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2421  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:49:49 AM
The premise here is that this flaw could allow 51% attacks on alternate-algorithm coins with bitcoin hardware.

You have a wrong premise. The main vulnerability is NOT bitcoin hardware, but the speed differential between sha256 and other hashes. If cryptonight hashes at a few hashes per second and you use a sha256 800 mhash GPU (7970), why would you need an ASIC hardware? You will already have 99.9% of the network.

you're both not understanding each other. your arguments have nothing to do with his and vice versa.

Excuse me:

He writes

Quote
As you can see, these alternative hashing implementations are reliant on conversion back to uint256 then hashed as sha256, meaning that the entire hashing process can simply be shortcircuited back to sha256, bypassing these algorithms entirely, making the coin mineable by sha256 asics.

Why would the short-circuiting of the hash only work in ASICs and not in CPUs or GPUs (with SHA256 mining software)? Please explain this to me because I'm an idiot.

Yeah he didn't get that, your point is valid, you don't need asics to mine sha256, you can generate sha256 blocks with any mining hardware Smiley

Exactly. And GPU sha256 is orders of magnitude faster than many other algos (so bypassing the other algos ensures a tremendous speed advantage). Hence the "requirement" for ASIC sha256 to "test it" is bogus. So why doesn't he make a software mining client for cpu or gpu so that we can see it?

it's not the mining client that needs to be modified, it's the actual coin source from what I understand so that you skip the primary hash verification and go directly to the sha256 one. The network should see it as a valid hash since it's ultimately a sha256 hash.

Yes, that's what I actually meant (wrote it wrong). Even the wallet can mine with a cpu sha256 - and be quite fast at it (compared to slow algos running on GPUs).
2422  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:44:28 AM
The premise here is that this flaw could allow 51% attacks on alternate-algorithm coins with bitcoin hardware.

You have a wrong premise. The main vulnerability is NOT bitcoin hardware, but the speed differential between sha256 and other hashes. If cryptonight hashes at a few hashes per second and you use a sha256 800 mhash GPU (7970), why would you need an ASIC hardware? You will already have 99.9% of the network.

you're both not understanding each other. your arguments have nothing to do with his and vice versa.

Excuse me:

He writes

Quote
As you can see, these alternative hashing implementations are reliant on conversion back to uint256 then hashed as sha256, meaning that the entire hashing process can simply be shortcircuited back to sha256, bypassing these algorithms entirely, making the coin mineable by sha256 asics.

Why would the short-circuiting of the hash only work in ASICs and not in CPUs or GPUs (with SHA256 mining software)? Please explain this to me because I'm an idiot.

Yeah he didn't get that, your point is valid, you don't need asics to mine sha256, you can generate sha256 blocks with any mining hardware Smiley

Exactly. And GPU sha256 is orders of magnitude faster than many other algos (so bypassing the other algos ensures a tremendous speed advantage). Hence the "requirement" for ASIC sha256 to "test it" is bogus. So why doesn't he make a software mining client for cpu or gpu so that we can see it?
2423  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:41:18 AM
The premise here is that this flaw could allow 51% attacks on alternate-algorithm coins with bitcoin hardware.

You have a wrong premise. The main vulnerability is NOT bitcoin hardware, but the speed differential between sha256 and other hashes. If cryptonight hashes at a few hashes per second and you use a sha256 800 mhash GPU (7970), why would you need an ASIC hardware? You will already have 99.9% of the network.

you're both not understanding each other. your arguments have nothing to do with his and vice versa.

Excuse me:

He writes

Quote
As you can see, these alternative hashing implementations are reliant on conversion back to uint256 then hashed as sha256, meaning that the entire hashing process can simply be shortcircuited back to sha256, bypassing these algorithms entirely, making the coin mineable by sha256 asics.

Why would the short-circuiting of the hash only work in ASICs and not in CPUs or GPUs (with SHA256 mining software)? Please explain this to me because I'm an idiot.
2424  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:37:15 AM
The premise here is that this flaw could allow 51% attacks on alternate-algorithm coins with bitcoin hardware.

You have a wrong premise. The main vulnerability is NOT bitcoin hardware, but the speed differential between sha256 and other hashes. If cryptonight hashes at a few hashes per second and you use a sha256 800 mhash GPU (7970), why would you need an ASIC hardware? You will already have 99.9% of the network.
2425  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:29:14 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to "make the point" by moding a mining program and raping non-sha altcoins?

Why expend energy in trying to convince others about the theory, instead of actually doing it and showing it? What is the obstacle?

I'm seeking someone with a fairly large amount of Sha 256 asics to help me test the theory.

Some altcoin algos run at like 3-5 Mhs at some GPUs while SHA256 runs at like 500 MHs. It's already 100x+. Why do you need asics? Mod a client and have fun.

In the case of cryptonight which runs at like a few hashes per sec, you are orders of magnitude faster with 500 MHs of a GPU sha256.

You don't understand the premise at all. The hashes are always converted back to sha256, meaning theoretically you could short circuit the entire algorithms of these coins with bitcoin's sha 256 algorithm and still produce valid blocks on the network.

No I understand what you are saying. I do not understand why you "require" sha256 asics for "testing it". You can test it even with a cpu (or gpu).
2426  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:21:35 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to "make the point" by moding a mining program and raping non-sha altcoins?

Why expend energy in trying to convince others about the theory, instead of actually doing it and showing it? What is the obstacle?

I'm seeking someone with a fairly large amount of Sha 256 asics to help me test the theory.

Some altcoin algos run at like 3-5 Mhs at some GPUs while SHA256 runs at like 500 MHs. It's already 100x+. Why do you need asics? Mod a client and have fun.

In the case of cryptonight which runs at like a few hashes per sec, you are orders of magnitude faster with 500 MHs of a GPU running sha256.
2427  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Theoretical]The Short-Circuit 51% attack vulnerability in non Sha256 altcoins. on: June 29, 2014, 02:15:52 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to "make the point" by moding a mining program and raping non-sha altcoins?

Why expend energy in trying to convince others about the theory, instead of actually doing it and showing it? What is the obstacle?
2428  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 12:14:13 AM
I believe shutting the pool is an improvement of development fundamentals: more time for development instead of "oh I was locked out of my account" or "where is my payment" logistic issues.

PS. For some reason I took emails of other guys and account balances (from DRK pool), along with mine. Were other people registered with my email or the hacker changed it to mine? I wonder.
2429  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 04:35:16 PM
Our collective ADD and "we need the dev to hold our hand" have spiked to tremendous levels.
You got a turd in your pocket named "Our?"

Heh... yeah personally I don't feel the need for hand-holding and the rush for having news all the time. It's like a plural of kindness - we are in this problem together, kind of.
2430  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 04:28:38 PM

ok i hear you
if RC3 is not 100% bulletproofed and such ….> (we should wait)
but then we should be ready for RC4 and whatever comes after !
in my opinion there has to be a PR team in place for future updates, press releases,
PR concernes, updating to the public (to get more people involved) and to our community.

There was a research here at some point (can not find the page anymore)
where somebody did a research on the community involvement of DRK, and we were way behind Dodge, BTC, LTC,….
(based on numbers from FB, Twitter, google+, bitcointalk,……)

Time to hit the drum and spread the word !
Maybe not today or tomorrow …. but soon !
and for that we need a proper PR team in place !

I've spoken with Evan about this, and there will be a broader effort going into RC4.  But there is a line between good marketing and the "GET HYPE!!1ZOMG" garbage that runs rampant in the alt coin community - and we won't be crossing it.  Beat the drums when it's the right time to do so, not 24/7.  Now is not quite the right time to do so.

Taken from the Libertycoin thread:

Anyway, It is not nessesary for me to be here everyday; only in pump and dump coins, devs are on this forum every day. I am old school, months ago, developers were not pumping their coins every day, it wasn't developers job to control de price.

In three lines, the guy has described the recent phenomenon where the altcoin world has taken the news-addiction to a whole new level of everyday news and pumps. Ahahaha I'm old school - we weren't pumping coins all day, ahahah this is the stuff of legends. Our collective ADD and "we need the dev to hold our hand" have spiked to tremendous levels.
2431  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 03:52:49 PM
I think Evan is going to be heavy on the PR after RC4. I dont think RC3 should be shouted about at the moment since its more like a public testing.

Yep... there is nothing to write about. It's debugging the system before *really* getting activated with the network enforcing the rules which are programmed into it.

Consider the payments right now as a bonus, but it's not how the network should be operating. It will operate according to spec in the future, when everything is sorted out from the testing/debugging phase.

No PR needed at this stage.
2432  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 12:50:14 PM
WTF? 13k diff @ ltc? Totally missed that... scrypt asics are having a party - so everyone is headed elsewhere.

I know. That why I think LTC is dead. ASIC farmers are the biggest dumpers. GPU miners are fleeting out.
 The only thing positive I see about this is a huge crash on the shitcoin market. In no time, 90% will die off.

Thats one of my top five reasons DRK gives me a boner.

 PLUS... ASIC companies are all... (except gridseed)... stupidly behind schedule. Pre-order are much much way behind BTC equivalents. Everyone is getting seriously burnt, while in the back-end they're mining the shit out of it for "testing reasons". All of them are promissing double and triple MH rates, already rolling out batch 2 or 3 pre-orders before releasing batch 1... its just immoral and ridiculous.

Good thing is even if DRK is 100% ASIC'ed, the inflation is low + 20% goes to nodes, so... ASICs might rape every other X11 coin out there but DRK won't be affected much with just 2880 coins x 0.8 = 2.3k (x 0.017 = just 39 BTC dump per day - and next year it will be -7%). LTC has 28800 x 0.016 = 460 BTC daily dump Tongue
2433  Local / Altcoins (Ελληνικά) / Re: Altcoins και anon-race on: June 27, 2014, 12:10:47 PM
Ναι υπήρχε πρόβλημα με τα transcations που αργούσαν να επαληθευθούν, αλλά αυτό διήρκεσε και περισσότερες μέρες, δεν νομίζω δηλαδή να ήταν ξεμπούκωμα με την έννοια που το αναφέρεις... Εν ολίγοις καταλαβαίνω τι εννοείς απλά νομίζω ότι δεν ήταν τόσο σοβαρό όσο λες, με την έννοια ότι αυτός ήταν ο κυρίαρχος λόγος του dump, το correction και το arbitrage, πάρα το fud.

Ηταν μεγαλος ο ογκος των XC που εφθασε "μαζεμενος" στο cryptsy για ξεφορτωμα (μαζι και τα δικα μου - τσεκαρισα τωρα το log των withdrawals μου στο mintpal και εκανε ~4 ωρες για να φθασουν στο cryptsy). H τιμη επεσε στο cryptsy απο 0.006 στο 0.004 πριν το twitter. Το ξερω γιατι εγω πουλησα με το που ειδα το post του chaeplin (πριν παει twitter) στο drk thread - και η τιμη ειχε ηδη πεσει αρκετα.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg7018975#msg7018975

(το ρολοϊ του twitter και του cryptsy ειναι αποσυγχρονισμενα - μαλλον σε αλλο time zone... το downtrend δεν ειναι μετα, ειναι πριν - και το spike ειναι με το twitter)

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F41P6FaX.png%3F1&t=541&c=WBnsfqSn5tIvsQ

Και εδω βλεπεις το downtrend απο πριν.

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Για το πόσο ήξερε τον κώδικα από πριν δεν το γνωρίζει κανείς, και έκανε όντως πολλές λάθος κινήσεις, το καλό είναι πως έχουμε πλέον ένα πολλά υποσχόμενο σταθερό νόμισμα με features που φαίνονται ρεαλιστικά, δηλαδή αν κάποιος είναι qualified να τα κάνει αυτός είναι ο Dan, αυτό δεν το αμφιβάλει κανείς πια, όχι ότι ήταν ο πρώτος ή ο τελευταίος qualified dev, αλλά το βιογραφικό του δίνει άλλο credibility στο νόμισμα όπως και να το κάνουμε. Συνεπώς ό,τι μλκία έγινε, έγινε, πλέον κοιτάμε μόνο μπροστά. Είδες το roadmap που ανακοινώθηκε? Ή το tor stick πριν από αυτό? Επίσης μη ξεχνάμε πως το team έχει πλέον και άλλα άτομα μέσα, τους PR και τον jasinlee(που από οτι καταλαβαίνω είναι πολυ καιρό στα πράγματα). Καλά και ο Dan snr member είναι εδώ μέσα, δεν είναι ότι ξαφνικά έσκασε μύτη!

Tor stick, blockchain 2.0, proof of blockchain κτλ ειναι λιγο "χαντρες" για ιθαγενεις. Περιμενω πιο ουσιαστικα πραγματα για να εντυπωσιαστω. Οσοι κινουν την αγορα αυτα τα βλεπουν ψιλο-διαφανα γι'αυτο και οσο self-hype να γινει σε ενα θρεντ, αν η αγορα δε δει οτι δεν υπαρχει potential => δε κινειται τιποτα. Αυτοι που βαζουν εκατομμυρια εχουν τεχνικους συμβουλους που τους εξηγουν τι παιζει (το παιχνιδι το ξερω απο μεσα γιατι τον τελευταιο μηνα μεγαλοι / whale επενδυτες με εχουν "χρησιμοποιησει" σ'αυτο το ρολο εχοντας σχετικη αγνοια του anon market). Δεν κινουνται απαραιτητα στα τυφλα με βαση τι υποσχεται ο καθε dev. Δλδ φαντασου, βγαινει ο dan πχ και βγαζει μια ανακοινωση. Παει ο επενδυτης στο συμβουλο και του λεει "για πες μου, τι παιζει μ'αυτο που ανακοινωθηκε?"... Κανει το viability assessment ο συμβουλος και του λεει "μαπα το καρπουζι" - "εχει potential" - "πολυ καλο", κτλ κτλ. Το ιδιο και για το DRK - πχ τι συμβαινει με τα forks, ειναι επιλυσιμο, τι παιζει με το soft fork. Αντιστοιχα και με τα bytecoin based clones... αν δλδ τραβανε για επενδυση ή οχι, τι αβεβαιοτητες υπαρχουν, τι προβληματα κτλ.

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Το όλο σκηνικό που αναφέρεις με το github, τον mindfox κτλ δεν είναι ανάγκη κάποιος να το δει μόνο αρνητικά. Για παράδειγμα, μπορεί ακριβώς επειδή ο Dan έχει την εμπειρία που έχει, και πιστεύει πάρα πολύ στη δουλειά του και στο ήδη υπάρχον υλικό του, να θέλει να το κρατήσει μακριά από τα αδιάκριτα μάτια, που πιθανόν να το πάρουν και να το πλασάρουν με πιο εφετζίδικο τρόπο στο scene, να του κλέψουν τη δουλειά του. Μη ξεχνάς ότι και ο mindfox μετά από λίγες μέρες ανακοίνωσε anon στο δικό του coin(δεν τον κατηγορώ εγώ, αλλά ακούστηκαν τα δικά μας τρολλάκια πια να τον θάβουν).

Ο dan, σ'εκεινη τη φαση, το μονο που ειχε ηταν ενα centralized+trusted mixer. Τι να του κλεψουν? Μεχρι και το ...pinkcoin εχει κεντρικο mixer. Το θεμα ειναι να κανεις trustless+decentralized υλοποιηση. Ολα τα υπολοιπα ειναι σκουπιδια απο τεχνολογικης αποψεως.

Το να scriptαρεις μια εντολη η οποια θα στελνει τα λεφτα στο κεντρικο mixer και το κεντρικο mixer θα χρησιμοποιει δικα του account για να πληρωνει τριτους, δεν ειναι καποια καινοτομια.

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Το κεντρικό μίξερ των παλιών revisions ήταν απλά ένα βήμα για να δείξει ότι όντως ξέρει τι κάνει, να μη μας αφήσει χωρίς update για 1 μήνα και χάσει τη δυναμική του το launch. Το rev1.5 είχε τόσες βελτιώσεις, και το REV2 στην ουσία αλλάζει τα πράγματα. Έλα 7/7 να το τεστάρεις και να ρίξεις μια ματιά.

Θα το τσεκαρω. Οταν τον ρωτησα μου ειχε υποσχεθει NSA-proof solution στο rev2.... Grin

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Εντάξει αυτό που λες για το τηλέφωνο είναι τουλάχιστον τραγικό όμως. Στο ίντερνετ είμαστε. Ο άλλος είναι εκεί, λέει αλήθεια, και δεν χρειάζεται να αποδείξει τίποτα.

Αυτος χανει οσο διατηρει το FUD. Αφου επιβεβαιωσε τη ταυτοτητα του online ποια η διαφορα να το κανει και με ενα τηλεφωνο ή καποια αλλη μεθοδο?

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1 μήνα εδώ πάντως δεν έχω δει κανένα άλλο coin να δέχεται τέτοια επίθεση, σε τόσα μέτωπα. Εγώ ακόμα και στις χειρότερες μέρες του, κράταγα coins ακριβώς για αυτό το λόγο!

Αν πας πιο παλια - αλλα και πιο προσφατα, το DRK εχει δεχτει τετοιο καταιγισμο που απλα δεν υπαρχει. Ειδικα απ'τον Απριλη και μετα η κατασταση εγινε ανυποφορη. Η διαφορα ειναι οτι το DRK ανεβηκε παρα το fudding / trolling απ'το 0.001 στο 0.028. Εδω μιλαμε ανοιγανε καθε μερα accounts να τρολαρουν ή να ανοιξουν θρεντς για το "darkcoin scam" κτλ. Ενας λεει με πληρωνουν απο ανταγωνιστικο coin... αλλος ελεγε αντε αρκετα τρολαραμε με αυτο το account, παω να κανω καινουριο  account - εχει ξεφυγει η κατασταση. Για fud με twitter και τετοια, το DRK τα εχει φαει με το κουταλι... tweets οτι δεν ειναι τοσο ανωνυμο, οτι εχει hidden premine σε συγκεκριμενο block (ενα απλο transaction ηταν, λολ) και αλλα κουφα. Πχ

https://twitter.com/Crypt0Trader/status/470881056347131904  <= αυτο 2 μερες πριν το "fud" -και καλα- στο XC... και αυτος ο crypt0trader ειναι scum... ο "δεν ξερω να διαβασω block explorer" (ή ξερω και κανω εσκεμμενο FUD κατα του DRK) και εκανε υποτιθεται "peer review" το XC Grin

Και μετα το πηραν fontas & gang για να σπρωξουν το DRK προς τα κατω:

https://twitter.com/FontasPumps/status/470947688070914048

...γι'αυτο σου λεω.
2434  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 11:25:13 AM
WTF? 13k diff @ ltc? Totally missed that... scrypt asics are having a party - so everyone is headed elsewhere.
2435  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: June 27, 2014, 06:50:27 AM
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Don't get me wrong

You've said everything malicious/negative that you could think of in just a few sentences. Instamine, devs scammers / incompetent, broken anon, masternode fail, centralization, pump & dump, etc etc. Obviously the market is idiots and you are the smart guy. Or...

Unfortunately this is the internet, and there are armies of trolls hiding behind computer screens saying garbage..don't bother listening to them....trust me I'm a troll myself  on these forums....

...so given your admission you can rest assured I'm not getting you the "wrong" way.
2436  Local / Altcoins (Ελληνικά) / Re: Altcoins και anon-race on: June 27, 2014, 06:29:31 AM
Κοίτα, δεν ξέρω αυτό που αναφέρεις από που το συμπεραίνεις, ή από που μπορεί κάποιος να το δει(σαν ιστορικό κάπου κάπως), αλλά επειδή:

1)Η όλη διαδικασία που περιγράφεις διήρκεσε 2-3 μέρες( το pump και το FUD/dump μαζί), δηλαδή από την αρχή του pump, μετά panic buy μέχρι και το τέλος της βουτιάς

2)Και το ακούω βλέπω πρώτη φορά αυτό εδώ που περιγράφεις

Η δυναμικη του pump ηταν μεχρι 0.003 - και μεχρι εκει ηταν real. To 0.006 spike ηταν επειδη κανεις δε μπορουσε να στειλει funds στα exchanges για να πουλησουν και το cryptsy αδειασε πρωτο. Ετσι οι αγορες στο mintpal το εφθασαν σχεδον 0.005 επειδη νομιζαν οι trader οτι θα αγορασουν στο mintpal με 0.003-4 και θα πουλανε στο cryptsy με 0.005+ (arbitrage). Αυτο που δεν ειχαν υπολογισει ηταν οτι κολλησε το blockchain γιατι δυσλειτουργουσε το staking / PoS. Transactions που επρεπε να γινονται σε λεπτα γινοντουσαν μετα απο 6-10 ωρες. Οταν αρχισαν να φθανουν τα λεφτα στο cryptsy ηταν περιπου μιση ωρα με τρια τεταρτα πριν το "fud". Αν ψαξεις στο θρεντ του XC (παιζει να ειναι και στο παλιο / πρωτο θρεντ - το unmoderated) η συζητηση υπαρχει με ολους οσους κλαιγονται για τα confirmations που δεν γινονται με τιποτα γιατι εβγαινε ενα block την ωρα και αν.

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Επίτρεψε μου να κρατήσω τις επιφυλάξεις μου, για τους δύο αυτούς λόγους. Όσον αφορά το 1, δε μπορώ να πιστέψω ότι το cryptsy αντιμετώπιζε τόσο μεγάλα προβλήματα επί δύο μέρες, για ένα coin. Το cryptsy είναι μεγάλο ανταλλακτήριο, εδώ στο bittrex να κλείσει ένα πορτοφόλι για maintenace, έχουνε πέσει 15 tweets και 5 φόρουμ ποστς στο 5λεπτο, και ξέρεις πως δεν είναι υπερβολικά τα νούμερα. Ακριβώς για αυτόν το λόγο έρχομαι στο 2, δηλαδή δεν γίνεται στον όλο να πανικό να μην βγήκαν όχι 15, όχι 10, αλλά 2 trollάκια να αναλύσουνε ακριβώς αυτό που λες. Έχω διαβάσει κάθε μα κάθε σελίδα του XC topic, από τον secure τον ίδιο μέχρι το τελευταίο τρολοaccount, αλλά αυτό το πράγμα δεν το έχω ξανακούσει...

Δεν ηταν θεμα cryptsy, ηταν θεμα blockchain... εβγαζε μπλοκ με το ντουφεκι - ειχε κολλησει. Δε γινεται να μην το εχεις διαβασει αν εχεις διαβασει ολο το θρεντ. Στρατιες διαμαρτυρονταν για το οτι το PoS πρεπει να επιδιορθωθει γιατι αλλιως το coin ειναι αχρηστο.


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Και σου λέω ότι έγινε έτσι ακριβώς όπως το λες. Και σου λέω πως όντως βρέθηκε αυτό που λες. ΤΙ σημασία έχει?

Εχει σημασια απ'την οπτικη του "scam detected". Οταν αρχιζουν και χτυπανε καμπανακια για κατι, λες μπας και δεν ειναι οπως μας τα λενε? (παντα πρεπει να το σκεφτεσαι ετσι εξ'αρχης - αλλα λεμε τωρα).

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Το νόμισμα δεν λειτουργεί?

Αν θυμασαι, σ'εκεινη τη φαση το μονο που ειχε να επιδειξει ηταν ενα κεντρικο mixer. Δλδ τα λεφτα σου πηγαιναν σε ενα node που ελεγχε ο dan και αυτο τα εστελνε αλλου. Σα λυση ηταν "καθρεφτακια και χαντρες" για να δικαιολογει marketcap 10mn. Για να καταλαβεις τετοια λυση εφαρμοσε το fedoracoin το φεβρουαριο και η αγορα το εθαψε γιατι ηταν αστεια. Αλλά με τα anon pumps & dumps ακομα και ενα κεντρικο mixer σημερα ειναι ..."ειδηση" για να παρει ενα coin 3000% επειδη εχει "working anon"... Αλλα τι λεμε? Εδω ανεβαινουν coins επειδη βγαζουν whitepapers Grin

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Η συζήτηση και οι διαπληκτισμοί δεν συνεχίστηκαν για άλλα θέματα πια?(rev 1.0 anon, xnodes κτλ). Και όντως, ούτε εγώ πιστεύω πως ο Dan τα έκανε όλα τέλεια, και σίγουρα δε κάθισε να απολογηθεί σε πράγματα που ίσως και να έπρεπε, μόνο και μόνο για να λάβουν ξεκάθαρες απαντήσεις άτομα που πραγματικά καιγόντουσαν(όχι trolls τύπου chaeplin).

Επρεπε εξ'αρχης να πει την αληθεια για καποια πραγματα, συμπεριλαμβανομενου του ρολου του loljosh. Προσωπικα εκτιμω οτι εγινε το εξης... ο Dan μπορει να ξερει προγραμματισμο αλλα δεν ειναι απαραιτητο οτι πρεπει να γνωριζει μεσα-εξω το codebase του bitcoin. Ουτε ο Evan το ηξερε - και ειχε ενα failed launch + ενα προβληματικο launch με low diff / instamine. Οπότε, πιστευω, ο αλλος προσελαβε τον loljosh για να κανει smooth launch. Αλλα επειδη δε μπορουσε να το παραδεχτει οτι ναι δεν εχω τοσο familiarity με τον κωδικα (γιατι τοτε θα του λεγανε "και πως θα βαλεις anon ρε καραμητρο αμα δε ξερεις πως δουλευει ο κωδικας του bitcoin?") το πηγε γυρω γυρω και ελεγε πιπες στυλ "ηθελα να μαθω τι κανει ο ανταγωνισμος" αχααχχααχ... ναι... ηθελε να το μαθει την ιδια μερα που εκανε launch το coin και φαινεται στο history με τα deals τους. Τεσπα νταξει, δεν ειναι ντροπη να μη ξερεις αλλα καταλαβαινω και το λογο για τον οποιο δεν το ειπε.

Επισης πιστευω ειναι η ελλειψη εξοικειωσης με τον κωδικα του bitcoin αυτο που τον εκανε να παει στην επιλογη χακαρισματος των wallets να στελνει το ενα στο αλλο coins (πολυ κακη "λυση"). Αυτο μπορει να το κανει καποιος ακομα και με script που λεει ο λογος. Αν αρχισει να εξοικειωνεται λιγο με τον κωδικα ισως δουμε καλυτερα πραγματα.

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Αλλά και πάλι, ακόμα σε αυτά που είπες να έχεις απόλυτο δίκιο, στη τελική, τι έγινε? Ο fedora code που βρέθηκε μέσα στο hub ήταν άσχετος, δεν σχετιζόταν με τη λειτουργία του νομίσματος, βγήκαν παλιά members και το παν, όχι ένας μόνο.

Προσεξε, στην αρχη βρεθηκε αρχειο και λεει το ανεβασα κατα λαθος. Μετα βρεθηκε και ο κωδικας στο main... ε δλδ νταξ, το ενα ψεμα πανω απ'το αλλο. Πραγματικα δε ξερω τι γυρευε εκει ο κωδικας - ακομα δε το χω καταλαβει. Δεν ειναι οτι θα προσεθετε λειτουργικοτητα.

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Αλλά ΑΚΟΜΑ και αυτό να είναι ψέμα, είδα με τα ίδια μου τα μάτια DKR holders να ζητάνε συγγνώμη για το FUD spread(όχι πολλοί, ένας, δύο, αλλά μου αρκούν) και επίσης είδα με τα ίδια μου τα μάτια άτομα σαν mindfox κ.αλ. να λένε από το peer review πως ο κώδικας είναι μια χαρά και unique.

Και εγω ειμουν σ'αυτους που ειπαν οτι δεν εχει καμμια δουλεια στο επισημο twitter αυτο που εγραψε ο internetape... αλλα με το περιεχομενο του post του chaeplin δεν εχω κανενα προβλημα γιατι quotαρισε ...github. Δεν εφηυρε κατι απ'το μυαλο του. Και αυτα περι οργανωμενης επιθεσης απ'το drk κτλ ειναι πιπες ολκης. Το βρηκε ο αλλος και το ποσταρε. Το βλεπει ο καραμητρος ο ape και το twitαρισε απ'το drk twitter... αυτος γενικα εχει ιστορικο να κανει χοντραδες (ειχαμε 3-4 incidents σε προηγουμενους μηνες) και γι'αυτο ζητησαν αρκετοι να μη twitαρει ΤΙΠΟΤΑ ασχετο.

Απο κει και περα μονο ο mindfox αξιζει απ'αυτους που εκαναν review. Ο cryptotrader ειναι twitter troll - εχει μηδενικο credibility. Εβγαζε fud tweets οτι υπηρχε λεει hidden mine block στο DRK και ηταν block με απλο transaction... ο τυπος ειναι τραγικος. Ο δε developer του cinni ειναι γνωστος pumper. Απλα δες τα ποστ που κανει στο xc thread για να pumpαρει. Αλλα αμα ειναι στο cinni που ειναι απ'τα μεγαλυτερα pumps & dumps τι να περιμενει κανεις.

Το ερωτημα ειναι ομως ΤΙ εκανε review o mindfox αφου το github σβηστηκε πολλαπλως. Αν το ιστορικο ηταν στη θεση του, ο κωδικας που ειναι copy/paste φαινεται - κανει κρα. Ασχετα αν δεν ειναι ο κωδικας που κανει το mixing. Αλλα γενικα η ολη συζητηση ηταν μουφα αφου το να φτιαξει καποιος ενα κεντρικο μιξερ δεν αποτελει καποιο τρομακτικο επιτευγμα.

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Οπότε έγιναν λάθος κινήσεις και παρεξηγήσεις? Σίγουρα. Έχουνε πλέον σημασία? Καμία! Σκέψου λίγο, το ΠΡΩΤΟ, πρώτο FUD που ακούστηκε ήταν πως ο atsecure ήταν και fake account! Στο linkedin!!! Πλέον έχουνε τη φάτσα του στη bitcoinbeltway μαζί με BlackCoin devs!

Εγω ειπα το εξης απλο... αφου υποτιθεται ξερουμε ποιος ειναι, γιατι δεν τον παιρνει καποιος ενα τηλεφωνο και να του πει "εισαι ο dan και φτιαχνεις το xc?". Ολο το fud θα λυνονταν επιτοπου. Και βγαινουν τα xc fanboys και μου λενε "αααα ουυυ προσωπικα δεδομενα" κτλ κτλ... κουφαθηκα... λεω συγνωμη, αν καποιος βρει το τηλεφωνο του σε ενα white pages και παρει να ρωτησει τι προσωπικα δεδομενα? Ας τον παρουν να δουμε οτι ειναι αυτος και δεν παιζει identity theft ή identity scam και να μπει ταφοπλακα στο speculation. Φαντασου οτι επρεπε να γινει η εκθεση/συνεδριο/τι ηταν -μετα απο τοσες βδομαδες- για να κανουν αυτο που επρεπε να εχει γινει εδω και >1 μηνα.
2437  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: June 27, 2014, 05:55:27 AM
Dark = market leader

Indisputibly so.  I consider dark to be shady, however.  I sold out of drk and moved to xmr for three primary reasons: (1) CN protocol allows me to actually control the size of my anonymity set, and I have confidence that the set will hold; not so drk.  (2) P&D/premine/ponzi factors are beyond my tolerance level in drk.  (3) Snake oil crypto claims raise my hackles.  I'm just not going to trust my life and treasure to drk' s protocols.  Great coin if you love forks, however.

I don't think anyone advocates xmr more strongly than I do.  I am taking my own medicine, and I don't want anyone else to get sick either.  It definitely benefits me if others adopt XMR, but I strongly believe that it will benefit them as well, as long as they don't own more than they can hold in strong hands.  

It isn't the leading coin with privacy claims, in terms of market cap.  It isn't the first cryptonote protocol coin.  It isn't the most user friendly coin by a nautical mile.  But it does have a balance of factors which convince me that it is the leading candidate to supply the net with private liquidity for years to come.  In areas where it is weak, it is good enough, and improving.  In areas where it is strong, it is distinguished from its competitors by the honesty and frankness of its development team, it's open-source ethos, its fair launch, its methodical, un-hyped progress, in a well-planned and prioritized process, and the size and growth of its hashing infrastructure.

I really do think that slow and steady can win this race.  It's already good enough for technically aware people to use, and it won't take long for it to be good enough for anyone who is comfortable with bitcoin today to use it.  How long it will take before it is suitable for mainstream use, I dare not venture -- years, I would say, since that is a very high bar of usability (think iPod).  But it has all it needs now to get there in due time.

Personally, I'm invested, to some degree or the other, in the whole anonymous market - so I don't have to worry so much about who wins and who doesn't. I'm well hedged so to speak.

There are fundamentals in place that I have analyzed in the DRK thread, with great precision - as to how the situation would evolve in terms of marketcaps and other anon coins that would join the party after DRK... That was ~4 months ago. The context of the discussion was about the need for marketing and promotion of DRK, where I said that the fundamentals of explosive growth in new markets will take care of everything - so no real need for promo/hype/spamming etc.

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The general crypto boom is over. Those who saw 8000%+ profits from BTC in < 2 years were the lucky few. Who we be the Levi Strauss of the crypto era - a man who started a small business selling new-fanged denim jeans to the gold miners back in '49. Perhaps you've heard Levi's?

I think cryptos in general have a lot of potential. I mean most people don't even know what Bitcoin is, let alone altcoins. And, if you factor in that around three quarters of the planet live in countries with high inflation rate (not EUR, GBP, USD etc - which of course are inflated too but to a lesser degree), cryptos could be a nice alternative to the national currency - and much more convenient than gold for trade purposes.

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DRK looks interesting enough, but whether or not it shoots up and outrageous amount to $20, or even $100 by next year is largely irrelevant,

Darkcoin is providing a second option vs the monopoly of transparency in which other coins are in. This means that if someone wants their crypto deposits / crypto transactions to be more private they'll have to move over to DRK. The transparent market is at 100% right now while the more-private market is at near 0%. In terms of "market growth potential" what will happen should be pretty easy to figure out.

With a market cap of ~8bn (BTC+other alts) to 3mn (DARKcoin), the prospect of capital flowing toward the DRK side is "significant". Even if one per cent of the "transparent" market moves to the more private market, we're talking about 80mn USD boost that is there to share for DRK or other anon coins which may follow - and they will not be necessarily mutually exclusive (one could practice transferring money through 2-3 anon coins, implementing different solutions, for extra safety / privacy). Needless to say what may happen if tax authorities start to crack down on BTC. The "just 1%" may suddenly become several % - with a corresponding boost in value of the private coins.

I mean, from a market perspective, and with such prospects being there, even if the anon market is shared by 2-3-5 different coins in the long run, this is a 9-digit to 10-digit market (xxx millions to billions) that they will share between them. Current market cap of a few million USD may seem like a joke by then. With such fundamentals, who needs hype, or pump and dumps?

The same applies today. The market cap of anon coins is nearly identical with my prediction, and it is dominated by DRK (>50%), Bytecoin & clones and Bitcoin-based pumps & dumps or coins that are ...trying. I also predict this 1% will gradually be extended towards the 10% mark - but that will be slower in comparison to the 1% (that should be obvious).

The only piece of the puzzle left, to diversify into, are zero-proof coins - which can come in and claim superiority against mixing practices in Bitcoin & Bytecoin.

I do have some ANCs from the times when DRK and ANC were the only anon coins in existence (zerocash wasn't an option back then), so my hedge against DRK was ANC by necessity. ANC has been very low in price (given the coins in circulation) and has promised zerocash integration in early July... if that hedge also manages to blow up in price, well, ...I'll be damned... Grin
2438  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Poloniex Has Rejected SuperCoin on: June 26, 2014, 10:54:31 PM
Supercoin has 1.4% the marketcap of Darkcoin atm... What is it again that darkcoin offers which supercoin doesn't or won't? Does darkcoin have decentralized anon yet? Has darkcoin revealed their code? Has darkcoin licensed their anon to other coins? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=635751.0 (this is all coming from a darkcoin holder, might I add..)

Darkcoin's method is trustless. XC and Supercoin's method aren't. As a Darkcoin holder you should know that.

=>

For this reason, in phase-1 we decided to develop a system that will depend on some sort of the trust, it is much easier to implement, and will give people the anonymous feature. This trust will be done through the dev team, or a credible mining pool.

read about supercoin phase 2, yet XC is worth so much. yet supercoin is being added to mintpal. going up

Supercoin phase 2, xc rev 2, etc, etc.

Right now, the situation is as it is.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good pump as much as anyone but let's not make technologies that have reversed Satoshi's brilliance (the invention of trustless transactions) into something "great". Trusted transactions are a regression compared to the Bitcoin protocol.
2439  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Poloniex Has Rejected SuperCoin on: June 26, 2014, 10:45:58 PM
Supercoin has 1.4% the marketcap of Darkcoin atm... What is it again that darkcoin offers which supercoin doesn't or won't? Does darkcoin have decentralized anon yet? Has darkcoin revealed their code? Has darkcoin licensed their anon to other coins? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=635751.0 (this is all coming from a darkcoin holder, might I add..)

Darkcoin's method is trustless. XC and Supercoin's method aren't. As a Darkcoin holder you should know that.

=>

For this reason, in phase-1 we decided to develop a system that will depend on some sort of the trust, it is much easier to implement, and will give people the anonymous feature. This trust will be done through the dev team, or a credible mining pool.
2440  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: June 26, 2014, 08:09:45 PM
Unfortunately some of the coins with
questionable pasts (e.g. Dark, Cryptcoin, etc.) might take off just on "name" along.

Dark = market leader, the coin that actually developed anonymous solutions when others were saying "the exchanges will ban you", "nobody needs anonymity", "good luck with your darkcoin name - it'll go nowhere", "the NSA will hunt you down", "it will be banned" and all type of idiotic stuff.

It cannot be compared with coins that are trailing in its wake (offering nothing btw - like Cryptcoin which right now has a ...whitepaper).

There is a reason why DRK is where it is and others are where they are:

This is a Quantum Reality, meaning thoughts interact with this world. But more importantly, visions interact with this world in a more potent way. A man with a vision can move mountains. But it's all related to the basic intent of the vision. Nothing happens here by accident, no matter what Evan has said - because even his quotes are contradictory on occasion, so you'll either go with one or the other.

Evan's vision, stated since the start, was to make a top altcoin that could even give Bitcoin a run for its money.

We're building XCoin into a moderately-anonymous network, where the transactions are sent encrypted and only able to be read the party who is receiving the funds. Blocks will be published via CoinJoin as to ensure some amount of anonymity. This is being built in such a way to compete with the other top alt-coins and maybe even Bitcoin. 

My goal with Darkcoin has always been to take the #2 spot from Litecoin.

...and this vision is gradually being build up four-five months along the way. The whole chain of top altcoins is being catalyzed by DRK's ascent and Litecoin has lost half its value and gaining downward momentum as even the multi-thousand BTC walls were unable to preserve its price >0.017. The battle of Dark vs Lite is on. At the same time, ripples have been made in the altcoin world due to DRK and the pursuit of anonymity.

The main "vision" and intent of coins that are trying to cash-in in the wake of Dark, is like this: "We can also make an anonymous coin / or promised anon coin and get some share of the pie / get some cash". Some by offering something, some by going the scam way in which the dev runs with the money straight away. But these coins will always be limited by the vision of their creator which was to be small-time players that are just going to take some part of the slice. Nobody has a larger vision and this lack of vision is what will forever hinder their project in ways that they cannot fathom or calculate. I could analyze that one further on how the lack of vision has affected other anon cryptocurrencies in their deficiencies but it would be perceived as an attack to them, so I won't.
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