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3141  Economy / Goods / Re: [WTS] Silver and Copper NORFED (Liberty Dollar) Rounds on: September 22, 2013, 11:01:06 AM
These prices are pretty good, compared to what they usually go for at auction. 
Is this an offer just to bitcointalk folks for bitcoin only sale? 
I am going to pass it to some collectors who aren't yet using bitcoin, maybe this will get them to start.

3142  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Swiss national councillor to ban Bitcoins on: September 22, 2013, 04:49:47 AM
Gold is more anonymous than bitcoin.  Switzerland will have to ban that first.
3143  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is it legal to give bitcoins as a gift? on: September 22, 2013, 12:38:02 AM
Regulatory agencies (and the laws they enforce) in the United States will look past any formalistic attempts to evade the licensing requirements.  Accepting a payment and calling it a "gift" will not remove the transaction from the BSA or any other relevant provision.  The IRS rules on gift taxes are not relevant to this analysis, nor are the yearly exclusion limits.

TL;DR: Don't try to get cute with the regulations.
+1

The t-shirt and banana scenario may even be LESS legal than doing it any other way.
By taking willful steps to hide regulated transactions, you may demonstrate your intent to evade and may thereby lose your legal defenses of innocent and harmless mistakes.  The fines may be discretionary and up to the judge, so if they smell a rat they can do more or less accordingly.
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/penalties_A.html
Willful intent may encourage a criminal charge.  Without intent, you aren't going to see the prison time.

As always, law is a matter of geography.  Things vary by jurisdiction.
3144  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: THE TRILLION DOLLAR QUESTION on: September 21, 2013, 01:31:08 AM
No.  Anonymity is not the issue "they" pretend that it is. 
Why?

1) Gold is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

2) Bitcoin has uniquely identifiable serial numbers, just like paper currency.

3) In fact Bitcoin is less anonymous than paper currency because every transaction is publicly recorded, forever.

3145  Economy / Economics / Re: How does a country fully adopt Bitcoin? on: September 21, 2013, 12:34:18 AM
Surely there are mechanisms how a country could back their currency by bitcoin, no problem. It's just not realistic at all.

Most realistic scenario:

1. Remove the guns - allow competing currencies.
2. Slowly destroy your old currency through inflation (already being done in all states).

Just let the best money win. We all of course know it would be bitcoin Smiley

Then again... even if you could pay your taxes in bitcoin rather than fiat... would you be patriotic enough to do so?
3146  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Assault weapon bans on: September 20, 2013, 05:01:59 PM
So a lynch mob, then? Or an elected authority, i.e. a government?

Which?

Depends on the infraction. The authority wouldn't be elected, it would be purchased by the participants.

We've been all through that, and how it's a failure. You just stated that you buy those who will judge you and the opposite party. My authority is bigger, better and more expensive that yours.

Way to go.

Why would either bigger or more expensive be better?
From either a cost perspective, or intimacy with the facts perspective, those attributes would both seem worse rather than better.

It would also be a nice feature to not pay it when it isn't needed rather than have it continuously drum up business for itself.
3147  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 20, 2013, 03:02:10 PM

And, as I explained, it would be worthless.  I don't understand your obsession with it.


If there were some evidence of early release, it would be valuable, as it would point to malfeasance.  Though it is very unlikely to find that in the clear anywhere.


What exactly are you disagreeing with?  I only made two claims:
1. There are dozens of people (Fed employees, board members) who knew the decision before it was public.
or
2.  Most of those people are very well connected with Wall Street and government officials.

No problem with these as written, just that they don't lead to a meaningful conclusion in this context without a #3.
Trading something public with inside knowledge, or disclosing that knowledge to someone that trades is what brings the trouble for them.
3148  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How are you spreading the word about bitcoins? on: September 20, 2013, 12:25:31 PM
I asked the bank manager at my local branch today what he was doing to hedge his dollars. Smiley
3149  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 20, 2013, 12:17:57 PM
...  The timestamp could be from the .gov site or any site that crawled it.

And I still have seen no proof for what you are saying.


Yes, proving what they knew and when they knew it...and then drawing the connection between someone who knew, and a trade.
Others at the Fed knew certainly...  But who traded with inside knowledge?
Without that, its "objection conjecture, your honor".

3150  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 20, 2013, 11:40:53 AM
I assume this to be true, yet I still have not found actual data to support it.  A time stamp would be great.

I'm with you on this.  It looks dirty.  But its a goose chase.  Even with a time stamp, calling foul on early trades without either evidence of communication or a confession doesn't get us anywhere.  The reason for the trade is not going to be in evidence.  It is one thing to believe it, yet another to prove it forensically.

The trader could have decided to sell dollars against stocks and gold because Bernanke walked at 40 paces a minute instead of 45 and decided that was because he was reluctant to be seen as wavering.  There are fed-watching analysts that really do monitor such minutia and base trading decisions on it, and even if they don't, it gives them "plausible deniability".  (Or his briefcase looked heavier, or his shoes weren't recently polished.)

Martha Stewart went to jail for it because she doesn't have the criminal mind that your professional inside trader has cultivated.  They are going to have a bunch of other "reasons for trade" and less of an identifiable communication nexus.
3151  Economy / Collectibles / Re: New Bitcoin COLD HARD CASH by the makers of New Liberty Dollar on: September 20, 2013, 03:14:02 AM
Production minting started today.  First ordered pieces should start shipping after the weekend!
Thank you for your patience.  Giving birth to these has been a wonderful adventure so far and I am grateful for your sharing it with me.

I am also still busy at this time shoring up the web part of these.  A lot has changed since I was cobbling HTML using vi on Sun Micros in the dungeons of Disney in the early 90's (apologies to you EMACS lovers).  I am more than a little rusty, and the CSS bits are giving me headaches because of juggling a lot of things and trying to remember to sneak in some rest when the brain stops working the way it is supposed to.  I am starting to think that all-nighters are for the younger folks.

...but, it is all starting to come together, and some dear friends are offering to help and that is making a huge difference.  (Thanks Mike, doing this is WAY better than shoveling code into the Citibank machine ever was, isn't it?)
3152  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 20, 2013, 03:00:03 AM


Line 1: Venezuela asks London for its gold back (repatriation of 99 tons).
Line 2: Germany asks New York and Paris for its gold back (repatriation of 674 tons).

Normal trading activity would generally cause prices to rise following these events as leased gold would be called back for delivery, but these countries are told to sit on their thumbs for years instead.

Then there is this:



Which looks like a steep drop in physical inventory, yes?

But wait...Lets step back a bit for some perspective...



So it is not just a drop, it is a precipitous drop, unprecedented (it only rose until Germany's demand, then only fell).

But... lets step back just a bit more and add the ETFs into the picture.  The ETFs are the general price setting metric as they are more liquid.  But they are really just paper, and unless you are a bullion bank, it might as well be just fiat, and well, a picture speaks volumes. Smiley



There you have the price falling, but massive redemption of the paper for the physical.  Intuitively redemption SHOULD cause the price to rise as the underlying asset becomes bought and also depleted through redemption.  It is becoming increasingly scarce.  So unless something weird is happening...

Consider that maybe the price is being driven down so that the redemption can be more affordable?  The central banks have it within their charter to manipulate currencies.  Gold (and bitcoin) fall into that category.  They can legally manipulate the price and not suffer the teeth of the CFTC.
I'm no conspiracy buff, but this seems consistent with the evidence at hand.

So tell me... am I crazy to be redeeming bitcoin for physical gold and silver?  Is it crazy to sell the oldest form of money for the digital/virtual/ephemeral at a time when the world is scrambling for the physical?  Maybe I am, but I am having fun doing it, and I like inflation-proof asset diversity.  More than anything, the opportunity to craft the best of its kind Bitcoin Specie has me giddy.  It is the most significant contribution I can make to the community at this time as a designer of numismatic physical money, to back the worlds best virtual currency with the worlds most durable asset.  Others may also do this, so the challenge of setting a higher standard, is exhilarating.

The production minting is starting TODAY (yay, at last), first with the Quarter Bitcoin one troy ounce silver, and soon also in gold, and I am very excited.  My team and I have been working on this for quite a while, and we are pretty happy with the result and hopeful that others will be also.  Sorry if this feels like advertising to you, it is personally exciting and so hard for me to avoid talking about it... but I will stop now.
3153  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 19, 2013, 10:22:07 PM
you know there's a problem simply by the fact that ALL asset classes moved inversely to the USD. 

after the announcement, USD down, everything else up.  everything.  everything except Bitcoin interesting enough. 

Bitcoin users not affected?

absolutely ridiculous and indicates that this world of ours is responding economically only to Fed pumping.

Probably already priced into bitcoin... given the outlook of most bitcoiners.

Wow, there were people that did not expect this? :|

Nods, as clearly evidenced by the market movement in everything except bitcoin.
3154  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: FinCEN responds to clarification requests on: September 19, 2013, 09:06:31 PM
Yes, no, but definitely maybe... Huh

We still have not left the land of speculation on what it all means.  The guidance is new.  It has yet to be enforced anywhere, and the enforcement has yet to be litigated, adjudicated, appealed, heard and made into case law precedent.

We may get our first taste of it from the Bitcoin Foundation vs California, which frankly suits me much better than the Feds going after some tiny miner without the patience and perspicuity to defend a Federal case.
3155  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 19, 2013, 08:45:17 PM
Folks used to trade the Fed expectation based on what Greenspan had for breakfast and the heft of his briefcase.
http://money.cnn.com/1999/06/29/economy/fed_briefcase/
3156  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: September 19, 2013, 06:06:47 PM
Regardless of decision the manipulators like JPM already knew the decision. The people sitting there listening to the meeting were sent probably by blogs/corporations who paid for them to be there.

The direction is never found by reading the headlines but by reading the psychology behind the headlines. Whereever more pain is thats the direction it will go, where the stop losses lie, regardless of fundamentals or technicals. When there is money to be made the manipulators will move to take it.
Bots scan news feeds and public data of all types and use algorithmic trading faster than any human can read.
3157  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Ripple Developer Conference 2013 - Las Vegas, October 10th 2013 on: September 19, 2013, 05:43:40 PM
Hi Stefan,
Email sent.
Looking forward to meeting the folks there, and giving this thread a little bump.
3158  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: NSA and ECC on: September 19, 2013, 05:08:06 PM
Sorry BurtW, but I totally disagree.

What is the point of creating a standard if you cannot justify the values you chose for it, nor you are able to reproduce a path that was taken to calculate them?

This is not a science!
This is a sloppy designing at best.
And at worst? Oh, let's hope not... Smiley

His answer appears honest (at least so far as we've been able to check), rather than arguing from authority as you claimed.  He admits what he doesn't know, and why.  He made reasonable guesses at some points and stated they were such.

I agree that the answer is not perfect nor complete, but neither was your characterization of it accurate.  Keep in mind that it didn't take a FOIA request to get this, it was given freely and without lawyers in a friendly, informal and collegian manner.

It might look different were it a submission to a peer reviewed journal and meant to withstand critical review, instead it was a VERY swift and candid response at no benefit to himself.  Gratitude is warranted.

What you are seeking (a justification of values along with the path taken to calculate) may yet come, but that will take them some research and effort.  Just our asking for this may stimulate such an effort.  We are helping to guide them to do more meaningful work in light of the current reports and questions raised.
3159  Economy / Economics / Re: How does a country fully adopt Bitcoin? on: September 19, 2013, 10:02:23 AM
I would expect a country adopting bitcoin as their economic backstop, would also be compelled to get into the mining game in a big way. Iceland has geothermal energy supply but their cost of kw/h is worse than the US, but not bad. Kuwait has the lowest electricity rates in the world by far at 1c a kw/hr. Someone should really start an exchange on the cayman islands actually.....

The title question presumes incentives for a country to fully adopt Bitcoin.  This question of "How" skips over quite a bit of what is discussed here. (Lots of why, whether, which, and when discussions).

To put an answer to the OP question, the howto, is by the people fully adopting it.  The government is just made up of some people (albeit people paid in fiat).  
This is the method of the modern revolution:  The model works when the leaders, at some point, call out the armed forces to "create peace" in their nation, and those armed forces instead do not take up arms against their fellows, this (or its monetary analog) can lead to full adoption.

But Bitcoin is not much a threat to any nations as it may be to some few institutions and national endeavors (such as central banking vs decentral banking, or wars of conquest funded by monetary easing).  Nations can do quite well without these institutions and endeavors as evidenced by the peaceful and prosperous period between the 2nd and 3rd central banks in the US.

In the mean time, Bitcoin is beneficial to people and businesses regardless of any greater purpose it may hold.  Focusing on those benefits, rather than what ends these means may bring, is the way to attain both.
3160  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Assault weapon bans on: September 18, 2013, 11:48:56 PM

My hatred of democracy isn't related directly to the NAP, it's related to two things I perceive to be true. One, individuals can and do make good decisions regarding their own fate, and two, groups exclude the individual BY FUCKING DEFINITION. I don't have any desire to be a cog in your machine, and your machine won't allow me not to be. Mob rule with a fancy name is still mob rule. The founders of this nation almost without exception did NOT want a true democracy, but rather a republic with a democratic method of selecting it's rulers. I don't find that a lot better, but it's at least less random.


So, your experiences are something like this?

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