Because they have never heard of a temp agency...lol

Hahaha, this ought to be good, classing all FPGA later orders as first in line for ASIC.

This all could have been averted if the community just told BFL to F off and that no one would order until the WHOLE thing was spelled out.

Of course we know someone would have just snuck in, but it would have been cool to see a community truly come together beyond greed.

Oh well, I really hope it all works itself out.

The problem in this whole thread is that no one knows what the hell will happen because of the company everyone is dealing with. THAT is the truth whether people want to hear it or not.

200 emails are too much to deal with based on hundreds of thousands of dollars in orders?

I'd love that f'in problem in my business. Hi, yes temp agency, please send me ten people at $20 per hour for a few weeks please.

I answer, in detail, at least 20-30 emails per day myself in my company, plus another 20-30 personal emails. This doesn't take me more than a couple hours AT MOST.

Jesus, when are people going to at least DEMAND the customer service they deserve? Has there ever been anything like this where people are willing to throw thousands at an unproven company with a terrible track record just to make a few bucks?

I think that's called gambling, which of course is what everyone is and has been doing with BFL.

Look at the current mini rig trap for example. 15K product which will be obsoleted by the same company you purchased it from in 3 months and you STILL don't even have the damn thing yet.

They have already had your 15k for how long? 3 months at least? You don't think you funded their ASIC, which is in turn going to bite you in the ass unless you give them another 15K to hold onto for three months?

WOW, no wonder people called me crazy in my thread about how ASIC is not the same as previous gen mining technologies. Yet I am now seeing the same arguments I made being used by MANY BFL customers in this and other ASIC related threads.

Free Market, yep, that's the answer, even without nearly ANY information to make an informed purchase...Brilliant.

I sincerely hope this all works out for some of you, best case, many of you. Unfortunately, if you look at this objectively, a train wreck is on the horizon.

I don't care about mining anymore, I've made that personal choice, but I DO care about the future of bitcoin and would LOVE to see a petahash network we can all work off to increase adoption.

Mining is just the birthing phase for now folks, but if the baby is born with two heads...

There are plenty of people here already who know so much about this technology. I have been privately talking to a few which typically implies there are many more, probably A LOT more including lurkers.

We're starting to talk about a nearly 70 million dollar economy now. I know this is probably less than a day's overnight lending interest for a large banking institution, but it IS significant.

It is significant enough beyond the monetary value(hahahaha speaking like USD has value) that I believe the community should galvanize around what we believe to be a likely endgame for the mining piece of bitcoin.

Which is we all think about it, is simply the birth of this whole idea. Once all the coins have been born, then life really starts.

I just want to see a healthy baby be born.

No I don't undervolt because the ones I have don't seem to like it.(diamond brand)

Also, I guess I'm mixing two things, I get 2.7 including mbo, cpu, etc.

So this is my base set-up

MSI 890FXA-GD70
sempron 140
2gb cheap ram
1250 watt seasonic gold
solid state or notebook hard drives
windows 7 pro 64bit
catalyst 11.12 driver
sdk 2.1
cgminer
two scythe ultra kaze fans blowing air through the cards from behind
Of course, all unnecessary crap turned off in bios, hd audio, usb 3.0, etc.
Completely homemade open air case, basically motherboard trays extracted from old cases mounted on particle board.

Cards all at 800/300, stock voltage 1.05, temps around 70c give or take.

This gets me about 720 mh/s per card for about 2.1 Gh/s on average and 760 watts at the wall with a kill-a-watt

So that's about 2.76 MH/W total for each rig.

I thought 7970 was the best at approx 3 mh/w give or take.

I get 2.7 mh/w with my 5970 machines.

What do these get on average ?

Unbelieveable how much crap guys like Con have to go through to provide great free software and they get like what , 50 bucks in BTC ? lol

While profiteering douchebags like BFL and their cult of minions make a killing.

Anyone want to send ckolivas 50 BTC in advance for the next cgminer release? It will be available in 6 months, he promises <wink>

BTW, LUKE-JR =  fail

For the last ten or so months I have been following BTC it seems you are always in the middle of some type of shit storm. Wake up buddy. When you're always involved, the problem is likely YOU.

Kano and others have helped countless people here for free from everything including linux installs, etc.

You my friend just bitch and moan.

For the record, I don't know Kano or Con from Adam and what I posted is no representation of them in any way. Although you should all send Ckolivas a final BTC donation for his cgminer work and I guess Kano, although I'm not sure how their relationship works in this whole thing.

No one will need to work on ASIC so they deserve it for the GPU mining period.

Yeah I'm more interested in their electrical efficiency, MH/W.

I can see the dollar value and also realize they are nice mid level gaming cards, so my thought was I might mine them until the ASIC pyramid scheme hits and then build and sell some budget gaming PC's.

Thanks.

How much power does a 5830 pull with an average overclock at stock voltage and down clocked memory ?

Also, do these undervolt well ? I might be interested in a local pick up for all of them if I can get some accurate info on the above questions.

Just a tip, but your prices are too high. If You really want to unload these you're going to need to drop them.

Everyone wants in on the BFL pyramid scheme.

It's laughable that anybody gives a shit what BFL does at this point and is going to "punish" them if they don't do this or that.

The mining community has spoken on this issue and their opinion is clear. All they want is to get their unit as quickly as possible and try to be as close to the top of this ASIC pyramid scheme as possible. They don't give a shit about bitcoin.

I really wish I knew jack about these ASICS. I swear to god there has to be a way to just f'in get this done. There are about ten different business models we could use that would be a win for everyone involved as opposed to just one monopolistic player like we have now.

If the community could come together and do this ASIC thing right, we could have a petahash going in no time and everyone could get a reasonable profit out of it.

Put it all on P2Pool and boom, mining is all set and we can all just focus on bitcoin adoption.

Is there really enough public work to even warrant the demand? Seems people are not going to get more than an hour or two of public work at best if there is really so many people waiting to sign up.

Hey its not my call and I'm happy with what I get, but I hope this means Pirate has a few tricks up his sleeve (please start getting public work from rendering farms, video game companies, researchers, etc.) I love playing with my GPU's and really don't want to have to get rid of all of them because of those BFL knuckleheads.

Isn't that something a legitimate and ethical business would do considering the community is investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into their products ?

Are they shipping jalapenos first then asic singles and then 1 TH ? or all at the same time? Who gets them first, first money in ? and how many will they ship? is the first 1 Th unit going to be shipped and then the second one two weeks later? a month later? if so this is a real screw job to everyone else.

Why isn't the community demanding these answers before plopping down thousands of dollars in interest free loans? Is everyone really that greedy?

So much for an open source, co-operative, decentralized digital currency. This is looking more and more like a fiat pyramid scheme every day.

What a damn shame.

Unfortunately, too many members of the community have allowed greed to be their primary motivating force while hiding behind the concept of "protecting the network" which is a crock of shit. Last time I checked, no one has attempted a 51% attack and an army of people with FPGA's could very easily sustain the network over the long haul.

Unfortunately we have this great company in enterpoint coming into the market and BFL has once again used their unethical business practices to essentially halt the purchase of FPGA's while the lemmings line up once again to give these thieves no interest loans to fund their ASIC project.

Greed is such a bitch and it's going to destroy bitcoin before it has a chance to gain any real traction if people are going to flock to vendors like BFL.

This type of behavior is exactly what goes on in the central banking world that bitcoin was designed to help people gain freedom from, but once people start seeing those dollar signs, ethics and morals dissolve rapidly.

BFL has turned mining into the worst type of pyramid scheme and those who worship BFL are blindly following like crazed scientologists.

I can't believe people are willing to give a company like this upfront cash and these clowns can't even clearly articulate their buy back program until the community essentially forced them to do so.

I'd be bankrupt in a week and have my medical license taken away if I pulled half the stunts they have pulled.

I just wish there was a way to re-purpose or find some resale value for these FPGA's because I would buy dozens if that were the case.

Okay, sorry, rant over.

There are many ways to do this and it needs to be pursued. The biggest question/ hurdle seems to be how quickly can we develop s competitive ASIC product before BFL floods the market.

I personally don't believe they have any shot at fulfilling these orders in any quantitiy by december 2012 based on their previous track record. Also, if they had this legit VC funding behind them, why the hell do they need full pre-orders instead of simply deposits to help them measure demand.

Once again the bitcoin mining community is so obsessed with profit they are eager to fund someone's project interest free and tie up their funds for months on end. How much more could be done with this money if it were spent or utilized to fund bitcoin related business and services?

Are the people in this community just so ignorant about standard business practices that they can't see this is a long con ?

I like a combo co-operative mining effort that everyone can benefit from and also allows co-op members to buy discounted equipment as well. i could see the first large units being used to simply mine on behalf of the co-op members to repay the initial investment which would then allow for reasonable sale prices to co-op members moving forward.

If we could get 4-5 1 TH up and running before any of the BFL units hit the market we could get the initial dev cost back in no time and then be able to sell cheap units to co-op members and effectively put BFL out of business or at least force them to start acting as an ethical business in order to stay in this market.

I could raise probably $50,000 toward this project if someone could show me a way that we could get a custom ASIC by December 1st. I believe that would be AT LEAST one month before BFL could deliver any of their units, save maybe those coffee warmers.

I think we could have raised over 1 million if we had put this together before BFL announced their pre-orders, but don't think for a second they didn't do that as part of their plan to lock up the community's money in order to kill any project like this.'

Once they saw companies like enterpoint entering the game they knew they had to craft a plan to stall FPGA orders and screw every competitor over.

Well I'm doing more research specific to the state of missouri and am awaiting a response form the better business bureau. I have also contacted an attorney who specializes in this type of law to ascertain the legality of such practices. Kickstarter projects differ from what BFL is doing as far as I can tell.

I'll know for sure shortly depending on the response rate of the state of missouri and the attorney general's office, etc.

Maybe everyone else is fine with BFL's business practices, but I smell a rat here. If I'm wrong, well no harm done and everyone can carry on with their no interest loans. If I'm right then maybe they will be forced to engage in better business practices which should benefit everyone.

I'm baffled as to how people can believe this company is "on the level" when it took a demand from the community to get a simple clarification on their announced trade in policy.

You can't tell me they didn't already know how they planned on handling trade-ins before they made the announcement.

If so, then this is yet another example of a reckless announcement designed to hamper their competition and stall orders from competing vendors.

Once again, I am NOT anti ASIC, I'm anti poor business practices and this community and all consumers deserve better.

Yeah don't support an open source community project so we can profit more.

I really thought inaba and gigavips were some solid supporters of this bitcoin project, but you're both looking like nothing more than pure profiteers.

No one begrudges you guys an opportunity to make money on your investment, but you can't ignore the fact that both of you are shamelessly supporting a company with unethical and illegal business practices.

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.

It is also illegal for them to not allow you to ask for e refund if you choose to do so. A small deposit which is non-refundable is perfectly legal, full payment is NOT within the law.

Both of you also have an "insider" relationship with BFL which is obvious from how quickly you both get responses, etc.

I'm sure you'll both be receiving your 1 TH rigs within the first 4-5 units shipped as well.

Good luck, but remember you might be mining worthless coins if this type of pyramid scheme shit becomes the norm for bitcoin vendors.

How the heck do I cancel a share purchase order? I was trying to show someone what it would look like to purchase shares and how much it would cost and then clicked submit order or whatever assuming I could then just immediately cancel.

It's asking for payment and of course I didn't send any coins for payment, but the order is sitting there pending and I would like to just completely get rid of the transaction.

As long as I don't send any coins to the generated payment address I won't get charged correct?

I also hope it won't take money from my public mining profit either.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

If You can get this done by November 1st i still think you will beat BFL by at least a month given their previous track record.