In an ideal world, I would have a “checking account” denominated in Freicoin where I receive my paycheck and from which I draw on for daily expenses, and a “savings account” denominated in Bitcoin. Does that make sense?
No. What problem would it solve to have a “checking account” denominated in Freicoin and not in bitcoin? Depending on the assumption that they somehow manage to force miners to include transactions: No transaction fees, miner income is paid from the demurrage. Since the miners will probably anyways need a way to know how much money currently is on each account to pull out their annual 4.4%, they'll have to create a huge number of bitdust transactions each block anyways. Maybe they'll need to include currently pending transactions for that? Anyways, the number of inflation transactions is likely much higher for a long time than the number of actual user transactions...
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And exactly that is a problem in my opinion.
If you were truly open to any price, you'd issue new bonds at 1 Satoshi each and pre-announce it, so the market can build it's own price in a bidding war. In reality you have some minimum price per MH/s when issuing a 1 MH/s bond (probably at least the price for the hardware + electricity for a year or so) that you can sell at. You don't set a lower limit to the price of buying back though, so the advantage is one-sided on your side.
1 MH/s in itself is not used to determine the value of a bond (the value is 0 according to your post I think) but only the dividends. People don't buy the bonds for their value but the possibility of having a ROI through dividends. Still you will not sell them at any price but can buy them back at any price, even if that would mean a net loss for people buying the bonds from you initially.
A more sophisticated buyback clause could also be "1 bond can be bought back at (0.3 BTC - dividends per share since IPO) * 1.2 (if this gets negative, this is assumed to be 0) or 2 USD converted to BTC at the 24h average market value, whatever is higher" - if your minimum price is something a bit below 2 USD per MH/s. This means you can still get very low buyback prices, but not arbitrarily low ones, will always have to pay up a proper amount for the debts you sold and it also tells that you initially priced your bonds in USD, as mining equipment is priced in USD as well (hence the not arbitrarily low IPO price).
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There's an API for outstanding shares now, so it's easy to find out.
The easiest thing to do currently would be to just gather a lot of shares (depending on the averagin/weighing used from Gigamining or else whoever has the most shallow bids), buy up all "more than 5% loss" shares and dump the price down to 1 Satoshi or whatever is needed to trigger the strike price. You could maybe even sell to yourself(?) so all you loose are 0.5% GLBSE fees and a few shares to some lucky bidders.
If you short these shares, you could even manage to make more profits out of such a dump action.
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This is why I'm now a strong supporter of "bonds have a certain face value and can only be bought back for that face value + slight premium". This is much fairer for both people holding bonds (they don't have to check every 744 hours if they can be screwed over) and bond issuers, who according to some contracts out there, would have a VERY hard time to reduce their debts.
But the face value of a mining bond is 1 MH/s. Nobody can place a fixed BTC price on it, this is determined by the market and is constantly changing - if I buyback the bonds 10 years from now I don't want it to be based on the original issue price, but rather on their value at the time. All that said, I agree it would be best to introduce a deterministic "extrapolated lifetime earnings" metric (which I introduced elsewhere but called it "projected") and assume that the bond value is roughly a constant multiple of it, and base the buyback price on it (with or without consideration to the market price). I'll probably do that if I create a new bond series. I would argue that *the dividends depend on* 1 MH/s but the face value is the price at IPO. Even if the face value were 1 potato, you could at least hand me 1 potato to buy it back. Something that is a process and not a good can not be stored or transfered. I lack the correct financial terminology, but I guess you get the point. Something that might be close to what you imagine would be electricity markets, where you can buy/sell electricity in bulk. I don't know of any "1 kwh bonds" but on the other hand electricity doesn't generate money on it's own for dividends, mining does however. Probably a better equivalent would be selling bonds with a face value of 1 hour of sunshine on 1 m². Depending on solar panels etc. you can "mine" a certain amount of electricity and sell it on the market for a certain amount of money. Still you cannot control some external factors like the weather and would have to factor these in. Honestly I still don't think that an immaterial face value is any good - and that it can NOT be measured in money by taking a trade price point of the last few days.
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There are already french boards (though they don't have a "project development" section - the german one has for example though) and you could just use the thread title for more local/physical projects ("Person 2 person BTC exchange in ... on the 15th of July").
It might be useful actually to have a "local" board for english speaking countries though. This thread here belongs to meta btw.
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It seems to automatically issue more shares, but the website is out of sync a bit (shows 13 shares issued). Also you use a self signed SSL cert...
If I understand your chart there correctly, you are updating the chart on the left side (so oldest data is on the right, right?) - looks a bit weird to me. I bought 3 shares for 0.07829677, something that's quite close to the "Current Issuer Bid: 0.07673082" on the website - maybe you mixed up bids and asks there?!
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I would prefer if you create something like this that only includes assets within a certain trade volume range ("Startups - 1-1000 BTC", "Rookies - 1000-5000 BTC" ...) or a certaing background (""The finest Pirate selection", we already have a mining fund - but not proportional to all mining operations/bonds, only verified assets, "all but pirate"...)
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Special bonus to the mining operator, "The issuer can buy back the bond at a price equal to 1.2 times the highest price the asset was traded on GLBSE over the prior 744 hours." So when people realize that the dividend on a 1MH bond is going to drop through the floor and the bond value plummets, the mining operator buys it back up and continues on his merry way.
There is no way for the issuer to profit from the buyback clause. If the price declines to the point where the buyback is cheaper than the original issue, it means the normal obligation of the bond has already decreased. Also, the money was already spent on purchasing hardware to back up the obligation, the issuer doesn't profit from the decrease in mining profitability, the whole point was that he's indifferent to it. The buyback exists only to deal with emergencies, and there must be such a clause - "forever" is a long time. Actually there is, and I brought it up numerous times: There is no way to verify 100% someone really has the hashing rate in hardware they sold. It is even argued, that this is not a necessary assumption in the first place and profits could come from anywhere, as long as they are paid. With a crash in bond prices it is very well possible to profit from these clauses. Initial price: 1 BTC Dividends until a crash to 0.1 BTC: 0.1 BTC Highest price taded after the crash: 0.2 BTC Buy back for 0.24 BTC and be happy about it. Also, if it wasn't traded for 744 hours, you buy back for 0.0*1.2? This is why I'm now a strong supporter of "bonds have a certain face value and can only be bought back for that face value + slight premium". This is much fairer for both people holding bonds (they don't have to check every 744 hours if they can be screwed over) and bond issuers, who according to some contracts out there, would have a VERY hard time to reduce their debts.
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Just check it out on Blockexplorer/blockchain.info... ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Very good point. Are you familiar with most of the securities on GLBSE? Or anyone subbing this... what securities would be in the same category as what I'm contemplating? It'd be good to make a list and compare. Depends on which of the 3 options you want to have. A simple loan bond backed by pure trust would be Tygrr.bond-b (former Tygrr-bank) where goat gets loans from anonymous lenders and pays interest. TEEK bonds would fall into that same category. Something more sophisticated are several mining companies, even up to the point where you can request actual hardware (in the case of "BFLS") in exchange for shares. Then there are some shares that put up some collateral and pay small interests (GOLD, SILVER etc. - these are backed by these commodities, but not actively trading them or being denominated in them), up to a point where recently someone wants to put up his house as collateral for a loan/bond. Some other ventures either still have to take off (hello Twitter-ad-network "FZB", CPA, REBATE...), are operating in a little bit shady corner of the internet (TCC, BITCOINTORRENTZ) or were cancelled. All in all the largest assets by far on GLBSE are currently: Pirate pass throughs ( + their ecosystems, including insurance funds + dividend distribution assets for one big group of pirate investors), X MH/s deterministic mining bonds, funds investing in GLBSE assets and/or giving out loans and "mining companies". There are however some small gems, even including a (in the mean time put on hold) way to invest in parts of the earnings of a race horse in the US.
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Try the metalab for example.
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Company reserves right to buy back bonds at 1.5x the 5 day average at any given time. I don't like this part. I'd rather have a buyback price that is pegged to the initial value of these bonds. This can be priced in USD: Let's say I buy 1 bond for 1 BTC - you get 6 USD for that. You can buy back the bond any time for 8 USD converted to BTC - even if that means you only pay 0.1 BTC (if Bitcoin bubbles up to 80 USD per coin) on GLBSE. Otherwise you have a high motivation to bring down bond prices for 5 days (have sock puppet accounts tell you're broke and don't respond or something), buy back and take the profits. I don't want to check more than once every week(!) if my investment is still good... Also I don't really like the secrecy aspect - if you need that you might be better off elsewhere, as far as I heard there are several P2P loan websites available/popping up.
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I'd love to see how much I've bought my shares for and for how much I already sold them + dividends gained - fees paid.
Also, why PHP in the first place?
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Generally I really like the idea, the 100 AAPL shares limit is of course a bit tough (trusting you with ~a good motorcycle worth of BTC is a lot), maybe you can work on that somehow.
Also as mentioned you'll need a fast bot that pulls prices from wherever AAPL is denominated + MtGox and prices your shares accordingly. Maybe you could offer different stocks (that pay out dividends more regularly than Apple) or bonds/options as well? Also some that don't cost ~100 BTC a piece would be nice...
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In einer VM hat man aber üblicherweise nicht gerade optimalen Zugriff auf GPU-Ressourcen... außerdem ist die Verteilung der VM-Images dann durchaus eine größere Herausforderung (die aber eventuell zu schaffen wäre).
Problematisch dürfte dann aber immer noch sein, dass man dafür eventuell Software (Treiber!) verteilen müsste, die selbst in einer Linux-VM nicht einfach so verteilt werden dürfen. Außerdem müsste man sicherstellen, dass die VM NUR auf's Internet zugreifen kann und mir nciht plötzlich im LAN irgendwas infiziert, auf den Hostcomputer ausbricht oder sonstwie Schaden anrichten kann.
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I'd still like to know where the 0.11166 - 0.1016 = 0.01006 BTC per share from your example are actually coming from. Also I'd still like to know what you will do if these bonds don't sell at IPO or if you can issue additional bonds in the same time frame (it seems you might want to have MEI.DEEPBIT.A, MEI.DEEPBIT.B, ...).
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Won't the people who want their captchas solved be a bit pissed if a lot of people just load the captcha but decide not to enter anything? I guess the difference to dedicated captcha solving ventures and faucets is that people come there with different expectations.
I guess only a smaller part of people approaching this site would actually start solving captchas right away. You would need at least a page before where you ask for a payout address to continue before getting a captcha from someone else that needs to be solved. Also it might be hard to determine if the captcha really was solved correctly and you should pay out BTC, depending on the API of the captcha-solving "business" you use.
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Will it be possible to have a pruning algorithm/method that still keeps transaction hashes per block, so if I prune transaction "123abc" from my database, I still know it was in block 12345 and could request that full block from the network eventually? Or might it be the case, that the whole network pruned away that transaction and all that is left is it's hash (as far as I understood, that's how merged mining works for example).
I personally really would like to see also input addresses or at least a very easy way to get to them. What was a little confusing for me for example was the case when I have a input transaction that actually went to multiple addresses (10 BTC to 1bitcoin123 and 20 BTC to 1bitcoin234). How do I then easily determine which of these 2 outputs was used as input to my actual transaction I'm interested in?
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Where does the money for the dividends come from? Actual mining done by you directly or via contract or some other means (*coughpiratecough*)?
Also - as this lead to some issues in the past - what's your policy on issuing more shares/bonds/"floaters" and how will they be priced? If they are priced differently than at IPO time, how will you handle buyback?
In the end what I think you do is selling a mining contract for 10 difficulty periods that is dependent on deepbit's hash rate. Is this assessment correct?
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ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you? if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?
He's paying double dividends to lenders. I no longer pay double divident, I pay 50% more then the bond. Thanks. Well, to new contracts that is obviously. @HorseRider: He didn' put up any (significant) margin, the 1 BTC I charged is more of a test balloon if he's able to send BTC to that address I gave and to cover fees. The trade is more or less only backed by his word and reputation and can be enforced a bit by the contract clause that also his GLBSE account would be in peril should he not (publicly auditable) fulfill the contract. As the amount of the trade (30 * ~60 Bitcents = ~18 BTC) in my case isn't that much, I'm relatively confident on that trade going well (not so much that the actual trade itself turns out really profitable) and that he won't take the money/shares and run.
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