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It is very clear to me what is happening and why it is bad for BTC. Everyone around here is wearing green colored glasses. We cant all get rich, markets dont work like that. This time is not different!! It is never different.
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isn't this part of what people want?
how will our economy work then and how do we justify some people hoarding thousands of btc for doing nothing?
if all 21 mil coins equaled the current amount of $ in the developed countries, 1 bitcoin would equal $ 10 mil.
i don't understand. this no work.
How exactly can you hoard bitcoins without doing anything? You are the one with the name freemoney maybe you should tell us.  Maybe not by doing nothing, but very little. Early adapter mines thousands and hoards. Does next to nothing and gets rich. That is an unjust system. LTC adoption will change it. |
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If deflation is so bad, then how horrible would a bitcoin based economy be?
Not bad at all, because you can vote with your wallet and get out of it if you choose. With state fiat monopoly deflation there is no escape and they exacerbate it by criminalising gold and alternate currencies in such situations. In order to support the failing system they lock everybody in to "share equally" in the misery of the elites who are losing their wealth and status. That is exactly what I have done. I just wish I had a bigger wallet. |
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Considering that they are printing money faster than any time in history, how would we be experiencing deflation? This is a great question. The reason that we will experience deflation is that no matter how much money they print if the can't get governments or individuals to take out loans the credit supply will deflate. All of the printed money stays in bank vaults as excess reserves. This is what is happening in america right now too. The world is a wash in debt, we are the greatest debtor nation the world has ever seen. So despite historically low interest rates for a historically long period of time the economy has not recovered and will not recover until the there is a debt liquidation. The only way for economies to grow is to add debt, the total debt must always grow, but it looks like we have reached the limits of credit expansion. This is the reason that the FED has engaged in QE. If they let the debt contract we will fall into a new great depression. The only way to cut the trillion dollar deficits is for the private sector to increase its debt. Our economy is on government life support, If they stop spending it will collapse |
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First let me say that I didnt read all of the post, but that I agree with arepo, in fact I have really enjoyed most of his post. The problem that he is talking about relates first and foremost to price stability. I can tell from the responses that I did read that we don't have a lot of retail business owners commenting here. This price spike has pushed me right out of the market and has friends saying that they won't use it. I have a couple friends that were looking at buying and have said no way. "I feel like I am missing out on making a lot of money, but I just cant take that kind of risk" I would not even consider taking BTC as payment for my goods at this time. I simply can not take payments in a currency that is so volatile. This is the heart of the matter. If people are holding coins off the market it pushes up price and distorts the signals. The only way for BTC to work is if it is used as money not a commodity. I find no reason what so ever to compare the two. BTC is 1's and 0's in the cloud with no intrinsic value what so ever.
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Spoken like someone who has no idea how the global economy is structured. Deflation is fine if money was real and not debt based. Deflation destroys money and causes a negative feedback loop that feeds on itself causing the collapses of the worlds major economies. |
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It will be interesting to see what the ECB is going to do about this. http://www.theautomaticearth.com/Finance/deflation-arrives-in-the-eurozone.htmlIs this the beginning of the end? I wonder if by the end of 2013 if the lines in the second graph will cross as the ECB ramps up bond buying programs? There are only a hand full of people who know just how dangerous deflation will be.... The New great depression will be the worst ever. |
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Been working for me all morning. Working right now.
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yikes. Never in my life have I had such are hard time giving my money to people.  |
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Just wondering if anyone has tried to fund their Ligpay account with paypal? If so how did it go and how long did it take?
I sent funds 3 days ago and they still are not showing up.
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My question isn't about the NVC BS(looks like a crap coin to me). I just want to know when the site will be back up and where are my funds? (not much money) but fuck this is the first time I have transferred and I cant access the site. Doesn't make me feel to good about transferring larger amount in the future. Not to mention the site looks like 1980's qbasic. This shit is so annoying. How many fucking payment accounts do I have to open to get some BTC? Mt.gox, dwolla, okpay,liqpay,btc-e, coinbase, have all of these fucking accounts and still no coins!
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Maybe so but I would say I am short term pessimist long term optimist. I think the idea is sound, just lots of obstacles to overcome. I knew when I decided to get into BTC that it was going to be full of thefts, drug attics, gamblers, and speculators, but so is life. I guess the real root of the problems is I dont like people. |
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I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....
Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow. As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes. I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?  You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it. Pfft, and I know it's far easier to be contacted by scammers on the internet(those who have never received a Nigerian 419 letter are free to raise your hands, not to say in the real world you can never spoof a real store checkout counter) than in the offline world, so doing business on the internet must have been ruined as well, Jesus. And yeah, you listed hoarders and speculators along with scammers, I don't even know what to say. Maybe a little harsh, but all are market destroyers. @Adam "In addition, you preserve capital by selling your security when it starts downtrending. You don't know where or when a downtrend might end" Barbara Rockafeller. If I had held that long I would have sold too. |
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I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....
Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow. As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes. I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice? You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it. |
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I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....
Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow. As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes. |
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Pretty heated in here. I voted yes. Of course it looks scammy right now. I haven't been able to get on the site all day. I had a 5 min window earlier and got my few coins off the site, but I had funds transferring and am really wondering where they are at about now. The NVC does look like at shit coin to me. I dont know enough about it to say for sure. Also on btc-e the site looks really generic, someone ahd mentioned it to me on otc and when I looked I was like no way am I sending money off the this dinky little nothing site. So yes it is looking scammy right now.
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How do you change your profile picture?
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A market where everyone thinks that he is gonna be rich in the next few years cannot work.
It made sense for me to invest in the past when I felt alone in this tough, but now, now everyone went mad.
+100 I called myself out of this game when it hit 19.8 the last time I bought was 17.5. BTC is looking self destructive to me right now. |
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Why isnt Gox going higher?
Come on we All saw it recover like a pro from that dump, we should blast off to 50 RIGHT NOW
controlled increase I guess...or a bunch of new slightly intelligent beings saw the dip and took advantage In other news, BTC-e appears to be down I can't cant get on either, kinda sucky I transferred USD last night and I wanted to see if it posted to my account. |
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