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I had a look over the scheme too, and if my understanding is correct the primary advantage is that it's provably fair even if the person doesn't set their own client seed. The real problem is that complexity is the enemy, and for someone to independently verify your games is a lot of work, something that I'd be surprised to see anyone do for a while =)
If you really care about that particular use case, why don't you use the Just-Dice scheme and *require* people to set their own client seed before placing any bets? Now you have an industry standard scheme, that well understood, tested and has lots of independent implementations while trying to protect people who don't set the client seed.
(Or what I'd do, is set the default client-seed client-side using window.crypto, and promising that I will always do that, so if there ever is an instance of me setting it server-side that can be used as proof of cheating)
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Gave you the most profit: bitdice.me (through a combination of being stupid and investing)
Has good user interface: fastbets.io
One you visit most often: bustabit (it's my baby)
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Had a lot of fun playing rocket pot, well done. Took ma a while before I got it, but it's really quite a good little game! A few people have said it before, but it's worth repeating. It's fantastic seeing someone building new games like this. I wish you guys the best of luck.
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I'm happy to announce we've opened up our slack channel. You can enter your email here: https://slack.moneypot.com/ which will send you an invite to join us. It's primarily designed for developers to chat with us, as the combination of email and skype have proven pretty hard to work with. |
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did you ever think to make a doge, ltc or some like altcoin for betting ?
It's something that's definitely been requested a lot, but it's really hard to justify the complexity that would be associated with multiple currencies (in terms of our code, the api, and user experience). |
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Wow, 98.8 thousand bitcoin wagered! We're rapidly closing in on that magical 100k!
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I'd definitely purchase a few tickets, but I'd want to see it completely on-chain, fully provably fair, and include the scripts to reproduce the drawings. And to believe you're going to pay, I think more than just have the money you'd have to escrow the jackpot in say 2-out-3 multisig. (Where you could hold one, and two very trusted people from the bitcoin community each hold one each)
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In fact, I was also recently unable to use BBets' chat whatsoever, whereas other apps' chat worked fine - this is highly suspicious, how I announce my success a few days ago in here & all of a sudden, balance theft attacks, unable to chat - And when you consider for a moment who has the most access to specifically BBets' app code & how best to exploit it..?? Who's the person in charge of building the site technically..? It pains me to make this allegation, but the evidence is getting circumspect.. ;/ Think about it..
That's actually very interesting that you couldn't use the chat, as the issue betterbets had were related to XSS on the chat. It's possible you were specifically targeted with some code which broke the chat for you. Also the attack is with 100% certainty not the betterbets developers. Faking a hack, and immediately offering to recompensate the money isn't very rational. If they wanted to cheat you, what they'd have done is just made you spend your entire balance on big bets till you had 0 money, collecting their commissions (and then if you complained, just called you a sore loser). But they didn't do this, and I fully believe they're in this for the long haul and just having some growing pains. Not unlike any other site =) |
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Before the round the server would generate a server secret and publish the hash of the server secret. All players generate a client secret. When a player clicks on place bet, he submits his secret to the server. When the next round starts all submitted client secrets are concatenated with the server secret and used to compute the crash multiplier.
What am I missing?
There's a few flaws in that scheme, namely if the server and one of the (many) clients are conspiring they can totally control the outcome. And even if the server isn't controlling one of the clients, if it selectively dropped the connection of one of them, it could radically change the outcome as well. |
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how can anyone prove it :O? i still dont understand it how to prove that its pre-determined when it will crush?
explain a bit better for me xD
regards.
-Katerniko1
Unfortunately, I don't think I can. The original post is my best attempt, but if you work through the original post with someone who knows the cryptographic primitives, it should make sense. =) |
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i dont understand what exactly are you trying to do here :O. your saying that there is possibility to cheat in bustabit??? im a bit confused here  regards. -Katerniko1 The point of this thread, is to prove that the game is fair. Or more specifically, the game sequence has been pre-determined and from a fair distribution, and can not be influenced by any players actions =) |
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And as one additional note, MoneyPot API does provide the ability to bribe the investors to accept a bet they otherwise.
Let's say the app wants a user to attempt to win 1% of the house bankroll, with a house edge of 0.1% (e.g. in lucky hour). The app can basically pay investors the absolutely minimum required to make it make economic sense (satisfy the kelly).
This is configurable with the "max_subsidy" argument
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Right now we are allowed a max payout of 1.5% (per Moneypot's investment bankroll) per single bet. So that would mean you can win 219411048.21 (satoshis)BTC or to simplify: 2.19 BTC per bet. So to answer your question, it is based on max payout not max bet.
Just to avoid confusion, the restrictions are based on max profit. For a dice-style bet, the investors will only allow you to attempt to take the same percent of the bankroll as the house edge. The limit per app is based on RHavar's discretion for us he agreed to 1.5% but this is something that could go up or down as our site matures. I'm not quite sure where this came from. MoneyPot has a function that applies the generalized kelly criterion to all bets coming in, which answers a simple question: "Is it economically rational to accept this bet?", if the answer is yes, it'll accept it. If the answer is no, it'll reject it. |
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So! What's the MaxWin & MaxBet sizes allowed ,How likely is it these limits will change again
Moneypot is using kelly criterion for the bet amount which you can find at the FAQ or you can read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterionWe use the generalized kelly criterion, to determine if a bet is acceptable or not. For a given bet, the Kelly criterion tells us how much of our bankroll we should risk. We will only ever risk less than the kelly suggests, and never more. Im not much of a math guy but Ryan mentioned one time that it will be depending on the bankroll (not sure if it is at plinkopot chatroom ) So basically it will be using this formula The limit for this will depends on the bankroll and the bankroll is floating around ~146 BTC https://www.moneypot.com/investment then the max win for the site would be ~1.46 BTCP.S : not sure if this differ depending on each sites or no P.S 2 : Congratulations for breaking the Hall of Fame  Great reply btw. And no, it doesn't differ per site. From investors perspective they don't care where the bet comes from, if it makes economic sense they will accept it regardless of origin. And if it doesn't make economic sense, they'll reject it, regardless of origin =) |
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As for Ryan ; This important Max Bet/Max Win data, if it happens to not depend on the casino but rather on MoneyPot itself, is not to be found anywhere in MP's FAQ, App Management section, nor thread OP neither.
It's basically up to the app. For a dice-style bet, the max profit per bet is: bet_house_edge * bankroll. Games like dustdice control this. As a casino controls the house edge, they also control the max profit per bet (and can put additional limits if they want). So for instance, during BetterBets happy hours the max profit per roll will be ~0.15 BTC (0.1% of our 150 BTC bankroll), and during normal play, it will be ~1.5 BTC (1% of our 150 BTC bankroll). And btw, the newly-input'd memo about "Reminder : This is the amount of your money that this app can access. Until you withdraw this balance into your Moneypot wallet or disable this app, it's best to consider this balance in the posssession of the app." -> has a spelling typo in 'possession', & there was also another typo I found somewhere else in MP but just can't recall where it was now, sorry.
Thanks, noted. So! What's the MaxWin & MaxBet sizes allowed ; Has this changed since May 19 launch ; How likely is it these limits will change again ; Is this a limit set per-app or for all MoneyPot's casinos ;
It hasn't changed on the MP side at all Is it frowned upon to autobot on multiple MoneyPot Account simultaneously running on multiple browsers and/or PC's entirely (obviously to loop around the Max Bet & Max Win limits during bad martingale'd AutoBet streaks, among other things ;p ;p) ..?? Thanks Bjorn/Lobos/Ryan!
It'd be better if you didn't, but you're not going to get banned for it |
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moneypot used to be one of my favorite sites but after its become bustabit I dont want to play there, even though thing is same is it just me or all ?
I think that was a pretty common reaction, it definitely takes a while to get used to the new name. However, I think most players got used to it and we've been able to attract more players than ever with some of the improvements =) PM your bustabit username, and I'll send you a tip so you can give it another try =) |
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Fast turnaround, well done! =)
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There seems to be a problem with the chat server(?)
Chat is down from Plinkopot to BCS to MiniDice
You're right, sorry. Pushed a fix out =) Thanks for the heads up |
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Unfortunately, as a precaution I've had to temporarily disable BetterBet's API access to MoneyPot. It should be back in no time. All funds are still withdrawable and usable, so the impact should be pretty minimal. When investigating a user's missing funds on this site, I did a bit of security testing and found a minor XSS attack on betterbets, which could be used to tip users.
Although this isn't a problem or flaw in MoneyPot, I realize I have done a poor job at explaining the trust boundary so I have taken the step of personally refunded everyone (direct into their main MP account) anyone I believe affected. If you were affected, and not credited please contact me directly using the MoneyPot.com support system.
I'll work with betterbets to fix this little issue and get the rolls happening again as soon as possible!
And as we speak, I'm improving our website and language to be clearer about issues like this.
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