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261  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 21, 2018, 08:48:25 PM
Natural measles is good, provided the people who get it are cared for well. What is proper care? Good resting time with good hygiene and nutrition. Why is measles good? It does a better job of vaccinating than vaccines do... without the deadly after effects. Properly cared for chicken pocks does the same.

Neither of these is deadly when proper care is used with them. And they don't produce the bad after effects of vaccines, yet do a job similar to the one expected from vaccines.


In this my friend despite being correct on other topics you are wrong. Measles infection does indeed grant better immunity to measles then the vaccine. However, if one had to choose between getting vaccinated or a certain exposure to measles the vaccination is by far the wiser course. Avoiding vaccination is only logical if your chance of exposure to measles is low.

The best situation would be if everyone had no immunity to measles at all because measles like smallpox was dead. That outcome is within our power to accomplish.

If I were to argue this from a spiritual perspective it would be as follows:

Measles is not good or evil in itself it is simply a part of nature a parasite that lives off of a host. However, allowing measles to continue to infect humans is evil because it saps our strength dragging us away from the spiritual the good and back into the muck of the the material world and mere survival. It usually weakens us and rarely kills us and the best that can come of such a battle is that we don't die.

Humanity has been given dominion over the earth and with that dominion comes the responsibility to address evils that interfere with our spiritual development. Thus it is ethical to kill diseases like smallpox and measles and we have a duty to do everything in our power to vanquish them. Neglecting that responsibility is to let evil exist unopposed and is wrong.

This does not mean everyone needs to be vaccinated, but if we choose not to it must be with the ultimate aim of eliminating the evil via some other means.

262  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 21, 2018, 07:57:29 PM

Vaccinating in advance for no reason, when there is no sign of a major problem, is dangerous and stupid.

Proper hygiene and proper nutrition in a nation make it so that vaccination is not need.

If vaccination is used, the right kind of nutrition is doubly needed, to wash the contaminants from the bodies of those who have been vaccinated, and to rebuild their immune systems.

Cool

Your first argument is correct but your second is much weaker.

Vaccination in advance for no reason is indeed stupid but if you don't do it you will need to spend massive amounts of money on the infrastructure needed to tackle outbreaks. Without routine vaccinations for everyone you would need your society to do the following.

1) Have massive stockpiles of vaccine ready to be deployed at a moment's notice.

2) Have and maintain a sufficiently robust enough health care system to rapidly detect outbreaks with the ability to actually administer those vaccines to hundreds of thousands at a moments notice.

3) Institute automatic and prolonged quarantine of anyone who arrives from a foreign country that is not completely clear of disease for up up to a few weeks. These passengers would also need to be almost totally isolated. They cannot be mixed with newer arrivals from foreign countries nor with people who got there earlier a week or two earlier and are about to be released. Alternatively you could make vaccination a prerequisite for traveling to or from countries where the disease has not been eliminated.

4) Have complete control of your boarders dropping your rate of illegal immigration to very low numbers.

Proper hygiene and nutrition will not stop a respiratory disease like measles from spreading like wildfire through a vulnerable population even if that population is in good health with good nutrition. The Amish outbreak a few years ago offers a textbook case of what that looks like. One Amish missionary came back unknowingly with measles to their mostly unvaccinated community leading to 377 cases before the outbreak was contained partially by willingness of that highly ordered community to obey voluntary quarantines and partly by the rapid vaccination of that community.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/18/amish-countrys-forgotten-measles-outbreak.html

Fortunately no one died in that outbreak which is consistent with the reported 0.2% mortality rate in healthy individuals in the first world but some people came near death. Here is a firsthand account from an Amish girl.

Quote
Those who were exposed, like Yoder’s cousin Mary Nisley, were put in a 21-day quarantine. She and her siblings didn’t contract the disease, but she watched uncles, aunts and cousins become ill. “People were sick. Very, very sick. Four of my cousins were taken to the hospital. A couple of babies were taken. Some people lost about 20 pounds,” she said.
...
hundreds of people lined up at Ivan Miller’s business, Mohican Wood Products, to be vaccinated during the height of the outbreak.

It would take billions of dollars, great political will, a population willing to obey quarantines when necessary, and a health care system comprehensive and smart enough to rapidly detect outbreaks in order to successfully shift to a reactionary approach to disease outbreaks instead of a population wide vaccination campaign. Should we do it? Very possibly yes but to know the answer for sure we would need to really know how harmful these vaccines are which we don't because our science is dishonest. We would also need a society ordered enough to accomplish the task. In the USA that seems potentially feasible. In Africa right now not so much.
263  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Mad Dog Mattis Resigns - Trumps replacement? on: December 21, 2018, 07:00:27 PM
Watching the MSM say the wheels are coming off the bus and there are no more adults in the room for the 701st time is a little funny.  

The MSM is rapidly losing any credibility it has left. For example take the New York Times editorial board.

January 19, 2018:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/opinion/editorials/syria-war-trump.html

Quote
As a candidate, Donald Trump warned against foreign wars, not least in Syria. A year into his presidency, he is adding Syria to a list of open-ended conflicts that already includes Afghanistan and Iraq.



As of last month, there were about 2,000 American troops in Syria — up from 500 a year ago — a mix of engineering units and Special Operations units that fight and train with local militias in the battle against the Islamic State. Now that we know they will be there indefinitely, who can say the number won’t go higher and the mission won’t creep more?

Syria is a complex problem. But this plan seems poorly conceived, too dependent on military action and fueled by wishful thinking.



But the goals in Syria are so sweeping they may be unattainable, thus leaving American troops there in perpetuity.


Then look at the exact same editorial board 11 months later. The MSM is oozing hypocrisy.

December 19, 2018:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/opinion/editorials/trump-syria-withdrawal.html

Quote
On Wednesday, Mr. Trump summarily overruled Mr. Bolton and the rest of his national security team. He ordered the withdrawal of all 2,000 American ground troops from Syria within 30 days.

That abrupt and dangerous decision, detached from any broader strategic context or any public rationale, sowed new uncertainty about America’s commitment to the Middle East, its willingness to be a global leader and Mr. Trump’s role as commander in chief.



An American withdrawal would also be a gift to Vladimir Putin, the Russian leader, who has been working hard to supplant American influence in the region and who, on Thursday, enthusiastically welcomed the decision, saying, “Donald’s right.” Another beneficiary is Iran, which has also expanded its regional footprint. It would certainly make it harder for the Trump administration to implement its policy of ratcheting up what it calls “maximum pressure” on Iran.

264  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Tucker Carlson: The Left Fears Trumps Wall Because They Know it Will Work? on: December 21, 2018, 06:39:13 PM
I donated my $100 to the build the wall fund.

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

12.5 Million raised in 4 days not too bad. Sends a message and helps a little if nothing else.
265  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 21, 2018, 01:12:18 AM
Like, how much more info do you need to see that vaccines have been one of the scourges of the world for decades, now.


Healthy Triplets All Autistic within Hours of Vaccination


Video.

Cool


Very sad story. No reason to doubt it's not true either especially if the vaccine lot was pulled off the market for a fatality. Something probably went badly wrong with that lot of vaccine. How often does that happen? I don't know but probably more often then we think.

Here are some other data points to consider.

Post Measles Encephalitis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODkx89hUZQw

Measles outbreak in Guinea threatens children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcHTUg-FY7A

The fatality rate of Measles is only 0.2% in healthy well fed people with access to good medical care. In malnourished children without access to supportive care it is much higher.

The question before us is not are vaccines harmful? Yes they in themselves most definitively are.  
The question is are they worth it?

For an individual the short term answer depends on his risk of contracting Measles but if everyone uses that logic the disease will never die simply wax and wane in intensity over time.

Similarly for the individual who falsely believes vaccines are harmless the disease will also never die for they will have no motivation undertake the necessary efforts to truly kill the disease. It will fester on in the periphery of society.

Both approaches fail. That is why we need to return to truth. Truth in the short run leads to the resurgence of disease as people will become fully aware of risks, however, in the long run it will set the stage for the extinction of these disease as the proper effort will be directed both towards identifying and minimizing vaccine risk and towards disease elimination.

It is one thing to ask a man to risk his health and the health of his children to forever kill a horrific disease and free all future humanity from it's tyranny. It is something else entirely to try an achieve that goal by hiding the risks from him, forcing his family to comply, and denying you caused the problem when he is one of the unfortunate one's who suffer terribly as a result. The latter approach is all the more wrong in that it fails in it's actual goal. We have not eliminated any diseases from the planet in the last 40 years. Our failure is nothing short of monumental.
266  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 20, 2018, 09:53:29 PM

Yes, you are absolutely right. This is basically like the ''The trolley dilemma'' where you basically have two options, kill 1 guy or kill 5 people, of course people will chose killing 1 person instead of 5 even though you don't want to kill anyone because, well, that's the best choice. It's the same in real life, unfortunately we cannot save everyone and it's not because pharma and other companies are doing it on purpose. (At least not most of the times)


Your underlined statement highlights the fear that drives the anti-vaccine movement. Its a fear that is not entirely unreasonable. How do we know they are not doing it on purpose say for population reduction or elimination of undesirables? Why won't the powerful someday use this forced vector to impose their vision on the rest of us?

Yes this is conspiracy theory and no I don't believe this is currently happening but how to we know it is not happening?

The answer is that such an action would be evil and we trust that honest scientists and vaccine makers would never do such a horrific thing and that if they did other honest scientists would expose them.

But what happens when the vaccine makers and scientists have demonstrated that they are no longer trustworthy? What happens when they have been caught hiding the unpleasant findings of vaccine effects. Well then there is no trust and many choose to reject vaccines.

I sympathize with the anti-vaccine crowd. Their's is something of a rebellion against the corruption of the sciences and the abandonment of truth in favor of expediency. I think they have the wrong answer. I think the correct answer is that we should return to honesty we should fully disclose everything possible and do honest studies that address the fears of those worried about vaccines. My suspicion is that the truth will motivate us to actually eliminate these horrible pathogens.

Our situation is probably much worse then that of the poor soul placed in the position where he can redirect the train so it will kill one or leave it on it's course where it kills five. Our situation is probably much closer that of the poor man who has just made that awful choice killed the one to save the five. He then sits back and relaxes confident he has the solution to such problems unworried that there are a series of identical forks coming up over the next few miles with similar numbers of people on them.

No need work hard and figure out a way to stop the train or get people off the tracks altogether. We already have our solution.
267  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 20, 2018, 07:06:19 PM
The article says that the medical has been lying about the autism vaccine dangers for at least 14 years, but this is just the tiny tip of the iceberg of medical lies, both about vaccines and other medicine. If you search for it, you will find that chemo has killed more people than cancer has.


Scientific voices speak out unequivocally about vaccines and their dangers



Now that it’s been exposed that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has been lying about the connection between vaccines and autism for at least 14 years, many prominent doctors and health practitioners are now coming forward to corroborate the fact that vaccines are, in fact, harming children.

Dr. Kenneth Aitken, M.D., a child psychologist from Great Britain, recently told The Telegraph that he’s seen autism rates increase in conjunction with the MMR vaccine for measles, mumps, and rubella.

“When I was in training, one in 2,500 (children were autistic),” Dr. Aitken told the U.K. paper. “Now, it is one in 250. At the moment, the only logical explanation is MMR.”

Dr. Jane Orient, M.D., executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons and professor of clinical medicine at the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, has expressed similar feelings on the subject.


Read the whole article. It's quite interesting, with links included.


Cool


Again this is what comes from dishonesty people lose trust. However, even if we assume the worst case scenario the situation is not so clear. Without the light of honesty everyone is blind.

Lets assume for a moment that the authors suspicion in this case are entirely correct at the MMR vaccine alone has causes autism at a rate of 1 in 250. Now it could be much much lower then that. There are a lot of other toxins that have crept into the western diet particularly pesticides that could be contributing to something like this. There is also an increase in diagnosis motivated by government benefits. For example many children today who are diagnosed today with ADHD for example would have be considered rambunctious boys in the past.

However, for the sake of this discussion lets assume MMR alone causes autism in 1 in 250. We then have to compare that harm to the benefit of suppressing the disease. Without MMR almost everyone would be exposed to Measles Mumps and Rubella at some point in their lives. Measles for example is spread via respiration and has close to a 90% transmission rate to other household members living in the same home.

Measles with current first world medicine has a fatality rate of 0.2%. One in 500 would die if this disease was allowed to rampage unchecked through the population. There is no nutritional cure for viral diseases. Only the majestic workings of the immune system can do that. Things like vitamin C can help the immune system function slightly better especially if an individual is deficient in the necessary vitamin but it is no cure. With a terrible disease like Measles the immune system steps up and does an excellent job. With good nutrition and modern supportive care IV fluids and the like the immune system succeeds 499 out of 500 times 0.2% of the time it fails mostly in young children.  

So now we are comparing 1 in 250 with childhood autism to 1 in 500 dead children. You could argue that maybe the vaccines do other things. Maybe they cause autoimmune disorders, maybe they cause allergies. However, you have to contrast that to the damage of Mumps and Rubella which we have not yet tallied as well as the disabilities that would result from the people who almost died from Measles and suffered some form of organ or brain injury as a result.

The ethical picture is not so clear. This is what comes from working in the dark. When people in power think the masses are too ignorant to kept informed. It is the logical result the erroneous belief that the ends justify the means.

The best course of action at this point given the very real fear of these vaccines is to conduct a large randomized controlled trial in a first world country where these disease are mostly gone. Then the true results and health effects of vaccinated versus vaccinated children could be examined. The raw data should be released to the pubic not just the analysis. Then we could all know and not guess at the harm done. Trust in the scientific community would be somewhat restored. The probable result of this would be somewhere in between the two extremes. Vaccines are probably not nearly as harmful as the anti-vaccine advocates fear but they are probably far more harmful then is commonly believed.

For my own part I have vaccinated my children against the horrible diseases with a high mortality rate. They have been vaccinated against MMR for example. However, I refuse the childhood vaccinations for the less deadly diseases such as the flu as well as those that diseases that can be avoided by behavioral modifications like HPV.  

When I vaccinate my children, however, I rage internally that I live in a society so dishonest that it is not even willing to seriously address either the topic of vaccine danger or even worse undertake seriously the task of exterminating these diseases. Its been 40 years now since we have eliminated one of these deadly disease despite having the technology to do so for generations. That fact more then any other in the entire discussion is symbolic of the rot in our world.

268  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 20, 2018, 02:43:18 AM

Of course, like with everything, there are side effects and they are not 100% safe. People here, however, seem to think that they are being made on purpose like that, to kill us or to make us sick which is delusional. They also don't believe vaccines stopped smallpox or anything ever.

Well, it is on purpose. They would make them safe if they didn't want to harm people. Of course, the only way to do that is to stop using them altogether.

Cool

I don't agree.

Vaccines can never be made totally safe. You cannot activate the immune system without running risks.
They could potentially be made safer if we prioritized it but the best possible outcome is risk minimization and disease elimination so the vaccines become unnecessary.

Take measles the risk of death among those infected is usually 0.2% with modern medicine, Most of those who die from the infection are less than five years old. If we did not vaccinate against this it would be endemic everyone would be exposed to it most often in early childhood. One in every five hundred would die from it. That coupled with the suffering of the disease itself far exceeds whatever harm the vaccine causes.

Measles is an ideal target for elimination it is:

* A specifically human disease, with no animal reservoir.
* An acute, self-limiting disease, infectious for others for only about a week..
* Has method of intervention (vaccination) that works; elimination has been achieved manu countries as a result of immunization.

Even if you think the measles vaccine is worse then endemic measles which is doubtful the risks of the vaccines is or should be of a finite limited duration until said disease is eradicated.

I admit the case is much weaker for things like the annual flu vaccine.

269  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 19, 2018, 07:08:06 PM

Yeah probably but it's a slippery slope. If they come out and say vaccines aren't 100% safe and there is a chance your kid will get something undesirable, A LOT more parents will stop vaccinating their kids which will lead to really bad consequences in the future.

Here you are incorrect. Institutionalized falsehood always in the long run leads to worse outcomes then truth. Your logic is understandable. Indeed its probably the very logic the scientist in TECSHARE article used when he falsified his research. It is also wrong.

The problem with lying is that there are always unanticipated side effects. By giving the general impression that any disease for which we have a vaccine is effectively cured as well as the false idea that vaccines do no harm leads to the following bad outcomes.

1) We become apathetic about actually eliminating the disease. We have only wiped out only one disease in history and that was decades ago. That is pathetic given our level of technological development. Measles, Rubella, Hepatitis B, Polio, ect are all diseases with no animal reservoir and a viable vaccine. There is no logical reason that these diseases should not all be extinct within 15 years. Then we would never need to consider taking a vaccine for it again. However, no one cares anymore because they view it as someone else's problem. They have had their "safe" vaccine why bother.

2) Lies are always exposed. Once they are what chance do you have of wiping out disease then? Do you really think primitive uneducated people will trust you and take their vaccines even when it is their interest to do so once the vaccination proponent has been exposed as a liar and caught minimizing the dangers of his vaccine?

3) Vaccine's work but have rare catastrophic outcomes, the heavy metal preservatives used in some of them are also probably cumulatively toxic with some preservatives worse then others. These are risks that can be minimized and mitigated if we prioritized doing so. We don't prioritize risk reduction when we deny the risk exists.

In the long run falsehood is far more destructive then truth.

If we are honest and fully disclose everything about vaccines yes there would be many who would initially refused to take them relying on others and hoping to hide in the herd immunity. It would even probably lead to disease outbreaks among the unvaccinated in first world countries. However, in the long run it will set the stage for the true elimination of these pathogens.
270  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 19, 2018, 01:26:44 PM

Of course, like with everything, there are side effects and they are not 100% safe. People here, however, seem to think that they are being made on purpose like that, to kill us or to make us sick which is delusional. They also don't believe vaccines stopped smallpox or anything ever.

They believe those things because their is no genuine attempt made to clearly delineate the level of harm vaccines cause.

This information is hidden or never researched as the unwashed masses are deemed too irrational or immoral to handle it. So a minority assumes the worst which is understandable.

The only long term solution is total transparency.
271  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? on: December 19, 2018, 12:35:21 PM
https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/12/10/cdc-possibility-that-vaccines-rarely-trigger-autism/

Interesting quote from CDC official. CDC: “Possibility” that vaccines rarely trigger autism. Sounds like the usual slow walk they do when they know they are facing massive liabilities.

Vaccines are a tricky issue.
They have been sold as harmless which is a lie.

Ramping up and priming the immune system is never a zero risk affair.
That process is akin to the functional equivalent of emergently deploying your armed forces to a war zone only to find the enemy tied up and helpless.

Most of the time things work out ok. Sometimes not so much. In rare circumstances the tied up invaders might get free somehow and then you have a real war. Sometimes the deployed army goes rogue and starts attacking civilians. The odds are low but not zero. Another potential issue is the metal preservatives used in vaccines to prevent bacterial growth especially in the multi dose vials they sometimes use in the cheeper flu vaccines.

However, the benefits of vaccination are gargantuan. The elimination of smallpox was a true  triumph of modern medicine and its success also means we no longer need to take the smallpox vaccine. It should be possible to repeat that achievement with polio.

The problem arises from a lack of honesty. We are almost certainly better off vaccinating against the nastier of the diseases until we can figure out how to eliminate them. The powers that be seem to fear that if a genuine discussion of this topic is allowed to occur.

1) People being unable to rationally understand risks will improperly evaluate low probability adverse events and refuse vaccines even when it is in their best interest to get them.
2) People will opt to rely on herd immunity choosing to let others assume the burden. If enough people do this it will lead to peroidic outbreaks of disease.

These fears are not entirely unjustified. However, our dishonesty about the issue also prevents rational cost/benefit decisions about vaccines especially vaccines for less dangerous things like the flu or disease that can be minimized via other lifestyle factors such as HPV. Dishonesty blinds the rational as well as the irrational.
272  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Is banning weapons such a good thing? on: December 19, 2018, 10:37:02 AM
My country has weapons banned. Its also the country with the highest violent (by guns) death rate per capita of the hemisphere. Only state armed forces are legally allowed to have weapons (it used to be possible to obtain a permit for civilians a couple of decades ago, now void).

Where do criminals get weapons and ammo now? From the black market and... said state forces either by corruption or by killing them.

...

My sympathies to your and your unfortunate countrymen.

Disarming the population leaves it helpless against government tyranny.
Those who support such things are either useful idiots or groups who wish to force their "vision" on others without worrying about the possibility of revolt.

The following article should be is required reading for the useful idiots.

Venezuelans regret gun ban, 'a declaration of war against an unarmed population'
https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezuelans-regret-gun-prohibition-we-could-have-defended-ourselves.amp
273  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: December 19, 2018, 10:15:11 AM

Parents' Religious Beliefs May Affect Kids' Suicide Risk: Study
https://consumer.healthday.com/public-health-information-30/religion-health-news-577/parents-religious-beliefs-may-affect-kids-suicide-risk-study-736578.html
Quote from: Steven Reinberg
Teens, especially girls, whose parents are religious may be less likely to die by suicide, no matter how they feel about religion themselves, new research suggests.

The lower suicide risk among those raised in a religious home is independent of other common risk factors, including whether parents suffered from depression, showed suicidal behavior or divorced, the Columbia University researchers said.
...
About 12 percent of American teens say they have had suicidal thoughts. And suicide is the leading cause of death among 15- to 19-year-old girls.

For the study, Priya Wickramaratne and colleagues examined data from a three-generation study at New York State Psychiatric Institute and Columbia University. The data, spanning 30 years, included 214 children from 112 families.

Most belonged to Christian denominations and some families lived in areas with limited church choices. All were white.

Among teens who thought religion was important, researchers found a lower risk for suicide among girls but not boys. Researchers saw the same association with church attendance.

When parent and child views were weighed together, however, researchers found a lower risk for suicide among young people whose parents considered religion important.

Wickramaratne, an associate professor of biostatistics and psychiatry at Columbia University, said, "Our findings suggest that there may be alternative and additional ways to help children and adolescents at highest risk for suicidal behaviors."

She said those strategies include asking parents about their spiritual history when a child is brought in for psychiatric evaluation, and assessing the child's own religious beliefs and practices -- especially with girls.
274  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: December 19, 2018, 10:01:05 AM


10 reasons not to give your child – or teen – a smartphone
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/10-reasons-not-to-give-your-child-or-teen-a-smartphone

Quote from: Jonathon van Maren
December 18, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – The responses to my column last week detailing the horrific story of a boy who engaged in porn-inspired sexual molestation of his young nieces after accessing porn on his iPhone have indicated once again that many parents simply do not want to recognize the dangers that smartphones pose to their children.

Over and over again, commenters made genuinely stupid and ill-thought-out assertions, such as “You must be a Luddite!” Obviously, one does not have to be opposed to technology to recognize the dangers of some devices. We all agree that children should not drive cars, because it is not safe. We are not anti-car just because we do not think everyone should be able to drive them at a young age.

Additionally, many people seemed unaware of the fact that pornography has mainstreamed sexual violence, and that the vast majority of young people access porn on their cell phones. These are unfortunate realities, and I could tell you hundreds of stories of children accessing porn on phones at incredibly young ages, often impacting their lives for years into the future.

I could provide you with 20, but for today, here are just 10 reasons you shouldn’t give your child a smartphone:

1. Many parents harbor the mistaken belief that once their children have a smartphone, they can still control their behavior. In reality, it is nearly impossible to completely lock down a device (although there are very important steps that can be taken), and 71 percent of teens hide their smartphone activity from their parents. I’ve had many parents tell me how relieved they are that their children haven’t ended up hooked on porn or involved in “that stuff,” knowing full well that their children have been involved.

2. As Vanity Fair journalist Nancy Jo Sales laid out in her devastating book American Girls: Social Media and the Secret Lives of Teenagers, sexting and sending nude selfies are now ubiquitous in every school from the big cities to the rural Bible belt. I interviewed a number of high school girls (from Christian schools) on this issue over the past several years, and every one of them said the same thing: The pressure to send photos is relentless. Giving your child a smartphone is providing the opportunity for that pressure to be applied. Many give in. Lives are ruined as a result. The photos are forever.

3. The average age a child first looks at porn is now age 11. (The youngest porn addict I ever met was homeschooled.) Providing children a device that, regardless of how hard you try to implement oversight or lock the device down (which is impossible to do completely), you are handing them a portal to the totality of human sexual depravity as it exists online. The majority of young people now view pornography, boys and girls. The majority of them have seen things (grotesque sexual violence among other things) that previous generations could not have imagined. To give them this opportunity and this temptation at an age when we would not trust them with the right to vote, drink, smoke, or drive makes no rational sense and is arguably more dangerous.

4. Most children are exposed to sexual violence via pornography via smartphones. As I mentioned in my previous columns, experts are increasingly noticing that children are trying what they see in porn on other children, with tens of thousands of cases in the U.K. of child-on-child sexual abuse being investigated, and healthcare professionals in the United States sounding the alarm.

5. Our society still has not figured out how to control these technologies. In fact, the very Silicon experts who create these devices and these screens warn that they are a “dark influence” on children and either do not provide their own children smartphones at all, or they strictly limit the amount of time they may be on one. If those who develop smartphones are saying that they are dangerous for young people, perhaps we should be listening more closely.

6. Porn companies are actively trying to get children to look at pornography. Some have tagged hardcore porn content with phrases like “Dora the Explorer,” for example, in order to get kids to stumble on to their material. Your child may not be looking for porn. Porn is certainly looking for your child.

7. The porn companies have quite literally re-digitized their content in order to make it more accessible on a smartphone. They know that the vast majority of young people will not be viewing their material on laptops or desktops or TVs anymore. Most young people are viewing porn on their smartphones, in their bedrooms. If parents have restricted Wi-fi, it is easy these days to find free Wi-fi almost anywhere. So while you may be convinced that your child/teen can withstand the relentless sexual temptation of having access to pornography, the porn companies are quite certain that they can win this fight.

8. Smartphones provide children the first environment in history that exists without any oversight by any adult whatsoever. The reason cyber-bullying is so effective and so dangerous is the fact that social media has created an alternative world, inhabited by young people and their peers and inaccessible to parents and guardians. A generation ago, the bullying would stop when you got home from school. Today, you can be bullied at home, in your bedroom. In fact, a spate of suicides resulting from cyber-bullying tell that precise story.

9. Children do not need smartphones. They think they do, of course, because they want access to social media and the Internet. Who wouldn’t want access to something that can answer any and all of their questions? But considering the tremendous power of this tool, it is incredibly naïve to think that children and young teens are mature enough to handle it when the impact of smartphones on adults (and the skyrocketing rates of tech addiction) indicates that we have not even been able to figure out how to use this technology responsibly. If they need a phone for calling and texting purposes, get them a device without Internet access.

10. Smartphones often eliminate a child’s interest in other, healthier activities – like reading, outdoor recreation, and family time. I’m sure it comes as no surprise to anyone who has given their child a smartphone that a smartphone rapidly becomes an enormous part of the child’s life. This, of course, was predictable: There is a reason they begged so hard to have one in the first place.
275  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: December 19, 2018, 01:43:19 AM
"When asked how he would respond to there being a Next Life, and being asked By God why he did not believe, the famed intellectual, Sidney Hook, replied: "God, you didn't give me enough evidence". And there, sir, is an end on it."

The Great Divorce: The Intellectual
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10vnY-YR2JI
276  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: December 18, 2018, 05:38:27 PM
Take care.

Goodbye af_newbie
277  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: December 18, 2018, 05:09:06 PM

And that is the fundamental difference between us.  I care about what I believe is actually true.  That is why I accept objective evidence to validate my worldview.  You don't.  You feel that some (fundamental) aspects of your worldview can be accepted without evidence and assumed to be correct and true.

If you don't require evidence you can pretty much come up with whatever irrational belief system your mind can dream up.

Sleep on it, eventually it will sink in.

You deny the existence of anything objective at all. You trust only your senses but have no grounding upon which to trust even those. Your reject the acccmulated wisdom of centuries to return to a relativism and skepticism that was embraced and then rejected millennium ago yet consider yourself an "enlightened man".

If you don't believe in truth then the "evidence" you find can be twisted into whatever conclusions you desire.

Sleep on it, eventually it will sink in.
278  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: December 18, 2018, 04:43:30 PM

I think I understand.  You think there is some inherent morality that is embedded in reality around us.

You don't know how to get to it, but you believe it is there and Jewish Bronze Age leaders had the wisdom to translate some of the objective morality for us.

In your view, the moral judgments that we pass (throughout history) are just erroneous interpretations of this objective morality. If we only knew what it was we would be behaving morally forever.

The problem for you is that there is no evidence that it is actually true.  On the contrary, morality is formed and shaped by the societies we live in.  I gave you plenty of examples of immoral actions that were based on Jewish moral law.


You now understand much of my position af_newbie. However, you are still holding onto a large misconception. You insist that this is a question of evidence. It is not. Here is how Kant explains it.

Categorical Imperative
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
Quote
The categorical imperative (German: kategorischer Imperativ) Introduced in Kant's 1785 Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals... may be defined as a way of evaluating motivations for action.

Sentient beings occupy a special place in creation, and morality can be summed up in an imperative, or ultimate commandment of reason, from which all duties and obligations derive. He defined an imperative as any proposition declaring a certain action (or inaction) to be necessary.

Hypothetical imperatives apply to someone who wishes to attain certain ends. For example:

* If I wish to quench my thirst, I must drink something.
* If I wish to pass this exam, I must study.

A categorical imperative, on the other hand, denotes an absolute, unconditional requirement that must be obeyed in all circumstances and is justified as an end in itself. It is best known in its first formulation:

Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.

The capacity that underlies deciding what is moral is called pure practical reason, which is contrasted with pure reason (the capacity to know without having been shown) and mere practical reason (which allows us to interact with the world in experience).  Hypothetical imperatives tell us which means best achieve our ends. They do not, however, tell us which ends we should choose. The typical dichotomy in choosing ends is between ends that are "right" (e.g., helping someone) and those that are "good" (e.g., enriching oneself). Kant considered the "right" superior to the "good"; to him, the "good" was morally irrelevant. In Kant's view, a person cannot decide whether conduct is "right," or moral, through empirical means. Such judgments must be reached a priori, using pure practical reason.

Reason, separate from all empirical experience, can determine the principle according to which all ends can be determined as moral. It is this fundamental principle of moral reason that is known as the categorical imperative
. Pure practical reason is the process of determining what ought to be done without reference to empirical contingent factors. Moral questions are determined independent of reference to the particular subject posing them. It is because morality is determined by pure practical reason, rather than particular empirical or sensuous factors, that morality is universally valid. This moral universalism has come to be seen as the distinctive aspect of Kant's moral philosophy and has had wide social impact in the legal and political concepts of human rights and equality.


Asking what the evidence shows you on this topic is nonsensical as this is not a question of evidence. Similarly stating that a particular society or individual is shaped by the rules of that society while certainly true is also irrelevant for such social contrivances also have no bearing on morality. The imperative is categorical.
279  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: December 18, 2018, 07:16:32 AM
C.S. Lewis describes the failure inherent and unavoidable in your approach.

The Poison of Subjectivism by C.S. Lewis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgcd6jvsCFs

The question remains where do you get the objective morality from.  
...
Morality changes over time, whether you like it or not.  


Morality does not change over time whether you see it or not.
...

Hmm, I think you are trolling me.  I see it, I am not sure why you don't.

Is it moral today to...

You see it because you have assumed it. You assume morality is subjective thus you interpret variations in human behavior as spontaneous meaningless variations of that subjectivity rather than an error filled progression towards objective truth.

We could discuss the morality of past times and criminal codes but you have left yourself no grounds to have such a discussion. You deny the existence of the very objective standard that we would need to judge those times.

I have tried to explain the toxicity of your view. I have highlighted how any philosophy that does not accept value as eternal and objective can lead only to ruin. At the very best it takes us to an utter tyranny of the opinion makers over all others. In all probability it takes us somewhere far worse then that.

You cannot see the danger and I appear to lack the eloquence or skill to open your eyes to the reality around you.

Thus our conversation reaches its natural conclusion.
 
280  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Love's last hope: Consensual non-monogamy on: December 18, 2018, 12:15:31 AM
Just like every other "novel bit of communism" you come up with, it's been tried before and failed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1926/07/the-russian-effort-to-abolish-marriage/306295/

Building society is more important than your feelings, more important than fucking, more important than your delusional Postmodernist dumpster fire of experimentation on society.


I think I have been spending too much time debating postmodernists, leftist, and communists of late. So much so that I am pleasently suprised to see actual wisdom on display. Like a breath of fresh air.

Here is Dennis Prager's take on this issue. His conclusion's are not different then the high quality replies merited above.

7. Do Not Commit Adultery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-epfgG7lI
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