R&D at BFL was paid for by venture capitalists. All deposit money's are safe. Been documented for long time.
But in the interest of fairness, you have a good point. Diversified investing is always a good idea and miners should also be encouraged to purchase and trade BTC. IMHO
Being "documented" suggests that there is some hard evidence somewhere, which there is not (at least not for public consumption). A more accurate phrase would be that it has been "stated" for a long time. |
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Member since: 2012-12-08
Location: Canada
ID verification: Not verified. Totally reliabelz. On another note, sup with the 4x shipping costs "worldwide" (including US)? Come on guys, you want to scam Americans, at least get our hopes up with cheap shipping costs. Good Q about escrow, I was wondering that myself. |
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Well, we seem to have slipped away from the original conversation a bit, which I worried about. These are not PSUs for ultra-gaming or GPU-miner rigs. This conversation started out by crazyates assertion that the choice for BTCFPGA customers would be either dishing out $200 or blowing their bAsics to kingdom-come, and an agreement that any $50 PSU would be worthless. I simply wanted to step in and clarify that in fact for the smaller consumer, running 2-3 bASICs, that you could indeed find a $50 PSU capable of handling the (potential) power requirements without any serious risk of melting your expensive investment. You could (and should) go for a slightly higher level PSU, but it isn't a lost cause without. I am a man who believes in the right tool for the right job, and as such if I need 300Watts I won't buy an 800W PSU, but when I have some crazy tri-fire setup and need 800Watts I certainly would not recommend a 300W PSU. The kingwin lazer is a decent enough PSU for that environment. I personally probably wouldn't use it for my bASICs (had I any), but I'm a bit of a snob. I still contend that running a PSU for bASICs will be something of a hassle, but it's not a huge sticking point, especially cost-wise. |
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I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks". I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up...... I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it. While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"  I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU This is a bit off-topic, but I'm a hardware geek so I enjoy discussing. If you burnt a mobo/GPU/CPU on a $50 PSU, you didn't do your homework on the PSU. Depending on your power needs, the following < $50 PSUs are more than quality enough to deliver what they promise on their label (not for 10 bAsics, but easily 1+): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 (my slightly biased favorite < $50 PSU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090 (kinda pricey but still < $50 and it's qual-i-ty) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 (dont ask me why you'd get 430W for the same price as 530W, I don't set prices, but they're both < $50) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 (another sweet SS, little redundant but technically a diff unit) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371003 (not a fan of this one, but it does what it says for very little $$$) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077 (ok last one I promise) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (last one here too) etc. There's tons more but you can already see I'm getting slightly redundant, and I'm getting bored. All of those units are < $50 (some < $30), will power 2 or more bAsic devices, have quality builds that you can trust your precious components to, and I think at least half of them are even 80+ or better. If you don't like computers and fancy gadgetry, that's fine, but let us discuss things honestly shall we? As for hassle, I certainly agree that it will be stranger and uglier to run asics this way, but it might save you on outlet space. I shrug as we don't really know what anyone will provide in the end. Well,I've been there & done that,regardless of any one else's experience's & will not use a "cheap" PSU,at least not for something worth $1300 or more.For a little web browser PC,maybe  Build quality is build quality dawg. I don't know what you think you're getting out of a more expensive PSU than you are from a high quality well-reviewed low cost PSU, other than higher Amp capacity. You're free to throw your money away as you like, but this is just not a sensible argument that price = component death. Not all PSUs are created equal. You can spend a lot and still blow up your system. This isn't personal opinion, I chose units that have professional reviews and known manufacturers of high quality supplies. As I said, if you've blown up systems, it's because you didn't do your homework. I've built & shipped 20 gameing rigs around the country & about 50 for friends & customers around my hometown.So I've done my "homework" many times over If your ok with using cheap low quality crap,be my guest I'll be getting cables from Cablez & using my overpriced,very stable,$180 PSU to power my 6 devices.With no fear of frying them Best of luck to you I gave you a list of ~10 PSUs, can you find any kind of information from a reputable source on any of them as to being "low quality crap"? My guess is you didn't even look at any of them before talking your mess about all the magical gaming rigs you've built. The Earthwatts won an Editors Choice Award from Anandtech (hardware review site), 3 are SeaSonics a leader in the field, the Rosewill Green Series earned a hardware secret Gold level award, the NeoEco has a long history of outstanding quality and performance, etc. Seems like you clearly didn't even bother to take one look at what you were responding to, so it seems that one of us has done their homework, and I'll leave it to posterity to eek out which of us it is. Best of luck to your friends you built rigs for, hope they didn't get some $150 Thermaltake Black Widow PSUs. since you seem to feel that price makes quality (this is one of the most wretched line of PSUs). |
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I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks". I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up...... I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it. While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund" I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU This is a bit off-topic, but I'm a hardware geek so I enjoy discussing. If you burnt a mobo/GPU/CPU on a $50 PSU, you didn't do your homework on the PSU. Depending on your power needs, the following < $50 PSUs are more than quality enough to deliver what they promise on their label (not for 10 bAsics, but easily 1+): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 (my slightly biased favorite < $50 PSU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090 (kinda pricey but still < $50 and it's qual-i-ty) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 (dont ask me why you'd get 430W for the same price as 530W, I don't set prices, but they're both < $50) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 (another sweet SS, little redundant but technically a diff unit) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371003 (not a fan of this one, but it does what it says for very little $$$) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077 (ok last one I promise) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (last one here too) etc. There's tons more but you can already see I'm getting slightly redundant, and I'm getting bored. All of those units are < $50 (some < $30), will power 2 or more bAsic devices, have quality builds that you can trust your precious components to, and I think at least half of them are even 80+ or better. If you don't like computers and fancy gadgetry, that's fine, but let us discuss things honestly shall we? As for hassle, I certainly agree that it will be stranger and uglier to run asics this way, but it might save you on outlet space. I shrug as we don't really know what anyone will provide in the end. Well,I've been there & done that,regardless of any one else's experience's & will not use a "cheap" PSU,at least not for something worth $1300 or more.For a little web browser PC,maybe Build quality is build quality dawg. I don't know what you think you're getting out of a more expensive PSU than you are from a high quality well-reviewed low cost PSU, other than higher Amp capacity. You're free to throw your money away as you like, but this is just not a sensible argument that price = component death. Not all PSUs are created equal. You can spend a lot and still blow up your system. This isn't personal opinion, I chose units that have professional reviews and known manufacturers of high quality supplies. As I said, if you've blown up systems, it's because you didn't do your homework. |
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Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin.
That won't help. No matter how many BTC you sent them, you'll get 100 BTC back today if you cancel. Early pre-order people are screwed. Oh really, they send you back the equivalent exchange rate amount of coins rather than the number of coins you paid? That's a shame. Then yeah, nevermind. Some people will do ok, some people will be boned. Guess it's good that they have a "you win some you lose some" attitude. |
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At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.
Oh, but you did. If you bought a Single, you spent rougly 200 BTC for a place in line, and when BFL starts shipping, they'll go through all pre-orders pretty quick. Someone ordering today will get their rig at nearly the same time, but it'll only cost them 100 BTC. BFL suckered you into giving them an extra 100 BTC for nothing. That's an interesting (albeit somewhat harsh) way of looking at it. So is an early pre-order spot worth 100+BTC? I wonder... Assuming that BFL can put out about 21THash / week (their claim), you would need to be roughly within the first 2 batches to go out for it to be worth the 100BTC hole you start out with, assuming that BFL ships first, and capacity goes online in discret 21THash chunks/week, rather than continuous addition as they suggest they will do after first batch of ?? Thash. Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin. Does Tom suffer from this same issue? #s wise, the third batch only makes roughly 96BTC back before the late order comes online. This is of course subject to a great deal of supposition regarding timing of orders, and rate of fulfillment |
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It says Peak 4W, continuous 2W, so... take as you will.
I wouldn't go heavily investing in them myself, they've taken the existing "high efficiency stove" which was developed as a give-away to help people in 3rd world countries be able to extend their fuel (wood) and lower their carbon emissions, and slapped on some sort of Thermal generator. Why I don't think that will make them take off, is that most 1st world campers, the ones able to afford $150 for a stove, do not cook using wood, they likely bring a controlled source like propane. The people who really need the extended wood-burning efficiency have absolutely no need for USB charging for iPods, nor can they really afford $150 for a stove that other organizations are trying to get funding to give away.
So I expect it to find some traction as a novelty but not as a serious product.
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By putting in your 2 bit cents now, they are only worth a fraction of what they would be in the future.
I kid, but anyway, I see both sides. One of bit coins biggest problems is proper valuation. How do you run a business when you can't hold the currency you are transacting in, because it can double or halve in a couple months time?
Just suck it up, or cash out to fiat I guess. You gotta roll with the punches sometimes.
But the point people are making is that taking money from people months in advance of product existence has cost those people money. They could have simply taken a deposit as promise against the full cost when product was ready (which is standard).
So both sides have merit.
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Sup. Text. Keep in mind that the calculation for return on investment and, therefore the definition, can be modified to suit the situation -it all depends on what you include as returns and costs. The definition of the term in the broadest sense just attempts to measure the profitability of an investment and, as such, there is no one "right" calculation. most people on these forums mean break even when they say roi, if that helps |
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Fugly rig, but I love the ram name. "good ram". classic
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Thanks, you said it far more expertly than I ever could have ck  . But that was what I was driving at, you can use just about anything, phoenix, diablo. Gui might be simplest tho. |
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You can change how hard you run the cards while mining, to decrease the "torture". Since you're not going to produce hardly any hash, not much reason to run high stress level hashing.
You can mine with anything, cgminer, guiminer, etc
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I keep hearing about double dipping from manufacturers but is here any evidence? I think Organofcorti has a chart which would detect that and so far nothing. I don't think it is in the manufacturer's interest to mine. 51% = btc death = no money :,(
No, there is no evidence, as there is no evidence that any bitcoin asics exist, which would render such impossible at the current time. Double dipping could only occur when product exists, it does not require any manufacturer take 51%, simply that they bring online their excess stock, to make money off both sales and unsold stock. What % they would take in the long term is unknown, perhaps in the end you will see 23% / 23% / 23% /23% / 8% split between asic manufacturers with 8% for customers. No worries about 51% there, and a cool 3.6 mill for each manufacturer per year at current prices. |
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Figures... how come lifetime warranties never actually last a lifetime? They should be called product life warranties.
Lifetime of the product, not your lifetime. Lifetime of the product line. Lifetime of the product would actually be an even smarter and more evil Warranty... "Hey my product broke but it's under lifetime warranty so please replace it" "Sorry Sir, lifetime warranty means the lifetime of the product, since your product is now technically dead, that means the warranty has expired" Regardless we should stop using Lifetime warranties, as it is misleading, doubly so in an industry that will have ridiculously short product line lifetimes. |
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Poor Avalon, those guys never get any love... But none of that can happen until Zerlan and his competitors deliver their chips. All the most credible-looking ASIC projects have experienced delays and retreated from initial promises that their products would ship in late 2012, citing technical difficulties. Guess they're not credible-looking. |
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I believe if you have a certain amount of funds transferred via Dwolla, that will be reported to the IRS (As Paypal transactions over a certain $ or qty are).
Nice thing is my accountant handles it.
But that's only on coins sold for US currency.
What a weirdly random reply. Well as for the 8990, it says that it is expected to release 2nd quarter of 2013, and cost > $1000, unless something truly cataclysmic happens to ASICs, doesn't look like it'll come out before ASICs, and if it did somehow you'll see one hell of a long time to pay off that bad boy by mining. Though it looks like it might be able to pull off 2GH/s? That woulda been fun back in the day |
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Yeah there are tons of mini android devices out there, in that price range, all pretty nice.
I'd be interested in seeing more tablet linux distros. Built-in screen, wifi, power CPU, and usually at least some form of USB input that you could hook up to a hub, would make it a pretty nice low-power all-in-one solution. Prices will have to come down a bit though to make it competitive.
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I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks". I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up...... I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it. While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund" I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU This is a bit off-topic, but I'm a hardware geek so I enjoy discussing. If you burnt a mobo/GPU/CPU on a $50 PSU, you didn't do your homework on the PSU. Depending on your power needs, the following < $50 PSUs are more than quality enough to deliver what they promise on their label (not for 10 bAsics, but easily 1+): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 (my slightly biased favorite < $50 PSU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090 (kinda pricey but still < $50 and it's qual-i-ty) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 (dont ask me why you'd get 430W for the same price as 530W, I don't set prices, but they're both < $50) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 (another sweet SS, little redundant but technically a diff unit) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371003 (not a fan of this one, but it does what it says for very little $$$) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077 (ok last one I promise) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (last one here too) etc. There's tons more but you can already see I'm getting slightly redundant, and I'm getting bored. All of those units are < $50 (some < $30), will power 2 or more bAsic devices, have quality builds that you can trust your precious components to, and I think at least half of them are even 80+ or better. If you don't like computers and fancy gadgetry, that's fine, but let us discuss things honestly shall we? As for hassle, I certainly agree that it will be stranger and uglier to run asics this way, but it might save you on outlet space. I shrug as we don't really know what anyone will provide in the end. |
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Did you have any content to add besides the definition of ASIC and your 2c of "hey Im a newbie and you should trust me !!!".
To be exact this is what he is saying. What I'm not allowed to answer OP without being berated? I can only interpret his words to keep communication clear, I can't speak to his motivations. To return to topic, I would still say that it is worth it if you can get in anywhere in the first 30million difficulty, and you enjoy caretaking magical boxes. After that, you're at much risk. |
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