I started a thread on a relatively small gamers development forum asking them to consider accepting bitcoin purchases for their newest game I am really excited about. It really opened my eyes how people will fight tooth and nail to just discredit Bitcoin, and most of these thoughts seem to be because of articles they had read by authors who do not understand bitcoin at all. If you would like to see how the 100+ responses in under an hour unfolds check hereI am not asking anyone to register and chime in about why you would purchase a game with bitcoin, but if you would like to go for it! Favorite line of them all: Ever dollar you put into your paypal and such actually exists. You could put that paypal money into a bank account and withdraw real legal tender, that you could then take to the treasury and exchange for the gold that its backed by if you wish. |
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I just came up with a idea to solve this problem.
I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC. There you that is the solution. Tell me what you think.
How will VMC purchase AMC? Will it buy back all the shares of AMC? But if you did create a VMC offering, and then unite VMC with AMC under one roof, then yes this is exactly what we are all looking for. Again, it is just really important for current shareholders and potential investors like myself to see these two companies merged into one. Yes, VMC would start purchasing AMC shares until it has all of them. There is no need for this.
Here a simple way to do it with one announcement:
1. VMC has been shutdown
2. AMC will now be doing the mining AND sales of chips/hardware itselfDone!  Note: I know that is simplistic, but really, there is no need to complicate matters, keep them simple on purpose. Now, in the real world, you may have signed some documentation with eASIC etc ... but you can re-sign them as AMC. That will not work! I am sorry. 
Why Not? Please explain in detail.Ken is making this way too complicated for no reason. Just kill VMC - AMC is now AMCVMC. No more silly percentages of VMC profits, no more doubt. Ken, why don't you try to reach out to Friedcat and have a conversation. Seems like he welcomes competition. RE: Ken asking about fair salary Does anyone know how Friedcat gets his "cut/salary?" in his business model? I assume he holds shares himself and that is how he gets paid. Great work tonight guys! I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be. While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC? Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure. This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way. Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:
Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.
Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming. Great job guys!
I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter. +1 if this merger happens nice and fairly (i dont like how people could "game" the situation by buying "cheap" shares, but I guess they taking risk that a merge will never happen by doing this so who knows... on the flip side, what if AMC share price exceeds 0.0025 by some miracle and now you won't get a true 1:1 value Everyone is getting really excited over nothing of substance. Please hold out until you see real evidence and get the contractual certainty you need before taking this seriously. It's not smart to rush back into this after a few assurances made on a forum. They won't stand up in court. You need a contract and evidence and until that materialises you are throwing good money after bad.
How do any of you know this isn't a ploy to get more money flooding into AMC before the big dissapearing act? The answer is you don't.
A few more days hyping this 'new development' up could net Mr Slaughter a dream-sized wad of cash.
And even forgetting the scam line - if this is a genuine company how do you know they are competant enough to follow through? What happens 3months down the line when they can't deliver and shares nose dive back to 0.0005 or lower? There is only one way to invest in any company and that is based on facts, evidence and finally projections of profit. You only have the last one of these three right now = sit on your hands.
+1 This could turn out similar to the infamous "news" hyped last week. If you want to invest in success you need to invest in talent. I don't see any here.
Cool. Still planning to stick around or are you going to leave us to it? If you think this situation has progressed over the past few days (it has certainly changed) then it is thanks to doubters like me not the sycophants. If me and Mega had not persisted with this you would still be in the VMC/AMC mess with no guarantees over rights and ownership. Now Ken from what I've read has said he's looking at solutions. The doubters have made him say that. Whether that is a genuine statement IS YET TO BE KNOWN. What I'm saying basically is you need to question everything in this setup. When you get answers you then question them too. And finally if you want to invest - you do it ONCE YOU HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE. We are still at the question and answer stage and like I said there is still no evidence that this isn't going to end very badly. In any serious investors mind nothing has changed. It's only fools buying AMC right now and if they double or more their money here then on the next investment they will loose it - because they don't know how to ask the right questions. You hear that? It's the sound of no one caring. I think a majority of us who have a stake in this company, put in no more than we were willing to lose. Now, we are working to try to get this company in a position where we will hopefully see some decent ROI at some point. Now, if you have nothing else to add, please run along sweet child. SoylentCreek you need to take a step back and put aside what i assume is hatred of steveioio and understand he is ENTIRELY correct. If the "trolls" (these people were never trolling imo but raising valid concerns that you and others just did not like to hear) did not raise these questions there in deed would have never been ANY discussion about a merge. Guys, just ignore the troll! Please do not let this thread derail back into the shit pile it has been over the last few days.
Seriously...? Please look up the term Troll. This is trollling: If someone with as few qualifications as Ken can deliver ASICs, how many others will have custom chips available?
 You're back Entropy? I assumed after you deleted your earlier spam posts on this thread, you had gone for good. You can't pretend it never happened, plenty of people read them and remember your FUD.  Next up: Entropy sees the light, starts pumping AMC to increase the value of his holdings  . ___________ Keep in mind, I still have over 10 pages to read through so i may have not read any changes yet. EDIT: finished, questions still stand. |
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Verry hight pression to reach 100$ but no one have enough money i just could reach 100$ in seconds but i wile to watch how the Rome burn You have an inflated ego my friend. Have you taken a look at your post history? It really gives a good overview on your personality. Why you say this, ive just destroy 15k bid wall and you call me inflated. Also i will destroy $88 wall and go to bed Sign a message to an account with over 20k in it and prove your epeen size. Or, pm me an exact time and dump them on gox so I can get coins @ price that matches bitstamp...then ill believe you. |
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Verry hight pression to reach 100$ but no one have enough money i just could reach 100$ in seconds but i wile to watch how the Rome burn You have an inflated ego my friend. Have you taken a look at your post history? It really gives a good overview on your personality. |
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Everyone has been asking the same questions over and over for the last several days, I dont know why but Ken decides to not answer any of the questions and even wants to have power to manipulate the thread
There was a point brought by DaT stating that if Ken did in fact have the money to purchase all required devices / R&D why is he raising more capital, there should not be a need to have walls of 5 million and 1.6 million if Ken already had all the money to purchase everything,
frankly unless you bought in at .0025 there isnt any reason to hold AMC shares til Ken can answer clearly everything directly and prove that he does in fact have the NDA with eAsic, to many questions and not enough answers
I already have the power, however I do not use it, because I believe in free speech. However some users of the thread were complaining about all the trash talk, so I decided to do a poll. Just doing the poll caused some users of the thread to delete some of their post and clean up the thread some. I have only removed two post in this thread due to explicit profanity being used. More responses to pointless questions when there is a mound of extremely legitimate and pressing questions to be answered. How's that FAQ coming along Ken? |
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A lot of this stuff has been addressed.
Nonsense - none of it has been addressed. I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.
Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy. Dunno why you refuse to accept lots has been covered. It has been - go back and review this thread if you can hack through the noise Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact. Once again lolstate, you make claims that have no substance. NONE of these have been addressed by Ken at all. |
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Things that need to be answered directly from Ken. The address is posted on the btct.co asset details page. Office Address:
Active Mining Corporation
95 Wilton Road
Suite 3
London
SW1V 1BZ
United Kingdom
Fax: +44 (0)20 3004 1756
 umm... lol? Just a little research shows that this address and specifically 'Suite 3' was used circa 2007 by Italian money launderers and scam artists some of who have been jailed for a multi-million pound internet fraud. http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/02/422284.html?c=onA link on that page shows the 'Suite 3' address is infamous in the arena of London-based scam companies (currently still registered as well as historic) many many of which have been set up claiming 'Suite 3' as their 'office'. Apparently there is probably no office or suite at the property just a seemingly very 'accommodating' Mail hosting operation. http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/wsr-csr-corporation-worldwide-england-greater-london-c142076.htmlWhat does this prove? Well it proves that AMC are pretending they have a London office that is infact a mailbox. It also proves AMC are using the exactly the same distancing and 'keeping anonymous' techniques that scam artists successfully use. Anything else? I have a question - Should a 25mill dollar business be using an anonymous mailbox as used by convicted scammers, or should they have a bit more transparency?
I don't like this whole VMC/AMC structure. Why are we risking everything to fund VMC's hardware project? Wouldn't it be better for VMC/AMC to be one entity and manufacture hardware and mine just like ASICMINER? I've been reading this thread since day 1 and there is so much drama, confusion and lack of transparency. Why can't we just keep it simple? Wouldn't it make more sense to have VMC/AMC operate under one roof. AMC can manufacture hardware and mine. AMC can use the hardware to mine or sell it if it will generate additional income on the side just like ASICMINER. With the mining revenue and hardware sales it will to back to the shareholders in dividends. The 20m in growth and expansion fund will then be used to continue manufacturing and selling more hardware. If more shares need to be released to raise funds for more growth and expansion then those shares can be released at the market price at that time. What do you guys think? Isn't this more easier to work with? Then AMC will be able to take in profits from mining and hardware sales and the investors will be happy and it will give the company more value.
I 100% agree with this. The most worrying aspect of the whole setup, is why does VMC, and ultimately Ken, benefit 90% from hardware sales that AMC (read, US) invested in and funded. I think if Ken were to change this aspect, it would greatly improve the investment in AMC for everyone, and new investors would come onboard instead of being worried about this strange aspect. Do what ASICMINER is doing ... use the funds ... create the hardware ... use it to build a mining aspect, and sell the rest of the hardware. THAT, makes sense. And further, if Ken did do this, he shouldn't feel like he is backing down or will be looked upon badly, quite the opposite! It would add credibility for listening to shareholders and shows that he is truly looking after the shareholders interests. Which is his number 1 duty. Can we get a response to this Ken? This would really give investors more confidence and transparency to what they are investing into. Possible investors would be less confused as well. ASICMINER has a good plan and business model and it works. Would it be possible for Ken to re-write the original contract and get rid of a lot of wacky text that works only in his & VMC's favor? If this happened and there would be no more price manipulation and also dilution of shares.
I would want the cap set at a lower amount of shares. 40m sounds reasonable where 50% of the revenue goes back into grow and expansion and 50% goes back in dividends to shareholders. New shares that have yet to be released should be released at the market value at the time of the release. VMC/AMC should keep things simple like ASICMINER by mining and manufacturing hardware. This way investors are happy because they are investing into 100% of the business without us funding Ken's side project (VMC). Also i think this will eliminate all the heat being put on Ken and scaring away new investors. Sound reasonable guys?
I do however still consider there to be a vast amount of issues that need to be addressed before I can call AMC anything else then a "pretty damn close to a complete scam" based on a lot of the things brought up here. Starting with but not exclusively related to:
- pricing structure and expected profit margin
- ownership structure
- share structure
- ownership structure relating to profit and risk sharing related to VMC'S/AMC and Ken.
- listing practices and total share amount, listing time and dividend placement
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Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.
I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam. lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks! |
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Bitcoinstore, TAT, Swede, and everyone else who thinks AMC is going down or is overpriced why won't any of you sell me call options? If you don't like the terms of mine I'm letting you make counter offers. I think your failure to put money behind your posts speaks louder than anything you have to say at this point.
I have 81 on BTCT explain how to do this and ill do it. |
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DONT REPLY
 ^ you |
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We need an AMC blog or something like that, because the FUD here is just insane. Even when I try to answer questions being raised, it'll be lost on all that gets thrown around.
The questions about the number of shares have been asked and answered over and over again, simply because they get lost in here.
What the HELL are you talking about? Everything is just fine here - move on. Vbs is just starting to get tired of his own fanboyism damage control. He attempts to answer legitimate questions with no substance other than "you'll get reimbursed later, don't worry about it - RDE RDE RDE!!" |
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I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.
'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares? Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, ..... Out of frustration due to what? That people wised up to the ridiculous inflated IPO price? |
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I'm curious, when do people think the undercutting will stop and more importantly why?
Still, the good news to take is that a sizable portion of the released 2 million have been eaten into and its only been a couple of days. Lets just hope the momentum can continue...
It would be helpful if Bitcoin wouldn't tank right now. I think AMC will remain fairly stable for the next few weeks but the BTC/$ course might still drop, so there's no reason to invest. Here's a thought...Bitcoin is going down because bitcoin is flooding into AMC which is being dumped on the market for cash. Just a thought... Delusional... |
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TLDR; Batch3 have nothing to do with chips sales, so no worries.
Thx for clearing that up |
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Quick question are batches 1-5 considered Avalon Batch #3 i.e. the one everyone is getting all riled up about?
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I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?" |
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There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!
I'm all ears. What are your precise objections? Precise? Oh well how about:
100 Fast-Hash-80's** @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)
We are on schedule to receive 62 of these machine by the end of August. We have 20,000 chips on order from Avalon for these machines. Now, I think you are a competitor just trying to spread FUD about AMC, I have looked at some of your post and you seem to be tied to KnC as your forum name suggest "TheSwede75". You mean because there is "swede" in its username? So he should be related to KnC? They must even be cousin! OMG I cannot believe you said something like this. EDIT: Anyway, you answered about delivery date, while he was speaking about prices. He's just trying to do damage control. Notice how he only addressed one of his concerns while the others mentioned are of much more importance. AMC = The new Facebook IPO? |
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There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!
I'm all ears. What are your precise objections? This guy on reddit raised some valid objections: AMC is ABSOLUTELY not worth the .0025 / share that it is going for right now. All of the increase since its original .008 price is based on this news that they have hardware coming out in the future that is on par with what others are offering.
Furthermore and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the company that is listed, AMC, will only receive a VERY SMALL percentage of profits from the sale of this hardware because it is some other company, VMC, that will actually be selling it. Basically what happened is that this one man, "Kenneth Slaughter", owns both AMC and VMC. KSlaughter used funds raised from his selling of AMC shares to fund development of hardware that VMC will sell. As a shareholder of AMC, you will only see 10% of the profits made from VMC even though you have wholly funded VMC's R&D.
Imagine in an alternate universe where ASICminer was instead two companies, say ASIC-1 and ASIC-2, where both are owned by friedcat. ASIC-1 mines for bitcoins while ASIC-2 produces hardware. However, friedcat only puts ASIC-1 on the market. When friedcat has his IPO, he will use the raised funds to produce hardware using ASIC-2. The shareholders will only see value of 10% of hardware sales and then the mining revenue, even though they are funding the entire operation. This alternate universe is essentially what you have with Kenneth Slaughter and AMC/VMC.
Other points of concern include that the dividends per share will be worth less than half of the % they currently receive by April of 2014 because in the written in the contract is the clause that allows KSlaughter to increase the amount of shares receiving dividends from the current 40,000,000 to the full 100,000,000 at that time.
Additionally, the contract allows KSlaughter to continuously undersell the current market price all the way down to .008 BTC/Share
This is not to say that AMC does not have value, but please be aware that any hardware "breakthroughs" should not have a 200% effect on share price.
Edit: Personally, I would buy in if prices fell to somewhere around .012 BTC/Share So his concerns are to do with what has been clearly stipulated by AMC from the outset? If you don't like the setup and conditions don't invest but it's a bit ludicrous to be telling people they are not getting a good deal when the deal is clear for all to see. Can't these people read? Unfortunately no, people don't take the time to read. Not all of this information is in a concise and centrally located place. Prior to the announcement there were pages upon pages of hype. Do you have a problem with someone providing a general summary of whats going on and allowing others to come to their own conclusion? |
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