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4561  Economy / Services / Re: Send Someone to Heaven/Hell for BTC!!! on: July 11, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
Man, if only I believed in the devil. wasn't an atheist.

Also: are there any Bible/Quran passages against this?

Well, you could change your nomological definition of god.  Just set truth = god, set illusion = the devil, and you're back in the same ballpark!    Cheesy   Besides, Jesus was a jew.  That's pretty much atheist.  Minus the god part. 

And, since I began this service, camels have been FLYING through the eyes of needles.
4562  Economy / Services / Re: Send Someone to Heaven/Hell for BTC!!! on: July 10, 2011, 08:46:03 AM
Pics or GTFO  Grin

Here.  Tronlet sent me this picture.  I weep at his satisfaction, but deep down he's still suffering  Cheesy

4563  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future on: July 10, 2011, 06:34:41 AM
How, in three pages, did no one call this guy out on only getting 385Mhash/sec out of his 6990?

the joint, I think you are well spoken and have some very intelligent thoughts on the subject, but your manner of presentation makes everyone want to hate you. Why so antagonistic? You know how the doomsayers get treated here.

Haha, I meant 6970 Smiley  I must've been daydreaming about what could have been.  My apologies if the manner of presentation offended anyone.  My approach to learning typically involves holding steadfast to a particular belief until I'm proven utterly wrong.  I posted the thoughts I was having at the time.  And, I'm not a doomsayer, though the subject heading may suggest otherwise.  I do believe Bitcoin is a preferable alternative to centralized currency, but not an optimal one.
4564  Economy / Services / Re: Send Someone to Heaven/Hell for BTC!!! on: July 10, 2011, 05:25:09 AM
I can verify that I am chilling with Satan right now, THANKS the joint!!! Smiley

A happy customer Smiley  Is the weather nice?
4565  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Selling 8 BTC @ $15.50 Dwolla Only on: July 10, 2011, 04:43:03 AM
Hi, I'm looking to sell 8 BTC @ $15.50/each and am only interested in receiving payment through Dwolla.  Please reply or PM if interested.  I have not done any transactions with anyone on here, but am trying to build a positive reputation on this forum.  I have several other marketplace posts (selling N64 games, selling an Edelbrock Carburetor) and I would like to build a positive reputation so that I may engage in other transactions later.  I am willing to sacrifice a bit of anonymity to insure you can get a hold of me if you will send payment through Dwolla first.  After I receive the funds, I will IMMEDIATELY (refresh page, refresh page, refresh page) send the bitcoins.
4566  Economy / Services / Re: Send Someone to Heaven/Hell for BTC!!! on: July 10, 2011, 04:25:23 AM
I will use your service when someone who has been to heaven or hell reports back to this thread with a review of the service along with proof they have visited   Grin

Nice try, but once they're in, they're in :-D  

I don't fudge around.
4567  Economy / Services / Send Someone to Heaven/Hell for BTC!!! on: July 10, 2011, 03:56:11 AM
If anyone is interested, I will sincerely pray for any person of your choosing to be sent to Hell when they die.  For just a little BTC, your arch enemy (unbeknownst to them!) will be that much closer to infinite despair.  At a rate of .01BTC/1 minute, your rat-bastard stepfather, ugly cousin, loose ex-girlfriend, etc. will be overcome by a karmic shockwave of doom created by yours truly.

Conversely, I will sincerely pray for any person of your choosing to be sent to Heaven when they die.  Because focusing on love requires deeper and more advanced concentration, the going rate is .05BTC/1 minute.  How about it?  Why go to church when you can give charity right here, right now?  Imagine your beloved grandmother whimsically whistling "On the Sunny Side of the Street" while perched high atop the clouds.  Picture your significant other hanging poolside with Jesus and the gang.  Get them in while the going's good; more exclusive than any Facebook group imaginable!

So what are you waiting for?!  All services provided are insured by universal syntax...Nothing to lose!  Simply send BTC to the following address, post or PM the name and description of the unlucky/lucky lad or lady,  and let karma run its inevitable course. 

1HMYFJ2dDdUGHdFzmKKYNL13zHxrMPbHQe
4568  Economy / Goods / N64 Games for Sale on: July 10, 2011, 03:35:41 AM
Edit:   Price Drop

Hi,

I am interested in selling some of my N64 games.  Most if not all games listed below come with the original boxes -- the games and boxes are in good-to-excellent condition.  I will list all of the games I tangibly have, though I may decide not to sell some on this list (mmmm nostalgia).  Pricing for these games will be at 75% of the CIB (cartridge-in-box) price listing at www.rarityguide.com when paying via Dwolla transfer or BTC.  Must also pay shipping.  If you do not like these prices and would like to negotiate, feel free to PM me, though I prefer to keep these prices standard to make an offer!  If you have something else you feel is valuable that you would like to barter, I am open to ideas.  I particularly enjoy guitar accessories (effects pedals, or, if you have one, a beautiful Gibson, Taylor, or Martin acoustic for the whole lot would be a wonderful trade) and precious metals/gems.

Extreme-G,
Banjo-Kazooie
Star Fox 64 (w/ rumble pack)
Quest 64
F-Zero X
Top Gear Overdrive
Turok 2:  Seeds of Evil
Super Smash Bros
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero
Hexen
All-Star Baseball 99
NFL Quarterback Club 99
Mischief Makers
Extreme-G 2
NBA Jam 99
Diddy Kong Racing
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
F-1 World Grand Prix
Command and Conquer
Madden 99
Star Wars - Shadows of the Empire
Top Gear Rally
Star Wars:  Rogue Squadron
Wave Race 64
WCW vs. NWO:  World Tour
Turok
Super Mario 64

On a side note, I'd really like to know who stole my Ocarina of Time and Mario Kart.  If it's one of you, you can pay me now, or tip me for my woes  -->  1HMYFJ2dDdUGHdFzmKKYNL13zHxrMPbHQe    Smiley
4569  Economy / Goods / Got a classic car? 4 bbl. Edelbrock carb plus extras! on: July 10, 2011, 03:35:03 AM
Hi,

I'm looking to sell a brand new (never used, but box has been opened), Edelbrock 4 bbl. carburetor (600 cfm, square-flange, manual choke) that was originally intended to replace a 2 bbl. carb. in my 1966 mustang.  Since I have sold the Mustang, I now have this unused carb sitting around.  Originally purchased from Mustangs Unlimited, this carb. is "recommended for most Performer applicatiosn and small cubic-inch Torker II applications.  Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance.  Electric choke $1478 can be added if needed."

In addition, I am also looking to sell 2 never-used 66 Mustang quarter panel ornaments, as well as 2 never-used, black, vinyl front-seat covers, and 1 seat back.

These items can either be purchased as a package or separately.  The Edelbrock carb. is great for a classic car upgrade if you're looking for some extra punch.  The package is perfect if you own or are restoring a vintage mustang.

Please post a reply or send a PM if you are interested.

Looking for 90 BTC for everything
4570  Economy / Marketplace / [WTS] Got a classic car? 4 bbl. Edelbrock carb plus extras! on: July 10, 2011, 03:08:56 AM
Hi,

I'm looking to sell a brand new (never used, but box has been opened), Edelbrock 4 bbl. carburetor (600 cfm, square-flange, manual choke) that was originally intended to replace a 2 bbl. carb. in my 1966 mustang.  Since I have sold the Mustang, I now have this unused carb sitting around.  Originally purchased from Mustangs Unlimited, this carb. is "recommended for most Performer applications and small cubic-inch Torker II applications.  Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance.  Electric choke #1478 can be added if needed."  

In addition, I am also looking to sell 2 never-used 66 Mustang quarter panel ornaments, as well as 2 never-used, black, vinyl front-seat covers, and 1 seat back.  

These items can either be purchased as a package or separately.  The Edelbrock carb. is great for a classic car upgrade if you're looking for some extra punch.  The package is perfect if you own or are restoring a vintage mustang.  

Please post a reply or send a PM if you are interested.

Looking for...
Carburetor - $200 in BTC
Quarter panel Ornaments - $35 in BTC
Everything Else - $70 in BTC

Or offer a better price within reason.
4571  Economy / Marketplace / N64 Games on: July 09, 2011, 11:46:05 PM
Hi,

I am interested in selling some of my N64 games.  Most if not all games listed below come with the original boxes -- the games and boxes are in good condition.  I will list all of the games I tangibly have, though I may decide not to sell some on this list (mmmm nostalgia).  Pricing for these games will be at 75% of the CIB (cartridge-in-box) price listing at www.rarityguide.com when paying via Dwolla transfer, or at 100% of the CIB price listing if paying via Bitcoins.  Must also pay shipping.  If you do not like these prices and would like to negotiate, feel free to PM me, though I prefer to keep these prices standard.  I will also accept gold and silver acquired by bitcoin via midasbitcoin (or any other gold/silver with clearly identifiable weight and purity level).  If you have something else you feel is valuable that you would like to barter, I am open to ideas.  I particularly enjoy guitar accessories (effects pedals, or, if you have one, a beautiful Gibson, Taylor, or Martin acoustic for the whole lot would be a wonderful trade Smiley, and precious metals/gems. 

Extreme-G,
Banjo-Kazooie
Star Fox 64 (w/ rumble pack)
Quest 64
F-Zero X
Top Gear Overdrive
Turok 2:  Seeds of Evil
Super Smash Bros
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero
Hexen
All-Star Baseball 99
NFL Quarterback Club 99
Mischief Makers
Extreme-G 2
NBA Jam 99
Diddy Kong Racing
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
F-1 World Grand Prix
Command and Conquer
Madden 99
Star Wars - Shadows of the Empire
Top Gear Rally
Star Wars:  Rogue Squadron
Wave Race 64
WCW vs. NWO:  World Tour
Turok
Super Mario 64

On a side note, I'd really like to know who stole my Ocarina of Time and Mario Kart.  If it's one of you, you can pay me now, or tip me for my woes  -->  1HMYFJ2dDdUGHdFzmKKYNL13zHxrMPbHQe   Smiley

4572  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future on: July 06, 2011, 09:57:51 PM
Observably, this law is infinitely more constant than an agreed value placed upon a currency.

No, that is an affine transformation. We simple find it falsifiable with the inverse, switch the constance(s) before any value is given. How does anybody know the difference?

Consistent, predictable, perception of phenomena is why any scientific law exists.

As predictable as those that try to believe in that law alone, which amounts to monotheism, scientifically prefixed mono-.

Is theism some form of currency? "In god we trust."

Quote
If you do not have faith in something, you doubt it

Wasn't it Kant that stood for "the unfalsifiable"; the non-science.

I'm not sure.  I used to read that junk but I find it more valuable to think for myself.  Kant ain't got shit on me :-D  Though I like some of his ethical stuff.

To elaborate, consider this statement.

"What one proves, the other cannot know.  What one knows, he cannot prove." ~ Me.    Now, I (subject) know the I as a subject exist through direct experience as a subject.  I have direct knowledge of I.  Can I prove I exist to you?  Well, I (subject) can point to I (object) and prove I exist.  But you cannot know this since you cannot know the subject.  You (subject) can point to me (object) and prove I exist, but you don't know I exist for the same reason -- you don't know the subjective me.  Proving requires external evidence.  Knowing requires direct experience.  I know it's hot out when I feel hot.  This requires no evidence.  Proving I am hot (lets say my body temp. is 102 degrees F)  does not mean that you know I am hot.  Some people get chills when they are at 102 degrees.  I need no evidence to know I am hot, but I need evidence to prove I am hot.  Yet, no evidence in the world could ever make you know I am hot.
4573  Other / Politics & Society / Re: I am willing to argue public education has ruined this country... on: July 06, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
In my opinion, the problems stemming from public education occur because of the following two (although, there are others) reasons.

1.)  Curriculum is influenced by media
2.)  It is compulsory

Hence, creativity in thinking is lacking.

Help me out here.  Your argument is essentially that 'creativity' which IMHO is pretty hard define is lacking in...what? Education?  People?  How did we measure this?  Is media influence intrinsically at odds with this hard to define idea. Not to mention  what does this have to do with *public* education?  Any evidence that private education is significantly less influenced?  Private schools jumped on the computing bandwagon earlier than any of the public schools.  

Quote
Ultimately, the importance and validity of any discipline taught in school is rooted in philosophy and an understanding of logical syntax.  How popular are philosophers in the media? Not very.

Importance defined how?  Sociological importance?  Personal satisfaction?  How are these measured?

Quote
How important is the sound application of logic in other fields?  Even scientists, who are supposed to strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method and the laws of probability, carelessly make faulty assumptions in the classroom (or even worse, in scientific journals) on a daily basis

This definitely happens but as to what degree and what this has to do with public education is unclear.  Private schools are certainly responsible for some of the stupidest ideas in history. As an aside you can't 'strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method' as the scientific method is not a formally defined entity (except in some very abstract sense).


By creativity, I mean the ability to critically challenge, question, and then and only then accept/reject something taught by authority figures as true or false -- or, thinking outside the 'box.'

So again, I'm trying to piece together your thesis here.  So you claim that media influences public education (without specifying to what degree or how this fact is established or how the significant effect is isolated to education with public funding).  You then seem to claim that this has an significant effect on the ability to "critically challenge and question things offered by authority figures".

...and while I'm willing to entertain that at least half of one of your premises "the ability to critically challenge and question things" is detrimental to education.  None of your premises seem to force your conclusion here.  Not even touching on the idea of validating the premises.  I'd also say that there seem to be some practical problems with the idea that "then and only then accept/reject something taught by authority figures as true or false".  To me anyway I'd rather give someone the understanding of the tools used to validate hypotheses.  While logic is part of that, it's not exactly a terribly big part.   For example I'd challenge you to construct purely from sets and first-order logic one of my favorite tools "Analysis of Variance" (ANOVA).

Quote
By importance, I mean owing existence to.  So, quantitative importance.

What do you mean by that?  Are you implying that logic created say math?

Quote
And by scientific 'method,' it is formally defined as a 'method' and therefore emphasis is placed on process not product.

Not really.   It's usage is more an umbrella term for various processes employed in various sciences.  Heck unless you are using the terms "process" or "product" in some needlessly specialized sense.   You could even argue that the emphasis is on a product not process.


When I wrote this, I didn't want to take the time to formulate a deductive or tautological argument.  I didn't want to take the time to explain my premises in detail.  A good philosophical argument can take pages to write because every word can be scrutinized and questioned.  But, for a little clarification on my thoughts...

Also in addition to providing a series of deductive elements you also will probably need to provide some evidence to support your premises.

Quote
The 'degree' to which the media influences education is, well, a 'high' degree.  Any public school must maintain a positive image in the eyes of the community.  Poor performance and unorthodox teaching styles catch the eyes of parents and school personnel, the community, and the media.

Firstly: Media attention and media influence are not synonymous.  Secondly your assumption that any school must maintain a positive image in the eyes of the community.  Is a) not synonymous with "media influence" (although it might be related but that further weakens the argument) and seems - on the face of it anyway - either untrue  (Since it would mean there are no schools that persist with a negative image) or irrelevant (where 'persist' refers to an arbitrary amount of time).

Still none of these premises actually force the negative conclusion that you appear to be aiming for.

Quote
And, the link between education and politics is quite clear.  In the U.S., history books are extremely biased and ethnocentric,
Relevance to removing critical thought from schools?  A biased and ethnocentric history book can easily be used as a talking point for teaching critical thought.  My history teachers worked that angle as well as referring to history books used in other countries.

Quote
and politics is regarded as the highest of all disciplines, ala Aristotle.

Support?

Quote
Science and Math are falling behind when compared with other countries,
Please support.

Quote
and proper English is hardly ever spoken even by the teachers, let alone by the students.
Define and support.  (Is "proper English" some prescriptivist construction or do you mean "generally mutually understood English"?)

Quote
On the other hand, compulsory schooling adds to the problem by setting the status quo on knowledge.  I can argue against evolution any day of the week depending on the perspective one takes, but radical perspectives are typically cast aside in society, even if these perspectives are valid, plausible, or even sound.

Also disregards the radically wrong.  Please support how this makes what at least appears to be your point that this has a significant negative effect.

Quote
Math is a branch of philosophy.

In what sense? Developmentally? Uh not really.  Please support.

Quote
When you say "...umbrella term for various processes employed..."  that means methods.  Regardless, the 'processes' are inductive (except for the pseudo-deductive process of forming experiments), and because of this, you'll never have an absolute, finished product/result.  
Well...

a) no, you can actually have what would qualify as a finished product.  You can have a product which is suitable for a particular use.  i.e. meets the standard error requirements for your use.  Furthermore it's reasonable to believe that there are physical limits to the amount various kinds of observational error can be reduces.  Ergo you could end up with a product for which no better product can ever be obtained.

b) Your words were 'emphasis on process' even if you don't have something that qualifies as a 'finished product' you can still say you are focused on the product.



Haha you see the depth this kind of argument requires?  Not that you're wrong to ask for greater clarity or support, but I'm not writing a research paper Smiley

Because I don't wish to source-scan at this time, I'll address the latter issues.

I agree.  The 'radically wrong' are hard to separate from the 'radical-but-correct,' but this would not necessarily be the case were it not for a status quo on 'correct' knowledge (hence, the grading system.  There IS a correct answer -- or, in terms of essays, more correct answers than others -- in the classroom).  A direct consequence of this is that a person with a higher academic degree automatically receives greater credibility than another person who does not have such a degree, although this 2nd person may have infinitely greater knowledge than the academic.  As a result, (generally) only academics receive grants for publication and research, and most of the time, their ideas are then subjected to the peer-review process.  Why is the peer-review process a problem?  Well, obviously it has it's merits, but one major pitfall is that the peer-review process allows only for tentative advances in knowledge.  Nobody's really allowed to do anything 'radical' for risk of humiliation from academic peers.  For example, how many scientists have been canned simply because they are Christian?  Quite a few.  I was even denied the opportunity to conduct an original experiment in my undergraduate class.  Why?  Because it had never been done before!!  The APA denied my experiment proposal because there had been no prior research conducted on the subject.  Moreover, about 75% of all research is product research.  The vast amount of funding available goes toward making sure the lights in the heels of your sneakers function properly rather than tackling society's biggest problems.  Then, you add in a 'publish-or-perish' approach which places pressure on college professors.  The professor's focus is redirected away from teaching and onto their research (after all, he can still teach if he sucks as a teacher, as long as he's bringing in that grant money).  I suppose this is why one of my college professors hasn't been fired yet, despite having over a half-dozen pending lawsuits against her spanning several years for denying students their disability accommodations in the classroom.  Academia is a noble institution indeed...

Math is a branch of philosophy in the sense that philosophy is more broad and math is more specific.  Math deals purely with abstract representations of objects.  In contrast, science (another branch of philosophy) deals purely with that which is observed.  Philosophy deals with both.  To have an understanding of math or science, one must have an understanding of philosophy. Without philosophy, you can't know why your statistical analysis correlates to whatever it is you observed.

The "scientific method" -- or process, whatever -- is a method.  There is nothing in the scientific method about product.  A conclusion is not a method.  Conclusions are reached from pseudo-deductive experiments.  The process, however, is inductive, and that is why you cannot have a finished product (even if you are approximating closer and closer to truth, you can never know that you are for sure since you must already have some idea of what the truth looks like before you can say you're approximating closer to it).  You can never have a finished product to the process because the process, in it's nature, cannot not be a process. It is ever-continuing.
4574  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future on: July 06, 2011, 09:01:31 PM
Law of Thermodynamics

Like any medium of exchange, there are agreements. You agreed the scientific law exists. Us scientists can bean-count those that recite scientific laws, so... faithfully.

Of course, stability is an issue with periodic values, so is the sustainable economy.

See Also: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25408.msg316059#msg316059

I agree that we have an abstract understanding of some universal syntax (law) that helps create our interpretation of the law of thermodynamics.  Observably, this law is infinitely more constant than an agreed value placed upon a currency.  The process of exchange is seemingly as consistent as the law, but far more consistent than the value individuals place upon exchanged objects.

A side note about faith...
I had an interesting thought.

If you do not have faith in something, you doubt it (e.g. I do NOT have faith in the Cubs.  I doubt they will win.   I do not have faith in polytheistic gods, I doubt they exist).
So, if one has faith in something, they do not doubt it.  They are certain.  (e.g. I have faith/no doubt that in God)
Is faith more directly related to knowing than a belief based upon evidence?
4575  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future on: July 06, 2011, 08:54:35 PM
One of the odd things about occidental folks generally is they tend to spend a bunch of time contemplating the future and thus not living in the present. One description of oriental (Chinese I think) thought is how a river looks when only looking down stream or how the voyage of a ship appears when merely looking at the wake from the stern.

Fact is BTCs are a currency now or, at least fit the definition of "currency" better than FRN (so called "USD").

I have lured a friend who sells batteries/electronics online to get into BTCs and he will soon be offering his wares in exchange for BTC.

The future is already here.

How did you know the future is here unless you contemplated the relationship of the future to the present?  Using a similar river analogy, you don't always have to 'be' the river, looking at the bank of the river as you flow past it.  You can take the perspective of the river bank which simultaneously holds the potential for past, present, and future river configurations.  When we learn past present and future are connected, 'living in the present' isn't as concrete of an idea as you may think.
4576  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future on: July 06, 2011, 08:49:45 PM
It seems to me like the very premise of the OP is that only direct bartering can work as an economic system. Humans have been away from direct bartering for a long time, and our current economic system still manages to work well enough.

A couple hundred years is hardly enough time to suggest that the currency works indefinitely.  Civilizations come and go every few hundred years.  And our current economic system is 'working' because the Federal Reserve still has a printing press with a broken off switch.
4577  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: TradeHill - 4th of July special .3% commission until July 10th on: July 06, 2011, 08:30:47 PM
Jared,

Hi, I just sent you an email regarding a Dwolla deposit I initiated on Saturday that still has not cleared.  When I check my account history, the status for this deposit says "in process."  The time and date of the deposit are listed as "none."  I tried requesting another deposit for the same amount ($150) thinking that perhaps the deposit request was lost amidst the holiday madness, but this was immediately cancelled -- I suspect because I do not have an additional $150 in my account.  I know Sunday was a weekend and Monday was the 4th, but the deposit still had all of yesterday (Tuesday) and today to clear.  Am I wrong to assume the deposit process will always take less than 24 hours?  Any help would be appreciated.  I want to take advantage of these crazy market swings and reduced transaction fees!  Thanks!

Edit:  I received a prompt email in response to this problem, and I believe it was my error.  Thank you!  Fast service.
4578  Other / Politics & Society / Re: I am willing to argue public education has ruined this country... on: July 06, 2011, 11:26:21 AM
In my opinion, the problems stemming from public education occur because of the following two (although, there are others) reasons.

1.)  Curriculum is influenced by media
2.)  It is compulsory

Hence, creativity in thinking is lacking.

Help me out here.  Your argument is essentially that 'creativity' which IMHO is pretty hard define is lacking in...what? Education?  People?  How did we measure this?  Is media influence intrinsically at odds with this hard to define idea. Not to mention  what does this have to do with *public* education?  Any evidence that private education is significantly less influenced?  Private schools jumped on the computing bandwagon earlier than any of the public schools.  

Quote
Ultimately, the importance and validity of any discipline taught in school is rooted in philosophy and an understanding of logical syntax.  How popular are philosophers in the media? Not very.

Importance defined how?  Sociological importance?  Personal satisfaction?  How are these measured?

Quote
How important is the sound application of logic in other fields?  Even scientists, who are supposed to strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method and the laws of probability, carelessly make faulty assumptions in the classroom (or even worse, in scientific journals) on a daily basis

This definitely happens but as to what degree and what this has to do with public education is unclear.  Private schools are certainly responsible for some of the stupidest ideas in history. As an aside you can't 'strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method' as the scientific method is not a formally defined entity (except in some very abstract sense).


By creativity, I mean the ability to critically challenge, question, and then and only then accept/reject something taught by authority figures as true or false -- or, thinking outside the 'box.'

So again, I'm trying to piece together your thesis here.  So you claim that media influences public education (without specifying to what degree or how this fact is established or how the significant effect is isolated to education with public funding).  You then seem to claim that this has an significant effect on the ability to "critically challenge and question things offered by authority figures".

...and while I'm willing to entertain that at least half of one of your premises "the ability to critically challenge and question things" is detrimental to education.  None of your premises seem to force your conclusion here.  Not even touching on the idea of validating the premises.  I'd also say that there seem to be some practical problems with the idea that "then and only then accept/reject something taught by authority figures as true or false".  To me anyway I'd rather give someone the understanding of the tools used to validate hypotheses.  While logic is part of that, it's not exactly a terribly big part.   For example I'd challenge you to construct purely from sets and first-order logic one of my favorite tools "Analysis of Variance" (ANOVA).

Quote
By importance, I mean owing existence to.  So, quantitative importance.

What do you mean by that?  Are you implying that logic created say math?

Quote
And by scientific 'method,' it is formally defined as a 'method' and therefore emphasis is placed on process not product.

Not really.   It's usage is more an umbrella term for various processes employed in various sciences.  Heck unless you are using the terms "process" or "product" in some needlessly specialized sense.   You could even argue that the emphasis is on a product not process.


When I wrote this, I didn't want to take the time to formulate a deductive or tautological argument.  I didn't want to take the time to explain my premises in detail.  A good philosophical argument can take pages to write because every word can be scrutinized and questioned.  But, for a little clarification on my thoughts...

The 'degree' to which the media influences education is, well, a 'high' degree.  Any public school must maintain a positive image in the eyes of the community.  Poor performance and unorthodox teaching styles catch the eyes of parents and school personnel, the community, and the media.  And, the link between education and politics is quite clear.  In the U.S., history books are extremely biased and ethnocentric, and politics is regarded as the highest of all disciplines, ala Aristotle.  Science and Math are falling behind when compared with other countries, and proper English is hardly ever spoken even by the teachers, let alone by the students.  I'd bet money that the media (t.v. and mainstream music media especially) is responsible at least in part for that.  On the other hand, compulsory schooling adds to the problem by setting the status quo on knowledge.  I can argue against evolution any day of the week depending on the perspective one takes, but radical perspectives are typically cast aside in society, even if these perspectives are valid, plausible, or even sound.  After all, the 'radical' in 'radical perspectives' implies that they aren't commonly shared with society at large -- especially not respected authority figures like school teachers. 

Math is a branch of philosophy.   Philosophy is more broad and incorporates several disciplines.  Logic's syntax distributes to any discipline so that it can be understood.  In that way, logic is mathematical because, as it distributes to various systems, these systems are linked by ratio.  So, no, logic didn't 'create' math, but being mathematical is a characteristic of logic.  Math -- like any other language -- is the abstract representation of ratio (root word of 'rationale'), and, indeed, it is only through ratio that 'truth' can be intellectualized. 

When you say "...umbrella term for various processes employed..."  that means methods.  Regardless, the 'processes' are inductive (except for the pseudo-deductive process of forming experiments), and because of this, you'll never have an absolute, finished product/result. 

 
4579  Other / Politics & Society / Re: I am willing to argue public education has ruined this country... on: July 05, 2011, 05:15:04 PM
In my opinion, the problems stemming from public education occur because of the following two (although, there are others) reasons.

1.)  Curriculum is influenced by media
2.)  It is compulsory

Hence, creativity in thinking is lacking.

Help me out here.  Your argument is essentially that 'creativity' which IMHO is pretty hard define is lacking in...what? Education?  People?  How did we measure this?  Is media influence intrinsically at odds with this hard to define idea. Not to mention  what does this have to do with *public* education?  Any evidence that private education is significantly less influenced?  Private schools jumped on the computing bandwagon earlier than any of the public schools.  

Quote
Ultimately, the importance and validity of any discipline taught in school is rooted in philosophy and an understanding of logical syntax.  How popular are philosophers in the media? Not very.

Importance defined how?  Sociological importance?  Personal satisfaction?  How are these measured?

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How important is the sound application of logic in other fields?  Even scientists, who are supposed to strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method and the laws of probability, carelessly make faulty assumptions in the classroom (or even worse, in scientific journals) on a daily basis

This definitely happens but as to what degree and what this has to do with public education is unclear.  Private schools are certainly responsible for some of the stupidest ideas in history. As an aside you can't 'strictly adhere to the limits of the scientific method' as the scientific method is not a formally defined entity (except in some very abstract sense).


By creativity, I mean the ability to critically challenge, question, and then and only then accept/reject something taught by authority figures as true or false -- or, thinking outside the 'box.'

By importance, I mean owing existence to.  So, quantitative importance.

And by scientific 'method,' it is formally defined as a 'method' and therefore emphasis is placed on process not product.
4580  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: CampBX Launch - Free Trades for All Bxlievers! on: July 05, 2011, 04:45:47 PM
I'm having problems logging in to CampBx with the user/pass I created a few days ago.  It keeps telling me my user/pass doesn't work.  When I try to reset my password using a direct copy/paste of my account name found in my account confirmation email from CampBx, it says "Username Error."   Really?  Already?

Edit:  I attempted to re-create my original account using the same user/pass.  I succeeded.  I'm glad it worked, but it is a little weird looking at the identical confirmation emails from CampBx in my inbox.
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