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441  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Another Two Category Of Gamblers That We Are Not Aware Of on: February 04, 2024, 07:19:27 PM


How about you what kind of gamblers are you within these two types of gamblers, you should have a pick if you've been gambling for a long time I'm sure you have some of their characteristics.
Probably the action gambler because I don't lie often. If we would check the definition, the two categories are alike with self-esteem and confidence with gambling. Descriptions are both generalized which won't effectively include all gamblers. And I think anyone could fall on either category depending on their mood. There will be times a gambler would be energetic especially during profitable periods but will be having low self esteem in times of loss. Nothing's consistent I guess even with gambler's attitude not only with gambling outcome. Knowing these, won't be that much of a help  think other than learning prior informations. What will matter the most is how we would actualize our gambling habits. It depends also with the circumstances a gambler falls into.
442  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: If a addict lives within, which method would you choose to help them on: February 04, 2024, 03:08:48 PM
Depends on his/her personality. To some people being authoritarian would work more but to some it would be better to be gentle with them. But in most instances, it would be better not to push things givej that addiction is the concern with the mentioned subject or family member. Given that it is addiction, being harsh and forcing them to quit won't solve the problem. It will just possibly result to another conflict which is between the two of you. What you need to do is to understand the situation of him and not on your perspective alone. Things are not easy for people who are suffering from addiction. Of course everyone knows it is bad to gambling too much so they won't be in such state for nothing and that's what you need to understand.

Take it with small steps. Isolate and give companion on his end to enjoy time and eventually forgot the drive he was having with gambling. Things won't happen in an instant. Keep in mind that it is a family member to you which means you need to consider more of his well-being than to be too subjective of what is right and what is wrong that they have done.
443  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Are you a generous gamblers on: February 04, 2024, 01:48:58 PM
I'm a gambler myself but I never spend my gambling income to support a family rather I lose more than the amount I earn from gambling. But I wouldn't say that I am a generous person but I do donate some of my gambling income to an old age home. Although initially I got a good amount of profit from gambling but lately I have been losing a lot of money due to which I have not been able to donate to the old age home for the past few months. But if I win a big jackpot I will donate 70% of my jackpot to the nursing home and the remaining 30% I will keep in my gambling balance so that I can continue gambling later.
Makes you a generous one since yiu include giving to them on your plans. It won't be a problem if a gambler is not considering sharing of gambling profit simply because it is not easy to win in the first place. To some gamblers, profit in gambling is only for them to enjoy and that's just fine. Why? Do people around you share the same loss you suffer whenever you are unlucky? Sharing is always done with one's initiative but will never be something that will be required to every gambler, as others have mentioned and as we all know. Let us be fair. I knew someone who won big time in lottery. She let me know about it and for my first impression, I was a bit inspired and envious but never expected her to share anything from me. I won't like it in the first place to get things easily and prefer working hard for it.

Generosity comes in many ways just like with kindness. If you really feel treating other people around you after a win then that would be better but if it is out of your consideration then things will still be the same. As long as you did not get something from them to reach your goal then you owe anyone a reward.
444  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Future of Bitcoin in a Cashless Society on: February 03, 2024, 07:24:52 PM
Society and all transactions has a chance to happen in the future but I doubt that Bitcoin and other cryptos wou be leading the progress given that there are still issues with its adoption and that blockchain is not acknowledged in some countries due to its properties. Money is simply a system of exchange and there has to be an arbitrary with currencies to have a single one. Also, given countries and states are not one with the whole, then this seems to be impossible on the same extent. Still a long way for this industry in general but glad that progress is visible to this industry and blockchain in general.

Banks are now introducing their own coins which could be a conflict with the viewpoint that Bitcoin will be the center of transactions in the future. There are many possible chages that could take place as this industry grows. But I agree, co-existence would be more likely to take place no matter how I view it than to have a single currency which did not even happen in the first place.
445  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Investment in gambling on: February 03, 2024, 05:00:10 PM
What makes something an investment? The definition will create a barrier between the two because they're being misunderstood most of the time. Investment means there's a manageable risk wherein someone draws an assumption whether it would be profitable over time or years to pass. However with gambling, risk is present but not manageable to chances of winning but rather, with the amount you would bet so that's basically has something to do with managing potential loss; investment is with potential profit (most of the time). Being a gambler makes you an investor of this industry? I'd say more of a user 'coz you'd be the one to 'make' the profit and not the activity itself. Investments are things you will expect profit of by waiting over a period such as something which has value. Another misconception is with business. You could invest in your business but the investment in this instance could be people, tools or equipments, system, and the likes.
446  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: What remarkable thing have you achieved with the money you won from gambling? on: February 03, 2024, 04:05:24 PM
I managed to renovate my room because of the money I won from gambling. I don't gamble that much so I don't earn that much on a regular basis however, I m so happy that I still gained something from this industry. It is not new to us the fact that some people are in debt and in huge loss in gambling. Whether it is because they are being a heavy bettor or not, it won't change the reality that not all people would win big, and it depends on your luck which is something no one has control of. Given these reasons, we should treasure gambling winnings and to not let drive to be over us. Remain responsible no matter how much you win. Things could be lost too in an instant if you will be too greedy of things. Remember how gambling works and that should be enough to tame you.

What remarkable thing I achieved with money won on gambling?

None

Because I never won in gambling in reality. I won big amount sometimes and I purchased laptop and other gadgets using that money but later on I lose money that greater that what I win before so generally speaking I’m just advancing my future salary when I won and purchase thing using gambling profit since I will lose later using different money.

This is same scenario to all the story that you mention. They are just advance spending their future money on a lavish way. The only way you can really enjoy gambling money is when you stop gambling completely after you experience huge win.
Well, it has a point but it still depend on the gambler or the individual him/herself. You will still be able to enjoy gambling winnings if you would secure profit. Yes continuing will just result to loss in the long run but that's only if you will gamble that much. Imagine winning $2000 in a single night. It will depend on your gambling habit on how long would you be spending that amount. For sure you won't be losing for a month consistently right? 'coz if you do, you might consider changing the gambling game you are into or taking a pause sometimes.
447  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Another health benefit of online gambling on: February 03, 2024, 03:20:06 PM
How come it became a health related benefit? He just used another way to access gambling. Something is beneficial to health if it is necessary and if it literally helps your health in general or in particular. Not because it neutralized the risk of tobacco exposure, it already helped the individual. In the first place, tobacco product intake is not necessary and nothing is helped in the first place. Just staying at home will do, and the idea that gambling is not even necessary to one's health, quite creates a separation of thought that something or this activity to be certain is beneficial to your health as gambler regardless if you are a responsible one. You'd more appear to be responsible in my perspective if you choose to avoid gambling 'coz it could be another source of stress, given the condition he's in.
~ Betting with online gambling firms will shield you from contracting communicable diseases because you are all alone in a comfortable atmosphere. My neighbor's behavior has made me focus only on crypto casinos because I am scared of my health. Don't get me wrong there are many well-built and very comfortable physical casinos that offer quality services, but when you are an online gambler you will not need to worry about the health concerns of fellow gamblers.

I absolutely agree with you, in the current situation with all those pandemics around, an online casino is the best choice. Besides, you are not lured to gamble more by nobody. No one gives you more alcoholic drinks, smiles at you seductively and stuff like that that often happens in the land-based casinos. I wouldn't recommend going even into very comfortable physical casinos, let alone those stuffy places that you described.
Let people be. For sure they are aware of how their health could be damaged by gambling environment in landbased casinos in particular with vices. There are also casinos wherein cigarettes as prohibited which leaves the argument open for options. Casinos are long existing and things won't change within one just because you are being conscious with your health while having the desire of gambling.

We're all free to engage on whatever platform it is whether it is landbased or online, crypto-based or fiat based. We do have preferences and that simply means we may choose a platform that will suit our preferences to make ourselves comfortable playing.
448  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Will you invest on this kind of offer? on: February 02, 2024, 03:30:24 PM
I recently read this topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5483853.0 about bankroll and I become curious to know what’s forum member opinion about my wild idea on bankroll investment.

First of all, I really hate loaning for gambling because of the interest and repayment date of the loan so I think about a better way on how to borrow money without paying interest just to fulfill gambling.

Let’s assume that you can’t gamble because you don’t want to move your crypto outside your air gap wallet or your coins is currently on time lock stake.

I’m thinking about offering a bankroll investment. I will let interested user to invest on my bankroll and share profit. The advantage on this offer is I will refund the investment in case my bankroll loss since I will consider this a loan money without any interest. It’s either share profit or refund but the only catch is all investors need to wait for the certain date which I will set before the investment start.



PS: This is not real bankroll offer but just a hypothetical idea just to know if the community will like this kind of offer. This is only possible for user that has good reputation since trust is the main issue here. This method might help someone who regularly loan for gambling to stop paying loan interest in exchange of profit sharing.
Will be hard to actualize, first of all trust will be an issue. Also the concept itself is a  bit complicated; more peopl has access to fund, then the more it will be easily consumed. The idea is simple, if you don't have money to gamble, then don't. The amount we should be using in gambling is spare money as we all know. If you are being too pushy of circumstances then you should be worried that you are being too hooked with gambling which of course is unwanted to avoid addiction. If you are already willing to gamble a borrowed money, therefore you could also be on the extent of losing some of what you have or things under your properties, not to exaggerate but be realistic. Much better to be preventive of oneself to be in such condition or state.
Maybe. Youre suggesting a cool idea where people can pitch in money for your gambling adventures, and if you win, they get a share. But if things go south, you promise to give their money back. It's like a group gamble with a safety net. Of course, the catch is, everyone has to trust you, so building a solid reputation is key here. Make sure the terms are crystal clear for everyone to get on board
To how I understood it, everyone could make use of the bankroll. But if this is the case, that the 'leader' is the only one who could make use of the capital or bankroll then that would be more likely questionable. Given that confusion is happening, even if this is just hypothetical, it will all boil down to just gamble your money but be sure it will not be borrowed but rather just a portion of your income that you can afford losing by any case.
449  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling addiction does more harm than mere financial loss on: February 01, 2024, 11:35:33 PM
Well I think there's no need on knowing which causes harm more. Gambling addiction will really damage you finwncially and that's the primary thing to be affected no doubt. Health related problems will come next given that your time is too consumed by this activity. But with self harm or other related abuse, it is not evident to all people who suffered from gambling addiction so I guess it is just okay so say that it depends on the individual in such conditon. Actually I am referring to a friend of mine who was diagnosed with addiction in gambling. He was losing huge amount of money and experience extreme weightloss since he doesn't eat that much whenever he's upset with the outcome. He was uncomfortable doing other things due to the drive he is feeling to gamble. Violence I think, as its effect, is not evident although he was irritated in most instances when he is not playing, he still manage to communicate and express what he is feeling without inflicting harm to both himself and other people. Probably it varies to the severity of addiction.
450  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: To what extent have you hated yourself due to your gambling losses? on: February 01, 2024, 06:25:35 PM
I lost my savings for 6 months in a single night because I was too eager to win. If I can remember it correctly, it was the release of a new car and I wanted to double my money to buy it the next day. Unfortunately, things did so bad that I lost that much. I never blame anyone other than myself qbout what happened. Actually, up until now, regrets stil kicks me because that was a lot of money to be spent only in gambling. It just became a learned lesson however, an expensive one. Losing is part of the game and I am fully aware of that but there are just things and desires that would push you to your limits.

Probably my worst experience, imagine working for six months and saving just to 'give' it to gambling providers. No matter how I just want to laugh on the situation, it just still hurts the same. Eversince, ai assured to manage my bets. Whether I lose or win, there will be a limitation. Greed will push you to do things outside your risk tolerance. I accepted how gambling works that day and so far I am doing a lot better than my early years in this industry.
451  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Proverbs and Sayings that Act as Triggers to Gambling on: February 01, 2024, 04:39:50 PM
Well it is never wrong to take the risk to almost anything however if it is with gambling, taking the risk creates a new definition. And my conclusion? anything tht is too much, is a bad thing and that is simply how gambling works. It is a cycle of continuous risk taking. Nothing's bad as long as you can handle the consequences however as you continue doing so, the drive to just take the risk could be a drive to win and become rich which are two different things. From being a gambler for years, I could say that it is not the activity which is bad, but the intention and expectations the gambler is having, which manifests to a bad or worse outcome.

No quote will push someone to wrongdoings . It will always depend to how an individual will interpret and recieve the message. Gambling is simple however a gambler's goal is not.
452  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you believe visiting a seer or spiritual house could make you win a game? on: January 31, 2024, 07:41:57 PM
Nah, just in line with the other superstitious beliefs we haave as we grow up. Well, as long as it won't cost you a dime from doing so, then nothing would be wrong. But if you will still pay to support those beliefs which has no significance to the gambling game you play, that is where you will be wrong. Imagine spending a buck for seer or other people with same purpose in this topuc, and still losing during your bets. Nothing's guaranteed and they are more likely saying things which will be in accordance with majority's expectations and awaress. Given that it has no certain of things, you'll hear the same set of people who
were avodided .

I do also understand those gamblers who are doing exactly the same way as with the problematic ones. They are just saying things we want to experience that. On my end, whether i lose or win.
453  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: stop the unnecessary blame on gambling whenever you get unlucky on: January 31, 2024, 07:14:12 PM
Frustrations, of course. Maybe it is the gambler's way to ease it by blaming or displacing the negative feeling from losing to the game itself. Everyone's aware thaat there's a tendency for us to lose our bet but why do we sometimes, if not often, tends to transfer the hate? Simply because we regret things and that we want to release our emotions and feelings of desperation. Unfortunately, it will just continue like a cycle and you will never learn from it unless you accept losing and to not bet that much next time. For sure, if the amount you lost is tolerable, you won't be in such situation because things will still be fine especialy with your finances. We just have no full control of our luck, therefore being preventive of extensive loss is a must to avoid regret afterwards.
I believe that before one make a decision in life, they should've already weighed the consequences of making the right or wrong choice, then put their fate on luck coupled with their little knowledge concerning what they're about to decide on, so why complain and play the blame game when things go wrong? "Share your thought on how gambling has come through for you if you got any".

I'm sure no gambler doesn't know that they will lose their money. gamblers know the risks and clearly know the chances of winning or losing. but they still decide to bet, so there is nothing to regret about gambling activities.
If the impact of gambling is too bad for a gambler, then it is not the gambling that should be considered bad. This is a game, if you misinterpret it then it is the gambler's fault.
Casinos indeed offer winnings as part of promotions. but the win is still based on luck. so if we are not lucky, then we have to accept defeat.
If anyone forced you to gamble, then he/she is the one to be blamed. Are there any? for sure no other than ourselves took the initiative to do so. Other than acceptance with unwanted outcomes, there's no other thing to do. No one is to blame even yourself; you just have to accept that things do happen in gaambling, both desired and unwanted consequences. If you know to yourself that you cannot handle the stress this activity is giving on your end, then you better quit to save yourself from those negative reactions. Gambling is open to anybody of legal age but a good future won't be for everyone just because they wanted it.
454  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Responsible Gambling Practices Most People Ignore and Sleep on on: January 30, 2024, 05:40:43 PM
We may list as many as possible ways to gambling responsibly however people would continue 'sleeping' or ignoring it simply because self discipline is lacking in particular with their gambling habits. There is a factor which pushes a gambler outside his "circle of discipline" and that is for sure, money. Many gamblers, before they astart to actually bet, are having ideas of getting rich from playing. Given that the reward they are seeking is high, it requires them to risk big as well to create or establish a match on their goal. So maybe, it is one's mindset which should be managed first before anything else.
That is a really good topic
One interesting thing to talk about too is that gambling shouldn’t probably be approached as a professional activity for most people, much better to see it like a way to have fun or a hobbie and spend only a small percentage of your money on it

It takes time, practice and a clear set of goals to avoid falling for some of the traps
That's gambling as its purpose which is as a leisure activity. People are just having high desires out of gambling and that might be a reflection of how tough living and being rich is, at the present. Unlike before wherein people's mindset is to work hard for their dreams, people in gambling industry are in some instances,  hoping to reach that goal through gambling. The outcome? they get too hooked up in this activity to the extent that they are willing to lose everything for that 'chance' to get rich. But as we all know, chances are just possibilities and will never guarantee or assure things.
455  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: You can not win if you do not risk on: January 30, 2024, 03:24:12 PM
I view it as 'You cannot win anything if you won't risk for it', of course referring to gambling. Unlike with other things wherein hardwork is a factor to 'win' or achieve something, gambling requires luck. Although we haave no full control of our fortune, taking the risk indeed will at least give justice for our chances of winning no maatter how small it is. Taking the risk on the other hand is testing whether outcome will be in favor with your assumptions or not. But to make it clear, taking the risk won't guarantee winning which is why some people are afraid of doing so. Those who will try risking will have a chance and those does not, won't have any chances at all.
Good day guys, how is the gambling industry helping you this period?

However I just want to say that in the game world gamblers are always there to bet and the important thing here is when a gambler can not risk he also can not win, true or false?
Many might still believe that a gamblers who's just gambling at the first day might end up winning w huge amount of money that he wasn't expecting but the truth is that as long as you stake on bet you have already risk your money, be it big or small.

Let me tell a story of why you should not risk big.It is a joke we gamblers tell to each other.Once a time was a son playing poker and tells to his dad,dad you used to play poker right?yes answer the father.What would have you done if you had 4 aces dad?I would bet my house said the dad.Good come as the house was won by someone else said the son meaning he lost the house to a royal flush.That is why it is best to only play what you can afford to lose and not risk it.
Quite not clear but the thoughts are there. I agree, going head to head with risk is not always the solution; high risk means high reaward but it could also be a huge loss. The question is, would you still match the risk? Eitherway would be valid because there's a house to he won if you'd win, but whaat if you don't? Taking the risk is necessary as long as that risk is tolerable to the gambler. It is okay to wish for something big but be sure to still be realistic of the odds and chances. Always be mindful of the consequences in every bet. Risk will always be present with gambling but as a gambler, your responsibility is to lessen it and bear with both negative and positive outcome.
456  Other / Off-topic / Re: Before you start gambling, do some research first on: January 30, 2024, 02:36:36 PM


He have gotten used to this way because he started gambling all by himself and he won some money but end up even fuelling his addiction. What is next? Any tip?
Try asking him to seek professional help for him to be assessed properly and to be determined if he is just a problematic gambler or addicted already. Well, regardless of having a source of income, a gambler won't have an assured future in gambling. Luck and fortune determines whether you will be succeeding or not. On my end, I'd be fine not having progress with profit as long as my bank account is not receeding because of it. It would only mean that I do sometimes win, and sometimes lose, which is a normal thing to experience in gambling. Is it a good thing? Not for everyone but on my end yes because I enjoy the activity in general. My goal is to avoid losing that much, and fortunately I am still in profit although not ideal to many especially those who are expecting too much from gambling.
If a person wants to succeed in gambling, then, first of all, he must learn to restrain his emotions and try to manage his money rationally. It is also necessary to choose the type of gambling, in which at least something depends on the actions of the player, and not just on his luck
It is defining what success is for a gambler. If it is huge profit then nothing will contribute into it except for luck to both skill based and luck based gambling games. Yes controlling emotion would help to lessen the tendencies for a huge loss but will not increase or guarantee winning bets. Sometimes, no matter how good your analysis is with sportsbetting, you won't be able to bag the win if you are unlucky for that day. So question, is there a success in gambling? Yes, but subjective. As I mentioned above it could be enjoying the experience and not losing that much or to be in small profit at least.
457  Economy / Speculation / Re: Best time to buy BTC NOW? on: January 29, 2024, 07:32:17 PM
I think waiting for a little bit longer would be better and that's what I plan to do so because for me it is still too early. There is no enough confirmation yet for a bullrun and therefore, a price correction could still take place. The confirmations I am checking are higher rte of volatility, most of the projects are succeeding, and higher market volume for major coins in the market. A huge news will be also contributing to this like with the previous ones. Also, I do expect it to happen months after the halving itself. Nothing guarantees the right or perfect timing to buy but if you know to yourself thaat you can endure whatever direction the market goes right now, then investing at the moment would still be fine, and wait for things to again reach the previous ATH.

My take is for you to know your tolerance as an investor especially with loss. If ever you choose to invest right now, and a huge decline happened in the market, would you be able to be consistent of holding? Loss is temporary as long as you can endure seeing it and will just be permanent if you will choose to cut loss and sell early. Eitherwa is valid and dependent with your financial stability and capacity outside your bankroll. But if you know to yourself that you cannot, then don't rush things.
458  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Are memecoins really important for the crypto market? on: January 29, 2024, 06:33:01 PM
If it is with the mentioned importance, then answer is no. Meme coins are most of the time not having utility and therefore not haaving enough usage to pull investors towards this industry. However, it is a profitable coin as we saw on the previous years such as with SHIB, $PEPE, and more. It just happened to be most of the time manipulated by whales due to high token supply and low market value. Succeeding memetokens are having high market price increase on its listing with different exchangers especially big ones such as Binance. Problem is the fact that not all meme tokens are having the same outcome upon listing so better be careful of going all out. It would be much better to wait for corrections in its price. If I would be asked, I think meme coins are only okay for short term investments.

I have experienced doing some swing trades with meme tokens and fortunately I gained decent profit. However if it is a coin to be advised over major coins, then I doubt of it especially those which are still on price ceilings at this point. A good alternative for me if it is among other altcoins in this industry but not having that much of an impact in general.
459  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: To any Bitcoin holder who lost their seed: How did you lose it? on: January 29, 2024, 05:19:43 PM
Never experienced losing it and wouldn't want to. When I first started in this industry, I know how to value money. I know what risk is present with projects and coins. Given all these, losing your Seed phrase is being negligent. If you value something, you would be caring too much for it and negligence is what you will want to avoid . Even with my physical wallet, I always check it before leaving a plaace whenever I am outside simply because I cannot afford losing any amount so what more with my seedphrase wherein all of my holdings are present? Again, if it is important then put value into it. And if you happened to made mistake before, be sure to learn from it and avoid doing the same thing. There are ways to keep it secured. There are instances such information is being stolen and would you allow it that your own careless actions would cost you that much? Without anyone forcing to get it from you?

This is just a realistic point of view of giving importance to what is important.
Writing them down in a book works wonders, but like a trusty sidekick, it's good to have a backup. Splitting the phrase across multiple locations, offline and hidden like buried loot, is a genius move. Remember, secrecy is your shield against prying eyes and digital vultures.

Screenshots are a big no-no, clouds are even worse – think of them like leaky sieves for your crypto. Hardware wallets? You're preaching to the choir! They're like Fort Knox for your digital gold, way sturdier than any software wallet.
I tend to use mnemonics and first letters are what is written on my notes. Then the whole words would be mispelled to other words and to other pages of my booklet, secured in vault. It should be something that the drunk version of you at least won't know.
460  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Are every activities/competitions with stake known to be gambling? on: January 29, 2024, 04:11:53 PM
Put it simple. You staked something with hopes of getting more in return and accepting the fact that you could lose it, that's gambling. An activity will not only be a gamble if you don't have any expectancy of getting anything if ever your assumption is either correct or not. For xample watching a basketball match and you assumed that team A will win. If you won't lose or gain anything from thaat assumption then that will just be an opinionated guess, nothing more and nothing less. But if there's someone who would oppose on your assumption and would be willing to put something as the consequence of wrong assumption, then that's gambling, in any form of reward of consequence there is after an assumption.
You can defined it your way but my interest is to understand this>>> Are sports games or related competitive activities which stakes are involved between both sides or teams also gambling?
Yes, if there is staked "money" is involved or anything that has "value" to bet on, it will be called gambling.
But the event itself is for competition to determine who is the best on that field, and prize will be given to the winner. The organizers for betting are the one responsible why sports especially those super hyped, too many fan base sports are related to gambling.
Term 'value' indeed or something which is valuable to the counterparty could be gambling. If no assumption differs and no agreement is formed but an exchange of things was done, then that's just a trade and that also means no risk is present on losing something and not getting anything out of a wrong guess.
But what if it has no value?

Perhaps some of your friends agreed that they'll allow you to punch them in the face if he had a wrong assumption on the outcome of a match. Is this gambling? Yes as well 'coz there is a presence of contrast with opinions and that there is a consequence and reward at the end of the game, which is again, could be in any form.
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