I quote myself on this one.  Democracy is the most average system of government. 

...What?

You want the price to be like $100/BTC with 10,000 people?  We only have like 50,000 users or something.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting.  Is a dollar at little toy at...$1?  I assume you're suggesting that 21,000,000 coins spread among a population of ~7 billion would be pointless if they are worth $1 each.  

The point is that if 7 billion people are using BTC there won't be a fiat/BTC conversion rate.  If BTC is used by so many people, deflation would have long ago kicked in.  

Or, another way to look at it would be that if BTC was worth a dollar (but still accepted by everyone), the same dollar today would be worth thousands then.

But, I must say you allude to a very interesting point.  That point can be phrased as a question:  How do we build a large economy if people can't buy houses?  The housing example is a good one because there simply cannot be enough coins in existence to support everyone buying their houses, cars, etc. in BTC if it's worth $1.  This isn't even close to being feasible at it's current exchange rate or even $30.  And yet, even on this forum we see things like people selling businesses and gemstones that cost like 20 grand.  Nobody should have that many BTC unless they paid for them with cash.  Too few people with too many BTC.

So, we need to learn from the implications of this.

1.)   Don't start out worrying about whether or you can buy a huge house or a car with BTC.  It needs to start small.  If the current supply-to-value ratio of BTC wouldn't support everyone in the whole world buying the same product as you intend to purchase, then you shouldn't buy it anyway.

2.)  This means that you need interest.  Interest comes from desire.  Peoples' desires include wanting to be safe and connected, so focus on that.  Security and ease of connectivity need to be of primary focus.  Security basically comes down to having your BTC insured so you don't have to worry about your account getting hacked.  

3.)  Ease of connectivity means we need coders who will actually make the Bitcoin client easy to use -- and I said easy as in easy for a kindergartener to understand and use.  Something like "Download?"  And after the download, you now have the client, a miner (preconfigured), an account at a pool, and an account at an exchange.  And maybe like a hotline number to call.  How about a Bitcoin business where it is the job of the employees to simply explain the whole goddamn thing to people?

4.)  If and when interest grows such that deflation truly sets in, you will finally be ready to think about purchasing houses and cars.  By that time, you will also be able to make all the repairs on your house and buy all the tools to do them with BTC.

There is a serious flaw with any currency (or in any economy) in which a very small number of people hold a great % the currency.  This is one reason I hate SC and it's dipshit spokesman.  But right now I suspect a very number of people hold at least 50% of BTC.  There's not nearly enough volume on the exchanges to explain the distribution of all 7 million+ BTC.

Actually, I find the lower the price goes the easier it is to make money (though not mine).

When 40 cent changes = 10% market swings, there is a LOT of money to be made at these prices.

Scamming is one thing.  Scamming and then posting a thread after a scam saying you're in the hospital is another.  Ban this dude.

Alternative currencies are the new Bitcoinduit.

Better would be to create a new website like YouTube but all ads are paid for with Bitcoin.  It's popularity will grow because...well...people want to be popular.  Main problem would be affording necessary bandwidth.

People like to be the center of the attention and they like knowing that people are interested in them.

Capitalize on peoples' desires.  Then get rich.

It works.

I'm already speechless.

Kind of...

It depends on the perspective.  In the case of Bitcoin, you know exactly how may Bitcoins you sent/received and is to that extent easy to keep track of.

The problem comes from Bitcoin currently being tied to fiat in terms of it's value.  As a result, it's much more difficult to keep track of.  We know only 21 million coins will ever be created, but a Bitcoin spent now may be worth many more/fewer Bitcoins later on.  Even though more coins are being continually generated, a mass acceptance of Bitcoin will make each individual Bitcoin more rare in terms of ownership.  The changing exchange rates make keeping track of bookkeeping more difficult because the value of BTC spent is relational.  10 BTC that I sell back in the middle June is quite different than the 10 BTC sent today.

Because of this, if I said, "I spent 100 BTC last year, but I spent 500 this year," it's hard to know exactly what this means in terms of value.

My shoe size is 200.

And it's not my fault that people assume miners/traders/speculators are mutually exclusive in a value context.

When you isolate a specific context, you may find "oh look, miners don't seem to do much for the value."

Good job.  Now, if the context you considered is 'x,' all you need to do is consider (infinite - x) other contexts or "assumptions."

Edit:  My point:  There are infinite variables/factors that affect the miner/price relationship.  You are aware of a couple of these.  You are largely unaware of most.  You have absolutely no idea about the relationship between miners and price.  All I know is that there is one, and it's extremely intricate.

You're fantastic at analyzing things in isolation.

That method doesn't apply well here.

People are not simply categorized as Miners OR Speculators.

Sometimes they are one, sometimes they are the other, sometimes they are both, sometimes they are neither.

Sometimes they are all of these things simultaneously.  Sometimes they are none.  Sometimes they are both all and none at the same time, and sometimes they are neither all nor none.

Regardless, systems are not the systems they are without their inclusive parts.  In a system that encompasses miners, speculators, and price, all are entwined, and all are interdependent.

Me typing this post influences price.

You breathing influences price.

A man coughing on a goat hair in China influences price.

This is because the Bitcoin system is involved in larger systems.

Isolation will get you nowhere.

Yes, but that is assuming the value will increase if you remove the high freq. trades.

This may happen to a small degree, but to a large degree I don't think it will.  The economy is too small to support high prices. 

There's causation from miners --> price

Exchanges make money on commissions.

If you limit the high freq. trades, you'll probably get a massive transaction fee imposed.

This isn't an argument for good and bad, however...

Democracy -->  filtered through bell curve --> average decisions

Just received my mini frisbee and not one, but 2 Bitcoin condoms!

Fantastic!

Nhodges is a true bro.

P4man, the gentleman at the top of this 2nd page did a brilliant job of simply putting it.  It's a symbiotic loop.

Whether you care or not, right now is the present moment, and the present moment in BTC-land contains BTC price and miners.  The present would not be the present that it is were it not for absolutely every single thing that is right now.

Miners are completely entwined with price.

Nothing is absolutely independent of anything else (that's why it's a relationship; even relationships of absolute independence are included within the medium of interdependence).

End of story.

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner!  What do we have for him today, Johnny?

Miners trade.  There is no point to mine if you don't trade them, whether for cash or for goods/services.  The more miners there are, the more traders there are.  While it is not true that all traders are miners, it is much safer to think that all miners are traders.

The more traders there are, the more liquidity there is.

Liquidity influences the economy (lot's of buying and selling aids merchants) and thus price.

There are so many angles from which this can be approached, and this doesn't even include arguments for unknown effects of miners.

If people know exactly what influences what, then how come nobody knows (not predicts) where the market is going?

First of all, besides changing the context entirely, what you said about the sun and speed of earth rotation does nothing to disprove what I said.  If anything, you're pointing out another valid example where removal of a cause axiomatically removes its effect. 

Second, I never argued that price doesn't influence the number of miners.  I'm arguing for reciprocal influence.

It's not either/or, it's both.

I'm optimistic.  I sell immediately to have more to invest in trading, and trading is where I make a much larger % of my profit.