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1241  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 09, 2017, 09:50:55 AM
I remember this one particular quote, just searched it, and yep, I heard it from House, MD.
Here:
You can't be angry with God and not believe in him at the same time. Sara B. Cooper, House

Pretty nice, right?

While logically one would think that would be the case this is another area where we often see irrational behavior.



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.
1242  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 09, 2017, 09:28:27 AM
...
If you want skilled labor, your best option is hire, just like pharaohs did in the same Egypt when they built their pyramids (and here you are obviously trying to get away by excessive extension of the concept).
...
I would prefer to stay with the narrow definition of slavery as chattel slavery

Deisik I agree that it is best to use clear terms. Under the the definition of chattel slavery my prior description of the structure of ancient Egypt was overly broad.

We do not know with certainty how much "chattel slave" labor went into the pyramids. The Greek historian Herodotus wrote in 450 B.C. that they were built by slaves but that was long while after their construction.  Some more recent archaeological evidence points to workers slightly higher up the social ladder.

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/01/12/egypt-new-find-shows-slaves-didnt-build-pyramids
Quote
Hawass said evidence from the site indicates that the approximately 10,000 laborers working on the pyramids ate 21 cattle and 23 sheep sent to them daily from farms.
...
The pyramid builders led a life of hard labor, said Adel Okasha, supervisor of the excavation. Their skeletons have signs of arthritis, and their lower vertebrae point to a life passed in difficulty, he said.

"Their bones tell us the story of how hard they worked," Okasha said.

Wildung said the find reinforces the notion that the pyramid builders were free men, ordinary citizens

"But let's not exaggerate here, they lived a short life and tomography skeletal studies show they suffered from bad health, very much likely because of how hard their work was."

All of this is largely irrelevant to our prior discussion and we should not lose sight of the forest for the trees. I agree with you that slavery is economically inefficient and attempting to train educated slaves is even more economically inefficient. Our disagreement (if any) are entirely over the fundamental nature of the forces that lead to the end of slavery.  

Your argument was that technological progress that helped end slavery and I also agree with that. However, technological progress is simply a function of applied knowledge.

If you want to argue that increased technology led to the end of slavery you must next examine the factors that allow knowledge to increase. In Knowledge, Entropy and Freedom I addressed what I believe to be the fundamental driver of knowledge creation.

Unfortunately due to time constraints I do not have time to continue this conversation further so I will give you the last word on the matter.
1243  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: January 09, 2017, 01:20:32 AM
You predicted BTC to crash to less than $100 by now. You predicted XMR was a nothing coin. Care to offer your thoughts now?

I have not really been following all iamnotbacks BTC predictions but I am aware of the following predictions.

On October 14th 2014 when the price was around $374 he predicted a sustained BTC decline to $150.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg9195517#msg9195517
It did not get there but it did decline and spiked down close to that on January 14th 2015.

He also more or less predicted a rally on Nov 7th when the price was $704. That has been accurate.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1669830.msg16769509#msg16769509

His predictions have not been perfect but overall he has been more accurate then most.
1244  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: January 09, 2017, 12:16:28 AM
I remember in college some of our friends would on occasion discuss "cosmic things".  One of my friends was a very smart electrical engineering student.  He had his own little theory (not fleshed out, but you'll get the idea):

That the universe when (if it) contracts and re-emerges changes various physical constants (Planck's Constant, the speed of light, gravitational force, etc.) might change too.  This would have all kinds of interesting knock-on affects (like life!).  My friend's notion, of course, cannot be proved.

But, can we really prove that the above three examples never change?

OROBTC I am among those who thinks your friend may be correct.


I have explained that we can't exist (the past and future will collapse) if there could exist an absolute truth...

Please review my archives for the recent posts explaining the science of what I have just written above. Perhaps CoinCube could quote for you all if he is interested, to prove he even understood what I had been writing lately (not sure if he does).

iamnotback you have not made the case that an absolute truth cannot exist though perhaps you made this argument somewhere I am not aware of. In your essay The Universe you instead made this claim.

"If the speed-of-light were infinite, the time domain (and thus reality) would collapse to a single point, because all future changes in configuration would occur instantly."


There are a minority of scientists who believe that this is the exact the condition of the universe at the start of the big bang.

Scientists Think the Speed of Light Has Slowed, and They're Trying to Prove It
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/light-speed-slowed
Quote
But in the late 1990s, a handful of physicists challenged one of the fundamental assumptions underlying Einstein’s theory of special relativity: Instead of the speed of light being constant, they proposed that light was faster in the early universe than it is now.

This theory of the variable speed of light was—and still is—controversial. But according to a new paper published in November in the physics journal Physical Review D, it could be experimentally tested in the near future. If the experiments validate the theory, it means that the laws of nature weren’t always the same as what we experience today and would require a serious revision of Einstein’s theory of gravity.

"The whole of physics is predicated on the constancy of the speed of light."
...
So just how much faster was light speed just after the Big Bang? According to Magueijo and his colleague Niayesh Afshordi, an associate professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Waterloo, the answer is “infinitely” faster.

The duo cite light speed as being at least 32 orders of magnitude faster than its currently accepted speed of 300 million meters per second—this is merely the lower bounds of the faster light speed, however. As you get closer to the Big Bang, the speed of light approaches infinity.

On this view, the speed of light was faster because the universe was incredibly hot at the beginning. According to Afshordi, their theory requires that the early universe was at least a toasty 1028 degrees Celsius (to put this in perspective, the highest temperature we are capable of realizing on Earth is about 1016 degrees Celsius, a full 12 orders of magnitude cooler).

As the universe expanded and cooled below this temperature, light underwent a phase shift—much like liquid water changes into ice once the temperature reaches a certain threshold—and arrived at the speed we know today: 300 million meters per second. Just like ice won’t get more "icy" the colder the temperature gets, the speed of light has not been slowing down since it reached 300 million meters per second.

If Magueijo and Afshordi’s theory of variable light speed is correct, then the speed of light decreased in a predictable way—which means with sensitive enough instruments, this light speed decay can be measured.

"Varying speed of light is going back to the foundations of physics and saying perhaps there are things beyond relativity."
...
Now that they’ve used the variable light speed theory to put a hard number on the spectral index, all that remains to be seen is whether increasingly sensitive experiments probing the CMB and distribution of galaxies will verify or overturn their theory. Both Magueijo and Afshordi expect these results to be available at some point in the decade. But Marsh and other physicists aren't so sure.

If their theory is correct, it will overturn one of the main axiom’s underlying Einstein’s theory of special relativity and force physicists to reconsider the nature of gravity. According to Afshordi, however, it is more or less accepted in the physics community that Einstein’s theory of gravity cannot be the whole story

Is Light Slowing Down?
http://opfocus.org/index.php?topic=story&v=8&s=4
Quote
it was observed by Hubble at the beginning of the XX century that galaxies appear to be moving away from the Earth at a velocity that is proportional to their distance from us. The standard explanation is that galaxies are being thrown apart from the expansion of space-time. Imagine drawing some red spots on a balloon and inflating it, the spots (galaxies) would recede from each other at a speed proportional to their distance due to the dilatation of the plastic (space-time). The drawback of this hypothesis is that it needs to postulate the existence of the famous dark matter, which has never been observed and would still constitute 70% of the Universe’s mass. However, if c were decreasing over time, the Hubble effect would turn out to be a simple optical effect, eliminating the need to postulate the existence of the dark matter, as proposed by P. I. Wold back in 1935.

The evidence reported by Sanejouand points towards a possible slowing down of c of about 0.02-0.03 m/s per year. This is extremely small compared with the actual value of c: it would be like having 1 billion dollars in a bank account and losing a few cents per year. However, "the constancy of the speed of light is one of the fundamental pillars of contemporary physics," explains Sanejouand, "so the possibility that it may instead vary (even at a slow rate) has far reaching consequences (although mostly on the theoretical side)." Even though the hypothesis of the slowing down of the speed of light is still a very speculative one, "people like Barrow, Magueijo, as well as John Moffat," Sanejouand concludes, "have opened the way by showing that physically consistent theories in which the speed of light is varying in time can indeveloped in a safe and rigorous way."

Speed of Light Not so Constant After All
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/speed-light-not-so-constant-after-all
Quote
Researchers led by optical physicist Miles Padgett at the University of Glasgow demonstrated the effect by racing photons that were identical except for their structure. The structured light consistently arrived a tad late. Though the effect is not recognizable in everyday life and in most technological applications, the new research highlights a fundamental and previously unappreciated subtlety in the behavior of light.

The speed of light in a vacuum, usually denoted c, is a fundamental constant central to much of physics, particularly Einstein’s theory of relativity...The researchers produced pairs of photons and sent them on different paths toward a detector...Measurements revealed that the structured light consistently arrived several micrometers late per meter of distance traveled.
1245  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 08, 2017, 11:51:11 PM

I wish you both the best of luck.

But you don't really?..You called me an ass hole Wink..Not very good for a god believer Grin..

I was not planning on posting again in this thread but I wanted to post one final time and kindly inform readers that the claim of popcorn1 is false. I did not call him or anyone one else an asshole.

He was, however, obviously offended by my description of atheism as irrational and called me a number of rather unkind things which can be seen by anyone wishing to go back and read the last few pages of this thread.

Atheism is irrational unless it is absolute nihilism this is simple fact. If you don't want to hear it from me you can here it from the smartest atheist I have yet to come across on this forum.

At its most pure and fundamental level knowledge is faith and faith is knowledge.
This is the essential difference between theism/spiritualism and nihilism, it is the question of epistemology, of what is knowledge. I know that this equation of knowledge with faith is false or at least self-defeating. I agree, atheism is false, but that it is false exactly to the extent that its still not absolute nihilism.

nihilnegativum is a rational atheist. I think he is wrong but he is indisputably rational and I enjoyed conversing with him in our prior Discussion of Nihilism. Sadly I am unable to say the same regarding some of the posters in this thread.

"If you're rational you don't get to believe whatever you want to believe.”

― Michael Huemer
1246  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 09:24:27 PM
However, as iamnotback noted slavery is natural

You guys should get bumper stickers of that slogan for your cars.

Ha ha I think that would be misunderstood.  Cheesy
Does not mean it is not true. But the slavery issues is just a subset of a larger truth. Were I to make a bumper sticker that captured the heart of the matter it would be:

"Evil is Rational"

https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/evil-rational
 
1247  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 07:42:35 PM

Do you know that Egyptian pyramids were built by the workforce primarily made up of farmers "recruited" from all Egypt, not slaves?...

And if we assume that they actually raised slaves, how they can be considered skilled if they, as you yourself say, weren't competitive? Nevertheless, we should take into account the level of industrial development of Ancient Egypt (or lack thereof) versus Europe after the 14th century (e.g. manufactories appearing in the early 18th century)...

Basically, you can't compare these skills

Slightly higher ranking slaves who call themselves something other than slaves are still slaves.

What you are really saying in your comparison of industrialized Europe versus ancient Egypt is that slavery is not compatible with our current level of technological progress. This is true. Slavery reduces freedom of choice and thus destroys knowledge. It must be eliminated if we wish to progress.

See: Knowledge, Entropy and Freedom

However, as iamnotback noted slavery is natural thus it has required thousands of years of struggle for us to partially overcome it.
1248  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 05:41:24 PM


I heard another interpretation
...

The problem with slavery is that you can capture a highly skilled slave (though this alone assumes that you are invading a highly developed country) and he will likely work for you but you can't raise skilled slaves...

Yes that interpretation is wrong grasping onto tangential details while ignoring actual cause.

It is certainly possible to build a society that raises skilled slaves. This was the structure of ancient Egyptian society. What you cannot do is expected such a society to be competitive with one that frees its skilled labor.

I covered the relationship between freedom and morality in the following posts.

Religion and Progress
Freedom and God
Freedom is Approached not Achieved


1249  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 04:49:52 PM
True change must happen from the bottom-up. It was not laws against slavery that ended slavery but moral outrage

I tend to disagree, at least in part

It was an outrage from the rest of humanity that made some backward countries like Mauritania finally ban slavery, but the first impulse was purely economic as I get it. Slavery ended not due to the lack of slaves but simply because slave labor was crowded out by more efficient mechanized labor which required highly skilled workers (in comparison with what slaves are generally required to know and do), which is hardly compatible with slavery. The public hostility toward slavery was mostly a side effect which emerged later (cp. industrialized Union states vs agrarian Confederate states in the period of the American Civil War)

The industrial revolution increased wealth and made it relatively less expensive to abolish slavery accelerating its decline but that was not the driver of the abolition movement.

Abolitionism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism
Quote from: Wikipedia
In the late 17th century, the Roman Catholic Church, taking up a plea by Lourenco da Silva de Mendouca, officially condemned the slave trade, which was affirmed vehemently by Pope Gregory XVI in 1839. An abolitionist movement only started in the late 18th century, however, when English and American Quakers began to question the morality of slavery. James Oglethorpe was among the first to articulate the Enlightenment case against slavery, banning it in the Province of Georgia on humanist grounds, arguing against it in Parliament, and eventually encouraging his friends Granville Sharp and Hannah More to vigorously pursue the cause. Soon after his death in 1785, they joined with William Wilberforce and others in forming the Clapham Sect.[1]
1250  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 04:19:36 PM
As a species we finally got rid of it (at least officially) in 1981 when Mauritania became the last nation to outlaw slavery.

Slavery has not been eliminated. And will never be eliminated. Because it is natural. Laws outlawing what is natural, never work. Anti-usury laws didn't work either.

Man thinks he is more powerful than he really is.

There are damned facts that we perhaps wish were not true, but I don't see how it will help me by lying to myself, just because those realities are uncomfortable.

The institution where physical ownership of another human being was acknowledged as acceptable by society and ones "property rights" were enforced by the state is gone.

True change must happen from the bottom-up. It was not laws against slavery that ended slavery but moral outrage.

Man has the potential for infinite self improvement. However, we often seek out easy and false fixes to challenges because the true solution is too hard or too inconvenient.
1251  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 04:04:24 PM

Cryptocurrency is not a real store of value, though.  It is basically at the same level as fiat on Exter's pyramid.  Wealth is derived from resources and labor.  Cryptocurrency will always be the bad money driving out good money compared to an actual resource/commodity based currency whether it's gold, silver, oil, or some other substance.  The problem that it's very difficult to remove counterparty risk on things like uranium and oil always switch roles back to metals such as gold and silver instead.
...

The difference is that crypto currency has the potential to someday climb beyond fiat beyond gold even on Exter's pyramid.

Gold can essentially be thought of as an eternal partially anonymous POW blockchain. It is mined and mining requires work limiting its supply and allowing it to be used as a store of value. Gold does have counterparty risk. The counterparty is society. The purchaser of gold takes the risk that the gold network (the network of individuals in society willing to buy and own gold) will continue to exist. Governments play a role here in that they have the power through their actions to strengthen or weaken this network but they lack the ability to destroy it entirely. The gold network has existed for thousands of years it has also survived multiple government attempts to eliminate it so the counterparty risk is lower than with anything else that exists.

To displace gold cryptocurrency would need to have a counterparty risk that was lower than gold.
This would require
A) Demonstration of enternal nature currency would need to hold its value over several generations
B) Demonstration of resilience cryptocurrency network it would need to show its ability to survive outlast and not be broken or destroyed by hostile government action.

The jury is still out on whether bitcoin can meet these very high hurdles. However, even if bitcoin fails it seems almost inevitable that something will come along someday that can meet them.



1252  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 07:31:51 AM
I bet you think fractional reserve banking is a scam too  Roll Eyes

Am I talking to a bunch of rubes that just fell off the turnip truck?  Of course fractional reserve banking is a scam.

It is the natural state of affairs. You can't regulate what is natural. So nature is a scam?  Roll Eyes

Did you forget what the free market chose to do in the 1800s by preferring to use fractional receipts instead of trade physical gold.

What is natural can still be evil.

Slavery is natural too. As a species we finally got rid of it (at least officially) in 1981 when Mauritania became the last nation to outlaw slavery.

It is possible to eliminate what is both natural and evil it is just very hard. We will get rid of fractional reserve too someday. It is a much more subtle evil, however, so it might not happen for a long time.

I wrote a few posts on the basics of the fractional reserve system a while ago here:
Finance Part I: Understanding the Parasite
Finance Part II: The Parasitic Cycle
Finance Part III: Divide, Conquer, Enslave
1253  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 08, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
...YOUR AN ASS HOLE...

Please send the men in white coats for this dude Cheesy Cheesy..
...
GROW UP NUTTER  Wink

You are like a murderer who after killing some old lady would say: "Well, she was old so I did the right thing by killing her.  I did her a favour."


I wish you both the best of luck.
1254  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 08, 2017, 03:51:27 AM
...
It's their fault, not ours.
...
Nope, just pragmatic when it comes to self preservation.  Jews destroy nations.  Period.


Both these claims are false r0ach. What makes the Jews different is that they are among the very few groups who do not destroy themselves by actively embracing collectivism. They are also smarter then average. In a world full of nations bent on self destruction the sane rise to the top. iamnotback highlighted this well in some of his recent posts. These are copied below (mildly edited for language).


The Jews are succeeding because their group strategy is correctly aligned with the natural laws of nature.

The Jews sit outside the collectivism and anneal with it groupwise...This is why the Jews don't do usury to each other (they are a small group scattered across many collectivist regimes, forming a common philosophical bond or group strategy, and usury is collectivism paradigm in the large), only to the other gentiles.

Collectivism is the fault of those who participate in it. The Jews did not take away free will of the gentiles.


We choose to enslave ourselves with the leftist, atheist religion...there is no freedom from the NATURAL LAW. You can pretend you are free without any NATURAL LAW consequences, but you are lying to yourself if you do.

The core of the Christian (and Jewish) faith is about individual adherence to the NATURAL LAW (which includes the natural law outcome of the group evolutionary strategy). There are of course Christian sects which have fallen away from the core point of Christianity.
...
Every human has to decide to interopt with society and nature in some form of group evolutionary strategy. We don't get a free pass from that decision. It is unavoidable, even by default.


Leftism is the religion which promises the individual he/she can entirely free, protected, while protecting the right of everyone else to be entirely free and protected.

Sounds very noble right? Read on...

All religions exist to protect the society (and the family) against the defection of the individual. Traditional religions argue that subjugation of some of the "evil" whims of the individual (e.g. extra-martial affairs) is necessary to maximize the success of the society, e.g. children who grow up without their fathers usually do statistically much worse in life in various metrics, including health.

Whereas, in leftism the "evil" is not "protecting the right of everyone else to be entirely free and protected". But what does this really mean? It is double-speak. It really means to steal from production so as to enable people to abandon their moral responsibilities so that the society can be utterly destroyed by hedonism and other ramifications of offering everyone "state-supported freedom" (which is a guaranteed megadeath hell in the future).

But don't dare tell the leftist, atheists that their idealism is corrupt, bankrupt, and disingenuous. They will gut you with a knife if you dare challenge the veracity of their beloved social justice.

"Entirely free" means you can do what ever you want and there are no NATURAL LAW ramifications (the State will always support your right to do what ever you want), as long as you support the State's right to protect and economically provide for everyone's right to do what ever they want. In other words, a "free for all" clusterfuck of political correctness and stealing.

But NATURAL LAW in inviolable. No State can protect every individual from the NATURAL LAW. And if you tell people they can be entirely free (including economic freedom for everyone and every whim), then you have lied.

In short, leftism is a Tragedy of the Commons. Thus is a false religion. It lies. It is Satan's religion.

I would have called it DIVINE LAW from which NATURAL LAW flows but otherwise I agree with the logic above.

This is not to say the Jews are blameless. Jews do not destroy nations but collectivism does and collectivism is greatly accelerated by usury.

Jewish Moneylending
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-moneylending/
Quote from: Norman Roth
Biblical law forbids taking or giving interest to “your brother” (a fellow Jew), whether money or food or “any thing.” The Talmud interpreted this very strictly, so much so that even greeting someone from whom you have borrowed, if such greeting had not previously been the custom, is forbidden. [For Biblical law regarding moneylending, see, for example, Exodus 22:24, Deuteronomy 23:20-21, Leviticus 25:35-37.]

...

Originally, the medieval rabbinical attitude toward lending money on interest to Gentiles was very conservative, restricting it to scholars (not only as a means of income but because it was felt that they would be cautious about such loans and limit the interest charged) or to cases where it was absolutely necessary for livelihood.

Moneylending Yielded High Profits for Little Risk
Ultimately, however, the potential of great profits and the widespread demand for moneylending made it universal among Jews. Mordecai B. Hillel of Germany (b. 1298) wrote that there is no profit in any form of commerce like that to be made in lending money. Ibn Adret in Spain observed that it has become permitted for everyone to charge interest on loans to Gentiles, “and now all have made themselves ‘sages’ in this respect

The Jewish people's great historic error (in my opinion) was in their interpretation of scripture. Biblical law forbids taking or giving to “your brother”. Christians as fellow ethical monotheists and neighbours in the same country qualify and should have been considered brothers. An argument can be made that the Jews have paid a very heavy price for this error.
1255  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 08, 2017, 12:21:40 AM
...
STOP...I am trying to help you  Grin..
Use your time on something more constructive...

Why thank you popcorn1. I am trying to help you too.
Sadly, however, you are correct in that I do not have time to continue this discussion.

I have demonstrated that belief in God is rational. I will defer further debate on the matter to others.
1256  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 08, 2017, 12:02:23 AM

Freedom cannot be reduced to self-control and self-government. But even if I assume that this is all freedom does amount to, which would not be bad for starters, there is still a diabolical contortion ongoing of the conceptual liberties associated with these concepts.

The devolution of the social contract is a regressive descent to systems with decreased overall freedom. The state of nature backslided to tribalism. Tribalism lapsed into despotism. Despotism declined into monarchy. Monarchies morphed into republics. Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increased the overall coerced activity and loss of freedom the system permitted.

"God" is a construct that is used to impair the individual's ability to identify with another person.



You appear to once again argue that God limits human freedom. You posit that God and religion impair human connection and interaction. This is false. The opposite is true.

To understand why, however, we must dive into the relationship between entropy, knowledge, and freedom of choice. The post below and the debate that followed covers this relationship.

In the opening post of this thread I linked to The Rise of Knowledge where Anonymint discussed the the nature of knowledge and its relationship to entropy.

Immediately up-thread I discussed the prerequisites of freedom. What freedom is and what is necessary to achieve it.

This post will explore the relationship between freedom and knowledge.

Knowledge and Power by George Gilder
https://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Power-Information-Capitalism-Revolutionizing/dp/1621570274
Quote
The most manifest characteristic of human beings is their diversity. The freer an economy is, the more this human diversity of knowledge will be manifested. By contrast, political power originates in top-down processes—governments, monopolies, regulators, elite institutions, all attempting to quell human diversity and impose order. Thus power always seeks centralization.

Capitalism is not chiefly an incentive system but an information system. We continue with the recognition, explained by the most powerful science of the epoch, that information itself is best defined as surprise: by what we cannot predict rather than by what we can. The key to economic growth is not acquisition of things by the pursuit of monetary rewards but the expansion of wealth through learning and discovery. The economy grows not by manipulating greed and fear through bribes and punishments but by accumulating surprising knowledge through the conduct of the falsifiable experiments of free enterprises. Crucial to this learning process is the possibility of failure and bankruptcy. In this model, wealth is defined as knowledge, and growth is defined as learning.

Because the system is based more on ideas than on incentives, it is not a process changeable only over generations of Sisysphean effort. An economy is a noosphere (a mind-based system) and it can revive as fast as minds and policies can change.

That new economics—the information theory of capitalism—is already at work in disguise. Concealed behind an elaborate mathematical apparatus, sequestered by its creators in what is called information technology, the new theory drives the most powerful machines and networks of the era. Information theory treats human creations or communications as transmissions through a channel, whether a wire or the world, in the face of the power of noise, and gauges the outcomes by their news or surprise, defined as “entropy” and consummated as knowledge. Now it is ready to come out into the open and to transform economics as it has already transformed the world economy itself.

All information is surprise; only surprise qualifies as information. This is the fundamental axiom of information theory. Information is the change between what we knew before the transmission and what we know after it.

Let us imagine the lineaments of an economics of disorder, disequilibrium, and surprise that could explain and measure the contributions of entrepreneurs. Such an economics would begin with the Smithian mold of order and equilibrium. Smith himself spoke of property rights, free trade, sound currency, and modest taxation as crucial elements of an environment for prosperity. Smith was right: An arena of disorder, disequilibrium, chaos, and noise would drown the feats of creation that engender growth. The ultimate physical entropy envisaged as the heat death of the universe, in its total disorder, affords no room for invention or surprise. But entrepreneurial disorder is not chaos or mere noise. Entrepreneurial disorder is some combination of order and upheaval that might be termed “informative disorder.”

Shannon defined information in terms of digital bits and measured it by the concept of information entropy: unexpected or surprising bits... Shannon’s entropy is governed by a logarithmic equation nearly identical to the thermodynamic equation of Rudolf Clausius that describes physical entropy. But the parallels between the two entropies conceal several pitfalls that have ensnared many. Physical entropy is maximized when all the molecules in a physical system are at an equal temperature (and thus cannot yield any more energy). Shannon entropy is maximized when all the bits in a message are equally improbable (and thus cannot be further compressed without loss of
information). These two identical equations point to a deeper affinity that MIT physicist Seth Lloyd identifies as the foundation of all material reality—at the beginning was the entropic bit.
...
The accomplishment of Information Theory was to create a rigorous mathematical discipline for the definition and measurement of the information in the message sent down the channel. Shannon entropy or surprisal defines and quantifies the information in a message. In close similarity with physical entropy, information entropy is always a positive number measured by minus the base two logarithm of its probability. Information in Shannon’s scheme is quantified in terms of a probability because Shannon interpreted the message as a selection or choice from a limited alphabet. Entropy is thus a measure of freedom of choice. In the simplest case of maximum entropy of equally probable elements, the uncertainty is merely the inverse of the number of elements or symbols.
...
Linking innovation, surprise, and profit, learning and growth, Shannon entropy stands at the heart of the economics of information theory. Signaling the arrival of an invention or disruptive innovation is first its surprisal, then its yield beyond the interest rate—its profit, a further form of Shannon entropy. As a new item is absorbed by the market, however, its entropy declines until its margins converge with prevailing risk adjusted interest rates. The entrepreneur must move on to new surprises. The economics of entropy depict the process by which the entrepreneur translates his idea into a practical form from the realms of imaginative creation. In those visionary realms, entropy is essentially infinite and unconstrained, and thus irrelevant to economic models. But to make the imagined practical, the entrepreneur must make specific choices among existing resources and strategic possibilities. Entropy here signifies his freedom of choice.

As Shannon understood, the creation process itself escapes every logical and mathematical system. It springs not from secure knowledge but from falsifiable tests of commercial hypotheses. It is not an expression of past knowledge but of the fertility of consciousness, will, discipline, imagination, and art.

Knowledge is created by the dynamic interaction of consciousness over time. This process results in surprise (new information) which is the foundation of new knowledge. Entropy in this context is a measure of freedom, it is the freedom of choice. An information system with higher entropy allows for greater dynamic interaction of consciousness and thus greater knowledge formation. Freedom must be subject to the constraint of convergence. Some top-down order must be maintained to prevent destructive chaos aka noise that would otherwise destroy rather than create knowledge.

The amount of top-down control needed increases in the presence of increased noise. A primitive population may require the iron fist of a dictator whereas an educated one may thrive in a republic. However, power always seeks centralization. Thus the tendency of both of the dictatorship and the republic will be towards ever increasing centralization restricting freedom beyond that what is necessary and hobbling knowledge formation.

I posit that that the only model of top-down control that facilitates knowledge formation without inevitable progressive centralization is Ethical Monotheism. Uniformly adopted and voluntary followed it may be the only restraint on freedom that is necessary.
1257  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 07, 2017, 07:41:01 PM

I am naturally human. As such, I display traits that some want to attribute to a transcendental (constructed) being. In doing so, these characters claim control over others, in claiming they act on behalf of the transcendental being by forcing laws on others and thereby forfeit their true nature, as humans. These characters have become artificial and unnatural.


You assumption that religion by "forcing" laws on humans voids our true nature. I assume you mean our human nature is forfeit because our freedom of action becomes restricted.

This approach is flawed as it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of freedom.

Freedom and God

Quote from: Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph April 14,1958
Freedom is neither license nor anarchy: It does not mean chaos or the use of tooth and nail. Freedom does not give any man or group the right to steal, to use fraud or aggressive force or threats of same to get what one wants.

Freedom is the right of the individual to choose how he controls himself, so long as he respects the equal rights of every other individual to control and plan his own life. Freedom is thus not the ability to do whatever you want. It is self-control, and self-government, no more, no less.

Quote from: Wendy McElroy
Thus "freedom is self-control" leads to the conclusion that as acting individuals, we must respect the rights and boundaries of others. In other words, every individual should control his or her actions such that they do not aggress or invade against other individuals or their rightfully owned properties. "Freedom" as "self-control" points up the dual nature of human existence: of the Self (mind, soul, and spirit) housed in a physical body. Human beings require both spiritual freedom and physical liberty

The evolution of the social contract is a progressive climb to systems with increased overall freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increased the overall cooperative activity and freedom the system permitted.

The ultimate driver behind this process is Ethical Monotheism for this is the underappreciated foundation that freedom rests upon. The Ten Commandments are often misunderstood as as restrictions. In reality they are the road map to freedom. To better understand this I highly recommend the following 5 minute video clip from Prager University.

God Wants Us To Be Free

Freedom out-competes slavery. This is why the Odin worshiping vikings were replaced by Christian vikings. It is the ultimate reason why Arab polytheism was replaced by Islam and why the Jews who who's traditions demand an individual understanding and observance of scripture have so excelled.

Quote from: Bob LeFevre
A person is responsible for every action he takes and for every action he refuses to take. Thus, he is responsible for commissions and omissions, and whether these are good or bad. The individual is the responsible unit. Responsibility cannot be collectively delegated. Each person is responsible in exactly the same way and to the same degree that every other person is.

At the level of the individual we again return to choice. Do we truly care about freedom or do we care about our cravings and wants? If we choose freedom we must embrace that which makes freedom possible. If we choose whims and desires we should admit to ourselves that we do not prioritize freedom and are most concerned with our ability to sate our appetites.


Freedom is something that is maximized and approached not something that is ever achieved. We are much freer today than the ancient Egyptian society where the majority of people were enslaved by their Pharaoh. Why is that? I would argue it is due to the following rules that have entered our culture. Rules that when followed minimize the need for top down control and maximize freedom.  

Rules:
1 ) I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
2 ) You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
3 ) You shall not take the name of God in vain.
4 ) Remember and observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5 ) Honor your father and mother.
6 ) You shall not murder.
7 ) You shall not commit adultery.
8 ) You shall not steal.
9 ) You shall not bear false witness.
10) You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or house or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

The Ten Commandments: Still The Best Moral Code
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00USBMEX2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Quote from: Dennis Prager
Imagine for a moment a world in which there was no murder or theft. In such a world, there would be no need for armies, or police, or weapons. Men and women and children could walk anywhere, at any time of day or night, without any fear of being killed or robbed. Imagine further a world in which no one coveted what belonged to their neighbor; a world in which children honored their mother and father and the family unit thrived; a world in which people obeyed the injunction not to lie. The recipe for a good world is all there—in these ten sublime commandments.

But there is a catch. The Ten Commandments are predicated on the belief that they were given by an Authority higher than any man, any king, or any government. That’s why the sentence preceding the Ten Commandments asserts the following: “God spoke all these words.”

You see, if the Ten Commandments, as great as they are, were given by any human authority, then any person could say: “Who is this man Moses, who is this king or queen, who is this government to tell me how I should behave? Okay, so why is God indispensable to the Ten Commandments? Because, to put it as directly as possible, if it isn’t God who declares murder wrong, murder isn’t wrong. Yes, this strikes many people today as incomprehensible, even absurd. Many of you are thinking, “Is this guy saying you can’t be a good person if you don’t believe in God?”

Let me respond as clearly as possible: I am not saying that. Of course there are good people who don’t believe in God, just as there are bad people who do. And many of you are also thinking, “I believe murder is wrong. I don’t need God to tell me.” Now that response is only half true. I have no doubt that if you’re an atheist and you say you believe murder is wrong, you believe murder is wrong. But, forgive me, you do need God to tell you. We all need God to tell us. You see, even if you figured out murder is wrong on your own, without God and the Ten Commandments, how do you know it’s wrong? Not believe it’s wrong, I mean know it’s wrong? The fact is that you can’t.

Because without God, right and wrong are just personal beliefs. Personal opinions. I think shoplifting is okay, you don’t. Unless there is a God, all morality is just opinion and belief. And virtually every atheist philosopher has acknowledged this.

Another problem with the view that you don’t need God to believe that murder is wrong is that a lot of people haven’t shared your view. And you don’t have to go back very far in history to prove this. In the twentieth century millions of people in Communist societies and under Nazism killed about one hundred million people—and that doesn’t count a single soldier killed in war.

So, don’t get too confident about people’s ability to figure out right from wrong without a Higher Authority. It’s all too easy to be swayed by a government or a demagogue or an ideology or to rationalize that the wrong you are doing isn’t really wrong. And even if you do figure out what is right and wrong, God is still necessary. People who know the difference between right and wrong do the wrong thing all the time. You know why? Because they can. They can because they think no one is watching. But if you recognize that God is the source of moral law, you believe that He is always watching.

So, even if you’re an atheist, you would want people to live by the moral laws of the Ten Commandments. And even an atheist has to admit that the more people who believe God gave them—and therefore they are not just opinion—the better the world would be.

In three thousand years no one has ever come up with a better system than the God-based Ten Commandments for making a better world. And no one ever will.

1258  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in god? on: January 07, 2017, 03:46:56 PM

The Argument from Religion - A Transcendental Argument

Morality can’t be found from a scientific examination of nature. So if morality is not in nature it must be beyond nature – the supernatural.

Where does value come from? It’s not found in the world reduced to scientific facts. Nonetheless, it’s found in the world as we actually experience it. We find value in all sorts of things. We value our friendships, and hopefully at least some of our family members. We value certain books, films, projects, beautiful days, ‘nature,’ and music. So value exists. We experience it. A transcendental argument asks – what must the world be like for this experience to be possible? There must be more to the world than scientific facts. The value of the world that we discover must have its basis in something else.
...
Morality is invisible to science because science cannot see value. Anything invisible to science must either not exist at all, or it must be nonphysical. Our name for the nonphysical aspects of reality is the spiritual, i.e., the divine, transcendent, God.
...
There is remarkable agreement among those at the higher reaches of many world religions. High level Buddhists, Catholic monks, Kabbalists, Sufis, all describe ultimate reality in similar terms and much of what they say can be summed up in the cliché, ‘all is one.’

If all is one, then my treating you badly is really treating myself badly.
...


I disagree with the argument from religion and its transcendental argument. It is my belief that humans are intrinsically moral whilst they are at the same time completely natural. I reject a transcendental argument with its postulate of a non physical transcendence - this is a mere construct, a superfluous idea - without a direct basis in physical existence, which is what I believe is in fact the only existence that is, and reality and all it implies (see wiki for details) as well. The world is as it is in its natural state and this reality make morality possible. There is no other basis to have this moral value we find in humans. I name the nonphysical aspects of reality the emergent qualities of personhood. No need to interject metaphysical (imaginary) constructs here. We are indeed connected to each other in a network, but its all natural.




Any look at current events or recent history provides a powerful argument that humans are not intrinsically moral.

Religion and Progress

The greatest obstacle to human progress is not a technological hurdle but the evil inherent in ourselves. Humans have knowledge of good and evil and with this knowledge we often choose evil.

Collectivism exists because it employs aggregated force to limit evil especially the forms of evil linked to physical violence. Collectivism is expensive and inefficient but these inefficiencies are less than the cost of unrestrained individualism. Collectivism aggregates capital for the common good and we are far from outgrowing our need for this.

1.   Prehistory required the aggregation of human capital in the form of young warriors willing to fight to protect the tribe.
2.   The Agricultural Age required physical capital in the form of land ownership and a State to protect the land.
3.   The Industrial Age required the aggregation of monetary capital to fund large fixed capital investments and factories.

A farmer in the agricultural age could achieve some protection from theft and violence by arming himself. He could protect himself against a small hostile groups by forming defensive pacts with neighboring farmers. To defend against large scale organized violence, however, requires an army and thus a state.

In 1651 Thomas Hobbes argued for the merits of centralized monarchy. He believed that only absolute monarchy was capable of suppressing the evils of an unrestrained humanity. He described in graphic wording the consequences of a world without monarchy a condition he called the state of nature.

Quote
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. - Thomas Hobbes Leviathan

There may well have been a time in human history when the absolute monarchy of Hobbes was the best available government but Hobbes was writing at the end of that era. England had been transformed from a nation almost completely conquered by the Odin worshiping Great Heathen Army of 865 to a country that protected the legal rights of nobles in the Magna Carta of 1215 to a devoutly Christian nation that formalized the rights of judicial review for common citizens in the 1679 Habeas Corpus act. Hobbes had failed to appreciate the growth of moral capital that allowed for superior forms of government with increased freedom.

Our forefathers understood that it is morality and virtue that allows for freedom a lesson many today have forgotten.

Quote
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin

“Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men; so that we do not depend upon their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.” - James Madison

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” - George Washington

In human interactions we often face a choice between cooperation (reaching a mutually beneficial exchange) and defection (advancement of ourselves to the detriment of our fellow man). The nation state, police, and laws suppress physical violence but do nothing to maintain the morality and virtue that sustain freedom. Collectivism limits some avenues of defection while opening entire new possibilities. New opportunities for defection arise along the entire economic spectrum. Everything from special interest lobbying, to disability scammers, and on a larger scale our entire fiat monetary system are essentially forms of defection allowing the few to profit at the expense of the many. Nation state collectivism has allowed for the creation of great civilizations and yet is entirely unsustainable in its current form.

Quote
"our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it." - A.W. Tozer

The perishing of Western civilization, however, does not mean fragmentation and collapse. Indeed in this instance the opposite appears to be true and collapse looks set to drive us via economic fundamentals and debt into a single world government paradigm for reasons discussed at length elsewhere.

The evolution of the social contract is a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. It is likely that in the near future republics will be consumed by world government, and perhaps someday world government will evolve into decentralized government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. Each iteration increases the sustainable degrees of freedom the system can support. Moral capital is the foundation that allows this progress to occur. For this reason ethical monotheism is the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source since human culture emerged from the stone ages.

Quote
"Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally." - Dennis Prager

The utopia of limited to no government would only be possible for a population constantly striving at all times to be moral. Such a utopia would require all individuals to always act cooperatively, honesty, and transparently. We lack the required moral fiber for anything like this to work at our current juncture in history.

See: Freedom and God for more.


1259  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: January 07, 2017, 05:57:34 AM

I think all this theoretical divagation is taking our eyes off the ball.

The leftists are going to fuck up this world with another megadeath...

You should try to be less pessimistic. If we accept that top-down order (with socialism being one form) plays a role in the organization necessary to spawn new entropy, e.g. decentralizing technology. We must consider the possibility that the current global order is actually lacking in top-down control.

This idea is anathema to the anarchist and hard for us to accept as we live in a the west with our tradition of individualism and moral self-control. However, we must remember that overall freedom is a global metric. The majority of humanity still lives under governments like oligarchic China and tyrannical Saudi Arabia. Thus in the near term the system may simply be trending towards towards increased global freedom which for now requires the reigning in of the nation state.

The great push back towards individual freedoms may simply be the task of the next generations who will inherit a world where the power of the nation state has faded.

Order is more impossible to maintain over asymptotic time horizons because it requires synchrony (coordination) which eventually becomes gridlock.

As we expand across the domains of time, knowledge, and power our spiritual struggle grows ever heavier.
1260  Economy / Economics / Re: Martin Armstrong Discussion on: January 07, 2017, 12:04:38 AM
How do some 1% - 2% have the wherewithal to so dominate the 98%+ Huh

I already explained it:

Just look at the quote:  "Like anything else, nature is the best teacher".  Human life is a story of the individual moseying around, then comes in contact with a collective group who kicks them in the face, forcing the individual into a collective group of their own in order to not go extinct.  Jews practice all these blatantly obvious traits, which is why they're winning, while trying to impose Marxism on everyone else to prevent them from coming together for common interests to compete at all.  They are also heavy into anarchism, except not for their own civilization, only to destabilize others to take them over.

In other words, they use "Liberalism" as a weapon to weaken, destabilize, then divide and conquer:

"6. Political freedom is an idea but not a fact. This idea one must know how to apply whenever it appears necessary with this bait of an idea to attract the masses of the people to one's party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority. This task is rendered easier if the opponent has himself been infected with the idea of freedom, SO-CALLED LIBERALISM, and, for the sake of an idea, is willing to yield some of his power. It is precisely here that the triumph of our theory appears; the slackened reins of government are immediately, by the law of life, caught up and gathered together by a new hand, because the blind might of the nation cannot for one single day exist without guidance, and the new authority merely fits into the place of the old already weakened by liberalism."


"14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority, an impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their personality amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of liberalism, I find a new right - to attack by the right of the strong, and to scatter to the winds all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all institutions and to become the sovereign lord of those who have left to us the rights of their power by laying them down voluntarily in their liberalism."

r0ach has taken true observations followed them to false conclusions.

The six true observations are as follow:

a) The observation that human history is full of collective groups enslaving and oppressing weaker groups.
b) The observation that Leftism weakens and destabilizes nation states as it is self refuting.
c) The observation that secular Jews occupy many leadership roles in Leftist organizations.  
d) That observation that our current financial system is one of top-down control that facilitates increased centralized control over time.
e) The observation that secular Jews disproportionately occupy leadership roles in the U.S. financial system.
f) The observation that racist Jews exist and are documented to exist on social media.

From these six observation he goes on to conclude that there is a worldwide racial conspiracy. This conclusion is a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. To understand why we must understand the true struggle of human history.

We can see hints of the struggle in the words of Adolf Hitler himself.

Quote from: Adolf Hitler
I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
...
The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision.
...
It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
...
It is not truth that matters, but victory

The true war is between the forces that advance knowledge and the forces that centralize and destroy it. In this battle the champions of knowledge are Christianity, Judaism, and hopefully someday Islam. The champions of centralization are Leftism, Secularism, and Nihilism. It is not a war over racial supremacy but over freedom. I do not wish to take this thread too far off topic but for those interested I covered this topic in depth here: Freedom versus Slavery.
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