Coins are removed from circulation, effectively placed in escrow when they are placed in an anonymous output.
We need to prove that we redeemed an output, without revealing which output was redeemed and a redeem transaction would look like a coinbase.
The redeem transaction destroys one of the anonymous outputs but it is not possible to know which one was destroyed.
It won't be possible to use the same output twice, as it would require a secret key which becomes known to everyone when the output is redeemed.
The zk-proof proves the secret key is linked to an output in the set, but only the redeemer knows which one. -SDCDev
No one on the shadow thread posted this. I gave them plenty of opportunity. It's an insufficient description, but a lot better than I got on the shadow thread. It looks like the idea is to use zk-proofs to circumvent public key cryptography. I'll find out if this is something that has shown up in the literature as the theory should be in place before the application. If the shadow dev had a citation to this effect somewhere on the OP, then we might be talking. or you could just wait about 15 days when ZK is implemented in shadow  Thus leaving your tech that wont be out till November outdated and obsolete... but its ok when ZK is opensourced Hondo can copy and paste that I'm not going to buy vapor concepts. Hondo has cited literature that outlines the theory behind his plans. The post above doesn't address theory at all. So my money wouldn't chase it. You can bet with yours. I like sure things. *cough* https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/879.pdf *cough* on a serious note, if you want to discuss or ask sdc questions come to the irc #shadowcash or the hangout http:\\shadowhangout.com or its reddit. Most activity is in irc though. Good luck with the XST technology so far. Glad your sticking with your coin hondo, alot of other dev's don't. Sorry to clutter up your thread a bit. |
|
|
|
Coins are removed from circulation, effectively placed in escrow when they are placed in an anonymous output.
We need to prove that we redeemed an output, without revealing which output was redeemed and a redeem transaction would look like a coinbase.
The redeem transaction destroys one of the anonymous outputs but it is not possible to know which one was destroyed.
It won't be possible to use the same output twice, as it would require a secret key which becomes known to everyone when the output is redeemed.
The zk-proof proves the secret key is linked to an output in the set, but only the redeemer knows which one. -SDCDev
No one on the shadow thread posted this. I gave them plenty of opportunity. It's an insufficient description, but a lot better than I got on the shadow thread. It looks like the idea is to use zk-proofs to circumvent public key cryptography. I'll find out if this is something that has shown up in the literature as the theory should be in place before the application. If the shadow dev had a citation to this effect somewhere on the OP, then we might be talking. or you could just wait about 15 days when ZK is implemented in shadow Thus leaving your tech that wont be out till November outdated and obsolete... but its ok when ZK is opensourced Hondo can copy and paste that They can copy and paste any open source code they want as long as credit and copyrights are given, which they have done so far. |
|
|
|
Like I asked on the shadow thread, how is zk-snarks going to be layered to improve the anonymity? No one answered, not even the developer. Instead, he deleted my posts. So I came back here and bought more XST. And I'm richer for it.
No1 uses the thread....... come into IRC and ask him a Q the dev is always answering He uses the thread enough to delete my posts.
Hrmm,
He seems to answer everyone else.Quoted from ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg8971700#msg8971700) I've got a few question about this coin and hopefully someone can give me some answers.
1. Where's the source? Looked at both threads, the official site, the wiki and either I'm completely blind or is it not open source?
2. What method does the PoS use? Like peercoin with coin age? Like NXT? Or like the newer BC PoS V2 or Reddcoin PoSV? Or maybe something unique?
3. Is the coin based on ZeroCash? From what I've read and with the upcoming implementation of zk-snarks it would appear it is.
4. Assuming it's based on ZeroCash, I'm wondering about:
4a. "They used a brand new technic called SNARK, which has certain downsides: for example, a large initial database of public parameters required to create a signature (more than 1 GB) and the significant time required to create a transaction (more than a minute)" - What does all this really mean and what, in terms of practical use, would it mean to users?
4b. "Another important note is about trusted setup in Zerocoin. In easy words the whole system is based on some secret values nobody should know (for example, this secret allows to make a double spend). How to acquire these values? ZC devs says: we can generate them and then "forget" OR we can implement the special algorithm to do in a distributed way at the system start (everybody know only his own part of the secret)." - does this issue also exist in Zerocash and (if Shadow uses it), ShadowCoin as well?
4c. "The proofs of Zerocash can be computed by a i7 single core 2.7 GHz CPU in a matter of 3 minutes" - What exactly are these "proofs" and again, what would this mean to regular users?
I really don't understand fully the difference between Zerocoin and ZeroCash etc so not sure if all this really would apply but maybe someone in the know could educate me.
Hi Viper 1. The project is open source, the link for the repo is on the ANN theres a little icon for Github. I can see how you would miss it though., we should probably add a link to it. https://github.com/SDCDev/shadowcoin2. Shadow is using coin weight/age. Any change to the PoS scheme will happen after zk. 3. ShadowSend is based on a combination of dual-key stealth addresses and zero knowledge proofs. The underlying technology in ZeroCash is zk-snarks, but the initial setup of the parameters in zerocash requires trust. Shadow is using its own zero knowledge scheme (proving a statement without revealing any information) and our setup doesn't require trust. 4a. In the WP they are referencing the initial parameters of Zerocash. Our system uses a different setup, so that issue only applies to ZC. All this translates to for the end user is that the ZC opts for a trusted setup. 4b. This is a non-issue because of 4a. 4c. https://self-evident.org/?p=995Here's a detailed video covering the differences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXU65XsLiFkI've attached this pdf for zero knowledge in laymen's terms: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mkowalcz/628.pdfAwesome, thanks for the details answers. Yeah, now that I look back at the OP, I can see the source icon there. I just assumed those were all some sort of wallet downloads lol So I was just looking up "dual key stealth" and came across DarkWallet. Then I came across this post of yours which actually laid it out a bit more clearly for me. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700087.msg8153845#msg8153845Am I correct if I were to say that ShadowSend is an improved derivative of DarkWallet? Or maybe that's not really fair to say as I can't figure out who actually implemented what first. lol So right now there seems to be I guess 4 anon "methods". We've got Darkcoin which one could argue isn't all that trustless given you need the masternodes. Then there's CN which, near as I can tell, is generally perceived as the only "true" anon implementation out there. I found it interesting though that one of the CN guys seemed to be saying ZeroCash was a more advanced method although I'm not sure if he also meant better. And then there's some other coin that will remain nameless that seems to be implementing some derivative of CN which they claim will resolve at least the blockchain bloat issue of CN coins. The Monero guys recently put out a white paper outlining some issues with CN that could potentially result in exploits. So, if we assume that CN is the "best" currently despite some of it's issues, what makes ShadowSend better and what are some of the issues with it. i.e what are the currently known Pros and Cons. Hey Viper, We're actually working on a overview that will chart the pros and cons of each unique anon protocol. Approaches that don't use zero knowledge either mix or mask the transaction by using nodes, pools or group signatures. ZK protocols make the transactions invisible in a way that only the sender and receiver know about the transaction. It would be the same as thinking of paying someone in cash and not keeping a receipt. The only people who would know about the transaction is the buyer and the seller. The other approaches like mixing or group signatures could be looked at as paying by cash, but using something like western union or a money order to facilitate the transaction. Although the transaction is technically cash there would be a way to figure out and/or trace the transaction some harder than others.. ZK and it's variants are the closest thing to a cash transaction in cryptography. A couple benefits of Shadow over CN would be a compressed blockchain vs bloated one. Shadow has a Simplified Payment Verification (SPV) system in place with ShadowLite (thinmode=1) that already helps reduce the bloat. Ok, thanks. |
|
|
|
So in short my tweet/post was to refute bob's fudding of Shadowcash and its tech.
Except you came on the XST thread to fud instead of just tweeting back. I didn't fud. And i came on here in response to my tweet being pasted in a picture and quoted on this thread. see this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681725.msg9053305#msg9053305 |
|
|
|
I just woke up. Am I correct here? Stealth addresses are open sourced code that has been fully credited and isn't Stealth send as a whole, which is the major component that is still coming later in November, yes?
I don't see the big deal here. Shadowcoin people should be happy. The code is open sourced and credited. This is a validation of a component in their coin. Not sure why they're in here being pissy. Our dev give's other coins tech. Hondo has openly been very pro collaboration. There is no ego in this coin and I consider that a strength. It's a community project that stretches beyond the walls of just one coin.
this As i stated in my post/tweet my issue was with bob calling Shadowcash shit, while proclaiming how awesome and brilliant XST is as a coin with their new release of "stealth addy's" which was a copy/paste of SDC code with a variable name change. The use of the copyright was acknowledged and i see it as a compliment to Shadowcash tech. So in short my tweet/post was to refute bob's fudding of Shadowcash and its tech. Its good to see XST developments and nice to see a dev that sticks with his coin, competition breeds innovation. |
|
|
|
WOW FUD explosion...Again This is so cool and getting very exciting. Again...
No need to FUD other coins for Stealth to succeed. Keep it civil and honest. The community will be more respected and that brings us all good things.
Thank you. |
|
|
|
... And made it better  Yea that 1 line of code change must have really been makign it better  The devil is in the details, pookie. THIS ^ and not just 1 line. updated tor + pos + stealthtext + stealthaddresses + stealthsend + cryptonote + chandran signatures + openbazaar 1 line  |
|
|
|
bahahahahahahah Stealth Coin is a Joke..... way to Steal Stealth Addresses From SDC and change 1 line to pass it of as your own...... Proofs in the Git-Hub guys.... how Pathetic  They didn't steal it's open source. They left the copyright in, so its a legit usage of the code. It's just funny to see bob calling sdc shit when they are using its code. Btw thats my twitter in the SS. I'm not trying to start a coin war, just calling out bob's blatant disrespectful tweet. |
|
|
|
Guys, what pool you use?
There is no pool, its full POS now. |
|
|
|
I'm surprise that this coin is still so cheap  Works for me atm, To mmany other people chasing that moneypot, or scam pump. |
|
|
|
Both terrible songs imo..put sail by awolnation! And i mean that in the nicest way possible..You know me  +1 to sail |
|
|
|
THIS IS HUGE NEWS.... CHINA is that chris pratt in the .gif? |
|
|
|
|
Please head to #shadowtest on freenode irc. This is the testing channel for the new U/I html5 release.
*Note this is for testing only it is not release ready version. Expect a few bugs, please report any bugs you find.
|
|
|
|
|
Testing the windows version right now, Checking for bugs.
|
|
|
|
Pssh, this is ZK Snarks.  |
|
|
|
Rhino coding,  |
|
|
|
Shadow 7 Billion Dollar market cap $1200 per coin, Yes
WhatApp sold for $20B USD.. Darknet is a multibillion $ market.. Privacy is big business right now more than ever, so $7B is not out of the question. This is a long term project with the end goal being market adoption with that comes a large market cap. exactly |
|
|
|
Not long now excellent. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
)!
