It might be insightful to figure out a percentage of people who have had bitcoin scammed/stolen from them. I imagine it is higher percentage than gold, even when you include people that have lost their wedding ring accidentally, but I don't know. Just a guess.
We can do a straw poll here since it is a thread probably made of folks with an interest in both or owning both.
Then you might as well include all the scams and theft of US dollars and other currency. Heck might as well include all credit card fraud. That's still scammed/stolen isn't it? That would be getting off the topic here of Gold and Bitcoin, yes? I've lost BTC but not AU. (But I also do not wear a wedding band). I suspect that a lot of folks have lost those, or earrings or watches or other gold jewelry. I also suspect that about the same percentage of folks or more, that have both, have lost bitcoin. Scams, accidents, theft, etc. I'm guessing that there are probably more percentage of folks that have suffered bitcoin scams than gold scams though. (The tungsten issue is what started this line of curiosity) |
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Careful or you might confuse folks. Hashing uses crypto, but the block-chain doesn't hide the result, rather it uses the cryptographic result as an indexable tx reference, so it is incorrect to say "there is no encryption in the Bitcoin protocol".
Encryption in the form of hashes, is frequently used in digital forensics to irrefutably verify a dataset as unchanged. So the blockchain comes pre-subpoened, and pre-forensically useful. It doesn't get any better than that for the LEOs.
A hash is not "encrypted" data. Something that is "encrypted" can be "decrypted" with a key. When something is hashed it cannot be decrypted and there is no key. http://www.danielmiessler.com/study/encoding_encryption_hashing/Thanks for that. We agree on the definitions, and your point is well made here, and appreciated. (I am getting frequently interrupted as I am typing and doing so sloppily.) My intended point was not just that there encryption in Bitcoin, as well as hashing, but that the senator was left with the impression that the general ledger was encrypted (with a trapdoor prime number), and the good bits about it being already what the LEOs want was lost. |
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No senator, there is no encryption or prime number-based cryptology used by Bitcoin to store or transfer value. However, please respond to this freedom of information act request, requesting transcripts of any testimony or council you may have received that may have informed you that the words "prime number" "encryption" and "trap door" go together... The tragedy is that the panel let it float not to embarrass the senator, which is a mistake. The senator was asking it as a question, and also to display some level of knowledge, though that knowledge didn't apply. The ledger is "decentralized" and not encrypted to hide it but to secure it as unalterable. Those points would have been useful for him (and more importantly the video audience) to understand. It was an opportunity missed. The notion that it is public, (thereby requiring no subpoenas), and forensically useful (as it is provably unaltered) are very important elements to diminish the need for any attempts at meddling with the protocol or making laws attacking it. Opportunity missed. Correction, the ledger is not encrypted. There is no encryption in the Bitcoin protocol but yes the larger context is right. The question was in the right ballpark but all the details incorrect and nobody corrected it. An opperunity lost. If nothing else correcting DECENTRALIZED is kinda important. It is the decentralized ledger which is the heart of what makes Bitcoin, Bitcoin. Careful or you might confuse folks. Hashing uses crypto, but the block-chain doesn't hide the result, rather it uses the cryptographic result as an indexable tx reference, so it is incorrect to say "there is no encryption in the Bitcoin protocol". Encryption in the form of hashes, is frequently used in digital forensics to irrefutably verify a dataset as unchanged. So the blockchain comes pre-subpoened, and pre-forensically useful. It doesn't get any better than that for the LEOs. |
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every damn time. what happened to good old "lurk moar"? here's your answer: the (highly secure) blockchain is most likely not the ideal medium for micro transfers, and probably not even for small-ish transactions like paying for your coffee. That doesn't mean Bitcoin will fail, it only means there will be ways to perform smaller transaction off the chain.
Such as in bitcoin specie. Its ideal for the small off-block-chain point-of-sale no-delay small transaction and is also more anonymous than the cryptocurrency. /shameless-plug |
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The btc payment has got the standard fee included. Heck, even my ftc payment of xx:47 already has 1 confirmation  Default fee was zero last time I tried to send from Bitcoin-qt. Took a while for that one to go through. Could be a bit more friendlier on the UI. Yes, I missed this too on a new install last week. Cost me a couple hours and some embarrassment helping out a new user at an OTC meetup. |
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Got birth certificate?
Are those even required anymore? |
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It might be insightful to figure out a percentage of people who have had bitcoin scammed/stolen from them. I imagine it is higher percentage than gold, even when you include people that have lost their wedding ring accidentally, but I don't know. Just a guess.
We can do a straw poll here since it is a thread probably made of folks with an interest in both or owning both.
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all this means is you weren't paying attention.
And all that means is that you like to blame victims. |
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Theft and counterfeiting are completely different. Are you suggesting its easier to steal BTC than gold? The difference between theft and counterfeiting is a matter for the lawyers. Both are easy/hard to steal depending on security. A lot of both is stolen, defrauded, scammed, whatever you like to call it. Personally? I have had more BTC stolen than gold stolen (I had a bitcoin plus interest with coinlenders and some dust in inputs.io, no one has stolen any of my gold.) I have had physical gold a lot longer (many years) than I have had bitcoins. It might be insightful to figure out a percentage of people who have had bitcoin scammed/stolen from them. I imagine it is higher percentage than gold, even when you include people that have lost their wedding ring accidentally, but I don't know. Just a guess. |
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A bull is a person who does not hold fiat.
A bear is a person who holds at least some fiat and wants to return to BTC.
As you can see, I am now a bear. But almost everybody else are bulls. What this means is that you do not have the means to influence price to the upside. Only we do. But we are very few. Also the newbies do. But will they really buy in this kind of situation? Everyone else are bulls? The bears are all over this forum today predicting their doom and gloom, even Blitz turned bear and is preaching 2011 all over again. My straw poll index of 1) Number of new localbitcoin buyers pestering me. 2) Coinbase time of running out of coins for sale. (though it seems there were enough sellers that they have been able to offer coins at times) Suggests to me that there is still more new moneyflow in ahead, though short term is the domain of the whales and the sharks. Am only looking at week over week, and wouldn't call anything daily (nor would that matter to me as it takes longer than that to get cash to an exchange). I gave up the TA chart analytics, algo writing and daytrading in the 90s as an activity that does not make the best use of my talents, but cherish the lessons from those long gone days, I made a lot of money for people that were a lot richer than I was (or will ever be). |
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Coinbase is out of daily coins now by 7AM Eastern time, 4AM Pacific
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So , it all ended like.... nothing changed?
There won't even be any changes considered for many weeks. This was a hearing for getting information and questions answered. The main requests for changes were to simplify and clarify the "money service" registration craziness. |
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I don't see the "greatest threat" of Ripple. It would be like suggesting that Apple the greatest threat to Linux?
Unfortunately the average person walks past the Apple store everyday and knows nothing about Linux, even though Android is sort of closed Linux. If Ripple becomes the cryptocurrency of the people by being marketed very well, it might take off and become mainstream and destroy Bitcoins value. That risk seems extraordinarily unlikely. I don't get why folks are worried about it. 1) Ripple is marketed very poorly, Bitcoin marketing is far superior and no one is even being paid to do that. 2) Ripple becoming "mainstream" would be like x400 "beating" SMTP in the marketplace, it isn't going to happen, they have different purposes. 3) They solve different problems, with different solutions, they don't even really compete. Ripple is a debt conveyance system, Bitcoin is an asset class and a payment system. They aren't much in the same game, even though they use some similar technologies. 4) Centralized and proprietary vs open, free, user supported. 5) Ripple is trust based and centralised, Bitcoin is trust free and distributed. It is more likely that Bitcoin and Ripple will each do better because of each other. Ripple certainly benefits from Bitcoin's leadership in the market place, and Bitcoin can benefit from a trust based system for those that want that. For example if I have trusted business partners who can initiate exchanges. Your example of the Apple store is an apt example of an innovation that is crossing-over. There are now Android stores popping up. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/12/google-android-store-australia/Android remains the globally dominant phone OS, and is only a fraction of Linux globally even without these stores, but they figured it is worth a try too. People are more afraid than they need to be. If Bitcoin's value were destroyed, that would hurt Ripple greatly, not help it. Bitcoin is a main reason for Ripple to even exist. |
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I posted this in another thread. Am I wrong to be so critical of Ripple? I really feel they are trying to privatize cryptocurrencies. This is in response to the possibility that RippleLabs/Opencoin are going to position themselves as the better cryptocurrency. As I understand it Ripple was around before Bitcoin
This is a misconception that Opencoin loves to propagate. Ripple has been around longer than Bitcoin, but not in the current state it is in now. That was the old Ripple. Don't confuse the old Ripple (Ryan Fugger's) and the new Ripple (Jed McCaleb/OpenCoin). They have more differences than similarities
In fact the old Ripple did not contain the built in Bitcoin replacement stealth currency XRP (Ripples) of which Opencoin own most of them and create artificial scarcity and sell them off over inflated for Bitcoins to idiots. Make no mistake, Ripplelabs/Opencoin is the prefered currency for the USA, and Google know this, the entire thing is just a layer on top of the current credit/fractional reserve system. One of our greatest threats is a freedom restricting bank friendly currency called XRP. Also this forum is full of Ripple shills, you have been warned. Criticism, if effective, will improve it. Be as critical as you like. Personally I see nothing wrong with folks making private cryptocurrencies. They can do anything they like in the walled gardens, and it doesn't damage or compete with Bitcoin. Innovations developed independently may even ultimately be added into Bitcoin if they are acceptable and good for Bitcoin. Places where the marketing is false or misleading should be pointed out, and you are correct in doing so. If they are wise, they will refine their messages. I don't see the "greatest threat" of Ripple. It would be like suggesting that Apple the greatest threat to Linux? |
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No senator, there is no encryption or prime number-based cryptology used by Bitcoin to store or transfer value. However, please respond to this freedom of information act request, requesting transcripts of any testimony or council you may have received that may have informed you that the words "prime number" "encryption" and "trap door" go together... The tragedy is that the panel let it float not to embarrass the senator, which is a mistake. The senator was asking it as a question, and also to display some level of knowledge, though that knowledge didn't apply. The ledger is "decentralized" and not encrypted to hide it but to secure it as unalterable. Those points would have been useful for him (and more importantly the video audience) to understand. It was an opportunity missed. The notion that it is public, (thereby requiring no subpoenas), and forensically useful (as it is provably unaltered) are very important elements to diminish the need for any attempts at meddling with the protocol or making laws attacking it. Opportunity missed. |
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Gambling is a tax on being bad at math.
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I agree, the problem now is fiat transfers to exchanges and whether the exchanges can cope: BTCe has a dubious record; Gox is a nightmare all round; Stamp has failed this week; no volume on Coinmkt. The list goes on - its the fiat interface that hampers crypto adoption.
Indeed. I'm trying to get money into bitcoin RIGHT NOW, and I just can't do it. And that's with me having a verified account at Gox and Coinbase. No coins, or 7-10 day international wire transfer? Hmmm. Well this blows. Keep checking Coinbase. I was able to buy last night, price lock-in and all. Coinbase has a daily limit that THEY can buy, and a daily limit that YOU can buy from THEM. Since few with coinbase accounts are selling their coins, they run out. Two days in a row, today they were out by 9:30 pacific time. If you can hit them up between the time they buy and when they run out, you can buy with a lock in, otherwise you get whatever price it happens to be when your money arrives from the ACH. How do they calculate how many bitcoins you will get if they don't get a buy price until after you ACH money has arrived? They wait until your money arrives and then put you in the queue for when they do their daily coin buy. You agree to this unknown price when you send them the ACH... and still they are selling out, every day... I think Goat called it when he observed that the bull run isn't over, it is just being throttled by fiat constraints. |
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Alright its time I jump in and ask my obligatory "worried guy" question: Bought 1BTC @ $717USD. Do I hold or sell? I have no strategy, no system, and most definately not a day trader... FYI, I've "bought in" at a couple of diff price points so my weighted average cost per BTC is about $475...so that combined with my "greedy" nature is telling me to hold even though I'm staring at the blood-red candle sticks on this graph. Help! Talk this wanna-be Bull away from the Bear ledge!  Hold. Hold, hold hold. Do you have a bot? Then forgot about trying to trade for profit, you're going to get steamrolled by people who know what they are doing. The market may bleed money over the next days or weeks. Do not worry about it. Look at the 1-year chart and take a deep breath. Thank me in six months. I've got several bots but sadly I'm not "smart" enough to quite get them configured right. I bought the HaasOnline bot and the Butter Bot. The various configs I've tried the past couple of times on each have ended up costing me -- so clearly I'm not getting the right variables configured in these to capitalize on the swings. I've got 7BTC left...after my bot misfortunes...of which 5BTC is "frozen" in my freezer into an block of ice. The remaining 2BTC is what I planned to try and work with if it makes sense to try again wth the bots or just to manually trade for myself... I think you should probably cut your losses, man, especially if you're new to trading. I've been doing this successfully in the real world for years and I still don't like technical trading. But it is fun to watch. The block of ice is hilarious, BTW. Laminated paper wallet? I might even do that.  I would have laminated it but I dont' have a lamination machine. I just got the paper double bagged in two ziplocks. That is then folded and put into a small tupperware container...which is water tight...and then frozen. My bank was asking too much for even their smallest safety deposit box. I'm actually thinking of thawing it out and sending a copy to my family as a backup... ONe thing I hadn't thought of is if my apartment building burns down or somethign...or if we have another Hurricane Sandy, I might lose the private keys...so I guess i know what i'm doing this weekend. Remember, if there are two copies it's twice as easy to steal the coins. Make sure your family knows how to keep it safe, and NO CAMERAS EVER. My "paper" wallet is made of steel. Stamped with hand stamps:  |
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I agree, the problem now is fiat transfers to exchanges and whether the exchanges can cope: BTCe has a dubious record; Gox is a nightmare all round; Stamp has failed this week; no volume on Coinmkt. The list goes on - its the fiat interface that hampers crypto adoption.
Indeed. I'm trying to get money into bitcoin RIGHT NOW, and I just can't do it. And that's with me having a verified account at Gox and Coinbase. No coins, or 7-10 day international wire transfer? Hmmm. Well this blows. Keep checking Coinbase. I was able to buy last night, price lock-in and all. Coinbase has a daily limit that THEY can buy, and a daily limit that YOU can buy from THEM. Since few with coinbase accounts are selling their coins, they run out. Two days in a row, today they were out by 9:30 pacific time. If you can hit them up between the time they buy and when they run out, you can buy with a lock in, otherwise you get whatever price it happens to be when your money arrives from the ACH. |
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