It's all time high of $33 was pure hype back in 2011 when it dropped down to $2.50.

Huh.. why do you think I'm 25, and have no experience? My profile used to say 18 about 6 months ago, and has never had my real age.


Yeah, that's not how things work. Sorry. I could be advocating legalizing drugs and prostitution, or advocating money laundering and tax evasion, but unless I'm actually involved in any way myself,  that's still just an opinion. The only thing they care about in my particular position is my job performance. I am not a representative or a face of the government in any way. That would be people two levels above me.


Hmm... nope. Nothing on there about evidence. All that page says is, "You done bad, so we'll take your stuff." It's at most a punishment or claim of the right to everything that was obtained as a result of the crime, and there's absolutely nothing there regarding forfeited items being evidence.
So, it's not evidence. It's stuff the government, and specifically the US government, now claims to own the right to, because they claim that the way the money was obtained was wrong. This despite the fact that the money did not belong to DRP himself, was in a global business with global customers, and belonging to people who either were not breaking the law, or were in countries where what they were buying was legal. US has an annoying knack for pretending that it's government laws apply to the entire world. How would you feel if you tried to buy some electronics from a business in China, and China seized your money, because, despite those electronics being legal in US, China declared them illegal for whatever reason, and decided the rest of the world, including you, should consider them to be illegal, too?
And even if that money were to disapear somehow, it still won't affect the trial, or any evidence, and will only make the FBI a bit poorer (and more pissed off).


What about people who claim to know the people who have been involved with bitcoin for a long time, and claim to know what kind of people they are, and what kind of interests or goals they have? And what if those people are actually fairly well known and established people in the community, who have, and are still, supporting bitcoin in a big way?


First, the people you claim are being "pushed out" are actually running some of the companies you listed (who may not be publicly making such claims, but have in private). Second, you forgot to mention SatoshiDice, Coinapult, and quite a few other businesses that actually helped launch bitcoin and get it to where it is now. Sure, they may seem like government-loving nice people, but trust me, they're not. Their non-radical public image is only maintained for the likes of you.



So... you have experience in physics and computers, you worked in air traffic control in some capacity, sued a bunch of spammers, and are making your wealth domain squatting? So... nothing regarding finance, economics, or business (well, a bit)? Mine is, I had a rather extensive education, if a bit of a crash course (over a few summers, 11am to 8pm daily) in physics and electro-mechanical engeneering, which I needed to help run my grandparent's MAGLEV company. I knew the subject well enough to be an English<>Russian translator at the 2000 International Maglev Conference in Lausanne, and to debate the topics with top researchers and professors there, to the point where people there simply assumed I had a doctorate in the stuff. I don't have any Comp Sci degrees, but I have been writing software since I was 13, was hired by McDonald's Corp in Baltimore as an IT manager and web/software developer, and as a business on the side, ran and managed a web and e-mail server for various web companies, including my family's MAGLEV thing, since 1997. I'm still running that MAGLEV business, which includes doing economic feasibility research all over the world, and establishing and maintaining contacts with various globally dispersed manufacturers, though I'm not really focusing on it as much as I should (I am building a proof-of-concept linear accelerator in my living room though). Oh, and I also have a bachelors in business finance, and a master's in global business and finance. And thanks to my stock, mutual fund, and bitcoin portfolio, and the small consulting and finance jobs I keep getting hired for, and all the trust I have built up over the years (I'm holding over $100,000 of other people's money in trust), I don't have to work at all, either. As I said, the only reason I'm still working where I am is for the cheap health insurance, and to give me some spending money so I can put off dipping into my investments. Actually, the only reason I worked here last year was as a favor to the department, because I was literally the only person left here who knew how to run things, and stayed on, despite earning half of what I could earn in the private sector, until I trained my replacement. Since then, they accused the guy I was training of being inadequate, without even consulting me, because some new person didn't like him or something (he was VERY good, actually), dumped a bunch of shit on me from someone else who was retiring and thus was not doing her job at all in her last month (never gave me the accounting info I needed, and shit rolled right up hill), and have cost me about $60k in lost investments. Frankly, there are two more finance people here who are hoping to quit, who are the only other people who know how to run the department, and I am just here waiting for them to leave, so I can leave at the same time, and have this entire department collapse.

You must be new here, because a ton of them really wish that was the case. As soon as you try to start a business, or even just deal with bitcoin in any significant way, you run into a ton of regulatory questions and issues, to the point that some of these people are actually leaving USA or actively blocking US customers from their sites, just so they can avoid dealing with those issues. Yes, right now we are all forced to interface with fiat, and submit to KYC/AML and all the other crap, but I'm pretty sure everyone who supports bitcoin wishes that won't be the case eventually.

Do you think that bitcoin should always be used in conjunction with fiat, and that bitcoin should be subject to AML/KYC and other financial regulations too?


Yep, you're new here. Those lunatics have supported bitcoin the most from the start, and are still it's biggest supporters (hint-hint, those lunatics include people pretty high up and well known in bitcoin businesses)


Businesses do want their finances and often inner workings to be anonymous, and customers want to be anonymous. Businesses also don't want to be forced to collect every little bit of information about their customers if they don't want to. And no one likes having to pay fees, taxes, or submit to costly and unneccesary regulatory requirements.


No, I think I know everything because I have high level degrees in finance, economics, and business, and have a ton of experience working in business finance, as well as a bit of experience running my own business, and also because I haave experience with virtual currencies and bitcoin. You think you know everything because, despite just recently discovering bitcoin, being as rightcheous as you are, believe you know better.


Ok, you claimed this three times now. Please explain to me how those bitcoins sitting in FBI computers are "evidence," or how they can be used to help prosecute DPR? If you can't, stop calling them "evidence."


My job is to count numbers and balance spreadsheets, not to talk politics or be a representative of whatever. Seriously, no one gives a crap what I think. Also, like I said, if I do lose it (and I do the very minimum required of me here), it won't bother me. I don't actually need the job here any more, and only keep it for the extra income and cheap health insurance.

Wait, list of SR users? I thought all personal data between buyers and sellers was exchanged through PGP, and only buyer information was reveiled to the seller so they knew where to ship? Did SR users post their personal info in the clear???

f something is without definition, then it is also without meaning. The great shlagrl-blagrl is all matter, energy, and everything all around us, and it loves us, but I can't define it other than it's just everything... Useless.

No need. Just find an example of a court case where seized money or things like cars and houses were presented in court as evidence of crime. I may be wrong, but that sounds ridiculous. At most, the prosecution might say, "We seized $10mil from suspect, which we suspected was drug money, and we have this other evidence to support that claim," but I don't think prosecutors have ever hauled millions of dollars into court to prove their point. Is stealing seized money from the FBI illegal? Of course! But I don't think they have a right to that money to begin with.


Luckily, my private conduct doesn't affect my job. If they do let me go for whatever reason (and I really hate my job here), it won't bother me. Though I suspect my department will collapse...  


Ironically, I think it's the other way around: things like government and FBI will become more and more irrelevant as Bitcoin and business becomes more and more anonymous, and government services beck,e easier to replace. The venture capitalist videos I've seen typically complain a lot about government and regulatory abuse, and can't wait to not have to interface with the fiat and regulatory system any more.

Did you read my post? The evidence is in the blockchain, not in the address balance. And you can't tamper with the blockchain.


So do car manufacturers, alcohol and beer brewers, pharmaceutical companies, cleaning product manufacturers, etc. What's your point?


I heard the person wasn't even real. But regardless, what does that have to do with whether the money owned by his customers is in the FBI's hands? And what does it have to do with his customers' money?


sure. But unlike stealing money, where the transaction is traceable, all you have to do to get Bitcoin out is steal the private key, and broadcast it from anywhere. Also, HAHAHAHAHA, when was the last time the FBI, or any government security agency, returned anything they seized? They themselves claimed that they will simply liquidate the money.


1, doubt it, as speech is not crime, and no one cares, and 2, again, I'm not advocating tampering with evidence. Do you seriously believe that if those bitcoins were moved elsewhere that DPR will go free due to a mistrial?  


Since I don't know what you look like, and don't know whom to look out for, could you please stay away from every Bitcoin event instead?

You do realize that the abolity to spend, or not having that money in their posession, does not in any way affect their ability to actually prosecute him, right? It's not like they have to bring big stacks of cash into the court room to show it as evidence. They can just point to the public blockchain, and show all the transactions leading in and out of the address in question. Just because they themselves can't spend the money doesn't matter.

That being said, I'd much rather have that money be spent by someone else other than the FBI. Both because, as you said, I work in government, and I understand that it will be either wasted, or worse, used for bad things, AND because I don't believe what DPR was doing with Silk Road was inherently wrong, and thus the FBI effectively stole money that didn't belong to them (it didn't belong to DPR, either, since that money was merchant, customer, and anyone who wanted to use the SR tumbler money).

$124,000 Prius, actually. I spent very close to 1,000 bitcoins, so it's fairly easy to track. Btw, after recent travels and renting out some other cars (like Chevy Sonic), the Prius really feels like a luxury car :9

Trade on #bitcoin-otc, set up an OTC account, and post lots in the forums. Basically, the two components of building up trust are establishing relationships (through trading and discussions here), and time (which you can't really get around). The longer you are on here talking and letting people learn about you, the more developed your trust and reputation (whether that's a good or a bad reputation). Meet some people, make some friends, and establish some networks. Also LinkedIn can help somewhat.

Heard at Atlanta conference this past weekend:

Uh... wait... are you saying that money is currently being stored in a bitcoin wallet, and not in a bitcoin blockchain? 

I think you may be giving the FBI too much credit. They may just have downloaded Bitcoin-QT, didn't bother to password protect it, and stored the coins there. Or just opened a Blockchain.info wallet account. I somehow doubt they know or understand offline wallets and paper backups and such.
Then again, maybe I just have a very low opinion of the FBI.

I think the coins should be stolen, but that it should be done using the good'ol method of simply stealing the private keys for that wallet. That may involve some more difficult work of actually hacking FBI's computers to find out where their keys are stored at. Miners and futzing with the blockchain should definitely be left out of it.

Not directly answering the question, but I used bitaddress.org to generate addresses, created a few paper backups, imported those addresses into Mycelium, and use that.
From what I've seen, Mycelium, only uses the addresses it has set up, unless you create new ones, in which case you should back up the new ones.

Heading to Do Luwte. Be there in 5

That's not enough energy to make a leap

Less than 8. Moe not coming. Three here, plus you, plus maybe two more joining.

How about
De Luwte on Leliegratch 26 for some Dutch food?
http://goo.gl/maps/eDWo4

Or should we just meet at Boca at 8, and go walking to look for a place at 8:30?

Edit: since it's so late, let's meet at Boca and go from there.

I'll try to be there at 8, but can't make reservations.