Roadmap
(snip)
What I want to know most is can you offer a service placing the asics on PCB and heatpaste and solder them, because of the diligence needed with regards to cooling, you being the board designer and all? I can get the rest done elsewhere... If you've said something that covers this my apologies  Information overload :S Project is looking good so far btw |
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Tee hee you're all criminals now
GOD DAMN! Rickrolled again.... |
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At this point, however, I think you've wasted far more time - and suffered far more frustration - determining how small a denomination you can give than will be inflicted on the recipient by being handed either assortment of change.
Yes, at this point we've all invested so much into the problem that I think it's reasonable to demand a followup on what happens, but please don't spread your report over more than: 1 sentence must be contained in 1 post, 1 paragraph of text split into no more than 3 posts, 2 paragraphs of text split into 5 posts, ... |
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Could be either of these possibilities:
1 Someone near you has been caught doing something naughty, and rather than tell who else was involved and risk real trouble they pinned part of it on 'blazr' or whatever handle the police contacted on localbitcoins.
2 Someone they caught recently was using localbitcoins, and they thought that therefore everyone who uses localbitcoins is up to the same thing. Either you were the first person they went after subsequently and they now know otherwise, or they've caught others doing the same and you are the exception so far.
The search warrant pretty much confirms that somebody has been caught dealing drugs and laundering through localbitcoins, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to convince the judge.
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I guess I'm never going to get the answer to my question...
? You keep getting the answer to your question: Does this mean if I owed someone £10.00 I can pay them back like this...?
20 x 1p = £0.20
10 x 2p = £0.20
100 x 5p = £5.00
46 x 10p = £4.60
Total = £10.00
Yes it does mean you could pay them back like that. And if they don't accept it and take you to court you would win the case, because it is legal tender. |
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I don't know, the press launch for the bitcoinATM is tomorrow, their website is not very detailed. Maybe I am talking about reinventing their wheel who knows... |
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Thinking about the problem of fluctuating exchange rates, what if the machines themselves were an exchange system? You put money in, put in your bid, and wait for another machine or user to want to sell at your bid price....
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No you missed a point which is quite important. It would not interface with the banking system in any way, ONLY btc-cash.
Err, and who operates the ATM and how? Somebody has to deliver the BTC for fiat. The machine operator does, loads it up with however much btc and £10 notes, gets a text off the android machine to say its running low on tenners or it needs emptying... |
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All you need is an android app, a wad of cash, and a booth with a dwarf in it wearing headphones so you can tell him how much to give. Bam. Done
This could work..... if the ATM was this shape:
.-""-.
/[] _ _\
_|_o_LII|_
/ | ==== | \
|_| ==== |_|
||" || ||
||LI o ||
||'----'||
/__| |__\
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Interesting thoughts. However the exchange market converts BTC <> $ ¥ € . If you have an ATM system then you have an operator essentially acting as a gateway to the FX market. So the ATM operator would hedge his positions in the most liquid market. That's what banks usually do. I've read that even smaller companies pay up to 0.50-1.00% for FX transactions. And so we are back to the exchange problem, because a "BTC bank" would have to use the exchange for hedging.
Yes this is the difficult thing I deliberately avoided getting into at this point, how to call the price of btc and not end up 'subsidising' its operation due to market fluctuations. I think a buffered daily or weekly rate might work, it requires proper thought. There are different kinds of functions of banks, exchanges, market markers which possibly can be completely re-invented, re-designed. But one of the most crucial aspects are commonly overlooked on this board, and that is the aspects of law. If you the Bitcoin entities have the same kinds of regulations as the standard entities and the interaces are controlled by the existing banks, exchanges, it doesn't much of a difference, at least where that infrastructure exists. It does not make much sense to convert $ into BTC and then into ¥, because you are only going to pay much higher fees most of the time.
It would be up to the individual operator/builder in each case, for example in my country you'd have to apply for a 'fit and proper test', and then apply for the Money Services License. The real power in the short term is in places where infrastructure does not exist. Say for poor countries where there are not even proper banks and ATMs. Imagine being able to roll out a banking infrastructure around BTC. You would basically save 99% of the costs.
Exactly why this could be a game changer, however I feel you'd need some presence in '1st world' countries so people can send money to their families. This would speed up adoption. Say if MtGox would be shutdown the price would probably drop by 70% in a matter of days, and the market would dry up. So in this sense BTC is not safe at all.
again, the difficult question, and where this idea may lose its viability, market fluctuation. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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The machine itself not exist already, it's a standard ATM.
it's the a function of integrating bitcoin into it that's a little tricky.
No you missed a point which is quite important. It would not interface with the banking system in any way, ONLY btc-cash. |
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Well, what are you waiting for guys? Do you have any skills in electronics and/or programming?  Even if I whole-heartily support the idea, this is far from being a trivial task... Yes, I know  but not interfacing with banks would make the task much simpler? you can buy a cash counter/stacker for £125 http://www.intelligentvending.co.uk/payment-systems-telemetry/banknote-readers-note-stackers/gba-st2.htm, a MDB - USB interface for similar or less, and an android phone for similar. Add in another £200 for a nice steel box, and the whole thing costs < £500. The software is the hard part to me not being a programmer. |
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You can. They don't have to accept it, but if they don't, and especially if they then add more charges, you will have a good enough case to take them to small claims court, where you will be able to make them accept it and cancel the extra charges. You'd want proof you offered it in a legally acceptable format i.e. video evidence or a letter from them declining your payment offer or something. Don't be too surprised if small claims make you pay the court costs for wasting everyone's time though! But if you really, really want to piss somebody off it might be worth paying the court costs (around £40 I think) just to do it.
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the chips from zefir will be sent to a DIY PCB project.. any update on your PCB plans?
At the risk of repeating myself  I'm most interested in BkkCoin's board https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.0 , if anyone wants to buy from this group and send to BkkCoin in Thailand maybe we can get something organised? |
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Re: UK - I remember one had to join a many months long waiting list for the 'privilege' of maybe eventually getting a land line phone installed back in the '80s, even in central London, before Magie kicked some complacent arses in to actually even first hearing about the concept of customer service & open market competition.
As opposed to now, when you have to phone your service provider and get put on hold for 15 minutes while they get through to their technical department, who then try to reach BT Openreach, who pass you back to your service provider, who promise to call you back.... [EDIT] sorry we're going off topic, it's a British thing mixing banter with business.... |
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Hi I'm quite excited about the Bitcoin ATM idea, the notion of being able to input £20 notes into a bitcoin ATM in London, then fly to Tokyo and put bitcoin into a machine that gives me Yen is very exciting. Imagine a machine in or near all the major airports in the world, that would make a great exchange network!
Similarly it is getting quite difficult to buy or sell btc on the online exchanges due to the interface with the banking system, this would be an excellent way to get round the banks and deal directly with btc<>cash money. Imagine going down to the ATM and withdrawing some of your mining profits for straight cash? Or getting some online cash completely anonymously for straight cash? Doesn't it make sense to have an automated interface between the digital cash which is bitcoin and the meatspace cash which is... cash?
In the past the Bitcoin ATM was not taken seriously, because we didn't have this trouble with interfacing banks with the exchanges, and a credit card was seen as a better option which again has proved difficult because of the banks, now we have one Bitcoin ATM on the verge of being introduced, but I'm not confident it will succeed because if it's tied into the banking network, I get the feeling they will pull the rug from under it again or regulate it into an evolutionary dead end. Now I may be wrong about this and good luck to the developers, I certainly don't *want* to see it fail and someone waste a lot of time and effort, I've just got a feeling it'll get stamped on somehow. But what's wrong with some good old market competition anyway?
As a way to encourage this competition wouldn't it be good to work out an open source implementation? i.e something that deals only with cash and bitcoins and doesn't interface with any banks? And if there's a clear documented building model open to anyone who could build one, and up to each individual builder/operator to ensure they are complying with any local money changing laws, and conversely up to the authorities to stamp out lots of little fires ensure lots of different people are complying with local money changing laws, then wouldn't that be a better way of getting this distributed? The rewards for working on this and building it would be your exchange fees, which you could charge at a higher percentage if you wanted to be greedy, until somebody else puts an exchange into the Moroccan Cafe across the street and drives your fees down to a more reasonable level.
I can't see it being *too* difficult to make one if it was broken down into manageable parts and areas of expertise, take a machine that counts monetary notes, make a USB to note-counter interface, add an android smartphone, write the software, put it in a steel box in a newsagent's or Cafe, with some concrete blocks in the base, make sure the proprietor removes any money when they empty their other tills etc....
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Socket mount approach also sounds very good. .....
+1 But such pcb socket could cost 100+USd x 16 chips...we can only dream. And we will say goodbuy to cooling as long chip is contacting socket only not pcb. pcb socket is good solution for a test single chip board or something like this. I like the led idea in general for production PCB for sure. We have to be able to identify broken/defective or malfunction chips soldered on production PCB. Bkkcoins can you put a comment here. 10X You'd use an oscilloscope for finding the fault. Really, if you can't do this stuff properly, find a *good* tech locally who doesn't charge the earth, it's going to be better than putting a partially populated board in a skillet and cooking all those valuable asics, it's common sense. I'm really not trying to talk down to anyone! f.e. I build my own audio gear and service a nearly priceless vintage sound desk, and I know my limits, I'm taking this project to the local SMT guy. |
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Unfortunately shops/banks and the like have the right to reject this sort of thing I think but the law might have changed since I last looked.
No, that link outlines what rights you have. They *have* to accept: £5 (Crown) - for any amount £2 - for any amount £1 - for any amount 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p If you offer to settle a debt by the above divisions then a court of law would rule that you had offered a reasonable settlement. This law came about because people used to pay with small change for the lulz. An acquaintance of mine did it in the 1980s, he bought a brand new Range Rover with buckets full of £1 coins. Thanks salty. I know I can settle any debt with the minimum of £1 up to any value but it is only a small debt and I want to just wind the guy up. Could you read my OP and see what you think? Yes if they don't accept your remittance offered in £1 coins + the rest of the change allowed, and subsequently take you to small claims court to get the money off you, the court would be satisfied that you had offered to settle the debt using legal tender and that they had refused it. If you try to give them 1p, 2p, 5p etc. coins only, you'll get a rollocking. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/shortcuts/2012/may/15/what-can-you-buy-just-with-1p-and-2p |
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What if a chip burns out? How do I replace a chip without damaging the rest of the board?
Will board support overclocking the chips?
Your local appliance repair electrician will be able to do it or put you in touch with a local SMT guy who can. I'm interested in the overclocking aspect too, I would imagine a socketed clock chip will be the way to experiment with this. I dare say there will be threads popping up on here when we get to that point... |
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