, and 144 AFU soldiers (including Azov) were exchanged in June for 144 Russian prisoners of war. First of all, the Ukrainian side wanted the Azov people back, so they are valued much more for exchange than for intimidation.



By this logic, it turns out that Russian soldiers in captivity can also incriminate themselves in order to save their lives.



Well, based on your smile, only those who consume Ukrainian Zelensky noodles from morning to evening know the truth.
If you know the truth, please tell me, how many looters of Ukrainian origin were tied to poles with tape and beaten in the Ukrainian cities, and how many looters from Russia have already been prosecuted by the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs?

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Judging by how the Ukrainians have been thoroughly brainwashed for 30 years, that now they point-blank do not see how they are used in a fratricidal massacre to the applause of the Anglo-Saxons, they see nothing wrong with the glorification of Bandera, they approve of the complete de-Russification of Ukraine and membership in the aggressive NATO military bloc that destroyed Yugoslavia; and after the anti-constitutional coup, the Ukrainians elected the clown Zelensky as president, who had not an ounce of political weight and experience, - then it is time to treat the head of the Ukrainian nation.

The statements of the Russian side are more reasoned and supported by material evidence at least.

Here some arguments against the Russian attack on the Elenovka detention center:

1. The Russian side has the wreckage of the HIMARS rocket and its number. By the number of the rocket, investigators can determine the exact place from which this rocket was launched and who gave the order to launch it. The Ukrainian side has Arestovich's statement that the Russians set fire to their own detention center.



2. According to a representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Ukrainian side has fired before at the same detention center in Yelenovka on the morning of May 17 from multiple launch rocket systems. Also, a Russian correspondent at the end of June reported that the village of Yelenovka was being regularly shelled by Ukrainian troops. Let me remind you that in May of this year, three deputies of the Verkhovna Rada from the political party Servant of the People (Vladimir Zelensky's party) proposed to shoot Ukrainian soldiers for desertion without trial - this is about the attitude of the Ukrainian government towards its soldiers.



3. If this is a staging, then it is too unpredictable. With such a large-scale staging with so many victims and participants, it is almost impossible to be able to hide it in secret, because there are so many extra eyes. There will always be hunters to chat. Moreover, there were eight victims among the guards, and it would not be difficult for them or their relatives to find out where the blow was actually fired from - which would risk greatly worsening relations between the Russian Federation and the residents of the DPR in case of staging. And this is the last thing the Russian authorities need now on the eve of the forthcoming referendums. The Security Service of Ukraine published an alleged telephone conversation between two Russian soldiers who are freely talking about a provocation in Yelenovka. This is despite the fact that Russian soldiers are forbidden to have mobile phones with them. But it seems that Ukrainians are still falling for these fakes.

4. A very dubious provocation. Prisoners from Azovstal are too valuable for an exchange fund and they giving valuable testimony to be spent on staged provocation. The doubtfulness of the provocation also lies in the fact that even before the official statements of the Ukrainian side, Russia had already foreshadowed that the blame for this attack would be laid by the Ukrainians on the Russian army. That is, it would take a lot of effort for an incomprehensible reaction. The statement of the Ukrainian side does not stand up to criticism, because the captured Azov people are checking by the International Committee of the Red Cross and the wives of the Ukrainian prisoners of war which come to Russian prisons to visit their husbands.



5. The strike on the isolation ward was dealt literally a day after the confession of the acting commander of the press service of the Azov regiment, famous Dmitry Kazatsky, appeared on the Internet that Aleksey Arestovich personally from the office of the President of Ukraine ordered to shoot a video of Russian prisoners of war being tortured.

July 28 - confession of Azov fighter from Yelenovka about Arestovich
July 29 - explosion in the detention center in Yelenovka

For those who are interested, there is the text of Dmitry Kazatsky's speech. Translated from Russian into English.



Reporter: Please introduce yourself and tell us what functions you performed in the Azov battalion?
Dmitry Kazatsky: Dmitry Kazatsky, acting commander of the press service of the Azov Regiment.
Reporter: What is your call sign?
Dmitry Kazatsky: Orest.
Reporter: Dmitry, tell us, were there any peculiarities in your information work before the outbreak of hostilities, and then later?
Dmitry Kazatsky: Until the 24th, we had our own recruiting information campaign. There were suggestions that the war would start and we were engaged in recruiting personnel, that is, we gathered people, just in case. But the most interesting thing is that even before the 24th, before the start of the war, from the office of the president, as I understand it, I heard the name Arestovich, what exactly Arestovich is doing this - creating an information campaign to collect shock content, video materials, on the brutal murders of Russian prisoners of war. For us then it was still strange, we didn't think that it would begin. We just took the instructions and that's it. But then, when the war began, we started monitoring the information space in Ukraine and noticing that these videos really started to appear. As I understand it, these instructions were issued not only to us, but also to other military units or organizations. That is, we saw videos from Kharkov and Kyiv. As I understand it, these instructions were sent to both Botsman and Chile in Kharkov, because we saw these videos in different telegram channels and different sources. I understood from these instructions that this information campaign was created in order to provoke some kind of anti-war movements in Russia, so that there would be some kind of actions. But in fact, when we later monitored the information space, this information campaign caused more negative in the world community, because it was a war crime, and it did not cause the proper result in Russia, because there were no actions there. When there was a war - I don't remember what date it was - new orders were issued to stop this campaign. I understood this was from Arestovich. I heard that it descended from him - to stop so as not to cause a negative image in the world community. I don't know who specifically did this from us, these videos were collected, but I know for sure that after leaving Azovstal, all video materials, all flash drives, all hard drives, computers were destroyed so that these videos would not remain.

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Is the confession of a Ukrainian doctor proof?

Reply to Suchmoon



The language of numbers will help clarify. Let's compare the current conflict in Ukraine with Iraq in 2003.
I've made this comparison before, but that was three months ago and a lot could change in the data during this time.
By the way, few people remember that the armed forces of Ukraine participated in the war in Iraq. What the hell did they forget there, can anyone say?

According to the latest report on the OHCHR website, by July 11, 2022, 5024 civilians killed in Ukraine.
In roughly the same period (three days less), 9222 civilians killed in Iraq.
Since the civilian casualties in Iraq are much higher than in Ukraine, so I will ask a question based on your comment. Do you think that the US troops, including with the help of the armed forces of Ukraine, sought to deliberately destroy the Iraqis as a nation?

Civilian casualties in Ukraine, per month
From 24 February to 11 July 2022 (137 days)

____________________________
24-28 February	336
March	3046
April	665
May	456
June	362
1-11 July	159
Total	5024

Civilian casualties in Iraq, per month
From 20 March to 1 August 2003 (134 days)

____________________________
20-31 March	3986
April	3448
May	545
June	597
July	646
Total	9222

Regarding the words of Putin, could you point out please a specific quote where, in your opinion, Putin denies the Ukrainian nation? Because I skimmed through the transcript of Putin’s speech of February 24, 2022 and found only such phrases about Ukrainians there:



In refutation of your statements, in Putin's speeches on July 12, 2021 and March 3, 2022, there were phrases that Russians and Ukrainians are one people.


As for "denazification", it doesn't define all the inhabitants of Ukraine as neo-Nazis. As far as I understand this refers mostly to
- military neo-Nazi formations like Azov, Aidar, Donbas, Dnepr-1, Right Sector and armed units on their side;
- radicals calling for murders on ethnic grounds;
- officials who conduct torchlight processions and forbid holding parades in honor of the USSR victory over Nazi Germany
- education officials who glorify the UPA and Stepan Bandera in Ukrainian textbooks etc.

For those who still saying that there are no Nazis in Ukraine, here is a direct evidence:
1. The Azov Battalion is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine
2. The Azov Battalion was even recognized by US congressmen as neo-Nazi and that it poses a terrorist threat
3. The Azov Battalion conducted training for children in a military camp, where they learned chants about "death to Muscovites."



There are no equivalent attempts because their military capabilities are too meager in relation to the Russian ones, especially in comparison with what they had five months ago. If you follow the statements of the Advisor to the Head of the Office of the Ukrainian President about Russians, it may turn out to be a little different. He is in favor of forgetting the word "Russian" in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. For your information, there are about 40% of Russians in Donetsk and Lugansk regions and 25% of Russians in Kharkiv region.




And your words about the fact that the Russians were not destroyed - you can go to Mariupol and ask locals there, what do they think about the Russian army and the Azov battalion. About the Nazi Azov last month, an article was published in a Greek newspaper, how Azov militants held Russian-speaking citizens of Mariupol as hostages. Here is a screenshot from there with translation into English.



There is also a censored fragment from Spanish RTVE channel about Azov.

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Reply to 1miau


How do I know which German source you consider "credible"? We can play this football all day long. You can name a couple of sources that meet your criteria.


In your opinion, everyone who condemns the Nazis, opposes the killing of civilians and quotes Bild, are Putin's apologists? You have an interesting position in life, but in any case thank you for opening my eyes to Build. It looks like this is the same yellow press as the Russian Medusa, maybe a little better.
Tell me then please also, how do people in Germany feel about the Der Spiegel, which removed from its website a video about Ukrainian soldiers held a woman hostage for two months? Such actions by Der Spiegel do not inspire much confidence.



If the overwhelming majority of Germans intend to get rid of dependence on Russian gas, then I wish you good luck.

Right. Just like in Ukraine in 2014, instead of a civil war, the Kyiv junta announced an anti-terrorist operation against civilians in Donbass.


In fact, the Russian authorities do not care about almost everyone who calls this conflict a 'war'. And for much harsher statements about Putin and the Russian army, they don’t put them in jail at all. Many well-known Russian journalists, popular bloggers, military experts call this a 'war' and no one touches them. Live TV presenters call this conflict a 'war', and then after a couple of seconds they correct themselves, adding that the war is not against Ukraine, but against the collective West or NATO. In Russia, if the ruling elite wants to, anyone can be arrested - "If there was a man, there would be an article" <.
Specifically, this municipal deputy Gorinov received a prison term:
Officially - for the fact that he protested against the holding of a children's competition, saying that "entertainment is unacceptable" wildness "against the background of hostilities in a neighboring state".
Unofficially, this is an indicative flogging to demotivate other people with similar ideas, as well as for the fact that he supported the Navalnists (like Ilya Yashin), at the initiative of which sanctions were imposed on many members of the Russian elite in the West and their bank accounts were frozen.
Naturally, I consider this an unfair decision, as in principle with Assange. However, even such a punishment is much milder than in Ukraine. A few days ago, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine reported that it brought 163 people to criminal liability for collaboration activities. Simply put, if a person from Ukraine publicly supports Russia, then he will be imprisoned. I suspect that hotheads in the Ukrainian SBU, for the words "special operation", the Russian flag, for the symbols Z or V, not only hurt, but simply shoot, as they executed a member of the negotiating delegation for suspicions of pro-Russian views, despite the fact that there is no official death penalty in Ukraine.

I noticed that you write WAR in capslock. Thank you, this gave me courage, now I am one step closer to overthrowing the Putin's regime.
@1miau tell me your thoughts. How do Ukraine and Russia manage to fight each other, but at the same time, Russian gas continues to flow through Ukrainian territory and no one bombs this pipe? Even during the military operations, European officials can freely travel to Kyiv, and why, during the WAR, Russia does not bomb the roads along which weapons are brought from Europe and does not bomb TV towers, as the main mouthpiece of Ukrainian propaganda? Somehow it does not fit, in my opinion, what do you think?

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Reply to paxmao



The information you provide about the forcible deportation of Ukrainian residents to Russia is very similar to the Ukrainian fake, picked up by the Western media. Please, refer to independent authoritative sources, such as UNICEF or UN, confirming your words. In April 2022, Director of Emergency Programs at UNICEF Manuel Fontaine said that he had no evidence of the forced deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia.
You seem to be unknowingly confusing forced deportation with the evacuation of Ukrainian civilians from war zones. Do you think it would be better for Ukrainian civilians to stay in dangerous areas during the bombing? If you at least turn on the logic and begin to analyze your claim about the "deportation" of Ukrainians to Russia, then if Russia, in your opinion, is engaged in the genocide of the Ukrainian population, then why does it spend resources on transporting them to Russia and their further provision there, and not leaving them in battlefields?
It also looks like a Ukrainian stuffing about the forced nationalization of Ukrainians. For your information, Russia is a multinational country that does not infringe on the rights of national minorities. In Russia, nationality is not lost upon obtaining Russian citizenship. On the territory of Russia there are multiple national territorial entities where a second state language is adopted. Russia, unlike Ukraine, does not engage in forced nationalization.




The website of the VTV company is located in the Ukrainian domain, this source provides information in Ukrainian. That is, in your opinion, when the Russian army enters a Ukrainian city, then local television in this city automatically ceases to be Ukrainian? The Kherson region is actually controlled by Russian troops, but officially it is still part of Ukraine, until a referendum is held there and before being accepted into Russia, which is why I called the site Ukrainian. Well, shouldn't I call him Russian? On the site that you shared, they advised to be critical of the content of such channels as VTV, but I would add to this that people should be critical of any information.
The Kherson VTV channel could not publish anything at all in the interests of the "occupiers", but there they posted material that doesn't coincide with the Western agenda, telling the info about the supply of weapons to Ukraine that brings death to civilians.

The French moralist Jean de La Bruyere coined a continuation of this statement in the 17th century: “If poverty is the mother of all crimes, lack of intelligence is their father.”
So far, judging by what European and American officials are doing in relation to Russia, it looks like shooting at their own legs, they completely neglect the national interests in favor of the Americans.
PS. I don't know Adolf Putin, but I've heard how children and teenagers usually try to prick an opponent and tease each other by inventing different nicknames. You think 'some agents' read you and get angry? Frankly, judging by the number of views on this topic, they most likely do not even know about this forum, otherwise here would be an influx of Kremlin bots.  

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Reply to TwitchySeal



Congratulations on the find, but the only article (?) you mentioned in the Western press dryly states that the strikes were carried out on the Donetsk market, but does not directly state that it was the Ukrainian army that carried out the attack. Literally in a few words, the statements of the Donetsk news agency are given first, but the last word is left to the Ukrainian side, blaming the Russian side, leaving it in question who is responsible for this missile attack. Although this statement by the Ukrainian side, in terms of the level of delirium, is comparable to a crazy statement, such as, for example, that the Polish artillery attacked the Ukrainian city of Lvov. But for some reason, such nonsense is usually not written in the Western press, but here for some reason they gave up slack.

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Reply to mv1986



I don't quite understand you. Are you asking for evidence or asking why the Ukrainian army is doing this? Whatever, I will answer both questions.
At the beginning of the month, there was shelling of the Russian city of Belgorod, which was reported in the media. According to a representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, this strike is a provocation to push Russian troops to strike back. Though some Ukrainian bloggers are already talking nonsense that Ukraine has captured the Russian city of Belgorod and are now discussing how they will rename it.


This is a selective nonsense, because it was the Ukrainian side, or rather, the heads of the Ukrainian nationalist military groups, who threatened Zelensky and promised to sabotage the implementation of international agreements. If the Minsk agreements had been fulfilled, then Russia would not have had a formal reason to send troops to the territory of Ukraine. In addition, recently the former President of Ukraine Poroshenko admitted that the Minsk agreements were needed only to gain time for the militarization of Ukraine.

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Reply to johhnyUA


About deukrainization is complete nonsense. Russia is a multinational country and does not infringe upon representatives of national minorities on linguistic and cultural grounds. In Russia, even recently a hit in Ukrainian has become popular, which you could hear "Plive Kacha", it sings about how "they bury demons in Azovstal".

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Reply to LTU_btc



It would be interesting to discuss Crimea with you, but this topic can drag on for many pages, so I'd better ask about Donbass. Do you have evidence that Russia invaded Donbass in 2014? Maybe you have satellite images (the same as those in November 2021 - January 2022) showing the accumulation of Russian troops near the Ukrainian border? If you have similar pictures from 2014, please provide them. Maybe you can show at least one report of the OSCE mission from 2014 to 2022, where it is written about Russian troops. Many tried to find traces of Russian troops there, but did not find anything. The head of the OSCE’s observer mission in Ukraine Alexander Hug said: "We would not see direct evidence".
Even representatives of the Ukrainian side for several years have not been able to provide the facts of the presence of Russian troops in the Donbass, although they tried very hard, such as Ukrainian official Georgy Tuka.
I can still be objected to about Russian mercenaries, but they are not official military personnel of the Russian army, just as now foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are not officially soldiers of their countries. In addition, it must be added that Russian mercenaries fought both on the side of the armies of the DPR and LPR, and on the side of the Ukrainian army.



You have chosen a strange word "to be afraid". How can a flag scare? The word "irritated" is more appropriate, and this happens not only in Russia. Because wherever you look - everywhere this coloring.

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Reply to DrBeer



1. You are a resident of Ukraine, right? Then it's better to tell us about Ukrainian propaganda. Do you think Ukrainian media and authorities never lie? For example, about how the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine published footage from a computer game posing as the destruction of Russian helicopters, or tell about the resurrected Ukrainian heroes from Serpent Island, tell me more about the "evacuation" of the Nazis from the Azov battalion, and fakes about mass rape of children and about the mighty pilot "Ghost of Kyiv" which already disproved by the Ukrainian authorities themselves.? Ukrainian propaganda completely discredited itself and spawned thousands of fakes without any hesitation, justifying itself by fighting on the "information front" in this way.
2. Is your caps lock broken? Specify exactly who the Ukrainian army was defending when it bombed the residents of Donetsk and Luhansk since 2014, when several dozen people were burned alive in the Odessa, when they terrorized the inhabitants of Mariupol, and when the so-called "defenders" tortured civilians?
3. Do you think the bank and the market in Donetsk are military facilities?



4. Such "heroism" to sit in civilian facilities and hide behind civilians as a human shield is mainly inherent in Ukrainian soldiers, on which they have been caught many times (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8).

Ukrainian soldiers are not able to resist the Russian army in the open fields (according to the adviser to the head of Zelensky's office), so the Armed Forces of Ukraine prefer to resort to tactics of battles inside the cities. Apparently, according to the logic of the Kyiv authorities, the more victims of the civilian population, the more sanctions will be imposed against Russia and the more money will be allocated to Zelensky's entourage. According to the Geneva Convention, real defenders should not endanger the civilian population by placing military equipment inside residential areas, but are obliged to evacuate residents to a safe area, away from military installations. Also, soldiers must place air defenses outside the city, so as not to injure citizens with missile fragments.

In those cities where the Ukrainian army did not hide among residential buildings, as in Melitopol or Kherson, there is no destruction. It is not in the interests of Russia to destroy the infrastructure, which it will then restore.



You do not confuse administrative cases for which a fine is imposed with criminal ones? If you are really talking about criminal cases, then provide the numbers of these cases to check your words.



Why are you talking about Germany? Tell us better about Ukraine - after all, there, in military schools, teenagers are taught how to do the Nazi salute.

The competence of the International Criminal Court (ICC) includes the prosecution of persons guilty of genocide. If there are facts, they should be presented there and carefully examined. Because in the same way you can be told that Ukrainian troops are purposefully killing pro-Russian civilians.

Do the Western media talk about the shelling of cities by Ukrainian troops on civilians with the help of Western artillery, for example, which was yesterday in Donetsk?
I ask because usually such news is not shown in major European and American information resources. This in no way justifies any victims, but independent journalists should try to objectively cover events from different sides of the conflict.

To understand the subject matter, here is a video (Violent content!), which is unlikely to be shown on TV channels in Europe or USA.



So far, instead of objective reporting, I have seen the lies of the English Daily Mirror, German tagesschau, French TF1 that Russian troops are shelling Donetsk. Maybe someone doesn't know yet, that the army from Donetsk is now fighting together with Russian troops against the Ukrainian army. In particular, The Daily Mirror was so brazen that they published a photo of Donetsk (which they say is being shelled by the Russian army), and at the same time, in the photo itself from Donetsk, you can see a poster where it says: "We are the Russian Donbass". There was also a photo from Donetsk, which the Italian newspaper La Stampa signed as "Così Kiev affronta l'assalto finale" ("Thus Kiev faces the final assault").
In Europe and the US, Russian central television is squeamishly called Putin’s propaganda, but the "Russian zombie TV" is light years behind the Western media in terms of brainwashing the population, and the editors of the Western media should be prosecuted for slander and inciting ethnic hatred.

The Ukrainian authorities lie that they are only targeting military infrastructure in Russian-controlled areas with artillery strikes. Europeans and Americans should know that women and children have been killed and injured for many days from weapons that are shipped to Ukraine from the West (Warning! Violent content! 1, 2, 3).


Caption on the photo:




On July 12, 2022, a correspondent of the Ukrainian TV channel VTV Plus published a video report on YouTube about a Ukrainian missile attack on Nova Kakhovka (Kherson region).
The text of her message, translated into English:

@suchmoon, returning to the question you asked about a genocide. Perhaps you are not aware, but in Russia the third person in the state is a native of Ukraine, Valentina Matvienko, however, just like Vladimir Medinsky, an assistant to the Russian president. This does not really fit into the version that the Russians hate Ukrainians so much that they are ready to exterminate them as a nation. A few days ago, Putin signed a decree on granting Russian citizenship to all residents of Ukraine in a simplified manner. Remind me of at least one such case in world history when the government of one country sought to destroy people of a certain nationality, but at the same time gave them passports.

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The mere fact of living in a country doesn't make its resident a priori a recognized expert in the foreign economy and politics of this state.
Are you sure that you yourself didn't become an object of "Scholz TV" propaganda, regarding your expectations, which do not at all coincide with the Germany possibilities?
The Bild experts do not share your bravado about the refusal of Russian gas. About replacing Russian gas - I don’t know what you are counting on, but German residents may soon start using wood instead of gas, like a hundred years ago.

While you're trying to make fun of Putin (judging by the many emoticons), Russia is now making more money from increased energy sales to China and India. As Aristotle said: "Nature abhors a vacuum".
For comparison, for the whole of 2021, Germany, being the largest importer of Russian energy, bought gas and oil from Russia at a total price of 20 billion euros. Moreover, many Russian citizens urge for a fast shutdown of all of Europe from Russian gas in response to sanctions, as well as for numerous calls of Western officials to defeat Russia on the battlefield; for the supply of weapons, military instructors, intelligence data and other military assistance to Ukraine.



As for Lavrov's words, you may be surprised, but he still claims that Russia didn't invade Ukraine.

You also mentioned ARD and ZDF TV channels, which "often presenting the Russian position". Maybe you are confusing the expression of a view with a regular quotation (such as "he said", "she claimed", etc.)? Well, in general, this is a regular thing in journalism, or do you want a total information boycott to operate in Germany without listening to the opinion of the other side? Speaking specifically about the ARD (Tagesschau) channel, it is not journalists who work there, but shameless propagandists who lied in June 2022 that Donetsk was shelled by Russian troops (see above).

Bayraktars TB2. How many were in Ukraine, and how many were destroyed by the Russian army.


Reminded me of the “Chinese whispers” game, when the original information is distorted by passing through several people. To get uncorrupted data, it is necessary that none of the transmitters spoil it along the way.

5 . I'm quoting LTU_btc
4 . . LTU_btc is quoting Medusa
3 . . . Medusa is quoting Proekt
2 . . . . Proekt is quoting Defense-UA <--- the weak link was found
1 . . . . . Defense-UA is quoting the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine
0 . . . . . . Ministry of Defense of Ukraine - the source



In short: 62 is the total number of drones ordered by Ukraine in 2021 (37 + 25): 37 units are Ukrainian drones ("Fury" and "Spectator") and 25 are bayraktars TB2. The presence of bayraktars in Ukraine in the amount of 60 to 96 units was reported this week by Ukrainian sources.

Having made a little effort to find original information, it becomes obvious that the so-called journalists from the "Proekt", in their attempts to accuse the Russian general staff of lying, are themselves carrying nonsense. I wonder, besides such "journalists", were there any official statements by the Ukrainian military command that the Russian Ministry of Defense provides falsified statistics on bayraktars? After all, this may raise questions from Turkish suppliers and other military departments cooperating with the Ukrainian side. I've tried to find messages by the name of Konashenkov on the Facebook pages of the Minister of Defense of Ukraine and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but no results.

Here is a comment from the "Proekt" website about the bayraktars, translated from Russian into English:

The fact that this is not a typo, and they are talking about 62 bayraktars, is confirmed by this video on their YouTube channel (time code 08:50). According to the "Proekt", for 100 days of the conflict (i.e. until June 4 2022), the RF Ministry of Defense reported about 75 destroyed bayraktars.



The journalists of the "Proekt" referred to the Ukrainian website Defense-UA. If you go to that site, then it talks about 62 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), and 25 of the 62 drones were to be delivered at the beginning of 2022.



The same Ukrainian source suggested - based on the money spent - that among the new UAV delivered to Ukraine there could also be bayraktars TB2's. Prices are $3.5 million for 37 drones and $108 million for 25 drones. Considering that the price of bayraktar TB2 = $5 million, there simply could not be bayraktars among those 37 units.



It must also be said that this nonsense about "62 bayraktars" was picked up by some Ukrainian media (1, 2)

Screenshot of the "Proekt" website, whose founders are spreading fakes.
Would it be better instead of drawing colorful pictures, they double-check the information published on their site, or is this not part of their main duties? Why do users have to search for everything themselves, wasting their time?



Now, that we have dealt with the lies of the "journalists", let's try to figure it out how many bayraktars in Ukraine were reported in more established media.

Information that Ukraine had from 20 to 50 bayraktars by the beginning of the Russian invasion was published by a number of media resources (AP, Forbes, FT, CNN, Reuters, Bloomberg, Report, DW, MWM, TSN).

On March 25, 2022, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported about 35 bayraktars destroyed out of 36 in total in service with Ukraine, then, apparently, the Russian side was guided by the same sources as the CNN, Reuters and Bloomberg at that time.


Translation of the line № 7: "UAV Bayraktar TB2. In service on 24.02.2022 = 36, Destroyed = 35 / 97% Loss"

Of course, no one except the military leadership of Ukraine knows the exact number of Turkish drones they use, as well as their losses. And even official statements by different parties to the conflict, most likely, will not mean the true state of affairs, since information is a weapon in capable hands.

However, this week news was released on the above-mentioned Ukrainian website Defense-UA, and it turned out that Ukraine had from 60 to 96 bayraktars in service, considering that one bayraktar complex contains 6 drones (*):



In addition to that, the Russian Ministry of Defense in mid-April reported that it had discovered 12 bayraktar complexes (72 drones).

Some forum users do not trust official Russian sources, in which case, is there a way for them to at least approximately find out how many bayraktars were destroyed in Ukraine?

On May 10, 2022, one of the Ukrainian Telegram channels, citing a source in the presidential administration, said that 50 bayraktars were lost.



Even if this is a lie that has nothing to do with reality, then don't you think it's strange that the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, constantly suffering from a lack of resources, needed to order a dozen more of these drones (which not the cheap) and Ukrainian volunteers are organizing a fundraiser for the purchase of Turkish drones. Here comes another question, why do they not want to buy drones of Ukrainian origin, but instead they are sponsoring the Turkish president's Erdogan family, whose son-in-law is a chief technology officer at Baykar company? It seems that Ukraine, with the support of Russia, is helping the Turkish military-industrial complex to enrich itself by sending expensive drones on suicide missions, while Russia is solving the problem of disposing of old Soviet ammunition on Ukrainian soil.

It's precisely clear that it is not in the interests of the Ministry of Defense of any country to publicly report on the amount of their destroyed equipment. This will undermine the morale of the soldiers and cool the ardor of the allies who send help. However, if the Ukrainian high military command doesn't comment at all on the briefings of the Russian Ministry of Defense, according to which about ~ 90 bayraktars have already been liquidated, then this may lead to some questions. Literally, an entire army of combat drones was destroyed.

The window below contains links to the briefings of the RF Ministry of Defense on the destroyed bayraktars. I got 85 (35 + 50) + another 10 (questionable) and two hangars with Turkish drones - this is from February 24 to June 21. The difficulty in the calculations is that after March 25, the Russian Ministry doesn't conduct a subset (I didn't find it), and some briefings close in dates and the same information is sometimes duplicated or intersected.

You have brought up many topics that I would like to comment on in detail. For ease reading, I will divide your post into several paragraphs.

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1. "This is interesting (i mean anthropological interest) russian propaganda take: west will fight against russia till last ukrainian".

Despite your objection, some experts are of the opinion about the "War of the West to the last Ukrainian" not only in Russia, but also in the United States and China, so this statement is not correct to call a "Russian propaganda take".



Source

US president Joe Biden at a meeting with employees of the American military plant Lockheed Martin said:

There was also a Twitter post from American Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who liked the idea of fighting Russia with someone else's hands, while saving the lives of American soldiers.



According to Bloomberg, three British ministers are deliberately fomenting conflict in Ukraine. About any interests of Ukrainians there is not even a question.

Here is another opinion from Charles Freeman - this is an American military diplomat, a former assistant secretary of defense of the United States.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng:

On June 15, 2022, one of the Ukrainian president advisers, David Arakhamia, reported catastrophic losses among Ukrainian soldiers. A few days before that, the Head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Oleksiy Reznikov admitted that even after being pumped with Western weapons, Ukraine is not able to fully resist Russia, and this despite the fact that only 15% of the entire Russian army is currently involved in Ukraine. Therefore, this is not a Russian propaganda take at all, but the policy of the Ukrainian government, urged on by the West. Despite the fact that Ukraine, even with the help of Western weapons and financial injections, has no way to defeat Russia (confirmations: 1, 2, 3), it still continues to drive people to slaughter in a conflict that was initially losing for Ukraine.


2. "Why it's interesting? Mostly because it shows ukrainians as some kind of brainless animals".

Not all the people of Ukraine, but specifically President Volodymyr Zelensky and his advisers, behave like crazy animals, or rather, like monkeys with a grenade.
Many Ukrainians believed President Volodymyr Zelensky in 2019 when he promised to end the military conflict in Donbas. However, Zelensky, thinking about support from NATO, broke his promise and instead of a peaceful settlement, on the contrary, in every possible way provoked an even greater aggravation of the conflict with Russia. Zelensky refused to comply with the Minsk agreements.
Before taking office as president of Ukraine, the most Zelensky managed was a humorous show. While Russia is the second army of the world and, according to Ukraine and many other European countries, Russia is an extremely warlike country, nevertheless, Zelensky literally laughed at Putin’s words about the Minsk agreement and provoked Moscow’s retaliatory aggression in every possible way. Zelensky insisted that Ukraine be accepted into NATO, and on February 19, 2022, he announced that Ukraine would revise the Budapest Memorandum on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons. This was probably the last straw of patience in the Kremlin. Judge for yourself what is the fate of nuclear weapons in a state where there are recognized neo-Nazis from the Azov Battalion, which is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. Moreover, according to US congressmen, the Azov battalion is associated with terrorist attacks in the US, and the US Congress has banned the supply of weapons to this battalion.


3. "And second, more important point is that russians bombing ukrainian cities..."

About two weeks ago, the Pentagon demanded from Kiev that the supplied American MRL's be placed either in the depths of the front or in cities. It seems that the US military command doesn't think at all what kind of threat their orders create for civilians living in cities.
There were also revelations from Zelensky's advisers - Arestovich, Podolyak that the Ukrainian army purposefully seeks to defend itself in cities, because Russians "fight badly" in cities, unlike open spaces.
The Ukrainian command is well aware that military equipment is a priority target for Russian troops. But all the same, according to the precepts of NATO, treating their own citizens as a human shield, they order heavy weapons to be located in residential areas.


4. "... killing ukrainian people"

On the UN website, civilians of Donetsk, who are now being shelled by Ukrainian artillery, are also attributed to the number of dead civilians of Ukraine. In Donetsk now there is no military equipment and warehouses with weapons, but Ukrainian artillery fire at any civilian infrastructure (market, maternity hospital, kindergarten, residential areas, etc.). It was found out that the blows were delivered from the side of Avdeevka with the help of French and American 155 mm caliber guns. Why does Kiev continue to order its military to shoot at peaceful Ukrainian citizens in the Donbass?
One more moment. There are geniuses who say that these shots are fired by the Russian army. Just think for a minute what the soldiers of the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Luhansk People’s Republic and all the inhabitants from there would do with the Russian army, if this were really confirmed. Such provocateurs still apparently "think" that the inhabitants of Donetsk and Luhansk have not learned in eight years to determine from whose side the shells are flying towards them and from which weapons they were fired.


5. "... raping ukrainian women"

The rape of not only women, but also children, men, old people (en masse) was covered by the Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova. She was dismissed from her post on May 31, 2022, with the wording: "The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine".
The dismissed Lyudmila Denisova admitted a little later that she talked about terrible things when she saw the fatigue of European countries from Ukraine and therefore Denisova wanted to push the Western powers to make decisions that Ukraine needed.
I consider it necessary to clarify: I am not saying that such cases could not have happened at all, but it was precisely those stories that Denisova spread that were not confirmed by the investigative committee of Ukraine.
When the former Ombudsman Lyudmila Denisova testified to the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office, she repeatedly stated that information about the city and names of the victims was confidential, and many of the victims had already left Ukraine. In fact, this is a rather delusional explanation on the part of Denisova, because in this way you can accuse anyone of anything.
If on our forum a user reports provocative, but at the same time unverified information that discredits the reputation of another user (for example, accuses of theft), then DT can often prescribe a red trust for such actions. However, what Denisova was doing was not just slander, but international information terrorism, because she accused Russian soldiers of inhuman violence and murder without evidence. Even during the open information war with Russia, the reports from the lips of the official representative of Ukraine were perceived by many people as truthful, while Denisova was only retelling stories from some unnamed persons who do not bear any responsibility in case of false testimony.
It also needs to be said that information about unconfirmed rapes by Russian soldiers (1, 2, 3, 4) to Lyudmila Denisova came from the "psychologist" Alexandra Kvitko, who is the youngest daughter of Lyudmila Denisova.




6. "... stealing ukrainian goods"

How many criminal cases have been opened in Ukraine about looting by Russian soldiers? I'm not talking about news channels, but specifically about the Ukrainian law enforcement agencies, which are obliged to engage in such investigations.
Many Ukrainians still sincerely believe that Russian soldiers, who receive from $4,000 a month, steal all sorts of household rubbish like washing machines, TVs, and even toilet bowls, risking their lives and the possibility of getting under a military tribunal for looting and desertion (otherwise, how can these things be to smuggle without escaping from the front?). This is despite the fact that the standard of living in Ukraine is lower than in Russia.
Now information is spreading around the world very quickly. Therefore, representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine must report to the whole world the numbers of criminal cases, data on Russian soldiers suspected of stealing, whom the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine is officially looking for, so that they are known everywhere.


7. "And then they like "oh, why ukrainians fighting??? Because The West tell them to do so".

In the modern information world, history is not written by the winners, but by those who own the media. I think few people will argue that in the Western world news channels are mainly owned by pro-American political forces, which of all countries in recent years have made the most efforts to pump weapons into Ukraine. What is the benefit of this military conflict for the United States? In recent months, the profits of the American military-industrial complex have increased significantly, Europe is reducing the purchase of Russian gas in favor of more expensive, American liquefied gas. While US officials demand that other countries stop buying Russian oil, at the same time, Russian oil imports to the US, on the contrary, have increased. The Biden government blames Vladimir Putin for the US financial crisis. Just take a closer look at the actions of the main beneficiary of this conflict and for whose interests the Ukrainian soldiers are now fighting. After all, propaganda is not only Russian, but also American, English, German and even Ukrainian. Why in the Kherson region, which surrendered without a fight to the Russian army, now you don’t hear about a fierce partisan movement, and also think about why the Armed Forces of Ukraine interfere with the work of cellular communications and the Internet in Kherson, perhaps the residents of the city could tell more than what they usually say on public Ukrainian information channels.

Many prominent American and European military experts and journalists do not share this optimism at all and argue that Ukraine is doomed to defeat and loss of territories in any case.



Council on Foreign Relations - May 31, 2022
Stephen M. Twitty
"Well, as I take a look at this, you know, Secretary Austin came out that we’re going to weaken Russia. We have not really defined what weaken means, because if you take a look at the Ukrainians right now, I take a strong belief in Colin Powell’s doctrine — you overwhelm a particular enemy with force. And right now, when you take a look at Ukraine and you take a look at Russia, they’re about one to one. The only difference is Russia has a heck of a lot of combat power than the Ukrainians. And so there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever destroy or defeat the Russians, and so we got to really figure out what does weaken mean in the end state here. And I will also tell you, Richard, there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever have enough combat power to kick the Russians out of Ukraine as well, and so what does that look like in the end game".

NRC - June 2, 2022
Ian Buruma
"Ukraine's demand that Russia withdraw from all their territory is a legitimate move. But it's a move, not an ultimatum. Once negotiations begin, compromises will have to be made. This could mean that Ukraine renounces its desire to join NATO. It could also end in Russian rule in Crimea and parts of the Donbas".

The New York Times - June 4, 2022
Ross Douthat
"But given the state of the war right now, the more likely near-future scenario is one where Russian collapse remains a pleasant fancy, the conflict becomes stalemated and frozen, and we have to put our Ukrainian policy on a sustainable footing without removing Putin’s regime or dismantling the Russian empire".

The National Interest - June 4, 2022
Hugh De Santis
"Having come to the defense of Ukraine, the United States and its allies must persuade Kyiv to bring this war to an end, including by imposing limits on further military aid as leverage. A Ukrainian military victory is not in the cards, and a negotiated outcome is the only realistic goal. To achieve it, Zelenskyy and his advocates in Eastern Europe and the Baltic states must accept that Ukraine will be a neutral state and that it will concede to Russia the Donbas oblasts of Donetsk and Luhansk, as well as Crimea. Given the sentiment of Russian separatists in the Donbas, retaining the region would be fraught with continuing tension in the future".

American Thinker - June 4, 2022
Robert Hunter
"A NATO victory in any kind of war with Russia in Europe is unlikely without recourse to nuclear weapons. Total defeat for the alliance at the hands of the Russians is highly probable. The United States must do everything it can to avoid this possibility by disavowing any intention of engaging in hostilities, desisting from arming Ukraine, and encouraging both sides to negotiate a peace deal".

Die Welt - June 5, 2022
Edward Luttwak
"The curious and strange thing about Russia is that even if it didn't have nuclear weapons, it would be impossible to achieve a Ukrainian victory in the sense that the Russians would be forced to withdraw completely, maybe even from Crimea".

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Ukraine will not become a member of the EU in the next 15-20 years for many reasons: disputed territories, a huge external debt, a high level of corruption, numerous violations of human rights, oppression of people based on their nationality, etc. If this is not enough for you, then study the comments of the EU officials.



French President Emmanuel Macron: "Ukraine bid to join EU will take decades".
Dutch PM Mark Rutte: "Unlikely that Ukraine will become a candidate for EU membership".
Italy PM Mario Draghi: "Almost all major EU countries oppose granting Ukraine candidate status".

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Apparently you are talking about propaganda without being sufficiently informed.
Here is the information from the OSCE report about the torture of "pro-Russian" civilians in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions by the armed forces and security forces of Ukraine.



"Based on the information collected by the Foundation, a clear conclusion can be drawn that most of the torture victims are not members of the Donetsk or Lugansk People’s Republics’ self-defense forces, but civilians. A ‘reason’ for arrest and torture of civilians by the Ukrainian side can be as simple as involvement in anti-Euromaidan rallies, participation in Russian TV shows, expression of your opinion on the Internet, involvement in pro-DPR rallies, participation in the referendum, ‘possession of a telephone number of a Russian journalist’, ‘Caucasian names – Aslan, Uzbek’ in the personal phone contacts, a phone conversation with people from ‘the Donetsk People’s Republic’, ‘receiving medical assistance in the DPR’, etc. The same absurdity and lack of substantial evidence is characteristic of the other accusations".

There are also videos and articles about how Ukrainian aircraft and artillery fired on the LPR and DPR civilians.

Warning! The footage below contains violent scenes!
June 2, 2014, Lugansk - CNN article - OSCE report
July 27, 2014, Gorlovka in Donetsk region
July 28, 2014, Lugansk
July 20, 2014, Avdiivka in Donetsk region
August 13, 2014, Zugres in Donetsk region

I see that this voluminous and categorically important topic has been raised again.
After all, the argument about the denazification of Ukraine is one of the main factors in the support of the Russian population, which increased even more after the publication of videos showing Ukrainian soldiers installing military equipment in residential areas, and Russian war prisoners being tortured.
This support for Putin was confirmed even by the Russian opposition.



Against the backdrop of current events, the rhetoric of some experts has intensified that Hitler's Nazism is only about anti-Semitism, and that the presence of Vladimir Zelensky, who is a Jew, in the presidential post in Ukraine, shatters Putin's argument about denazification.
However, if we turn to the origins, then according to the book of Adolf Hitler, his goals concerned not only the Jews. Hitler was going to take over the living space in the East and considered the Slavic peoples to be an inferior race. During the Second World War, millions of Soviet citizens were exterminated in the death camps, mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. Consequently, Hitler's Nazism manifested itself not only in relation to the Jews, but also to the Slavs. Moreover, the authors of modern Ukrainian textbooks call Ukrainians one of the oldest agricultural civilizations and allegedly are "Slavicized Germans". At the same time, the Russians are supposedly not Slavs, and are of Finno-Ugric origin.
By the way, residents of Ukraine in social networks and on forums often call Russia - "Mordor", and Russians - "orcs". Judging by this logic, Ukrainians apparently consider themselves like elves or what?

Now we need to answer the question, was Putin's statement alone enough for Russian citizens to believe about the struggle of the Russian army against Nazism in Ukraine? Did ordinary Russian people have reason to believe that the modern Kyiv regime condones the spread of Nazi ideology, or, to be more precise, its offshoot in the form of Russophobia? Undoubtedly, there were such facts, and this was actively promoted by the ruling Ukrainian elite, which, in a decade and a half, was able to kindle the fire of Russophobia, unprecedented since the time of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (1942-1956).

1. In 2017, NBC News released a video about Ukrainian children's military camps, where kids were taught military training and Russophobic chants like "Death to the Muscovites!" and "Beat the Muscovites! Pile up the dead!"
2. There were other Russophobic chants from schoolchildren and young men, such as "Muscovite on a branch!" and "Muscovites on the knives!"
3. The torchlight processions in honor of the Nazi Stepan Bandera.
4. The names of the streets in honor of the SS division Galicia.
5. The neo-Nazi Azov battalion in the National Guard of Ukraine.
6. The positive attitude of President Zelensky and a large number of Ukrainians towards Stepan Bandera.
7. After 2014, the use of the Russian language In Ukraine was methodically limited at the legislative level. In May 2022, people who spoke Russian began to be beaten on the streets in Western Ukraine.

Before 2022, various Russophobic actions were widespread in Ukraine, under the guise of allegedly "trolling in the direction of the Kremlin propaganda".
Examples of such frenzied Russophobia in Ukraine, which they call "jokes". Links are given only to Ukrainian sources.
- Compote "Blood of Russian babies"
- Cake in the form of a baby, lying on the Russian tricolor
- "Colorado beetles in Odessa style, baked" (note: in 2014, 42 people who protested against the Maidan were burned alive in Odessa)
- "Separ in sour cream in the sauce of Russian-speaking babies" (the date on the banks 06.10.1942 apparently refers to an agreement on supplies from the USA to the USSR during World War II).
- "The last shelter of a separatist with the aroma of the Donetsk morgue". This is about predominantly Russian-speaking Donetsk, whose citizens the Kiev government has been bombing since 2014 and is still bombing. Ukraine from April 2014 to February 2022 is conducting a so-called anti-terrorist operation against residents of eastern Ukraine who protested against the illegal overthrow of the president and wanted to receive a special legal status within the country.



To those who say that this is just trolling and never Nazism - if you replaced the word "Russian" with "Jewish" or "African" in the name of these products, then the world society would instantly harshly criticize such "jokers". This is the most natural Nazism, no matter what words they try to cover it up with. And the fact that in Ukraine no one has been sued for this shows proving that these actions were encouraged at the highest levels. In fact, this is not trolling at all, but years of incited hatred broadcast in Ukraine against Russian-speaking people. It looks like a well-planned action to pit two neighboring peoples on ethnic and linguistic grounds. The purpose of these events is to introduce into the minds of Ukrainians literally a *cannibalistic rhetoric* that Russian and pro-Russian minded people are subhuman, whose deaths mean nothing. The consequences of such a policy can be seen in the way Ukrainian nationalists torturing Russian war prisoners and terrorized civilians in the eastern regions of Ukraine.

If someone sincerely believes that the incitement of an ethnic conflict in Ukraine against Russia is natural and only Russia is to blame for this, then these people most likely forgot that during the Cold War, the US Central Intelligence Agency didn't hesitate to cooperate with Ukrainian Nazis for subversive activities against the USSR. In 2014-2021, the Western media saw Ukrainian nationalists as a serious threat (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), but then this topic has been carefully muffled and it was called as Kremlin propaganda. And it looks very much like the current US government is following a 70-year-old pattern, taking advantage of nationalist groups in Ukraine.

- Cold War Allies: The origin of CIA's Relationship with Ukrainian Nationalists
- Background: The West collaborated with the Nazis to carry out the coup in Ukraine in 2014
- CIA‘s Use of Nazi Strategy on Ukrainian Right-Wing Nationalists Unabated since Cold War

to TwitchySeal


"Just an excuse", you say?
Here are the fighters from the Azov Battalion who have been carrying out punitive operations against the population of Mariupol since 2014.
During the surrender, they undressed and showed to the camera their tattoos with images of Adolf Hitler, his quotes and the SS symbols.



Video: https://t.me/milchronicles/533
Adolf Hitler's quote on the tattoo

The problem is that Azov is not the only military battalion in Ukraine that terrorizes the peaceful Ukrainian population. There are even less known, but no less dangerous, such as Aidar, Donbas, Dnepr-1 and others.

You are mistaken that in Russia all Ukrainians are considered Nazis. Russophobia began to spread across Ukraine after the Orange Revolution in the 2000s. Prior to this, the Nazis in Ukraine could simply be driven out of the square just for trying to hold a meeting. But then in Ukraine, at the state level, they began to glorify Stepan Bandera and hold torchlight processions in his honor with the permission of the Ukrainian authorities, and ultra-right groups received powerful political and financial support. People in Ukraine began to be afraid to openly express their negative attitude towards Bandera and the OUN-UPA. After the anti-constitutional coup in 2014, Ukraine began to ban the teaching of the Russian language in schools and serve people in stores in Russian. This is taking into account the fact that for millions of citizens of Ukraine, the Russian language is native from birth. Imagine, if, for example, in Belgium they began to rapidly infringe on French-speaking citizens, then in your opinion this would not aggravate the situation in the country, and how would neighboring France and the entire European community react then? Wouldn't anyone condemn such actions?

I tell you, this is a dangerous illusion, mainly for ordinary Ukrainian soldiers, who are now being used as cannon fodder and they immediately understand how things are when they find themselves under the onslaught of Russian artillery, tanks and aircraft without a normal ability to resist. The trouble is that they understand this too late (here are their appeals, some of which I have already published earlier in my posts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

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to paxmao

Did you deliberately ignore the part that Azov was recognized by the US Congress as a neo-Nazi group and Congress banned the supply of weapons to them?

Too many events preceded this invasion to call it as you do it. Briefly, in 2014, an unconstitutional coup took place in Ukraine, forcibly removing President Yanukovych. Then one million people in Kyiv decided for a country of 45 million how it should live. This did not suit many Ukrainians and they decided to protest. Protest movements were strongest in eastern Ukraine, where there is a large Russian-speaking population. In some places, these riots were brutally suppressed, especially in Mariupol and Odessa, where 42 people were burned alive. But in Donetsk and Lugansk they failed to suppress the protests. Then the acting President of Ukraine Oleksandr Turchynov announced the start of the anti-terrorist operation (ATO). In order to somehow resolve this conflict, the Minsk agreements were concluded in 2015.
For seven years, Ukraine has not complied with the Minsk agreements, designed to end hostilities in the Donbass. In mid-February 2022, President Volodymyr Zelensky said that this document puts Ukraine in a "weaker, losing position". Russia recognized the sovereignty of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, based as a precedent on the decision of the International Court of Justice to recognize the independence of Kosovo. The treaties of friendship and mutual assistance were signed between Russia, the DPR and the LPR then. The Russian side and the heads of the republics demanded that Ukraine stop hostilities in the Donbass, but President Zelensky refused to withdraw Ukrainian troops. Following this, Russia invaded Ukraine, invoking Article 51 of Title VII of the UN Charter.

There are reviews of many journalists and bloggers from different countries that this war is connected with Nazism. Most likely, you just don’t want to notice them.
British radio host Maajid Nawaz
Indian Youtube channel CRUX
French journalist Anne-Laure Bonnel
German journalist Thomas Röper
Chilean blogger Gonzalo Lira
Italian journalist Giorgio Bianchi
English journalist Peter Hitchens
French journalist Adrien Boquet

You are obviously confusing something. These are Ukrainian soldiers torturing Russian prisoners of war. The exchange fund in Ukraine now has from 150 to 400 captured Russians, while there are already more than 6,000 captured Ukrainian soldiers.

Bold statement, what is it based on? On articles in the Western and Ukrainian press or the results of independent international investigations? In any case, if you think the Russian army is terrorist, then why do many countries continue to purchase Russian resources, thereby sponsoring the Russian military-industrial complex? If follow your logic, all the buyer countries cooperating with Russia are sponsors of terrorism, is that so?


Source

Do you sincerely think that such beliefs can influence someone in Russia? Do you think how many Russians read you here, especially those who are now fighting at the front?

This is not public opinion at all, the issues of Ukraine and, in general, armed conflicts between nations are now worrying people in the world (including the United States) much less than the problem of inflation.

You may not know, but the Ukrainian government cut Crimea off from fresh water in 2014. The Russian government managed to solve this problem then.

If Ukraine considers Crimea its territory, then why did the Ukrainian authorities in 2014 cut off the access of fresh water to the peninsula? Isn't this a crime against its own population? Can you explain further how the issue with Crimea is fundamentally different from Kosovo?

You probably didn’t notice that even the American press already admits that Ukraine will most likely be forced to come to terms with the loss of territories, including Crimea. If you harbor unrealizable illusions about the return of the lands, then this will only lead to even greater sacrifices.

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to suchmoon

If measures are limited only to this, then this is clearly not enough. Ukrainian internal organs should seek to prosecute criminals at the international level, like such structures as Interpol, so that as soon as the accused is outside Russia, he is immediately arrested and taken to Ukraine. And It would be rather strange if this was not done, because, for example, the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs put a Russian opera singer and film director on the international wanted list for supporting the Russian army.

There is a problem, but it does not apply to me. You immediately accept as an indisputable truth if the American, British or Ukrainian press writes that Russian troops have committed a war crime. But when there are reports of crimes committed by the Ukrainian side, such as the torture of Russian captured soldiers or when the Ukrainian military deploys military equipment in residential areas (examples 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), you dismiss them and call it "unconfirmed video or speculation". This is a prejudiced attitude.

Do you think that there is no censorship in the Western and Ukrainian press?

How would you call the situation when in Ukraine armed soldiers come to citizens who are posting pro-Russian posts, and then the military takes them away to the cry of their relatives?
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1520735279249862658
Or when the Ukrainian authorities do not allow 21 Turkish ships to leave the port of Odessa and use them as a human shield to create an obstacle to an attack on the city. Note that this is written by a Turkish newspaper.

By the way, it looks like he blurted out too much and because of this, Zelensky’s lies were accidentally discovered.
Polish President Andrzej Duda, in an interview with the Polska Times, said that Zelensky knew in advance about the impending offensive of Russian troops. Then why did the Time magazine present information in such a way that it was a "big surprise" for Zelensky and he allegedly had to wake his children when the invasion began? Why didn't Zelensky warn Ukrainian citizens about the impending attack and save people's lives if he knew about that? Below are quotes from two newspapers.

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to DaRude


Polls among the Ukrainian population in April 2021 showed a level of positive attitude towards Stepan Bandera at about 31%, and towards the UPA - 46%. The survey was conducted among 2000 respondents aged 18 and over in all regions except for the DPR, LPR and Crimea.
Maybe you will be interested in the links to historical sources confirming that Stepan Bandera's group (OUN b) collaborated with Nazi Germany.

Translation from Ukrainian
№119 Instruction No. 6 of the regional conductor of the OUN (S. Bandera) on the ZUZ I. Klimiv (E. Legends) on Ukrainization of personnel in administrative, economic, political and military affairs


The OUN, the UPA and the Holocaust: A Study in the Manufacturing of Historical Myths

Just please do not copy my entire post for a comment.

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to af_newbie

Odessa 2014, Mariupol 2014, Donbass 2014-2021

Source

Stop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then. Azov is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. What other countries have Nazis officially in the army, if you know of such examples?
You refuse to acknowledge the obvious. In Ukraine, civil servants (SBU - possibly like those who wear SS patches) killed their negotiator because they thought he supported pro-Russian views, and you just brush it off, like this is all nonsense and Putin propaganda.
From the 2nd minute of this video, SBU officer Vyacheslav Shevchuk recalled the mayor of Kremenny Vladimir Struk, who was waiting for the "Russian peace" and who was later found shot dead with a bag on his head. From 3 minutes 40 seconds, an SBU officer tells how six citizens were executed "without trial or investigation" accused of complicity with the Russian army, that they allegedly set up beacons. Some users may say that these are cruel wartime laws. And if, under the guise of traitors, objectionable people are thus eliminated? Because without a trial they can accuse any person of betrayal and immediately shoot him.
Ukrainian President Zelensky calls it "normal and cool" that some Ukrainians consider the Nazi Stepan Bandera a national hero. Zelensky's adviser, Mikhail Podolyak, says that in the south-eastern regions of Ukraine they should clear the land from collaborators and forget the word "Russian". Is it worth recalling that millions of Russian-speaking people live in these areas? Do you have any idea what will happen to them when the armed Ukrainian nationalists get there? Most likely, much worse than what happened in Donbass in 2014-2021, when 14,000 people died.



This is the same lady who claims that Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian women on Putin's orders. Do you unquestioningly believe her, even if her statements about child abuse contradict the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office?



If he is guilty, he should be punished, better in Ukraine. There are hundreds of reports on the network about the atrocities of Russian soldiers. How many criminal cases have been opened and criminals named so far? None of the normal person will protect them. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are required to publish complete information so that the thieves and rapists become known in Russia.
The Russian military also caught a Ukrainian rapist in Mariupol in April 2022. This is the deputy commander of the fire support company of the military unit A-2777, senior lieutenant Sergei Batynsky. He raped a woman at gunpoint and killed her husband.


You often quote American and English magazines, apparently considering them indisputable authoritative sources, to accuse Russia. Even the most famous newspaper is not a judicial department to accuse anyone, because there is such a thing as "presumption of innocence". Remember this definition? The United States is the main sponsor of Ukraine's military operations and is the most active on its side, and it is unlikely that there are large independent magazines anywhere in the world that are completely outside the control of governments. For prosecution, an international independent investigation must first be carried out. I and any adequate person will not defend criminals, no matter what country they belong to, if their guilt is proven in an independent court. Articles in an American, English, German and any other newspaper can serve as an additional source of information, but in no way can be evidence of a serious crime, especially now, during the open information war between the countries of the West and Russia.

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Just warn people that a woman who is accused of changing the price tag in a store now faces up to 10 years in a Russian prison.



This is an illusion, and a very dangerous one for all parties.
Ukraine will not be able to regain Crimea under any circumstances, since Russia's nuclear doctrine states that it will use nuclear weapons if the Kremlin decides that the existence of the state will be threatened.

Ukraine is preparing to extend the mobilization, the territorial defense is being sent to the front, criminals are being released from prisons so that they go to war. Whereas Russia has involved so far 15% of the total Russian army (150,000 out of 1 million). In Russia, you don't even need to declare mobilization, as there are unused contract soldiers, volunteers who fully support Putin's policies, and militant citizens with combat experience who want to go to the front.

- This conflict will drag on because the act of surrender and the surrender of several regions will mean a death sentence for Zelensky. If he admits defeat, he will be executed by his own nationalists, as was the case with one of the Ukrainian negotiators, therefore Zelensky puts conditions that are impossible for Russia to fulfill, he will negotiate only if Donbass, Crimea and the Kherson region are given to Ukraine.
- Russia will not give up these territories and will continue the offensive. If the Russian command feels that they will not be able to win this war, then they can use nuclear weapons, since for it the retreat and loss of territories is comparable to self-destruction. After admitting defeat, Russia will be in a much worse position than it is now, under > 10,000 sanctions. Even those who were neutral will turn away from her, and, most likely, a civil war will begin in the country, since the Russian population will not forgive such a result to their government. Therefore, the issue of victory is a matter of survival for Russia, it cannot simply turn back.
- The US views Ukraine as its own important strategic and economic asset. The US government has invested tens of billions of dollars in Ukraine, for years prepared Ukraine for resistance to Russia, pumped it up with weapons and most likely US doesn't want to give Russia the giant shale gas deposits in the Donbass.

In your opinion, Russophobia and calls for the extermination of Russians is not a kind of Nazi ideology?

Here are some examples of Russophobia in Ukraine.

1. Ukrainian schoolchildren shout in 2013 that Russians should be hanged - "Mocкaлякy нa гиллякy - xтo нe cкaчe тoй мocкaль!" By the way, their jumps with Nazi chants is very similar to the Austrians in 1938.
2. Kyiv youth shouting the Nazi anthem in 2016, calling for the killing of Russians.

Here is the text of this anthem in Ukrainian:
3. A Ukrainian TV presenter quotes an SS officer and threatens to kill Russian children.
4. Ukrainian soldier says that the Russian nation must be destroyed.
5. The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Dnepropetrovsk Boris Filatov in April 2022 called for the killing of Russians around the world.
6. In Ukrainian Telegram chats they mock and insult the Soviet 18-year-old partisan, who was tortured and hanged by the German Nazis during the Second World War, and the monument in her honor is being demolished. You can read the information about this girl on Wikipedia.
7. Ukrainian textbooks say that the ancestors of the French, Portuguese, Spaniards, Turks and even Jews came from Ukrainian Galicia, that Ukrainians are almost the oldest nation, and Russians are not even Slavs, but Finno-Ugric peoples.

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About the rapes. There were many reports in Ukrainian news resources about the rapes of Ukrainian children by Russian soldiers (examples: 1, 2, 3).

However, on May 11, 2022, the Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights, Daria Gerasimchuk, stated other information:
01:08:44 BELSAT NEWS host: "There were reports in the press that children were victims of violence by the Russian occupiers. Do you have any data that could confirm this?"
01:08:56 Daria Gerasimchuk: "Today, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine doesn't have a single confirmed fact of violence ... yet. Most likely, because people are not ready to report it. Therefore, the data to which everyone is now appealing, then, there were such cases, most likely.

That is, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine has no facts of such violence, but according to rumors have there been such cases? This is nonsense, because these are empty accusations of terrible crimes, not based on facts. Doesn't it seem strange to you that many people are ready to talk to journalists about inhuman cases of violence against themselves, but at the same time refuse to report to law enforcement agencies so that criminal cases can be opened? I may be wrong, but even if the victim refuses to testify, if there is evidence, the police still open a criminal case.

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Perhaps you didn't know, but actually Russians and Ukrainians fought as part of the Soviet army against Germany and its allies.
Therefore, when you accuse the Russians of war crimes during the Second World War, you accuse the Ukrainians along with them.
Further. As you say, *the Russians* were guilty of all these crimes during the Second World War, then why did the allies of the USSR (the Americans, the British and the French) keep silent about that during the Nuremberg Trial? Do you think they covered up criminals? Then they are also to blame. Then why are you silent about their complicity?


It looks like fake. Provide a link to the source, please.

On the desire of Poland to seize Western Ukraine


It seems that, according to some users here, US army colonel Douglas Macgregor, who talks about a possible takeover of western Ukraine by Poland, is also a Russian propagandist.

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Ukrainian losses near Snake Island


A week ago, the Ukrainian media reported the loss of two Ukrainian pilots from the 10th Naval Aviation Brigade (Nikolaev) Igor Bedzai and Vasily Ilchuk, and the death of the second was definitely as a result of the battle for Snake Island. But, apparently, Ukrainian losses in the Western media are not widely covered, so that Western officials do not lose their desire to supply weapons to Ukraine, and Ukrainian men do not lose the motivation to go to fight at the front.

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The myth that Ukraine is a democratic state


You call a "democratically elected government" what was elected five years after the anti-constitutional coup in Kyiv in 2014 (Euromaidan), when 1 million protesters decided for 45 million Ukrainians how they should live, without holding a general vote. Protests against the illegal coup were brutally suppressed in Mariupol and Odessa in 2014. Acting President of Ukraine Aleksandr Turchynov initiated an anti-terrorist operation (ATO) against the DPR and LPR, and under this sauce the Kyiv authorities bombed their own population for several years, as a result of which 14,000 people died, including more than a hundred children. Residents of the republics unrecognized by Kyiv at first didn't want to separate from Ukraine at all, they just wanted to remain part of the country, but to be given the opportunity to speak and teach children in Russian. But after the brutal treatment of the people of Donbass by the Ukrainian government, they now perceive it as a sworn enemy. Euromaidan in Kyiv is as if Trump supporters in 2021 managed to carry out a coup d'état by capturing the Capitol, and then they would call their government democratic.
Considering Ukraine a democratic state is at least naive.
Under President Petr Poroshenko (2014-2019), the Prosecutor General of Ukraine was thrown out of office in exchange for $1 billion when his personality didn't suit the American government (read - Biden). This is direct proof that Ukraine is just a US puppet.
Zelenskiy is now banning opposition parties in Ukraine and, in fact, only one state-owned TV channel operates there.
In March, a member of the first Ukrainian negotiating delegation, Denis Kireev, was shot dead in Kyiv by SBU officers because he could support Russia. In April, Zelensky took hostage the head of an opposition party, Ukrainian citizen Medvedchuk, and wanted to exchange him for captured Ukrainian soldiers. I don't remember something like that in the history of democratic states, so that their citizens were forcibly captured, in order to be later exchanged for other soldiers of their own.
In Ukraine, they even publicly kidnap priests.
In the so-called democratic Ukraine, citizens *suspected of theft* - instead of taking them to the police - are tied to poles, doused with green paint, take off their pants and beaten. Is this the standard of democracy to which we should strive?
And Western propaganda is at least no better than Russian propaganda. German journalists deleted video with uncomfortable eyewitness testimony from Mariupol. The Spanish TV channel deliberately did not insert subtitles with a translation about how the Azov people threatened to kill civilians. The English "journalist" abruptly interrupted the broadcast when he had nothing to object to the Russian diplomat. The Italian magazine La Stampa published a photo from Donetsk, which was hit by a Ukrainian rocket for a photo from Kyiv. There are many more examples of how people in Western countries are being brainwashed.

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Mariupol today


Why are you spreading unsubstantiated rumors about Mariupol? There are two videos on May 14 and May 15, and neither fires nor floods are visible there.

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The lie that the whole world hates Russia


The world is not limited only to Western countries. According to The Economist, far from the whole world is against Russia.

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Corruption in Ukraine


It's not about the wealth of certain people as such, but how it was acquired and how it is being spent now.
Here's what happens when expensive weapons and financial help are delivered to the one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.

https://ukranews.com/en/news/852117-ukraine-establishes-limited-list-of-customs-clearance-points-for-cars-from-eu-for-its-own-needs

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Who actually bears the main losses in Ukraine


So far, outsiders are the Ukrainian soldiers, who have released video appeals about how they were betrayed by the command (1, 2) and foreign mercenaries:


Link to the original article in The Telegraph

As I understand it, you are discussing the battle for the crossing of the Seversky Donets River?
If so, then on May 12, General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported that in the Liman direction the Russian troops crossed the Seversky Donets River to bring in the main forces and carry out the offensive.

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Why are the photos taken at a distance and why are no bodies visible? There is an analysis of these images in Russian, where the author comes to the conclusion that both sides suffered losses, and not just the Russian army. Given the summary of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine dated May 12, 2022, this sounds plausible.

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Zelensky earned much more.


https://twitter.com/fvdemocratie/status/1518534232397787138

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I saw your posts that
- Russian culture will be permanently erased from Ukraine
- Russians are animals
- All Russian soldiers, their collaborators, and their families will be liquidated, one by one.
To dot the i's, can you please tell us what is your opinion about the UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) during World War II and Stepan Bandera? Are they heroes or war criminals?

The video from the CNN report raises a lot of questions if you start to analyze it in detail.
As a result, it seems that frames from different time periods were taken and mixed with each other.

There are two versions of CNN's coverage of the event: on the CNN website and on YouTube.
For scene timing, I will use the one posted on YouTube, as there is a more convenient player, in my opinion.

Video
00:40 The shadows in the very beginning of the scene are in front of people
00:45 In the shooting scene, the shadows are already shifted to the left of the people, at a noticeable angle. But the CNN report gives the impression that only a few seconds elapsed between these two scenes.



01:18 A suspicious white civilian car with the inscription "Tank Special Forces V RUS". According to a Russian military expert: 1) the Russian Federation doesn't have such a unit; 2) none of the military would let such a transport through; 3) it is extremely dangerous to drive such vehicles in a war zone, as there is a great vulnerability to any type of small arms.



01:57 In the upper frame, a yellow car is visible standing outside the gate, but in the lower frames (supposedly filmed at the same moment), this car is not visible.



Many of the shots have the date cut off. On a few scenes the dates are visible, but they change from Friday to Saturday and from Saturday to Friday. The frame with the word "FRI" (Friday) is not fully visible in the Youtube footage, but it is on the CNN home site, watch the video from 2 minutes 19 seconds.



More information is in the detailed analysis of this video in English.

Also, in early May 2022, the NYPost published an article providing additional food for thought: "Biden’s new press secretary sparks conflict-of-interest concerns over relationship with CNN’s Suzanne Malveaux".

The quote about the 152 Ukrainian aircraft was on March 25, 2022.
After that, in April, Ukraine's Air Force received 20 more aircraft, according to CNN.

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An investigation is not a matter of faith, it should be based on a qualitative examination and an objective assessment of the facts presented, regardless of which side points to them.
Have you wondered why the investigation in the theater is not carried out by independent UN experts, but by the US news agency?
Speaking about the AP, some statements cast doubt on its neutrality:

There was an OSCE report about the Mariupol Drama Theatre. They write: "This incident constitutes most likely an egregious violation of IHL391 and those who ordered or executed it committed a war crime".
However, when accusing someone of such grave crimes, the phrase "most likely" is inappropriate. Indisputable evidence must be provided, confirmed by independent analysts.
Also, about the OSCE organization, which should be neutral to different sides of the conflict - Moscow has vetoed their observation mission in Ukraine, since, according to the Russian side, the OSCE acted in favor of Kyiv. Moreover, a Russian war correspondent stated in April that the OSCE was involved in transmitting data to the Ukrainian side and adjusting fire on DPR facilities and Russian Federation convoys.

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What you posted is propaganda, which is designed to raise the morale of Ukrainians so that they go to fight against Russia. But information from direct witnesses and Ukrainian sources speaks of a different truth.
- The Times war correspondent Anthony Loyd visited the front in the village of Peski and found out that two brigades of Ukrainian troops had been ravaged by Russian bombardment in the Donbas in the space of just over a week.
- A Canadian sniper who returned from Ukraine said in an interview that many Western mercenaries come to Ukraine with their chests puffed out and leave with their tails between their legs and Ukrainian soldiers suffer very heavy losses from shelling.
- At the end of April, Ukrainian telegram channels estimated the loss of Ukrainian armed forces between 13,000 and 25,000 people.
- Ukrainian soldiers were sent to fight with only machine guns, a couple of grenades and defective body armors, against Russian Grad, mortars, aviation, BTR's, tanks. From a company of 110 Ukrainian people, less than half remained.
- A post on a Ukrainian Telegram channel how so-called "rusty Russian missiles" destroyed Ukrainian air defense.

On this week Ukrainian parliamentarians "allowed" the Territorial Defense Forces, together with other groupings of troops, to carry out combat missions outside their territorial communities. Prior to this, in February 2022, the Parliament of Ukraine stated that the Ukrainian Armed Forces would be strengthened by territorial defense units only in case of emergency.

If you watch a longer, 2-minute footage, you can see that after the strike at the end of the video, the boat didn't sink, but continued to swim.
Is there any evidence that these boats sank afterwards?

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Is it known how thoroughly the AP studied the version with an explosion inside the building? What experts do AP rely on?
The Russian side cited the opinion of Vladislav Ivanovich Telichko, the former Deputy Minister for Emergency Situations of Ukraine, who refutes the airstrike version. According to him, the explosion was carried out inside the theater.
Video with his commentary: https://t.me/srochnow/6820
A translation from Russian to English
01:50 - "Here's another interesting point. This is a fire hydrant. If the explosion had been a little higher at this level, then these articulated joints and everything else would have been deformed or, most likely, even destroyed. But since there were several storey mates and a load-bearing wall, they closed this niche from below. Above us is a roof. If there was an explosion from above, then this swivel would not function. According to this picture of the explosion, the explosion was clearly under the lower layer of reinforced concrete base, on which there was an auditorium and the stage itself".
03:14 - "You see, what I said. There was a third floor, and this is the first floor. The lower, the greater the deformation, much stronger and more. That is, the epicenter of the explosion was under all structures".
04:17 - "The reinforced concrete slab was completely destroyed, and it all went down. The explosion was from below".

Pro-Ukrainian individuals may accuse Vladislav Telichko of bias or subjectivity, that's why such high-profile events should be investigated by independent experts who are neutral towards both sides of the conflict.

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Under this video, one user left a comment, that it was a Russian retaliatory strike on a Ukrainian howitzer.

A translation from Russian to English
Svetlana Vakulenko: "Kharkiv News should also tell that it was a response from the Russian Federation. Maybe someone will tell why it was necessary the AFU show themself first - from a self-propelled howitzer in the direction of Zhukov, in the area of the park, along Novgorodskaya st. (traces of caterpillars on the street are difficult to remove) - and then catch the answer? There are enough witnesses of the shooting of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Novgorodskaya. A big thank you to the public utilities and firefighters for their work!"

Looks like this user was talking about the northwestern part of the park: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0218228,36.2445698,17z

Original

Vele0r

I'm in!

It's a false statement that US soldiers are not involved in this conflict:
Americans Are “In Charge” of the War Says French Journalist Who Returned From Ukraine
US Army veteran, 47, who left Connecticut to join Ukraine's battle against Russia
MSNBC analyst Malcolm Nance joins fight in Ukraine: ‘I am done talking’

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It looks like these are not real echolocation images, but a photo montage.
Apparently, the image of the cruiser from Wikipedia was used, rotated and passed through a special filter.
The name of the user who noted this is @OAlexanderDK

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In fact, Ukraine and Russia tried to negotiate among themselves. Have you read the text of the Minsk agreements?

How much money Russia sent to the military needs of the separatists in the Donbas, and what sources do you refer to?
For example, judging by information from the official website of the US Congress, America has been sponsoring the military economy of Ukraine for several years in the amount of more than $4 billion.

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Are you sure you know the origins of the conflict?
In late 2013, Ukrainian President Yanukovych suspended negotiations with the EU in favor of strengthening relations with Russia.
After that, mass protests began in Kyiv.
In February 2014, Yanukovych was ousted from the presidency.
In April 2014, the residents of Donetsk and Lugansk declared their independence.
In response, Acting President in Ukraine Aleksandr Turchynov announced the start of an "anti-terrorist operation" in eastern Ukraine.
You can read a brief background of the conflict, at least in the Britannica.