no these are some real fees that i have to pay, i set my paypal to automatically pay these...

first you get hit with ebay fees for selling stuff on their site
then you get chargebacks.
then you get paypal fees for other reasons.
then you get your paypal account hacked and your fund are stuck in limbo for ever   


but seriously, ebay & paypal takes a significant fee... doesn't look like much a few $ here and there, but it all add up and the total cost of doing business with ebay is pretty high...

I got a question to counter this.

What is the intrinsic value of fiat money? It is made of paper, some coins of different metals, but most of it is digital.

wtf is this eBay Invoice Notification? i didn't buy no eBay Invoice Notification     


this is why i prefer bitcoin.....

"One of the key drivers to healthy growth in an economy is liquidity."

How much truth does this statement carry? I see it quoted in this forum with references to economic texts. It makes me think about the function of traders in the greater economy. They will be driving a majority of the liquidity in the markets, taking that into account, would it be considered healthy growth?

When thinking into more depth, an online shop, say for example bitcoinstore (which I'm a big fan of) might trade $1mill in two months. This would involve a lot of people within the economy spending their coins in exchange for products. The benefits are easily seen and the growth in the economy easily visible.

On the other hand, a single trader with $5k in a margin account could rack up $1mill of traded volume within two weeks.

The original statement seems to suggest that the trader would benefit the economy more than the online shop.

From an economics perspective, what is healthy growth?

jag2k2 you could take it to an assay office or something and have it evaluated if you're unsure, but this is why I acknowledge Bitcoin, even though it's really been designed for one thing it does what it's designed for extremely well without help.

Let me try again, I'm quite noobish at this.

Speaking as someone who is a learning JEWELLER notme I can tell you these guys are right metals have all sorts of properties like heating points and conductivity, you'll find gold in small amounts on many of the electronics you use and silver is used in dentistry and other places too because of how soft but strong the metal is. Bitcoin has been designed very well and I can't think of much better features to add for it but it only does one thing, if you tried to use it for anything else, it just wouldn't work. You couldn't use Bitcoins for industry and you couldn't even really use them for recreation, they've been specifically designed for the task of being a currency.

Bitcoins do the job of being a currency extremely well but that's the only thing they can do, I think if Bitcoin were introduced in an age where everyone was using Gold/Silver for currency like the old days then it would mostly be ignored save for the convenience of doing international transactions.

If this concerned a normal (non-insured) passthrough you certainly went the extra mile. That was way more than you were morally obligated to do.

This makes me wish I had you as a pass through operator, would have saved me a lot of money

Demurrage does have that going for it, But it's still a drain on purchasing power, and a currency with demurrage will never survive next to one that doesn't in a competitive market.

Well, that does not really satisfy my Zimbabwean envy.
But I will take 100% in 3 years if I can get it.

Question on demurrage:
What do you do with those lost coins? If they are annihilated than it just changes amount of money without affecting value. If it is distributed to everyone then nothing changes. I guess it is being distributed to miners so it is effectively exactly same as just giving miners new money. Miners simply increase their share of currency vs everybody else. Old school inflation have one big advantage of being compatible with human psychology. No one wants to see his account shrinking in real-time.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

Bitcoins have value, but it is a USE value determined by market forces; he is correct in asserting that the value of bitcoin is NOT intrinsic since the digital substance of the blockchains has no other use than as a medium of exchange and store of value. Were bitcoin to cease being used as money it would have no INTRINSIC value outside of this function, and in this respect it differs from gold and silver which do have substantial intrinsic value.

It's funny how all these threads are fantasies about getting RID of bitcoin and converting to lots of fiat.

Sure. Lets get there by hoping it goes up. Not down.

In a rush? Huh? It took years to get to this level.

The time to buy in is now.
Bitcoin has been cheap for years. Exactly how much longer do people want to see it go down so they can buy "cheap coins"?
Another year? 5?
People need to get over it.

I am sick and tired of these hyperinflation people constantly getting my hopes and dreams up only to have them crushed time after time.

You see, I have a significant tax debt from some mistakes made long ago. Every month I make payments but it will be years before it is paid off.
However, if we experience hyperinflation and the value of the dollar starts dropping 50% per month. Then my debt will simply be inflated away. I can pay it off with pocket change.

I will then rest easy with my bitcoins whilst watching the world burn.

So, unless you people truly see inflation getting close to that 50% per month mark (which is the definition of hyperinflation) Then stop saying it is just around the corner. Because all you are doing is crushing the hopes and dreams of people like me and millions of others who want a way out of their debts to Uncle Sam.

I am hoping that both I0Coin and GeistGeld might be a lot more amenable once the "Mergecoin" repo is ready and all the merged mined coins use it to update themselves to recent bitcoin code.

-MarkM-