I have roach on ignore but would be happy to counter his misinformation in this instance. Bitcoin (per coin on average) costs anywhere between $1,300 and $37,400 to mine depending on where you are in the world. As you can see, mining is prohibitively expensive in much of the world (this is based on today's prices):  https://coinrate.com/cryptocurrency-mining-prices-and-profitability-by-country-in-realtimeAnd yes, not anybody can just start up their own mining operation to get "cheap coins." Most mining farms operate in the red for months or years before turning a profit -- they are invested in the long haul and weather unprofitable periods on the bet that the price of BTC will continue to increase in the future. Besides, roach should know as well as anybody that the market dictates prices. This is what gives BTC - like any traded good in the world - its premium. aside from other valid arguments, this picture cannot be right, and even if it is for whole countries, at least in US, there are much-much cheaper regions where you can mine for much less. With S9, you mine at break even right now at about 15.56c/Kwh. https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=13.5&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1350&CostPerkWh=0.156&MiningPoolFee=1US average is 12c, so you do the math (my calc (12/15.56)X12000=$9254/btc mining breakeven cost after recouping fixed cost for S9 at the average US electricity cost). Besides, we are talking about a machine that is a three year old tech. Newer machines have at least twice as better profitability, but they are still rare. That said, miners also need to recoup their fixed cost (machines), so as far as P/L, the numbers are probably higher. For example, current S9 (on ebay) will recoup it's cost (at 12c) in about 10 mo, but more realistically, later, due to difficulty increase. |
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It's difficult to think about these things, but look at it from this perspective:
Why bother taking the thinking that far? There's not a shred of evidence about Dave Kleiman. There's certainly not a shred of evidence about our fave hysteric. There's not a shred of evidence about any coins anywhere. There is some evidence (or at least I read about it) that there are about 1 mil btc in the trust. Not sure if it is correct or not, but if it is incorrect, then these Florida proceedings make no sense. They'd have to be over some issue (which I thought is the trust). Are you saying that the issue is made up? |
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I swear to god if it is proven that this F*ckup, Craig Wight, is Satoshi...I will sell my house/car/toys/etc, etc. Then I will go 'Full Jack Reacher' with everything I own in cash or Bitcoin and be an extreme 'minimalist'. We are talking debit card/toothbrush/Trezor in the pocket and there is the Total of al my possessions, and the clothes on my back. It's difficult to think about these things, but look at it from this perspective: it's january 1 and paper trust says that it would belong to CSW (if court does not say otherwise). However, he DOES NOT have the private keys, by the looks of it. then, we (and everybody else) win. It's like getting an iphone or Trezor as your inheritance without the password and every time you try a new combo, it would give you longer and longer time to enter a new try. See an interesting story here: https://www.wired.com/story/i-forgot-my-pin-an-epic-tale-of-losing-dollar30000-in-bitcoin/Hopefully, he would not be able to hack it, though. |
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This works for me:
go to the share (speaker button bottom right corner of the chart) button, copy image link and then paste here, with usual [img] tags (just higlight the link and press the IMG button.
Thanks, pal! |
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Mike Novogratz: Bitcoin Will Stabilize Between $10,000 and $14,000
I disagree. Please, elaborate. Bitcoin does not _stabilize_ until it becomes world money. We've not even started up the steep slope of the S-Curve yet. But even speaking to the short term, I don't imagine we'll spend more than a quarter below 14K. Well, I agree with this, of course (long term). Novo was talking about short term, I suspect, being a trader as he is. |
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Yes, that time point was even mentioned already at least a couple of times. Good news-it would mean unbelievable prices ahead (300K-500K) bad news-it would go to 7000-8000 first, which would be cringe-worthy for many. maybe we would not go and just stabilize for a while in the 10000-12000 range. That would be peachy. Of note, we are above the HM line (11445). That's better than I expected, personally. Mike Novogratz: Bitcoin Will Stabilize Between $10,000 and $14,000
I disagree. Please, elaborate. |
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Fair enough. Perhaps uninterrupted is the wrong word. But "straight line logarithmic" doesn't sound any better. There is probably a better term.
The best fit for bitcoin prices during 2011-2019 is represented by a logarithmic curve with a current time value of 11445? |
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If we can recover and hold above this line, this would represent an uninterrupted logarithmic bull market all the way back to 2011. Surely this is the impossible dream? This is why I am currently bearish. But if we break and hold above, then all bets are off.
Nice graphs and interesting interpretation. Why you call it "uninterrrupted", though? We seemed to plunge below the line last winter and only recently recovered only to dip just a bit below. |
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This is obscene, similar to what I imagine it’d be like to see your parents fucking in 30 degree celsius heat on a glass table.  Are any of you guys selling? What on earth happened? SOLD ALL. this was the lower high after 20k and the lower low will follow. same potentially incorrect logic would have applied in Nov 2015. Oh, no, lower high of $500, sell sell sell...derp. |
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You just don't remember because of a lower $$ value, that's all.
2015:
July 12 about $317 (about 2X from january lows)
August 25 $198 (about 38% drawdown)
Nov 4 (sharp peak at $502, went up almost 57% in two days)
Nov 11 $295 (41% drawdown in a week).
Cheers, mate.
But we are not talking percentages from when it was a few hundred dollars. Bitcoin is worth way more today than it was back then. This is not the same thing. It went down 3000 in a day..... Always talk about percentages. It's the same thing. If you can't handle $ value, then you are clearly over-invested, pal. |
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Prediction: we will go through $10k like a hot knife through butter, just like we did on the way up. Then the screaming will start.
I don’t remember shit like this in 2015 as we were leaving the Gox induced bear market. You just don't remember because of a lower $$ value, that's all. 2015: July 12 about $317 (about 2X from january lows) August 25 $198 (about 38% drawdown) Nov 4 (sharp peak at $502, went up almost 57% in two days) Nov 11 $295 (41% drawdown in a week). Cheers, mate. Source: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD |
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Going under $11,000 any second now, fuck you bears.
It's done now. Under 11k.  on stamp, kraken and pro; CMC average is still above, barely. |
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Going under $11,000 any second now, fuck you bears. This (well, half of it) was a joke, not a guide: if she would be right, can WO members consult with her about prices for a discount?  Cheers. I’ll take any of them but maybe in order -
3
2
1
Right to left basically.
I was thinking the exact opposite. yea, the right one, but these fine females are too hot for me to handle anyway...sigh. |
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ok am long again
for hodling Ok, for trading-much too soon. $8.6-9.1K is possible, even if very briefly. I am trending to "we were setup" by a 'premature' mini-peak. We will see how the tariff situation unveils at the G20. |
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"Men who can both be right and sit tight are uncommon." J. Livermore
BTC made it possible for a person who just "sit tight" to make a very nice return.
Almost everyone makes mistakes in trading/timing.
As long as you are bagging a 100-6000% return, don't worry about lousy timing that shaved an extra 10-20%.
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thanks for the accurate numbers. I see that it is counted from the decline, not from the previous run-up. yet, the numbers are similar (16.1 vs 15.8K). Interestingly, GBTC premium actually decreased today to 27.8%.
again two possibilities:
1. Maybe ETF is about to be approved.
2. It predicts an incoming correction.
Is anyone bothering to monitor a correlation with the premium? I presume it's considerably less liquid than the conventional markets so some spikes may not be all that logical. I do, but very infrequently. Previously, large run-ups in GBTC premium indicated a sharp short-term btc correction, like in mid June 2016, when premium was about 100%. |
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Interestingly, GBTC premium actually decreased today to 27.8%.
again two possibilities:
1. Maybe ETF is about to be approved.
2. It predicts an incoming correction.
Hoping for #1, although IDGAF about an ETF.
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Why btc is going vertical?
Two possibilities:
1. We don't know something important.
2. We are being played.
I worry about the second, hoping for the first.
This is not something usual.
3. It's just the baby steps and you are girly man. only the penitent man will pass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkGTyndJC1w |
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i haven't been active here in months and only barely watching the crypto space - but the timing of facebook announcing libra and this spike i was really close from what i saw. i just assumed it was that.
have there been any other major news bombs this year? satoshi revealed? sha256 broken? something with quantum computing or other mining hardware news?
man i miss the mining... i wanna get back into it. only have like 50 something gigahash though... yes, giga. it's old stuff.
If you want something silent, then I suggest this (Terminus R606): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131245.300if you want something more-plenty of used S9 for sale on ebay, although they are getting expensive: from $150 a couple of months ago to about $400 now. These make a lot of noise, so make sure you have an attachment and/or basement. |
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