Congratulations! You're an idiot! |
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in related news, the bittalk forum dev fund increased by 45000 today
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You are a Rothschild?
Yes Atlas doesn't know that we are all freemasons, does he? EDIT: That was intended for PM.. oops |
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Invite Tom E. Woods Jr. and I will come.
Go to hell Atlas, no one cares if you come, and even if you did they'd make you take coats. |
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I'd rather have BitScalper and CoinTumbler than coercive regulation of Bitcoin businesses. Bitcoin is information, and policing information is the fastest way to kill Bitcoin.   Nice spin there buddy. Let's straighten it back out. All exchanges are already registered, except one, who calls Bitcoins monopoly money and says that he has the stolen coins. MtGox, CryptoXChange, Intersango, they've all gone through the steps necessary and required of them by their legal operating countries in order to be legal and provide a legal service. CoinExchanger ignores these responsibilities under the guise of providing anonymity (except everything they claim is always a lie or completely unprovable). I agree with Kluge. Matthew, I don't need you protecting me from "scummy fucks". If you're going to accuse people of wrongdoing, don't use ad hominem - It makes your indignation look like a show. Point taken, but comment in the thread linked above. It's become a quite larger topic. |
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Also, I hate Socrates.
If anybody is similar to me, it's Stirner, Ragnar Redbeard and Nietzsche.
Why would you hate Socrates? Isn't he just something you perceive? Also, why do you suck at English and modesty so bad? You say that they are similar to you when they've all lived before you. You could at the very most claim that you are similar to them (since you are the subject of conversation), but even that is a hard pill to swallow when they did something with their lives. |
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One cannot leave their own head, their own perception, if you will.
It's called learning new perceptions and it's done through experience. Your existentialist hot air is wasted here. Oh and I do enjoy what I percieve, Portnoy, make no mistake.
If you watch child rape porn, do you enjoy the perception of it? It's all a matter of preference in the end. I never denied others had preferences and desires. All I do acknowledge is that it's all subjective in accordance to individual perception; thus to me, reality seems vacant and open to many possibilities. It will not stand under your, one culture's or a god's desires. It stands under only the powers that be and act.
You keep parroting Socrates and pretending to be enlightened, but you never apply what you speak to your own life. Do you know what Socrates would call you? A fool. |
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I have a hunch that coinexchanger were in fact the people behind this whole hacking business.
Really, based on what? His claim that they received stolen coins, backed by absolutely zero evidence? If it was true that he had stolen coins, they'd be selling for cheaper than MtGox. They're not! Asking price at coinexchanger ridiculously high (not even counting the withdrawal fee). Conclusion: coinexchanger = troll. I mentioned this in another thread, but basically, the fees don't matter to someone looking for an anonymous, easy and shady place to unload for quick and easy cash. To be honest, CoinExchanger is starting to look like the only place the hacker could go if he wanted to avoid the wrath of the community (since CoinExchanger is full on douchebag). |
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lol obviously he's not been sent any of the Linode recently stolen funds, no one smart enough to pull that one off is going to be dumb enough to trust any, let alone large chunks, to a blubber mouth with rates that are daylight robbery in any case, how can anyone even consider it plausible, as Goat says he's just trolling of the back of the affair (& any of you who believe it could be so) for his own lulz/lame site spamming - it's just his little wet dream that it were so
He won't prove it, and asking for proof seems to be falling on deaf ears, but the only two reasons I would give credence to his claims are: 1) The timing of his announcement (although a ridiculous thing to want to announce) 2) The fact that he is a shady business person and MtGox and other exchanges actually care enough to try to investigate. |
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As a nihilist, I find myself laughing at the amateur moral questions this thread discusses.
That's understandable. I guess now you understand why we laugh at you so much for your non-philosophy related topic threads. Tell me, what justification is there for a universal moral good? Can tyranny of such a scale ever be fully enforceable? With all due respect, I'm asking the adults a question of social responsibility. I don't really think I'll have much to gain from an 18 year old parroting propaganda he learned in high school unless I was asking something particular about the philosophical beliefs of certain people in the world. What I am looking for more is an experienced opinion on anonymity in the future of Bitcoin I think. |
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As a nihilist, I find myself laughing at the amateur moral questions this thread discusses.
That's understandable. I guess now you understand why we laugh at you so much for your non-philosophy related topic threads. |
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I guess what I'm trying to say is, I grew up in a world with a very clearly defined idea of morals and theft, and now I'm learning that by some standards everyone is a criminal. That leads me to believe that maybe instead of individuals being wrong, the rules might be inappropriate and represent improper standards. I think the biggest cause of this is that Bitcoin is something completely new and kind of goes beyond traditional trains of thought. If nobody had gotten hurt by the scams (including peripheral effects to the entire Bitcoin economy and all that have vested interests in it), would you have gone to the lengths that you did, conducting your own personal investigation to try to get to the truth of the matter?
I think I react to the ones that I smell are preying on people and nothing more. I have invited known scammers to work with me to use their honest resources (although I keep them out of any position of power or responsibility) so I don't think it's the illegality that gets to me, it's the intentions of people. I honestly felt Bitscalper's intentions were honest in the beginning, and it progressed into a battle against common sense. CoinExchanger was a no-brainer common sensical scam waiting to happen, although he is hiding behind the argument of "anonymity doesn't mean scammer".  From an outside perspective, I think you did it because you don't want to see people get hurt. The question of whether or not allowing virutal-unknowns the potential to scam hundreds of people is worth the possibility that somehow, someday, our small little digital corner will evolve into some variation of the global, decentralized market that we all wish to see is a tough one. The probabilities of this happening are incalculable, but you knew you had an opportunity to directly help people right here, right now.
I admit I need work on my follow-through, but sometimes it seems like the world is standing still when they should be moving. In this thread, I'm just trying to see if I am right for moving or if everyone else is frozen because there is a veloceraptor right behind me. I think your concern is noble, and the efforts you undertook are also noble. But, only you know what your intentions are. Sometimes, and quite often, doing the right thing can result in some pretty epic backlash. Keep your head on straight and don't be led astray by people who are likely more confused about their own values than you are.
Well as the other threads are starting to wreak of person vendettas on my part, I don't think I should waste any time defending my intentions-- instead I'd rather focus on the question-- is it alright for someone to operate a business anonymously? Should we be supporting someone who claims to have stolen coins and basically flips off the rest of the community who has a problem with it? Does it even matter what they do or how they do it so long as they didn't steal it themselves? I feel like this is a libertarian argument and maybe I've been reading too much about Ron Paul lately. |
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No one here who knows me, my attitude, my beliefs and my freshness to economics, philosophy and politics could ever assume that the people I work with are in constant agreement with me. What they are in agreement with is the fact that I don't mind criticizing myself and correcting course.
I have recently called out CoinExchanger on the forums for being the outright scammer that I truly believe they are. Their constant miss-representation, endless self-promotion, absurd anti-Bitcoin sentiment and obsession with situations that allow for no prosecution of their actions whatsoever leave no room for anything but a defensive attitude towards them.
This is me growing up though, and let me tell you, it's incredibly hard.
I was raised a Christian in Kentucky, parents homeschooled me, and I have been fighting it ever since. My beliefs and philosophy can all be traced back to one basic belief-- life is not about a change itself, but about being good at changing all the time. Picking programming as first profession at 13 made that painfully clear to me.
The lesson I am learning here is that right or wrong, our world governments do in fact have too much power. In breaking it down to its major points, what CoinExchanger is offering is just an anonymous exchange medium for people who don't want to have to follow the rules.
I'm not a moralfag, I'm an opportunist. If my own friends were running such an operation, I'd be down their throats pushing them for transparency and honesty, but I wouldn't be against the actual anonymity. This is the hard part to swallow-- the more I search my heart, the more I am seeing that my hostility for CoinExchanger is mostly related to their presentation and my own theories on who they are and what they're doing.
I understand that the future of a society is gloomy when people cannot recognize this weakness in themselves, and I wanted to publicly humiliate myself by admitting that I fell for this human weakness yesterday in the heat of what appears to be arguable business-suicide for CoinExchanger.
Here are the facts regarding CoinExchanger and what I have been able to conclude to present:
His claims that he has 12k coins cannot be proved as he has not provided any proof of this.
His claims that he has even 1 customer cannot be proved as no one is willing to stand up and admit it.
None of this seems to matter though, as the more pressing question is--- do we really want anonymity in our community?
Is it okay that CoinExchanger is offering an exchange that might in fact be breaking a law someplace? If so, why do MtGox need to follow AML procedures? Is it just because they deal in wire transfers?
Is a service like Bitscalper (who although I haven't proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have reason to believe they are the same person) an acceptable service for the bitcoin community?
Some of the more experienced members here may be reading this thread and cackling, "Man, what a moron. He's totally lost it.". What you're reading are the words of someone who is born to fight for causes, but isn't sure which cause is really worth fighting for.
I admit that it would give me great pleasure to stomp all over MyBitcoin, BitScalper, CoinExchanger, etc for personal reasons, but in the long run, should all situations be handled by customers simply not using anonymous services and putting them out of business?
Doesn't common sense say that no matter what happens, if something is anonymous, it shouldn't be trusted because the risk is too high?
Are there any parameters that can be created that would change this?
As a community, should we bite the bullet and work towards this anonymity being possible with safety or keep holding on to our previous beliefs?
I am ready to humble myself and work towards an entirely new mindset, one where "exchanges" like CoinExchanger can actually exist without me saying a word otherwise, but there are just too many unanswered questions.
Should his claim that he has 12,000BTC of the stolen coins not be investigated? Doesn't just brushing it off as "whatever, it's anonymous, give it up" basically saying it's okay to steal from each other because "Bitcoin"? Can we ever get rid of the social side of Bitcoin to reach a completely digital nature of rewards and repercussions? What good is reputation if everyone is anonymous? Is the very ideal behind repercussions wrong and only legitimate in a moral setting?
I'm lost guys. Help me out here, because I feel like I'm sitting on the kill switch for CoinExchanger and something about it just feels like continuing the bad, old system, and counter productive to the new system.
P.S. Get over yourselves. I am not speaking as any representative of any magazine or anything else. I'm speaking as Matthew, one of the most energetic Bitcoiners in the world.
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Nothing but the payment functions need to have been hosted there. Zhou made a grave mistake by not collocating as he was advised to do by DCAO representatives when he first joined. He held the belief that there was bigger chance of outside security threats or single collocation operator trust issues than with major companies.
Are you going to tell me that when he described the part about less trust issues with major companies he didn't mentioned the company he was using? c'mon...  Uhh. Yes. That's exactly what I'm telling you. We were having a discussion related to collocation vs cloud in regards to general security for bitcoin applications. |
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Matthew, don't get mad for what I'm about to say. It's not an attack on you or your organization, it's just something that makes sense.
So, Zhoutong told you guys where he was hosting his hot wallet... Sorry to say, but that makes you(DCAO) suspects also. It's a lot easier to steal something if you know where it is exactly.
I would step out of that investigation if I was in your place.
It would be the almost perfect crime: You steal and then you "help" to try and catch the "thieves"...
I'm having trouble finding where I said he told anyone where he held his wallet.... We all knew where he was hosted (everyone in the community) though. Also, I love being suspect.  When you guys are ready for an interview, I'll start with the first time I ran away from home at 7. |
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subbadubdubbed. This time around, get some press passes ready for people and don't make them pay just to advertise your convention |
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The definition of Anti-money laundering is exactly that-- blocks to prevent the laundering of money. Just because it was BTC stolen and not USD doesn't change anything. Don't shoot the messenger just because I was right.
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An anonymous exchange is a place where someone could sell coins without worrying about the government forcing the exchange to give them their identity.
An anonymous exchange is a place that can advertise itself as an exchange, then take off with everyone's money after a while. MyBitcoin.com V2.0. |
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