Minting new bitcoins is a secondary thing, without miners you don't have confirmations, and without enough miners, you don't have security.

Luckily the price of gear is still over the top and still, revenues per TH/s are still higher than back in 2020, but if things really start to get worse, like it going around 15k you will see a lot of offline gear that can be sold for cheap to guys with not so good intentions. This is my only fear when it comes to bitcoin, and reducing the regions where power is cheap one by one also plays into a dangerous scenario as it will be less and less hash rate guarding the network.

That being said, it's funny how despite my post with the actual law being the second one on this topic 5 pages later and people still think NY is banning bitcoin mining.

Sorry but the dates don't match, Bitcoin touched 40k on the 5th of May, but was already down to 24 on the 8th, before the mentioned article, for the June event, the crash started only slowly on the 12th.
For the first date, we have the terra fiasco which started on the 7th, for the second we have the Celsius and the market crash, both times far better than some random news about an inexistent computer.

Short story, nobody cares about a quantum computer.
The average Joe doesn't have a clue how bitcoin works, some don't know what a private key is and you expect them to panic because of an article that states we only have 0.01% of the computer needed to crack Bitcoin?

As far as I see this for me the theory is simple. People have more money to invest they put more money in Bitcoin, people have less money to invest or in the extreme case, they run out of it they no longer buy coins but sell them. Inflation just accelerates things, everyone was saying in an economic crisis with an incoming inflation rush for real estate, I've seen with my one eye how this did NOT work a decade ago with everything crashing around.

Yeah, everyone says to buy when there is blood on the streets but what happens when that blood is everywhere because everyone is dead? Easy to say cheap coins, let's buy but with a lot of people afraid of what happens next month it's for many cheap coins or food.



Satoshi didn't say a lot of things about bitcoin but people like to fantasize about what it was created for, in reality, it was just a p2p currency, ironically enough, almost everyone ignores the actual purpose it was built for and seeks to reinvent it by adding a ton of things no currency will be able to solve.

But it's understandable, a lot want to be millionaires by holding 100 satoshis, you've got to market the shit out of it.

Again one of those motivational topics, these things are getting boring, this ain't no church or support center, and no merit pond either.


I really don't understand how you can put the equal sign between spending time with family to replying to messages on Facebook and Twitter, if for you liking pictures and quotes and retweeting stuff means spending time with your loved ones I think you should be worried about your own view of life, not about your friend.


You're not going to like this but this is reality, becoming poor will also make you lose a lot of company, and forget motivational quotes or sob stories about how human beings care for each other, the reality is that once you're poor nearly everyone will toss you aside.
So you can have your choice work and try to achieve something or tweet all day lying to yourself about what real life is.

Well, took only less than one month to reach that, congratulations !


Right now everyone is panicking since we just touched it briefly, I'm just so curious how this will unfold from here on if the trend is broken if the price does go below some indicators it has never touched before this will turn into one hell of beautiful mess.
But I don't see it going so much lower, so...you know, based on my accuracy, beware! 


Lived through years of 20% and two of 40%, this is peanuts for those who have lived in the '90s in Eastern Europe, not even going to mention 3rd world countries who are used to over 100%. Still a lot of room left till panic mode!

But I do agree on the other part, despite what was painted for years, Bitcoin is definitely not going to save the poorest class and maybe not even the medium income one, after all, those are the ones who will run out of money so it will be impossible for them to buy coins or even keep them.  Happened all the time, it was the same with gold, the ones that had gold and were making a fortune out of it during the crisis were still the ones with money in the first place.
Bitcoin might save some persons on individual cases, a few out of thousands but it won't be able to protect the finances of a whole class or country.

Around 9 cents,  it might actually look worse than it is if you split the current reward to the hashrate as it's a really bad time for blocks, the daily reward dropped like a stone from just around 30 million to 18 million in $ terms.

Anyhow, one of the worse Mondays ever, hopefully, the hashrate goes down this and next period by at least 10%, maybe a real drop in gear prices as I don't have a clue who will decide to buy now, excluding the ones that have made plans for years in advance and are so deep in this they can't help anymore and maybe a quick rebounce in price, but this one I doubt it.


The above is probably misleading, last 24h we had 130 blocks, full 10% off.
Anyhow, again..... shit! 

The last two are litecoin and kadena miners.


It mainly depends on the power costs, then the efficiency of the miner, and then the price of the gear in order to get the money spent on the miner back in profit before the miner breaks or becomes unprofitable. The electricity price is from the start something that can turn people away, right no I would say even 10 cents is too much to even think about starting mining, then it comes to your budget for starting mining.


There is no "good and suitable" hashrate, there is just a profitable one.

Just as how 6 billion poeple managed to survive before 2009.
This whole drama, I can't use bitcoin, I'm going to die is just lame, according to a study I just read on a  topic yesterday bitcoin-related sources quoted a number of 30 million users, how the hell does the rest of the world go by? /s


Might do the trick!
Decentralized exchanges don't have your data, but that doesn't mean the one sending or receiving money from you for the coins exchanged won't.
And depending on the seriousness of the country that wants to ban this kind of transaction you might end up dealing with an undercover cop or the guy with whom you tarded might get nabbed by the police and from there all they have to do is go through all his bank/paxum/paypal whatever transactions.

I've always warned people that a trader is so easy to be discovered by a bank, just how many people that you know do 10 bank transfers to complete strangers all over the country each day?   All t takes is one to go down and every one after that is so easy to catch. It all comes to how hard the police want to catch you, not how good you're hiding your tracks.

If you have small amounts try to buy stuff from the outside or deal with close friends that might help you, if you have large sums, it's time to move away as you won't be able to cover the real-life wealth once you sell 10 BTC, how are you going to explain 300k in your accounts when your wage is 300 or worse than that you're unemployed 

Read my whole post, I was just making fun of pooya87 and his claims that bitcoin has no correlation with the traditional markets, for him everything that contradicts his belief is based on suppositions fake. Add the fact that the current moves are heavily influenced by the US market and he is probably having his worse day yet.


For a brief period, it looked like it was coming down, the graphs do show a tiny bump, well that is now gone and done for it, I don't know what caused that and maybe it was the traditional pause on Memorial day while the crypto exchange never close, but with the current events unfolding I wonder why anyone would even dare today the things are not interlinked like never before, even the time of the dumps of both the stock market and crypto exchanges were timed to the minute.

An interesting roundabout way of doing something.

They first went to the blockchain and counted "new entities" which actually means addresses of not known wallets that have received funds then cut out the "leaving entities" so people who have depleted their balance only to arrive at current users of 30.8 million unique entities (users) on the network right now, which hmmm, you could have predicted by only looking at the addresses with a balance over 0.0001 satoshi which, guess what is 31,047,646

So you had to go through all these mambo jumbos only to reach an obvious metric that ironically they also list on their website in their charts.

Also by that metric, I have some really bad news for the 1 billion targets, for years ago the numbers on the same metric were 24 million, even if we increase each year adoption by 10% (which didn't happen previously), the 1 billion mark won't be reached till 2037, so you need to reach pretty fast a more than 20% growth in usage each year for that.

Covid has nothing to do with this, Italy is right now just 400 thousand jobs away from the previous peak before covid, the difference is nowhere near the 2.6 million quoted.
Instead, it's a thing that's spread in southern and eastern countries, a lower labor force participation compared to others, for example, Italy has an employment rate of nearly 60% now, Germany has 76.9%, and the Netherlands has a huge 81%, it's just how things have always been. Far more people working on the black market, far more undeclared revenues, and unfortunately a different mentality with the young generation from country to country.

Also, despite the alarmist headline, things are turning for the better, and the statistics are far better than before the last crisis hit and not just for Italy but for the whole of Europe.


Don't know the reason, but it's an Italian thing, that doesn't quite resemble anything else in the western parts of Europe



13 million to 9.5 million, a huge discrepancy compared to the rest.

I'm getting pretty good at completely going the wrong way with my predictions, probably I should draw a graph on how I see the price for the next month and everyone betting on the opposite might make a fortune!


No more double digits! It was clear as the sky right now as I'm baking at 31 degrees Celsius that this shit was going to happen. 
Fortunately for my 100 times wounded pride it has been only two days, so again, starting to predict things, it won't keep this pace, I guess, I hope!

That aside, both Canaan and bitmain have lowered the price, I don't know how real that 51% discount is when it comes to Canaan but all those ~100th models are down. Interestingly no change in the hydro with 2023...2023! delivery! Is anyone planning to expand?

You haven't seen any accusations?
You haven't seen thousands of people chaining themselves to the fences of factories, blocking access to mines, protesting every day in front of companies' offices?
Do you know what extra taxes are imposed on the extraction of raw materials for transportation on the energy bill?
Do you know how much money some of that pay in green certificates to keep producing stuff?

I just have to admire the level of basis some have here, after 3 years in which everyone was saying bitcoin mining is green, bitcoin mining is doing now with only renewables somehow everyone now is angry that a bill states the same as they were shouting, mine only with green energy or don't mine! What happened to those 80-90% percentages, where those just lies feed through laser eyes to the gullible masses for another pump?

The other thing is that some still want to compare bitcoin mining with some industries, let's compare bitcoin mining with car manufacturing.
Tomorrow, in two parallel worlds one of them stops, let's see the impact on the economy for each case!


Show me that "research" and I can show you 20 cases of large farms using coal and gas, and you're free to try and at least match the one's mining with renewables.
Do you have an example of mining farms using wind or solar? I have tens with coal!

As for the whole bitcoin vs banks..


Been there, done that!

To all of you, stop trying to picture bitcoin as a thing that uses 10w and all those come from a windmill in Switzerland, it's not like that, a lot of energy is dirty, because it's CHEAP and that's all that matters for miners, it's also a bad approach to keep comparing it to banks, if Bitocin goes to 100k, the reward will triple, miners will put twice as much gear in place and the consumption will double, you're going to end up willing to delete your posts about comparisons.

The right approach is to acknowledge these facts and understand the economics behind them, the energy is consumed because it produces something that is valued enough to generate this usage, that's a basic law of a free economy, you can't have security trust and demand with nothing to compensate.

Yeah right, every day changing the scenario, it's banned because they don't like it, it's banned because they like it too much, it is banned because they don't have euros and dollars, let's go on a different topic and Russia swims in euros and dollars because of oil exports, changing the narrative as the propaganda requires.

The mess the CB has done trying to prop the currency, create a bulletproof capital control and restrict money flow has led to some hilarious situations that remind us of the start of the Venezuelan crisis, probing the ruble artificially too much leads the merchants to demand the equivalent price in the actual exchange rate, not the one authorities claims so you end up with imported goods, despite being from outside western Europe being the most expensive in the worlds:
https://newsfounded.com/russia/today-russia-has-the-most-expensive-car-in-the-world-list-of-evidence-autonews/


This is because well, nobody gives a damn about the fake rate, and every merchant puts the price at the real rate they would get euros for rubles, this is a somewhat twisted version of the PPP indicator but with these prices, you can actually calculate the real rate of the ruble.


Usually, the more hated the US is in one country the more liked the dollar is, as a European it's a real slap on the face going to a completely non us friendly country and seeing everyone accepting dollars but not euros and the hotel owner telling you how they love Europe...

Education fixes everything



The fertility rate in South America and Asia has dropped just around, in a few cases below the replacement rate, Africa is just a decade or two behind but it will soon stop growing like this pretty soon as the spread of information is far faster than in the '60s and it's far easier to educate people now with a laptop and wifi rather than going through 100 km of the jungle without a proper map, road and on top of that search for volunteers to risk their lives in yet half unknown territory.

And btw, China population might go down next year, which combined with other countries starting to experiment the same will also counter the growth elsewhere.
But, the main thing is that 1/3 of the world still relies on manual labor, and around 10% on animal-assisted farming from horses to buffaloes. Investment in these parts and modern technology could help us produce food for around 14 billion people, now we could theoretically feed 9 but due to waste, we're here!


I wonder who still believes that fairytale about people coming together when at the first sign of panic a lot of countries have banned food exports to protect their own, in case of a famine happening money will dictate everything, the ones that can afford to pay one cent more will get their loaf of bread the ones who can't have any other hope than somebody who can pay will donate that food to them and not to somebody else.

Not at all!
First, at one point, you had 100 000 000 000 000 ZWL being worth 40 cents.
Now you have 1000 satoshi being worth 30 cents.
Far easier to deal with it.


Again, there is no such thing as affordable currency.
One piece of bread is more affordable than one if one costs 1$ and the other costs 2$ for the same weight.
You're comparing the base value of a denomination, which is irrelevant.  If everyone would love affordable currencies why is nobody buying 1 billion bolivars or rials as reserves instead of 1 billion dollars? Because they are garbage, just like garbage, affordable but worth zero, just as much as you've paid for it.

Fewer buyers at those exaggerated prices, you can check the prices when the s19 and s19pro were launched , around 3000$ for the pro and at that time users said it was too much.
The current prices don't reflect the price of the gear itself but the revenue it will bring, and with the income per TH/s dropping from 30 cents a year ago to 13 about now, it's obviously not so many wanted gear that would ROI in 3+ years.

Anyhow, back to your main question, nobody will be able to give you an answer if they don't know, how much you pay for kwh, how much power you have available if you pay 2cents for example, how much money you have to invest, you have a place for those miners or you're going to mine at home?
If the first answer is 20cents/kwh or more I say forget about it.

That worked wonders for both the Bolivar and the Zimbabwe dollar.
How many trillions of "money" you want?


This is a new one, an affordable currency.
The currency itself is a measure of wealth or purchasing power, you can't use the term affordable currency.
Is the Vietnamese dong affordable, yes it is compared to the British pound, you can have thousands of it but in the end with a single one you can't buy anything.


This part is true, those who don't want to use bitcoins are free to use other cryptocurrencies, and nobody is forcing anyone to use Bitcoin.
Btw, it terra/luna affordable?  

This was probably one of the largest flops when starting their advertisement here, as much as I respect Canaan for their gear I seriously don't understand what was going through their heads to create 4 accounts here and bump topics with their links, including the telegram channel while they didn't have a single link from the original shop to it.
Of course everyone would become suspicious of this, especially here where fake telegram and fake shops pop up every week.


Nice, I was planning to send one too but I saw they finally added the telegram link to their original shop so it all finally started to make sense.

Well, canaan, good luck with your sales, it's nice to have a manufacturer with an active topic here.

Next time rather than going with your gut, remember this, there are currently only two somewhat legitimate cloud mining websites that might get you some profit if all the planets or at least 6-7 of them align, I'm not going to recommend any of them, first is genesis and they are anyhow not accepting new orders and the other is bitdeer , owned by bitmain. How profitable it is, you can do the math yourself, ignore the fancy numbers they claim, you're wasting thousands for pennies. The fact that the only one that was a bit legit ended it's program (viabtc), is a clear sign cloud mining is nearly dead.

Hashrate Fee  $0.0602/T/D
Electricity Fee $0.0531/T/D
Static Output  $0.1291/T/D

1.5 cents profit per TH a day, and you pay 10$ for 180 days.