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441  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 03:04:15 PM
Time to clear up the many wrong statements that people are making in this thread. I am the person who made the first powered PCIe extender and who documented why this is necessary: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=44

Firstly, the current drawn through the PCIe slot vary a lot depending on the card. Dual-GPU cards usually draw more than single-GPU ones (contrary to what someone said). Here are some of my own measurements with a clamp meter around the 12V lines of a PCIe extender, while Bitcoin mining:

HD 6990: 4.2 A
HD 5970: 4.1 A
HD 5870: 3.2 A
HD 6950: 2.5 A
HD 7970: 0.9 A

So for example the 7970 (and probably most other 7xxx series cards, but I have not tested them) draws so little power that they pretty much don't need powered extenders.

Also, eroxors, most of your cards are pretty low-end/mid-end. They likely all draw less than 3 Amp or so because your most power-consuming one seems to be the HD 5870 (3.2 A through the slot). Even if you had 4 of these cards, that's only 12.8 Amp total, so only 6.4 Amp per 12V wire of your 24-pin ATX adapter.

But most importantly, whether the 24-pin ATX connector overheats or not depends a lot on whether the Molex Mini-Fit Jr. pins in the PSU 24-pin plug have a single or double spring. You can tell by removing the pin from the plastic housing and seeing if it has one or two pairs of "dots" at the end. This one has two: http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/Small/70090646.jpg The single spring pins (typically used by inexpensive PSUs) have a higher (edit: electrical) resistance and are more prone to causing the connector to burn out over time.

For example, in my farm of 4x5970 and 3x6990 machines from the old days, I noticed that upgrading from single-spring pins to double-spring pins pretty much made powered extenders unnecessary.

Finally, eroxors, you are right that the memory subsystem of Radeon cards (at least the 5xxx I tested years ago) is powered through the slot, not through the 6-pin or 8-pin power extenders. So Litecoin miners need powered extenders more than Bitcoin miners (at least for 5xxx and 6xxx cards, again the 7xxx series seems to draw so little from the slot, that powered extenders may not be necessary).


MrB to the rescue. Thanks for the clarification.

So powered extenders are:

a) unnecessary for 7xxx cards
b) unnecessary if adequate power supplies that have double-spring plugs are utilized
c) unnecessary for non-scrypt mining

I concede that there are applications that can warrant powered extenders, but stand by the "waste of time/money" designation. There is a clear profit motive for the product to be promoted the way it has been, which seems to be based on misinformation.
442  Economy / Lending / Re: 0.2 Reputation Loan on: May 09, 2013, 12:02:17 PM
This doesn't mean I'd lend him my BTC, but I think you guys should cut Bennet some slack. Even Tomatocage has him on the green list.

I gave him specific instructions that would have given him the best chance at a loan. Instead of improvIng his chances at a loan/credibility, he creates a half-dozen new requests on the forum. At best, he's extremely dense, but it's more likely he is a scammer. My guess is that this loan won't be defaulted on as it's in his best interest to land a bigger loan after a few "confidence" loans.

If he wants his rep to improve, he only needs to stop requesting loans! Then all the threads would drop.
443  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 06:35:42 AM
I see so many topics regarding powered extenders and their importance, but from my experience, they are a waste of time/money.
^This.  I've thought a time or two about creating this very topic.  I run 258 GPUs.  These range from 2 cards per board all of the way up to 6 cards per board.  I also have some machines with 8 GPUs (4 dual GPU cards).  NONE of these machines have powered risers and I've been mining for almost two years.

I think the people who are burning out their boards are either running many cards with *significant* overclocks/overvoltage, or these people didn't have good connections to their card(s) (which drives up resistance, thus driving up the current needed).

I have 7 different models of motherboards being used, also...

I have 4 card setups that have burned through pin 3 ATX connector on the mobo from the PSU

After 2 PSU's I use powered risers ...everything is LTC

Even when i started out i was buying old cards from forum members (noob mistake) ...they would mine BTC all day all night but would crash and burn even trying to mine scrypt

Even with 3 cards on risers and one on the board they will run for about 2-4 weeks and then cards start to disappear (i.e u will drop a card and suddenly its a 3 card rig ) you either have to bring another card back down to the board which starts to run into heat issues

So 250 GPU's is impressive ...but i think we can say we are talking about BTC only...either that or my 70 gpu farm is totally fucked in my approach

All new vtx 6970's (2 months old)
All New Sapphire 7950 vapor -x (2 weeks old)
All New MSI 990fxa gd 80 v2

I would love it if i was wrong but so far powered risers seem to be the solution ...I only got them 5 days ago and so far they have stopped cards falling off a rig and no more toasted PSU's

Intrested to hear any advice to the contrary

Interesting... I wonder if the memory subsystem is powered by the PCIe bus on all AMD cards or just the midrange.
444  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 04:46:35 AM
How many PCIe 1x do you use per board? Do you use scrypt based coins ? Do you have 5870 ?

PCIe 1x doesn't support as much power as PCIe 16x, 5870 draw power from the PCIe connector for the RAM and scrypt-based coins are RAM intensive. I have a board that ran for more than a year mining bitcoins with 5x 5870, 4 of them connected to PCIe 1x connectors. It died in two weeks mining litecoins (the 12V power lines burnt through the PCB).

I can feel the difference between sha256d and scrypt just by touching the PCB on another board of the same model. Replacing extenders with powered ones gradually decreases the temperature.

I have the same experience with 5970s: they don't seem to require as much power from the PCIe connector than the 5870s.

So powered pci-e extenders aren't largely unnecessary: the combination of motherboard model, actual cards used, opencl kernel used, ram and gpu settings makes it impossible to predict what will happen without powered extenders unless you already tried the same combination. If it worked for you without them, consider yourself lucky.

3x PCIe 1x per board, typically... yes, I use 5870s, litecoin on a few but not extensively tested

Good idea testing the PCBs, I'll try that out.

Prediction: you will not hurt anything using unpowered risers as long as you don't overvolt it or damage the slot in some way
445  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Avalon Asic chip Mini USB miner [Post if interested] on: May 09, 2013, 04:41:09 AM
I'm interested if: not a scam, and payment accepted in ltc.

LOL
446  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 04:02:12 AM

I think the people who are burning out their boards are either running many cards with *significant* overclocks/overvoltage, or these people didn't have good connections to their card(s) (which drives up resistance, thus driving up the current needed).


None of my cards are overvolted, all are either undervolted or stock. All are overclocked.
447  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 03:59:57 AM
How many cards per rig ?

4/5 cards mixed
5770
5850
5870
6750
6850
6950
6970
7950

boards
Foxconn Destroyer
Asus P5GD1
Intel DG33FB
448  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / powered pci-e extenders are largely unnecessary on: May 09, 2013, 02:43:54 AM
I see so many topics regarding powered extenders and their importance, but from my experience, they are a waste of time/money.

I only have anecdotal evidence, but I have used dozens of cheap, unpowered extenders with a multitude of platforms/gpus and have never had any issues, even when doubled up (2 extenders chained) or used with a pci to pci-e adapter card (only 35 watts of power.)

Maybe I'm just lucky? Maybe component quality matters? (ps/mobo)

Maybe a smart person can explain why my 30+ card setup has no issues with unpowered risers but others do?

Just my 2 cents.

449  Economy / Lending / Re: 0.2 Reputation Loan on: May 08, 2013, 10:20:45 PM
Come on, do you really think im trying to scam???

I absolutely think you're trying to scam.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191284.msg1994550#msg1994550

Why not ask for a loan via. Paypal or sell some things first to build credibility?
450  Economy / Lending / Re: 0.2 Reputation Loan on: May 08, 2013, 09:48:53 PM
Wow. Relentless.

In the amount of time you've spent trying to scam people out of their money, you probably could have earned at least that much working a regular job.
451  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Avalon Asic chip Mini USB miner [Post if interested] on: May 08, 2013, 06:50:17 PM

I've been tinkering with the 3D rendering in Kicad this morning so people can see what this could look like.

My current projection for retail price is $16 for a kit, and $25 for assembled - both NOT including the ASIC.

Please consider doing a 2-chip version. Downclocked to 256 mhz would be a really nice usb stick.

Pipedream, but downclocked via. USB 2.0 / standard clock via. USB 3.0. would be awesome.
452  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Ann]Purchase ASIC chips now: 1278 available on: May 08, 2013, 06:47:14 PM
To add on or not to add on, that is the question. Smiley
453  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: WTB: 32-bit PCI to PCI-E adapters (NOT extenders) on: May 08, 2013, 04:27:54 AM
Can't help you as far as getting connectors, but once you get them can you keep the thread updates as to how well they work?  The reason I am curious is because I saw a thread before about those adapters and people were having troubles getting more than 1 to work.  It would be nice to see if you can get em' to work. 



Hmmm, interesting. I'm using 1 right now and it works great, but I don't have extras to test multiple. Even if only 1 works per system, it's an easy way to expand capacity, albeit, expensive.
454  Economy / Services / Re: Wanted: WGU Referral on: May 08, 2013, 04:26:22 AM
I'm looking for a Referral to WGU which grants a discount on the application fee. I think that there are a few students here. Willing to pay a small tip to someone willing to help. Thanks.

Got it. Thanks!
455  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Will Avalon Batch 3 or raw ASIC Chips ship first? on: May 08, 2013, 04:04:11 AM
Chips. Fewer steps to ship, fewer delays.
456  Economy / Services / Wanted: WGU Referral on: May 07, 2013, 09:15:18 PM
I'm looking for a Referral to WGU which grants a discount on the application fee. I think that there are a few students here. Willing to pay a small tip to someone willing to help. Thanks.
457  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: WTB: 32-bit PCI to PCI-E adapters (NOT extenders) on: May 07, 2013, 08:17:24 PM
Bump... they are $24-$27 on e-bay and amazon, looking for cheaper than that.
458  Economy / Auctions / Re: [WTS] Avalon ASIC chips on: May 07, 2013, 01:13:05 PM
How many chips?
459  Economy / Computer hardware / WTB: 32-bit PCI to PCI-E adapters (NOT extenders) on: May 07, 2013, 01:38:20 AM
I want the bridge cards, not the flexible extenders.PM me your best price shipped to 64801.

Thanks!
460  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Ann] FUNDED ASIC, 5305 chips available on: May 06, 2013, 10:29:22 PM
I'm in.
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