Folks and miners, with my Avalon ASIC chip distribution for DIYers slowly ramping down, it is time to move on. Two months ago I ordered BitFury chips for October delivery, which I am herein offering to DIY folks in lots of 300 chips (1/10 of a reel). PricingThe price is fixed at 108 81 BTC for 300 chips. At a nominal 2.7GHps per chip, this is 0.1BTC / GHps. Currency DenominationSince the offered chips are build to generate BTC, this offer is denominated in BTC. Existing sources for BitFury chips sell for fiat, so depending on the BTC/fiat exchange rate you might find my offer better or worse one day or another. Clearly, this is for those of you who got used to think in BTC and do not care much about exchange rate fluctuations on a daily basis. ShippingI will receive chips in W40 (first October week), you should have yours in hand no later than October 15th. Priority shipping is included. Urgent / express is available on request for an additional 1 BTC. How to orderSince the number of potential buyers is limited, the orders will be processed manually as follows: 1) Place your buy order via email2) If not sold out, I'll provide you with a payment address 3) You pay 20% down-payment, which is only refundable if I fail to deliver in time (see below) 4) You pay the remainder right before chips are shipped Guaranteed Lead TimeIn the event that chips are not shipped in time ( deadline: October 12th), the final price will be reduced proportionally to the increase in difficulty. That is: for any difficulty increase by X% that happens between the deadline and the shipment date, the price will be reduced by X%. If the total reduction exceeds 60%, buyer is given the right to cancel order and get his down-payment refunded. Edit: Clarification example: if your chips get delivered late, your price will be: initial price * min(1, (difficulty@deadline / difficulty@shipping_date))That min function ensures that you do not pay more than initial price in the event that difficulty declines - which formally has a non-zero probability (alas, we all know it practically is zero  ). AvailabilityI have 30 lots available (3 reels). Chips are distributed in the order down-payment is paid. Edit: Availability ends on September 19th. Cheers, zefir |
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Update: Order Status Change, future Refund RequestsOrder Status ChangeToday, the order status of our three remaining batches changed to 'Prepare-shipping', hope this means we'll see the chips soon. Future Refund RequestsI have been contacted by several users who missed the refund window. I am not sure if the changed order status implies that no refunds will be accepted any more. Anyhow, I'll need to collect enough requests to reach a threshold to ask for a refund of a full batch. Therefore, if you're absolutely sure that you don't need the ordered chips any more, feel free to place a refund request after the given process. I will add your request to the pending queue and ask for a refund, as soon as there is enough demand. Consequently, this means that your request is binding, i.e. can be served at any time, while at the same time it is not guaranteed, i.e. if refund is not processed, you will get your chips delivered. That's for the news. Thank you all for your kind words and your positive trust ratings.
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Update: Refunds processedAll requests from the list two posts above passed verification and were paid out. Thanks a lot for your patience and your support. I hoped for a happy end all the time, but that's how life is. Special thanks to all of you who asked me to keep the fees or who want to donate. Although I spent enormous time and lost lots of nerves with this, I don't want compensation for this failed venture. I took some risk anticipating to win big, but this time it did not work out well  . Next time, maybe. If you feel I'm doing things right and want to give some kudos to me, please consider doing this over the forum's trust system. Good Night.
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Update: Refund Request Window closed, Refunds processingTime's up, over.Refund QueueThese are the refunds requested during the given time window, without those canceled again. List is sorted after Bitcoin address: Chips BTC Address
----------------------------------------------------------
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-220 -18.92 1zYza9zY8ACAnoR2J7CfcZt16z4kTD7ph
The requests are now to be verified against the order data on file. Verified requests will be refunded within 24h, for not matching ones I will contact you for clarification.
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ye from what i can see on bitminter site in "latest shifts" speed is the same like with stratum proxy
only one whats bothering me is blade stats page
with stratum total speed = 13xxx and 99 efficiency but with bfgminer its 12600-12800 with 96 efficiency ;p
Ah, that you mean. Look into the source code: in driver-getwork.c:handle_getwork() you see how results are processed. The blades sometimes send submit request with empty work field (unclear why this happens), which are counted as HW errors and rejected as 'unknown-work'. Then there are those 'H-not-zero' rejects with a wrong nonce, plus the 'stale' ones. I assume that the stratum-proxy does not reject some of them (e.g. the empty ones) and since the efficiency provided by the blades is the ratio of accepted to requested work items it differs between bfgminer and stratum-proxy (with bfgminer being more accurate). My long term values for efficiency reported by blades is 96.4% and matches the expected numbers quite well. |
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with --queue 10 had many rejected shares too (3%)
i think its ok now with --no-submit-stale option.
it still shows at bfgminer stats A:1733 R:0+87(2.2%) but at least im not sending that shares to the mine
whats strange with that option stats on blade config panel showing normal stats like total mhz 13k and efficency 99
My blades settled at 2.3% after running for a week, and to me it seems perfectly accurate. Since the blades do not support LP, each time a block is found you get up to 32 stales (since each chip processes its own full nonce range). At 336 MHz, each chip needs 12.8 seconds for a full nonce range, so on average wastes 6.4 seconds per block change. With currently one block found every 440s, the theoretical loss is somewhere at 1.5% already - not too far from the measured stats. |
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it works almost perfect but i have much more rejected shares than on stratum proxy and blades stats page shows speed like 12600-12700 when on stratum proxy it was 13xxx and efficiency is 96.5 now, on stratum proxy it was like 99 i think maybe its bcouse 2 blades im getting much rejected shares (stale) im trying same user on both blades edit: yes with same user on both blades it works ok no more rejected shares edit2: yes confirmed again 2 diferent users = again some rejected (stale) shares for now it works perfect only if u set same user/pw on all blades (no stale rejected shares) Hm, sounds like an issue I observed when debug log displays work-item queue underruns. In my case it helped to increase the the work-item queue, you could try adding e.g. to the parameter list or put it into the config file. |
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Clarification: Batches refunded vs. active OrdersBuyers with orders in batch 6-8, please do not freak out  Having batches 6-8 refunded does not mean that your chips from those batches were refunded and you won't get them delivered. It just means our last 30k chips are refunded and your order will be shifted up, keeping the initial placement. Effectively, with batch 5 all outstanding orders will be served.
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Update: Refund received, Refund Deadline, Refund CancellationRefunds receivedI have received refunds for batches 6, 7, and 8. Refund QueueThis is the current refund queue: Chips BTC Address
----------------------------------------------------
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-360 -30.96 168Mn2DiZMnhnnesVYZQWNUQL2CAEfhXDT
-40 -3.44 148nKdqjjJPGQXAQrg5ZBtMRWNaBe7vxeS
-370 -31.82 1GR97eioEqhbbqTvHKK3xZWgar2wZT8DGV
-490 -42.14 1PyvPBpWUD1NwCuSppr6DCA3TrP9zwF9qR
-200 -17.2 1P8KGrN9kGxThpuPcaHYSm4msRREWFDAn2
-200 -17.2 1Mc5YsMcg35Cp5BShQg76oGsxmyJCrJ7zG
-220 -18.92 1zYza9zY8ACAnoR2J7CfcZt16z4kTD7ph
-420 -36.12 1Jug2BJUPEtZzZcJNokZnLFrsobdk7J6Tb
-100 -8.6 1AFru9Zwxq3M7YHkWE6haHHCGmRtpvdYrM
Due to the latest updates at manufacturers side, I am going to extend the previously given deadline and make it a strict one: Strict Deadline: Wednesday evening GMT (2013-09-04T18:00Z, epoch 1378317600)Please take your time and make up your mind if you a) want to file a refund, or b) you want to cancel an already filed refund request. This is a strict deadline: after it passed, I will start paying out refunds. Refund requests or cancellations sent after the deadline will be ignored.This thread will remain locked until the deadline passed to keep the announcement visible. If something is unclear, please contact me via PM.
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I requested, but I'm not in the list. Anyhow, as there is progress in burnins assembly, is it possible to cancel the request before tuesday evening?
Thank you zefir!
I will check the list for your request when I am back from work. As for canceling a posted request: well, I already asked for a refund based on the requests I collected, so I can't really handle such back and forth games. They are causing lots of work and a guarantee to make mistakes. Therefore to state the obvious explicitly: refund requests are final - once placed, they can not be canceled. Also, many of you fail to follow the refund process I introduced here, but instead are sending me PMs or just asking for refunds without providing the required data. To have at least a chance of processing them correctly, please file refund requests over the given process. Thanks. BTW, still no refunds received from Avalon. |
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@Zefir, I have asked for refund, but not in the list. Could you please check it?
It is there, you need to scroll down to see it. |
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Zefir, I'm happy to see something proactive occurring from the Bitsyncom camp, but please for you sake I think you need to re-consider the following;
1). Refunding from your own pocket right now. As much as I dare say Bitsyncom see the need to quell the discontent here, they are flakey at best, so if I were you I'd hold out on the notion you'll 100% receive your refund in the short term. Just for your sake to be safe.
2). There is a huge mount of chips, 135 boxes that were delivered in June to Bitsyncom, as described on the customs info using the tracking number. These are unaccounted for in their entirety. I'm surprised you would discount litigation at this point, as you must be out of a considerable sum from your own pocket beyond just the chips. Certainly Burnin will be, as will BKK, Terrahash and anyone, including all your customers that have coughed up for assembly and parts, and their own time. Certainly the assemblers can afford to refund some of the funds, but they are already huge.y out of pocket for inventory, and hours spent aside chips due to Bitsyncom's shennanigans.
There is a long way to go before this is remotely rectified. If proof to the contrary cannot be provided, which if there is truth to Bitsyncom's claims, proof could then easily be provided, fraud has taken place. It never will be rectified, but really it is up to the community to decide about litigation, and I'm surprised you are so flippant and eager to forgive, when the debt incurred is far beyond that of chips Bitsyncom promised and hand in hand over ten weeks ago. People gave up jobs, and set up businesses and bought stock for their inventory. They have already invested time and money beyond the chips themselves they will never get back. That is not cool, and needs to be addressed. Some of these people face bankruptcy, which may well could have been avoided if Bitsyncom addressed and communicated the issue as and when they knew they would be a little bit late, or reasonably late, before becoming considerably late. The fact they didn't boggles the mind as to what, of any honesty to their claims exist. Again the truth is easy to provide evidence for, and unfortunately you may yet have to force that hand with the threat of litigation. As Bitsyncom are clearly reluctant to provide proof, again if true would be effortless, one can only assume they are not being honest. Supporting paperwork at the very least needs to provided, or if needs be demanded via legal action, for those out of pocket to be reimbursed. Again Bitsyncom's efforts in continuing to voluntarily repay back as much of the debts incurred can only benefit them in the long run in the eyes of the law.
Litigation harming Bitcoin is nonsense, it would in fact mean that companies go the extra mile to ensure Bitcoin becomes a safer alternative, further solidifying it's existence as an alternative payment method to traditional finance. It's up to the community and companies involved to play a smarter game.
Thank you for this constructive and sane response. I am perfectly with you with all you are saying. But... I am either just tired from dealing with this over almost half a year, or just too old for this sh*t. Here in Germany we have a relevant saying (sorry for the crappy translation) like 'being right and getting your right are two different pairs of shoes', and in this case the price to get our right for what we know we are right IMHO is too high. My argument is this: Avalon's dealings in this case are limited to chip sales (to private or group-buyers), they never had an agreement with any designer or manufacturer out there to develop and sell mining rig. There is no contract or anything you could base a legal recourse on to enforce a compensation. As most of the forum folks here IANAL, therefore I try to get some assessment by looking at potential but simple precedence cases. So what if AMD today announced some xx970 chipset and some independent developer starts designing an LC-mining card based on that without having an agreement with AMD. Then (how unexpected) chipset gets delayed or canceled, while developer already spent time and money that is lost now. Would any judge anywhere really care? My feeling is not, but again IANAL. All we have is the contract to deliver chips with a given lead time of 9-10 weeks. There are no terms included regarding compensations for late orders nor any other form of penalties defined. All we have is a contract that was breached by Avalon and was offered full refund instead. Here I'd expect that any judge would consider this as a fair compromise. We might speculate why all this happened and even assume that this was all planned and set up by Avalon to crush competition and keep miners invested while developing the next and next-next-gen chip. But until otherwise proven I personally give them the benefit of the doubt and assume things went wrong outside their control. Sooner or later we all will know what happened, and with that my preference is to let the market judge instead of loosing more money and nerves to lawyers. This is only my personal opinion and in no way meant to represent this group buy or any user participating. I will provide every single bit of information or document I have available to support someone going the litigation path, but I myself am not going to dump more resources or nerves into this. I am tired and I want to forget. |
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Update: Refund Status and DeadlineRefund StatusThis is the current refund queue: Chips BTC Address
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-250 -21.5 1PxMjbE7nJub4JVQdFtopMxh4mCGxjbzfC
-100 -8.6 1DSFkmqxzyH7CynXQ76d6uc1WzSxBHTha2
-600 -51.6 1NrTTDSEQHKiSxmQqe7ch8ovMenBjUBkBZ
-500 -43.0 18uvZrG9q2hAJrY1MNxVbLs7pZZQGXELSg
-1290 -110.94 12knpx2FZaG22k1KCwhMviNZfTwYDjPCeg
-15 -1.29 1LLJGXsHZqv4DMGhi5n27PGxaNpcxFmsFq
-30 -2.58 1JphTgzZXWYqxh8JQtB2vannMSWa3yJr2A
-70 -6.02 16SSPCBRxzaiXjA6XoCpq8tBvJdhoSSPmA
-10 -0.86 16SSPCBRxzaiXjA6XoCpq8tBvJdhoSSPmA
-120 -10.32 1HaNP4owS4pfSDSeYydHuckZPmCcozLUGP
-40 -3.44 15o5rVc3doyACnZihjXmhCmNK92tGf1DMB
-20 -1.72 1HMwhanZiGHBdJUsUymvjdeLvGc8p6rXqF
-300 -25.8 1F8dG9k57uiNyPh1K8eekXbEVqjFFsuZKy
-680 -58.48 1F8dG9k57uiNyPh1K8eekXbEVqjFFsuZKy
-50 -4.3 14xFPNKEhdX4EiXFzS1heZBaee7fczjFoW
-250 -21.5 1K6cDLhcQCHjpXQD9KUM4rs9PFLgfYBpKc
-50 -4.3 1JEiGfeEDixjt3YFRNHj83y125eNzBQwrN
-150 -12.9 19FijdTUxXE4shP3uBHHGhDW32GwBC5Lyw
-200 -17.2 12V3iHq7yAbZk3XC2KDDSmJP2RzzUudkCj
-50 -4.3 1Bgu2w4vBTXDDkpWkjAeomVnRRYASnCaJV
-200 -17.2 16b2mStn1YjH8bnWYGrayLgdBMa6hAiNpU
-20 -1.72 13jHEGUfPfCPozzG2VxLYJZdjeYhv2fq5f
-10 -0.86 13jHEGUfPfCPozzG2VxLYJZdjeYhv2fq5f
-10 -0.86 13jHEGUfPfCPozzG2VxLYJZdjeYhv2fq5f
-200 -17.2 1ChoHXUKSkhYfTo17LNPKZK3St9NWSrSrf
-50 -4.3 1ChoHXUKSkhYfTo17LNPKZK3St9NWSrSrf
-10 -0.86 18NNZA7eV9zdE6B6fT8D3qVtaimMwkDiGh
-60 -5.16 18wizj3k69UKcayeC9NEM3mR8Ye3zfMtbT
-40 -3.44 16wD5mRQBfUHUpmZyEeFQv3sgySzZqiUX4
-50 -4.3 16wD5mRQBfUHUpmZyEeFQv3sgySzZqiUX4
-50 -4.3 16wD5mRQBfUHUpmZyEeFQv3sgySzZqiUX4
-20 -1.72 19bKGxRDdQzxZCiomBQTCJdTuY9hY8MaAG
-400 -34.4 19E1Hi1AEhgxfXsQH4StxHP1a6rL2gztim
-500 -43 1JZXXL1bL5oU7qTZJ9y1o1yXEm1HuSDxfx
-1150 -98.9 16MxDjVzmCQ62usJj649PFf7y5CF192NM4
-100 -8.6 13Q3eksnXYv7yaZhqtYUd8SJSKi1JJ8W53
-10 -0.86 1Gqy5JeUU9RWCnnYXeCjCaEuFts9wKyQem
-10 -0.86 1Gqy5JeUU9RWCnnYXeCjCaEuFts9wKyQem
-20 -1.72 1Gqy5JeUU9RWCnnYXeCjCaEuFts9wKyQem
-10 -0.86 1PW9fvHQdUqwSb8DMkpDFCwnGjCJp6ZWX1
-40 -3.44 18WWjvZfjDLsDuBRktL4YK5jpe2bvG7b7a
-300 -25.8 1Fpp7B3DJbjf1Tg2aodi7rPUym2UKa7gHc
-20 -1.72 17sYSprh8QbWXat1vnYoyR7kuindCcpj23
-45 -3.87 1NMrtqsMgDBp1zGSGKC6bC26tQsj1Emt85
-600 -51.6 1Ex87tbegxtyd1GGLtP1cHBidqxMQZjxhA
-20 -1.72 13niA2BjbXg3p3g6YvUy1RCm79AwB9tzgc
-30 -2.58 1VQtwHQHNyLiZ6ttRVBxcuPt8jt1U1yWG
-300 -25.8 1GjAbLU8UTn4YArcGv4kRnkMtWnqe5aq4c
-20 -1.72 1FcXcUL45YQu4aWmtZLF8uPvJPNYhV6Ee4
-100 -8.6 19sS8Duo2as8X7UTqEBR4FVFJxGyar7Ry1
-40 -3.44 1Ja5MunxuEXqx4EAhPxXaQowuq55srVH6N
That is a total amount of refund requests for 9210 chips. I placed a refund request yesterday, but neither got an confirmation email nor BTC so far. With the refunds already processed, I'm quite confident that everyone requesting will get his coins back, therefore I will start refunding today as much as I can from my own reserves. Refund Request DeadlineYifu announced that 40 batches will be ready for shipment on Wednesday. Since our orders are among the early ones, chances are good that we get the remaining 5 batches sent out all at once. Therefore, the time frame to get refund requests accepted is limited. Those of you still considering a refund, please do so until Tuesday evening GMT (2013-09-03T18:00Z, epoch 1378231200). Refund requests posted after this request can not be guaranteed to get accepted.I have no idea what 'sort of compensation model' Avalon is referring to, but what I know for sure is that once chips are delivered, you are left with a limited scope of action and Avalon's goodwill - without means to enforce anything. So if you decide to keep your chips and hope for some additional compensation, do this solely on your own assessment and risk-awareness. My position in this case is this: with the refunds offered, Avalon met their liability towards their direct customers and there remains no justification for legal recourses. Of course the damage dealt to the community exceeds the refunded coins: designers spent lots of time and efforts, manufacturers paid for parts and PCBs, and finally a dozen of group-buyers lost time and nerves to organize the chip distribution. Alas, IMHO this is none of Avalon's business - everyone made his decision based on own risk-reward-assessment and due diligence. Sure the manufacturers invested the most and are facing huge financial losses short term. But their efforts are not void in mid to long-term - just to name some examples: burnin proved his ability to design great mining devices and therefore was selected as designer for the PETA-MINE project; Bitmine attracted a large investor and is going to have their own 28nm ASICs soon; and finally BkkCoins showed the Bitcoin world how open source HW development is done right and gained a huge reputation that will open him doors in the future. Since almost all designers and manufacturers have next-gen mining boards in their pipeline, instead of waiting for Avalon to offer some compensation, please consider showing your support by leaving your pre-order funds there and buy some next-gen mining rig.
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Are you aware of the build process required to follow (pre-reqs, autogen, configure, make)? If not, be sure to read the READMEs.
thx yes I have done all pre-reqs 我也遇到了这个问题 ubuntu server ，恳请知道 如何解决？ CC bfgminer-httpsrv.o In file included from httpsrv.c:15:0: /usr/include/microhttpd.h:497:3: error: unknown type name ‘intptr_t’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:830:5: error: unknown type name ‘uint64_t’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:868:46: error: unknown type name ‘uint64_t’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:893:55: error: unknown type name ‘va_list’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:1085:57: error: unknown type name ‘uint64_t’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:1087:57: error: unknown type name ‘MHD_ContentReaderCallback’ /usr/include/microhttpd.h:1197:54: error: unknown type name ‘MHD_PostDataIterator’ make[2]: *** [bfgminer-httpsrv.o] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/root/bfgminer' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/bfgminer' make: *** [all] Error 2 I am working with Linux. $ lsb_release -irc
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Release: 13.04
Codename: raring
$ uname -a
Linux PC 3.8.0-27-generic #40-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 9 00:17:05 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
$ gcc --version
gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.3-1ubuntu1) 4.7.3
Copyright (C) 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Just tried with a fresh clone of the GIT repository and it worked. Step-by-Step: 1. ensure you have the required libs installed sudo apt-get install libjansson-dev libmicrohttpd-dev libncurses5-dev uthash-dev libcurl4-openssl-dev
2. clone the GIT repository git clone https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer.git
3. prepare and build cd bfgminer
./autogen.sh
./configure --disable-opencl --disable-bitforce --disable-adl --disable-modminer --disable-ztex --disable-avalon --disable-icarus --disable-modminer --disable-x6500
make
If this fails for you, and you have a different system, please post a bug report at https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer/issues |
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Notification: Chips delivered with B1 and B2Sorry folks, this is overdue, but due to the recent happenings I found no time to prepare the data in time. This is the list of chips that has been distributed from batches 1 and 2: Batch Chips Address Destination
1 1760 13BQocSpK6Ny8xubRGSXvdw5r4aTVBkrNp marto74
1 240 13BQocSpK6Ny8xubRGSXvdw5r4aTVBkrNp strombom
1 100 15BEMHdT27kP2K6Yca2rEGwChRuzuHub8s own
1 10 1G88KbjZi39ZA3BMXDwfmzidVDf2y2BKSp burnin
1 10 1Pv44QYXwC3FMiNZgXcpZRKyuXXueyVRrd burnin
1 390 1DDBpNCBHARLzk8wDpB3oHozm5aovxeCk6 own
1 10 1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T burnin
1 12 1MarbLezGShArudGnm7o1Z7K9iQQ9CdKU4 own
1 10 14o3Xk5cbDMnYeBRW6pVgMuMJfC2gEhFpr burnin
1 320 1B8HcvE1Ag2eUR5fJZU29r7wgV9A7Rn91U strombom
1 280 1B8HcvE1Ag2eUR5fJZU29r7wgV9A7Rn91U ryepdx
1 40 13p3UtJyfHYDA6L4MAHmnHYGQ3qKs2Dc5T burnin
1 20 1EFrzG2hfUdhAzAHiFgZ3DEg6wHa7JFEg9 own
1 30 1QHyDiUvu1GpmNQfYAJpw67XSuEZfDNgeC burnin
1 10 1E26zhEHQq1AgkjnxchuRs1stwVH9X8Gni own
1 8 1MarbLezGShArudGnm7o1Z7K9iQQ9CdKU4 own
1 50 13FdjGU6P6q6ypqWVQ2fJpF93ikTKTH2yS burnin
1 70 16LtRGhh6wV65rntyvYPvnUNT3Lgv7xhDH ryepdx
1 50 1JVfngaFgaqa3BqBeP7ftFdPwr2sD514y3 strombom
1 100 16cdEgS1LfoAXC1uJhVaoSsYaDeoT2oDyo own
1 500 15AkZM1u2jXhetHEKLnQ5ScM6bvjGePYHd burnin
1 100 1JLzgdt3JhnSxQEgWv8Zd828M2eawGRuZA own
1 10 1LfDCbF7A1eegFymzCwYiWXuYsgPtgX8SL burnin
1 10 1ND1i4rcY7RJkJv9JvpizY51RjUYnhpJVQ burnin
1 50 1P7NGKHZBtpcUbqfRa4WX4fQnVNM7rRoyX own
1 110 1GhNkFnaXgcEBuJwgJhXHLjXZJrqLNFKbV burnin
1 30 1KqaXegcLn72rMYAerZLq3PiHz7WScjXvM burnin
1 500 1Kfsuv5xnVZHjkw7jdFyhAMWdRzoRQH8ks own
1 100 12HMTWSXTX9aQCBU6kRAZU5MwgNmGr8HjS burnin
1 20 1Pv44QYXwC3FMiNZgXcpZRKyuXXueyVRrd burnin
1 50 1JPtkDdgbbNxJgWjYtwMfWsLhAHdWR6TeQ burnin
1 200 15BEMHdT27kP2K6Yca2rEGwChRuzuHub8s own
1 10 1LnYQiE7Zt2o1AydhDXTSvoqys8BSJQKNC own
1 200 1pDimB6dXL5Cbqs1XDY8onkFj9deHmn7h burnin
1 50 1LFuHESA9K2AY9Ncpy3wGMpaB6zpTF8U78 own
1 100 16xaGH9D2AwG7yooFeo8qDXvgtPDRRfkDh burnin
1 60 12DNdacCtUZ99qcP74FwchaCPzeDL9Voff marto74
1 10 1LFuHESA9K2AY9Ncpy3wGMpaB6zpTF8U78 own
1 100 1Kfsuv5xnVZHjkw7jdFyhAMWdRzoRQH8ks own
1 120 16xaGH9D2AwG7yooFeo8qDXvgtPDRRfkDh burnin
1 10 17bytFkbVfpr4re3t8RdJgzLVm6XPtZLXo own
1 100 1pDstJv8t2MNm8ipTwg68P1u8nEYxP9tk own
1 30 1LFuHESA9K2AY9Ncpy3wGMpaB6zpTF8U78 own
2 380 1Bgu2w4vBTXDDkpWkjAeomVnRRYASnCaJV burnin
2 10 14aDJ3ciTmMpkW3etG6bNMN1oQQLhJmPMt burnin
2 700 19mhMrsLVg6dnaskWWoyY92GuSFBk6mvqQ burnin
2 400 1JbxcwwAy3ozAriSQ1Vexhz7AH6a6kNrpX burnin
2 120 1F7aPwhDyAJ8qFeLhVywg6pL1Wr7BpnCJb burnin
2 300 1JRp6vWi4dMUbaiSGxnnZ1Lo31mEnXK9Yo burnin
2 10 13r3a2wPR2ZiQbmN9XiQjcKWutnike6H6f burnin
2 500 17zBXRqsibwYriEALvmVgaKizhvXrGLPJA strombom
2 10 14ueYQdkjAoFhrfQumZEwzQ3Zg6fALraM8 burnin
2 80 16Mszwah7Czzgs1ULEuj5ZUfWvkYbMgZG6 burnin
2 10 1PVPGVQGfT8xiUYTNFkBxH7yRBQdUtNrvX own
2 100 1EcMQxq7XBGsim5BpGune56wZpthcEFQN9 burnin
2 700 1MSoqSFoyaPfpm8UiH1KRzWYx3ECcdWCPu burnin
2 10 198S1UfpVvLXJoLWYBJNsZnVQoyHFv5jku burnin
2 650 12knpx2FZaG22k1KCwhMviNZfTwYDjPCeg burnin
2 500 1Y7nz26nC4nrWADcj3jZSVSsH7KRZTsKZ burnin
2 30 19n18f4D1cSRHJH5cMVxBV5LobmJk64hqX burnin
2 320 15Y5NPeCU2zSmrwscBnSi8uybhVEqpE7bi strombom
2 100 16xaGH9D2AwG7yooFeo8qDXvgtPDRRfkDh burnin
2 360 16q2XVdzjaKbiBVwzMaaHqsG1iGN3FHaFV Terrahash
2 30 1FhKGnAtr6s8gbj7HmzA4H7mytSCQUfvo4 burnin
2 50 15xGnu9mqDuU6JXv5zfcDTTnKdLD8sdmvZ own
2 1000 13nS35LWaCbwgKd6kLitdxdLJfEs21p6s8 burnin
Those chips are in production now and obviously can't be refunded any more. Did not her back from Avalon about clarifications for refunds, ETA, or price discount estimates. Will post as soon as I know more.
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Is the refund in btc and in full? Would I get the same amount of btc I paid? Could you ask the discount? 10% is not worth the refund and rebuying, nor would 50% compensate if you already paid a manufacturer..
Since chip prices are given denominated in BTC, I understand we are talking about BTC refunds in full, everything else would be not acceptable. Yes, I'll ask for estimates on discount, alas I do not expect reliable answers, since prices are dynamically adjusted to market conditions.
- I have orders in two batches. Can I get a refund for only one order?
- How much BTC per chip will be refunded?
Yes, you can place a line per order you want refunded, or sum up all your orders into a single line. Though, you can not get an order partially refunded (this is impossible to handle). See above: we are talking about full refunds, you get back what you paid.
Any news on batch #3 chips?
As always, news are posted immediately here.
@zefir... i handle it the way in my groupbuy that i ask if the buyers want refund and if they want how many chips they would like to get anyway. Since we bought 5.6 batches it might be possible that one batch still remains ordered while the others get a refund.
In case the chip count of those chips that dont want to be refunded and its not reaching 10k... maybe we could work something out in case your buyers want enough chips to be delivered anyway that a full batch comes out of it?
Only a thought...
I have enough own chips in order to easily do the inverse fore-running I did when ordering: I'll ask for a refund of a batch immediately and for the next as soon as I have refund requests for 10k chips. We can start coordinating this when we approach the end of the refund queue to ensure every buyer gets what he wants. To state the obvious: noone will be forced to take a refund if he does not want, as well as noone will be forced to keep the chips if he does not want. There will be a later demand to set a deadline to clear things up in a timely manner, but right now everyone has enough time to form his fully independent decision. |
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Update: Batch Refund ProcessingStatusAfter today's response from BitsynCom, what we have is: - Avalon prefers to refund in full
- partial compensation should be implemented by a full refund followed by ordering in-stock chips for lowered prices
- no compensation with more chips possible (due to short supply)
- no upgrade to next-gen products, which would be the old pre-order madness again
At the other side we have: - users willing to take the refunds and forget
- users willing to wait for their chips to build their boards
- users demanding a compensation if they wait longer
To not over-complicate the process, I propose to limit it to the two obvious choices: a) full refund now, or b) keep waiting. For those with chips in one of the next batches, I'll try to get some shipping estimate from Avalon, but as we have seen how difficult it is to predict those, such an ETA might not be reliable at all. Those demanding their chips plus some compensation for the delay should follow the proposed approach: get a refund now and order chips later when they are in stock and cheaper. You do not need to cancel the order at your manufacturer, but instead postpone the finalization of the boards. Refund ProcessingTo get things started, I need everyones binding decision on this. Everyone please evaluate your personal situation and perform your mining profitability calculations. If you conclude you'd like to get your order refunded, please do this by sending this single CSV formatted line for each order you want refunded <forum nick>;<-N>;<-C>;<address> to the related email address. Please send from the mail you registered with at my website to ensure authenticity, otherwise please add the signature for the above CSV-line with the given address. Edit: the variables above are: N=number of chips; C=amount in BTC. Please omit the square brackets, they are used as notation for mandatory fields. Edit2: If you want all your orders refunded, you are free to add them up to cumulative numbers for N and C; otherwise, you can post one request per order to be refunded in your request. Edit3: refund requests are final and cant't be canceled If you want to keep waiting for your chips, just don't do anything right now. Refunds will be distributed in full as soon as I receive them from Avalon. Thanks for your support.
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FYI Dear BitSyncom,
I organized one of the first group-buys for Avalon ASICs with a total of 80k chips during the second half of April. I already received the first two orders, and while they arrived later than agreed, I understand the difficulties you faced with delivery and am happy to have enabled some DIY projects to produce boards with an expected break-even potential.
With the further delays and the recent development in the mining market, we already passed the point where your chips will ever see a ROI. While the accelerated development of next-gen ASICs and the resulting increase in difficulty is every miners' risk issue, the delay is not. Decision to order the chips was based on your ToS giving a 9-10 weeks delivery time, and with the remaining orders being late for at least 8 weeks you for sure are aware that the chips lost their chance to make back their investment.
As you can imagine, all users desperately waiting for their chips are becoming more and more impatient. I personally have ~200 very sad and upset people in my group-buy and I feel very desperate and helpless not being able to do anything about it.
Yifu, it is only some months ago where you have been one of the most respected and honored person in Bitcoinland. I strongly believe that all this mess is a result of issues out of your control. Nevertheless with power comes responsibility, and now it is on you to take responsibility for the masses of folks out there who put serious amount of coins into your chips. If you really care about Bitcoin and its community, you can't just stand there and watch how disappointed users leave the scene.
As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders
Would you be willing and capable to consider those suggestions? If so, I'd be glad to negotiate between my group-buyers and you to reach some agreement acceptable for both sides. Also, I would include other group-buy organizers to come to a generic agreement. For the sake of Bitcoin, please come back to me and let's bring this, that poisoned the community already enough, to an end.
Best Regards
zefir
I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding. a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest. b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.) c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.) d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this. you are welcome to post this in your thread. |
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