Has there been any word from Pirate at all since the weekend?
No. Do you know if he's busy trying to pay anybody back, or did he just go "fuck it..." at this point? I am in the dark. His irc bouncer disconnected yesterday for a bit but then came back. AFAIK, he's been idle since Friday. The man deserves an extended Labour Day Weekend !!!
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I remember something about refunding the tickets if one hasn't been sold in 1 week So people: stop buying 1 lot tickets... either buy them ALL or buy NONE !!!
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Guys:
I know I am not always on topic, but please let's keep GLBSE malfunctions/competitors out of this thread !
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But developers are normal people too, so it might be possible that they are replaced with corrupt people. Does the community then still have a chance? I mean most of the people would download the new hashingtype automatically and wouldnt care about. I guess that would be more than 51%. So it could be possible to overtake bitcoin when the devs are corrupted? Or wouldnt that work?
If the Devs, the big mining companies and the miners are all corrupt, then there will probably be mass-adoption of BitCoin Because then it will be just like any other fiat currency
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This mean googledocs update is not that statement?
No, that is updated daily.... you have to wait for an official Monthly statement
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And what about "Immediately upon publication of each Statement of Profit and Loss SatoshiDice will pay to shareholders as dividends" http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=S.DICESee 2.2 e and f The P&L statements will be released no later than 5th of each month But I also read a quote from Erik that it will be the first dividend will be paid after the 1st full month after IPO, which makes sense, somewhat
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Now if only we could be 100% sure Trendon is Pirate. (some people doubt this and think Trendon is just the fall guy in the partnership.)
What does Patrick Harnett say about it? IIRC he claims to know Pirate personally. I have not asked him but I welcome him to make a reply in this thread. This makes little sense.... You guys met with a guy in Las Vegas which you assumed was pirate (I'm guessing the guy in the picture with the cap on was Trendon) If Patrick knows pirate personally then he would have commented on the fact that the guy in the picture is not pirate, right ? Also, it might be a good time to start talking about what was said in Vegas. "Whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" does not apply here any more (unless you only talked women & gambling )
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Scammer tags are for people who do not pay 1 btc loan back or ship a bad video card. Mods are like the us govt and pirate is like a large bank. I am waiting for the bailout next.
Ben 'Bitcoin' Bernanke to the rescue !
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Not to mention invalids the BFL ASICs as well, which means a couple $ 100.000s goes down the drain.... That is not necessarily true. ASIC vendors are advised to implement an alternative algorithm they can switch to in case of emergency like this. If the community felt it necessary to block out ASICMINER (or some other hostile ASIC hoarder), the other ASIC vendors would then publish their secret alternative algorithms, and Bitcoin could be made to support those. That's the first time I hear of this.... That's more dangerous in my mind than what has been said in this thread so far... Basically BFL and some big time BFL ASIC miners can protect their investment by switching over to another protocol when a competitor comes along.... If BFL ASICs represent more than 51% of the network (and from the long list of pre-orders, it sure does look like it); they can force others to switch to their other BFL protocol.... Now that is scary ! Attacking the network for commercial profits... so much for the decentralized mining theory that was the start of this conversation ! Mining majority cannot change the algorithm, only an economic majority can. I don't think anyone would be able to get most BFL miners to switch without a good reason, anyway - it's simply too risky since "greed" won't fly with the non-BFL miners. Oh, the drama! The licensed mining comes up again. Except this time the licenses are issued in the secret. There are no licenses or issued secrets. Each ASIC vendor is expected to come up with their own reasonable "secret alternative algorithm" and not tell anyone else (including developers) until such an emergency occurs. But in these early stages of Bitcoin, economic majority = mining majority, don't you agree ? Greed is rampant in the bitcoin mining community because every miner wants to protect their investment and maximize their profits, understandably so. There are not many miners that hash for free to strengthen the Bitcoin network. And with BFLs pre-sold ASICs + FPGA-range they have a pretty good lock on the mining majority unfortunately... a mining majority that has been paying a lot of money to be the first to get their hands on an ASIC to profitably mine them for as long as they can.... I hope you are right !
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Not to mention invalids the BFL ASICs as well, which means a couple $ 100.000s goes down the drain.... That is not necessarily true. ASIC vendors are advised to implement an alternative algorithm they can switch to in case of emergency like this. If the community felt it necessary to block out ASICMINER (or some other hostile ASIC hoarder), the other ASIC vendors would then publish their secret alternative algorithms, and Bitcoin could be made to support those. That's the first time I hear of this.... That's more dangerous in my mind than what has been said in this thread so far... Basically BFL and some big time BFL ASIC miners can protect their investment by switching over to another protocol when a competitor comes along.... If BFL ASICs represent more than 51% of the network (and from the long list of pre-orders, it sure does look like it); they can force others to switch to their other BFL protocol.... Now that is scary ! Attacking the network for commercial profits... so much for the decentralized mining theory that was the start of this conversation ! Edit: I hope ASICMINER has also been advised to implement this 'secret alternative' algorithm...
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Mining will yield ZERO income if the Bitcoin community decides ASICMINING is a threat and changes the hashing algorithm so our ASICs don't mine valid blocks. I'm really disappointed someone as prominent as you would make these misinformed suggestions over the rise of ASIC. It's not like this hasn't been debated thoroughly over the years here. I'm not suggesting it be done, just concerned about the risk that it might be considered necessary by the community (no one man can do it). If they haven't yet - the mining pools should introduce variable share difficulty. P2pool supports it. This way strong and weak miners can coexist peacefully. That only solves the share/result side of the problem. You still need to getwork for every 4 GH/s. An ASICMINER chip is expected to make 1GH/s so a getwork request so 1getwork/4s per chip, while a japaleno makes 3,5 GHash/s? I wonder why you come on this problem here and not in an BFL thread. I was asked here. The same "problem" applies to BFL ASICs and any other super-high speed mining device. I assume anyone making ASICs (and I know for sure including BFL) has given thought to the problem by now, and it's not like there isn't a solution developed already. BFL says they are selling 100% (or close to it?) of their ASICs immediately, and a bunch at the same time to prevent any one person from having a chance to abuse it. ASICMINER has announced they plan to hoard their first batch and mine with it before anyone else has ASICs, thus centrally controlling a Bitcoin-threatening amount of hashrate. See the difference? As for "BFL lobbying"... while I do stand with BFL, I also stand with ASICMINER - I want them to succeed, and am even a shareholder; but that doesn't make these risks/concerns just disappear either. All that being said, I'd like to note the following for anyone considering changing the algorithm: - It sounds like ASICMINER's total will be under the 50% required to do anything evil, even accounting for some variance.
- With BFL (and other vendors) shipping ASICs to consumers within 2 months, any opportunity time for abuse is very limited.
- Most 51% attacks can be dealt with after the fact; that is, the algorithm change would be more or less just as effective if it is only IF abused. So there is no need to cut it off just for holding (near) 51% short-term.
- While the "time travel" attack remains a risk that cannot easily be dealt with after the fact, the practical reality is that it takes much longer or much more percent of hashrate to pull off, which ASICMINER probably won't have (less than 2 months and not much more than 50% if that)
- Changing the algorithm breaks all old clients and miners, requiring more work for developers and forcing every miner to update.
Not to mention invalids the BFL ASICs as well, which means a couple $ 100.000s goes down the drain.... I don't see many people voting for an algorithm change... those days are over, there is too much money pre-invested...
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There is also openASIC, which is not open any more, as in not een open source project, but I believe they are still working on it
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Aren't the Devs working on a new and improved database implementation.... Which will solve most of this problem....
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The new units will be even more aesthetically pleasing than the originals.
Originals ? So they are improved FPGAs ? Or do you already have some ASICs and are you going to improve on those ?
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Will there be a power adaptor splitter a bit like Enterpoint has done, so if someone has 5 or 10 SC Japalenos or Singles, then they don't have to use 5 or 10 power adaptors taking up just as many power sockets ?
Let's first see some Jalapenos and Singles in the wild, then worry about power adaptor splitters
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Worth reading for the comments, they are pretty good !!!
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Friedcat has already stated that they will probably split the hashing power over a number of pools ! Thereby ensuring that there will be no (perceived) threat to the network. Centralized pooled mining is incompatible with ASICs, and decentralized pooled mining ultimately moves control of blocks back to the miner - that is, ASICMINING alone controls the full 12-16 TH/s. Spreading it over decentralized pools (of which there are only 3-4 right now) doesn't change that. Sorry - you lost me there - completely. Why should ASIC be incompatible with pooled mining? That's precisely the self-destructiveness I'm talking about: the "perceived" threat? You are already aware of the destructiveness and bad reputational damage that a single source of 12TH of mining would be, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to hide your hashrate amongst multiple pools. Or, say you just misinterpreted what he's doing. Say he really does think splitting up mining hashrate will alleviate the dangers of centralization. In that case, two (or one) people sit down, think a moment, and could one day decide to attempt a double-spend, or a DoS via tx block flooding, or or or. And all you do is redirect your miners to a hacked bitcoind. So that's one person. This will hurt Bitcoin value a lot, which I think is acknowledged in the prediction of a possible future where Bitcoins drop in value as a result of ASICMINER's activities. If 1 not before seen IP starts hashing away at 40% of the network speed people are going to worry... If however all pools still have the same proportional hashrate then what is there to worry about ? Or who will know this comes from 1 farm ? But yes, If Graet (nothing personal ) thinks up an elaborate scheme, hacks his bitcoind, DDOSes all other pools and ASICMINER points all its hashing power to OzCoin, then we have a problem... but what is keeping Graet from doing the same now ? (or do I misunderstand you?) To alleviate your concerns about cannibalizing your own customers, here's a quote from Friedcat on expanding ASICMINERs mining operation An additional question: Why does the company not want to or sees it feasible to expand beyond 50TH/s for their own mining farm ?
Is that an 'effort' / location constraint ?
Thanks
It may be feasible, but there are some more facts to consider: 1. When we begin to sell products to customers, limitlessly expansion will harm the buyers' motivation, hence the revenue via selling. 2. If may be better to keep the revenue for R&D of the next-generation of products than expand too much with the original technology, especially that we want to stay in the mining ASIC industry and help securing the network in the long run. Edit: I think it might be a good idea if Friedcat addressed these concerns, as someone said earlier in the thread
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Problem: private hoarding of 12TH initially and keeping the technology to yourself creates an opportunity to screw with the bitcoin blockchain. How do you intend to deal with the consequences of hashrate concentration in terms of public trust, and why do you think this is a good idea except in terms of pure profit? Why do you say this is good for Bitcoin, when you are coming dangerously close to achieving 51% truly concentrated hashrate? (Or potentially far more than that?)
Everyone mining with GPU, or FPGA right now can change the way they mine: what happens if you suddenly started mining with 44% of the entire network, and the rest of the network decided to shut you out? Say you overwhelm the potential majority vote against you with an additional reserve of hashrate: well, either way, where's the public trust? And what happens if your ASIC suddenly become useless? You are taking an enormous gamble with a lot of peoples' money by essentially hoping you're going to slip under the radar: you took the greedy route. What happens when someone gets greedy? Everybody else claws them back if they can.
As Tycho began approaching the halfway mark, there was concern: however, that was mitigated by the fact that all his miners could simply shut off or go somewhere else if it became clear that he was being naughty. In your case, this is not so. Two or three colluding people, or maybe just one, are sitting on a claimed 12TH and can easily decide to do all kinds of interesting things. Sure, it'd be obvious you're doing it, but the entire point is that people value Bitcoin for the trust in its distributed nature. Many people envisioned an inevitable distant future of participatory datacentres. You are forcing this centralization early but only by becoming it. Why do you think the results won't be a clusterf*ck for your investors?
What you're doing is asking us to trust you as people: but the nature of bitcoin is that trust is disincentivized! And better, trust is not necessary.
NOTE: I ask this as a potential investor looking into GLBSE offerings that I haven't yet. I didn't really know you guys existed.
I think you missed an important part while reading the IPO-OP ! ASICMINER will start mining with 12Th - 16TH (currently the network is over 18 TH and rising, so I doubt by the end of October ASICMINER will have even close to 40%),depending on how the ASICs turn out. Friedcat has already stated that they will probably split the hashing power over a number of pools ! Thereby ensuring that there will be no (perceived) threat to the network. Mining will ensure that investors get their money back (hopefully) and profits go towards phase 2 of the plan: selling of ASICs, where additional profits will come from (again:hopefully) I think all in all it is a well thought out plan with a minimal threat to the network or Bitcoin.... nothing to worry about if it is executed as suggested
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