Ethereum (the company) is not offering any equity for sale, so I doubt they are afoul of any laws. They are asking for donations, and in exchange for donations they will be handing out widgets and wingdings. Those widgets and wingdings may or may not end up being worth any money. That's the risk you take.
FWIW, I'm seeing "$36 million" thrown around a lot in this thread. At today's BTC prices ($800), assuming Ethereum raises the maximum of 30,000 BTC, that would be $24 million.
The great thing about open source software is that anybody can modify it and create a "fork." Some people are suggesting that investors are fools, because as soon as the client is released, people will just fork a "free" version of the client and reap all the benefits. You're partially right...the client will undoubtedly be copied and forked by enterprising individuals. But hasn't the same thing happened to the bitcoin client? Yet the underlying value of "the real thing" hasn't diminished as a result.
On a side note, I've been lurking on this forum for months...I originally started mining LTC in December and then switched to middlecoin and began following that thread, which introduced me to bitcointalk.org. I was initially overwhelmed by the volume of information and helpfulness of the members, but then I noticed that many threads (especially the middlecoin thread) quickly devolved into flamewars. It's really sad to see a place with such potential devolve so quickly. It's like going to Wikipedia and searching for a topic, only to find that there's a 50/50 chance you'll be presented with vulgar bathroom graffiti instead of the article you wanted. With the current state of internet forums, it's a wonder that Satoshi himself wasn't flamed into oblivion before he even released the first line of code.
Quoting you to say thank you for using reason and not spreading FUD. |
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Well I'm going to call the US attorney's office anyways and we will see if they are filing the proper paperwork with the government to ask for 36 million. There is a BIG difference between letting miners mine a coin and buy and sell in a marketplace and advertising an IPO that requests up to 36 million with ZERO transparency. I would bet every bitcoin that I have that these guys are breaking a ton of laws in US and Canada.
Why am I so upset? Because, I'm pretty sure these guys are breaking a ton of laws. When you are asking the joe public for 36 million dollars, I don't care if its in equity or coins and advertising it as an IPO. There better be a ton of transparency as to where who and how and what. Every detail should not go uncovered and you are lackadaisically saying that its ok, there is nothing wrong with that, these are good devs they should be paid....something something revolution blah blah blah. Well, I think there is something entirely wrong with that.
Stop saying "you guys" to random users. I told you, I'm not part of this project. I'm a user on a damn forum who is looking at a project just like you are. You're on here making legal threats (against this project) and physical threats (you told me to kill myself). When you call, make sure you mention Mastercoin, Nextcoin, and every other project that has taken money from people. By your definition, all of these criminals need to go to jail. Also tell them we don't know who Satoshi Nakamoto is, so he could be a terrorist. And thanks for scaring the shit out of everyone, probably even people who work or want to work on Ethereum ideas. You're an awesome human being. Maybe go get a job where you can bully people all day. |
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Interesting project. The only thing I could not understand - what exactly is starting today? )) I've seen before this date marked as official start of project, but the IPO will be in 1 week only, so what will be today then? )))
My understanding is that the timer that counted to today launched the web site and information about the people behind it. They made a thread here. |
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At first I was asking questions in this thread but since I've read the white paper, have seen presentation video and read the details in the main thread.
The devs are not going to develop any applications, it's a fact. They only provide the tool for you to do it.
If that's what you take away from your research, you've totally misunderstood. A ton of the funding will go to improving Ethereum. In fact, all of it goes to that. Development, maintenance, everything. What do you think all these talented people are going to do with years of funding? It's to build Ethereum AND the Ethereum ecosystem. What they're saying in the video is that the community has the option to build stuff too. |
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so can i buy the ipo for like 0.10 or only 1.00 btc ?
Quoting from the white paper: "The minimum funding amount will be 0.01 BTC." |
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Right, because the sec has oversight authority over US citizens investing abroad  Who is to say they are incorporated in Canada? If they are smart they went through another jurisdiction. I still havent made up my mind on this project but your shameless shilling is annoying They're also not selling equity. They're selling digital coins on the Internet that have no inherent value. It's friggin' software. We also don't know what the exact offer is. If that's illegal, we need to shut down all of Bitcointalk. This gutshot5820 user is quoting random laws that have no application here and making wild threats to scare people - God only knows why. |
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What happens, if the founders also 'invest' in their own company? It costs them exactly nothing, and reduce the share of the other investors.
The investors must know exactly what they get for their money.
Quoting from vbuterin (Vitalik) on Reddit: "The organization will absolutely not attempt to increase its reserve by investing BTC into its own fundraiser." |
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Haha ! Even mah87 opened his eyes on this IPO and understood that it's total bulshit.
You really have no brain if you send any satoshis to Vitalik.
Ethereum is a copy paste of Bitcoin except that you'll be provided a tool that allow you do easily develop on top of the blockchain.
These guys are not going to develop any application. You will have to do it yourself with their tool.
This tool will be for free after the IPO.
Okay, good. You've made that totally misinformed point a few times now. Give other people a chance to talk about stuff too. If you don't like it, you've made your point, no reason to keep shouting it. |
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According to US Law, you can't just offer a crowdfunding of this type without filing the proper legal paperwork. This is a free market, but there are rules in place to prevent companies from defrauding their investors. Where is all the paperwork that is required? This technically could be construed as an entirely illegal enterprise and all the funds seized.
(1) They're in Canada. (2) They're not selling equity. |
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Bitcoin was revolution that changed the world, these guys are just hopping on the train and taking advantage of the Bitcoin community while crypto coins are still hot. It's obvious you are a tech nerd and like the work these guys are doing, but if they can't get money from a bank or venture capitalist, and need to beg to Bitcoin community to fund their project, while having no initial investment of their own, that sends warnings bells through my head. You have a right to your opinion, if you like then so much, go ahead and invest 100k and be an early adopter. If they were were asking for a few million to fund for expenses and a %percentage of pre-mine to reward them if things work out, then I would be behind this. But the mere fact that they are asking for up to 36 million is just ridiculous on an entirely different greedy level.
So anything that uses any idea involved with Bitcoin in any way is ripping people off? That's what you're telling me. And I'll have you know I'm not a tech nerd. I have rock hard abs and bed thousands of women weekly. I just happen to be taking a break from all that sex to correct someone spreading FUD on the Internet. The facts: (1) we don't know if they got money from a bank or venture capitalist, (2) crowd contributions != begging, (3) we don't know what they have in store (in detail) with regards to expenses, but we know that will be made public. Also, give them a damn minute to get all this information to you. We're on the Internet and the connection speeds can be slow. |
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So you think a bunch of guys that nobody verified their credentials or business plan can come out and just say hello invest 36 million dollars in our company through a self sponsored IPO and you think it's perfectly legal in the USA? Yup don't worry we are responsible, we've got a youtube video and a message board on [Suspicious link removed]ounds pretty fishy to me.
Yup, no credibility. It's all bullshit. What world do you live in? - Vitalik Buterin → Inventor of Ethereum, Partner at KryptoKit and Cofounder of Bitcoin Magazine
- Anthony Di Iorio → Founder and Executive Director of the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada, Bitcoin Decentral, KryptoKit
- Charles Hoskinson → Former CEO of Invictus Innovations and Director of the Bitcoin Education Project
- Mihai Alisie → Founder of Bitcoin Magazine and Egora
- Dr. Gavin Wood: Core C++ Developer
- Geff Obscura: Core Go Developer
- Dr. Emanuele Costa: Quantitative Analyst; SCRUM Master
- Joseph Lubin: Software Engineering, Quantitative Analyst
- Eric Lombrozo: Software Architect
- Max Kaye: Developer
- Jonathan Mohan: Media, Marketing and Evangelism (BitcoinNYC)
- Wendell Davis: Strategic Partner and Branding (Hive Wallet)
- Anthony Donofrio: Logos, branding, Web Development (Hive Wallet)
- Taylor Gerring: Web Development
- Paul Snow: Language Development, Software Development
- Chris Odom: Strategic Partner, Developer (Open Transactions)
- Jerry Liu and Bin Lu: Chinese strategy and translations (http://www.8btc.com/ethereum)
- Hai Nguyen: Accounting
- Amir Shetrit: Business Development (Colored Coins)
- Steve Dakh: Developer (KryptoKit)
- Kyle Kurbegovich: Media (Cointalk)
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You are crazy off in your calculations, 36 million to support how many guys for how many years and that is not excessive? We are living in two different worlds because I'm sure any venture capitalist would tell these guys to blow off if they presented them with the investment numbers they are asking from the public. You are acting as if this coin will actually survive in the long run. Every coin forum I have been to has a group of devs that think they have the best and innovative tech. You know what? There will be more coins and even better tech next month from the next group and so on and so on. If ANY coin survived in the long run it would make a 100M investment look cheap, that is a very lame apologist explanation. The chances of any coin to surviving besides bitcoin after the crypto hype is over is slim to none. This coin and every coin before and after it is a long long long shot to survive when the crypto hype dies. You can take all the technology you want and nobody cares except for tech nerds. The only thing people care about in coins is the ability to transfer money anonymously and liquidity liquidity liquidity. What good is a coin if you cant cash it out, I dont care what tech is behind it.
You're right. We should never think of anything ever again. This is the furthest humanity will ever go, and we've reached it. Let's shut down everything. Ideas are scary, and they're risky, and that's why we do them. I think it's cool that these guys are at least trying to do something interesting. That's all there is to it. It's novel, they're delivering code, and they're open about things. That's cool to me. |
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Sorry I had to post. I just watched the video and its true at 8.10 they mention some involved are from Goldman Sachs. I'm telling you do NOT trust this coin. I'm not saying you wont make money, in fact its got enough backing I bet that it may well be successful. But I can tell you now whether the founders know it or not they are being played by bigger powers than themselves. I was wondering when a bigg central bank connection would try to get its foot in door of digital currencies and here it is. You can guarantee that it was Goldman Sachs money that brought together an unsuspecting talented team to create this. Goldman is more than a bank they are the powers that be....The IPO even sounds like a shit IPO that Goldman has been involved in like Facebook etc. Buy it if you want, make some money and then never use this shit ever again...... I'm not shrill I have no reason other than knowing enough about Goldman Sachs and the banking elite that this has powerful elite written all over it. This is not against the founders I expect they were just rounded up and head hunted... http://euro-med.dk/bil/goldman-sachs-20conquers-20europe.jpgThe greatest conspiracy theory since Satoshi Nakamoto. Can we get this to the press?  Calling something a conspiracy is the easy way to try to discredit anything these days, yeah just lump financial corruption with aliens and bigfoot. Bright... Can I remind you Libor fixing was called a crazy conpiracy as was gold fixing, as was the NSA recording all your communications.... That's fair. I do want to say my intent with that was to be non-serious though. It's the Internet after all. I just think it's a bit crazy to start going nuts about Goldman Sachs because Charles said someone who worked for them (past tense) is working on the project. We don't even know if that person is just someone who is interested in the project (like any of us) and is volunteering, but we're happy to go apeshit at the drop of a word. We don't even know if that person quit Goldman Sachs because they hated it, that's a possibility too. You do know that bankers own a big chunk of Bitcoin, right? And what if I told you SN was involved in the intelligence community? It's all possible... |
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...I will definitely be calling the US Attorneys office...
Welcome to my Ignore List! +1 Dogecoin. |
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It's ridiculous to allow it to keep it going beyond anything more than $5Million , do you realize how much $36Million is ? You can build a large 5 story building with that money, in some countries you can build a tower.
I've got no idea. I'm not involved in this project - but according to posts above this, I'm a conspiracy too! I think the project is interesting, and I read most of it. It looks like people have become really fixated on details that don't even matter. Like how everyone freaked out about 1.2t coins until Canth used logic instead of screaming and pointed out we don't get to the hard limit of coins until the year 26k. If you look at what the people said who are part of the project, you'll see that the 30k BTC is a hard cap. It's pretty obvious that the project hopes to attract interest from a broad range of people, so it's not really that much if you add up the numbers. There are 0.25m users that have posted on this forum alone, and only a small percentage of people who will contribute will probably be from Bitcointalk. It's a ton of money for an individual, but for a large project, no way. But don't shoot me about it, I'm not even a messenger! |
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There is no hardwork on stolen ideas. By the way this IPO is probably NOT LEGAL.
THE ONLY THING TRUE IS THAT IT'S UP TO ANYONE TO FUND THIS ILLEGAL SHIT.
I'm not involved in this project, so don't interpret my words as support, but can you tell me how someone steals an idea? If everything is built and mapped out, why are you asking for funding? Prove and let your ideas work and then ask for money.
From what I understand, everything isn't mapped out. They've just done their homework and are pretty good at actually having a plan (a new concept to a lot of projects on Bitcointalk). There is an incredible amount of development to do, and that costs money. You can look at code that's been written, however, on their Github. |
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Sorry I had to post. I just watched the video and its true at 8.10 they mention some involved are from Goldman Sachs. I'm telling you do NOT trust this coin. I'm not saying you wont make money, in fact its got enough backing I bet that it may well be successful. But I can tell you now whether the founders know it or not they are being played by bigger powers than themselves. I was wondering when a bigg central bank connection would try to get its foot in door of digital currencies and here it is. You can guarantee that it was Goldman Sachs money that brought together an unsuspecting talented team to create this. Goldman is more than a bank they are the powers that be....The IPO even sounds like a shit IPO that Goldman has been involved in like Facebook etc. Buy it if you want, make some money and then never use this shit ever again...... I'm not shrill I have no reason other than knowing enough about Goldman Sachs and the banking elite that this has powerful elite written all over it. This is not against the founders I expect they were just rounded up and head hunted... http://euro-med.dk/bil/goldman-sachs-20conquers-20europe.jpgThe greatest conspiracy theory since Satoshi Nakamoto. Can we get this to the press? |
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If you want to invest wait until it hits the market. The devs are going to unload a ton of ethereums to pay for the shortfall in pre-investment money. I can guarantee you that. If they can get people to buy aftermarket fine, let the market dictate how much they want to pay for the coins.
And another thing you're wrong about. More FUD. It's time-locked. They can't unload until way after those who contribute. |
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LOL you are working overtime to shill today. Are you going to go around to everyone's posts and start bashing posters. You have the right in a free market to ask/beg people for 36 million and you are chastising people's right to complain or ask questions? What kind of jerk are you and how much do you get paid to be a board monitor in your attempts to stifle any negative comments towards this huge money grab by your friends?
Last I'm responding to you cause it'll just loop. I'm not involved in this project. In fact, if you look at my posts, you'll see I'm involved in a totally different cryptocurrency proposal. I'm expressing my opinion because I've seen you spread FUD over and over in this thread and it's drowning others out. I'm not bashing your posts either (you told me to kill myself in one of yours btw). What I'm trying to tell you is that nobody is asking for "36 million". I don't know where you got that, or what you misread, but it's just plain wrong, and if you just leave it like that, people will get confused because you keep posting it over and over. There is a hard cap of 30k BTC. They're not asking for that, they're saying if it reaches that, it would be ridiculous to allow it to keep going. They've got spending plans that will be made public that go up to a certain point, and I imagine it does not exceed that level, so that's where it's hard capped. |
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GOLDMAN SACHS INVOLVED IN YOUR PORJECT ARE YOU F... KIDDING ME
And you have the boldness to ask 30000 btc to fund it...
Only one thing to do : GO TO HELL!
Charles said "people who WORKED for Goldman Sachs" at 8:10 in the video. Didn't you hear him say there are giant wasps living under the UN building who are also involved? |
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