You would need to pay VAT then  

The shipping rates are very fair in my opinion, FedEx shipping from Israel to US takes only around 48hours, and for 300$ on a 19kg package, it is provided at cost.

Nobody makes money on shipping nowadays.

Bitmain has the cheapest available GH at the moment afaik.

The question you are asking is: will newly bought hardware ROI (quickly).

Nobody can answer that question, as nobody knows the price of BTC in the future, aswell as the difficulty, your power costs....

So far pbmining hasn´t missed any payouts if I remember correctly.

You buy a 5 year mining contract and get the payouts from the hashing amount you purchased.
The contract is all-inclusive, no additional fees apply.

Is there some hot air containment or is the whole facility cooled as one?

What are you actually trying to do?

If you are trying to mine, it isn´t really the bitcoin client you want to have working, but a miner (eg cgminer).

I guestimate it is somewhere around 1 PH.

Bitfury group might try and sell some of their less efficient product to the general consumer market once they can produce and swap their own equipment out for more efficient miners.
This assumes they develope(d) some kind of consumer software to manage these devices.

That is what happened when they developed their last improved miner.(the 0.77W/GH model)

@Searing

Yeah, their business ethics is essentially BFL but with a little more production competence.

As I said, they will do exactly as much as required by law.
This unfortunately means that much of their product will most likely never ROI (even lass than any other product that is) and they will use any case of plausable deniabilty against you.

Production quality was horrible on the Neptune and FrankenJupiter, and it doesn´t seem to be significantly better with the Titan.

On top of that, I would advise anyone living in a facility with an active miner to invest in some fire detection equipment, which can be purchased for less than 30$ at your local hardware store
(especially if you live in a wooden aka standard American home).

There are however some instances of late delivery, particularly regarding their most recent Bitcoin miner, which was delivered late in some cases, and was (way) overpriced in all cases.

Some people unfortunately didn´t take their pre-order refund, and some weren´t allowed to.


For most miners pre-ordering doesn´t pay, however many miners have to learn this the hard way.

I had a Neptune pre-order myself, but I got my refund (after waiting approximately 2 months for it).

While KnC isn´t technically scamming anyone (intentionally) they have been operating in what I would consider a legal grey area, delivering late-ish on their promises (but not actually late most of the time).

The only reason KnC still bothers with public customers is to make you guys pay for their NRE and maybe bag some cash from nonrefundable pre-orders, and afterwards mass produce their own miners for their mining facility.

I obviously didn´t mean to say that the units aren´t sufficiently cooled (or the walls would start melting at such a high density).

I only stated that it wasn´t optimised to the fullest extent which I think is a fair comment to make.

This can be seen by the empty, not sealed spaces between units, effectively creating "holes" in the hot air containment system (if this exists behind the units, which cannot be seen).

If anyone wants to share their unit temperatures inside this facility, feel free to do so.



A good example of an optimised hosting facilty can be seen here:



When the racks are full (which they are to my knowledge) the lower static pressure caused by the exhaust fans in the hot aisle actually increases airflow through the units, outside air is cooled by evaporative coolers.

Jtoomim´s system seems to be a little more complicated but such a high density without any active AC is astonishing.

The footprint is smaller and the amount of hosted hardware is higher than in bobsag´s facility.

This whole discussion is useless.

As the industry matures, mining will obviously move (even more) towards bigger instalations, and you may be able to secure some hosted mining power /share of the facilty.

If the bitcoin price returns to 600$ soon, home mining will continue to exist in a larger fashion compared to the price staying at these levels.

It only delays this movement though.

Well, building any datacenter-like facility without hot/cold aisle containment is both inefficient aswell as outdated.

It might be cheaper in the short term, but the increased footprint aswell as less efficient cooling and miners not profiting from optimal temperatures is more expensive after 6 months.

There are undoubtedly some development tendencies that will push mining more towards bigger installations (this is nothing new).

That doesn´t mean you cant profit from this development, but your home-miner at 0.15$/kWh is indeed unlikely to ROI any time soon.


Bigger commercial buildings with 100TH+ mining power already account for more than 50% of the network.

Nobody could ever guarantee ROI for any miner, as bitcoin could be worth 1$ or 1000$ tomorrow, and many other unknown parameters influence a possible ROI.

It is highly unlikely that a large amount of hashpower would be maintained without the possibility of ROI, therefore increasing the chance of already bought equipment to achieve ROI.

The shipping date also depends on your specific order position so there isn´t really too much information anybody can give you, except spondoolies themselves.

As for the price decrease, I very much doubt that. You might be able to achieve a little more than the rated hashrate though.

B2B sales are very different from standard consumer sales and if a company gets an average order size of 1PH or more, there is no real "incentive" for bothering with "normal" customers.

Product can be sold faster and more efficiently on a larger scale, and this is one of the reasons Bitfury group only deals in bigger orders at this time.


As long as there is enough demand for large orders and the specific services Bitfury group provides, I don´t see this changing any time soon.

I think the original product description said "2nd half of October" so I would guess after the 15th.

The future of mining lies much more in the "cloud" than in home mining.

In theory, a well designed cloud mining system can provide both hardware and power at lower than residential rates.

This pooling of buy power should be enought to give both you and the managing company a profit from mining - if anyone makes profit from mining that is -


The current state of affairs seems to suggest that cloud mining is more expensive than home mining, as some people are willing to pay a premium for the conveniance of the service.
Many cloudmining providers take advantage of this and turn around HUGE profits.

The picture is from bobsag´s hosting facility, he therefore doesn´t own the majority of the shown miners.

It also looks like his thermal engineering isn´t optimised to the fullest extent, as there is a significant amount of unused space in those racks.

I think it is most likely the next chip will be at 28nm.

However, afaik Bitfury hasn´t taped out their next chip yet, so it should take at least 2 more months until first chips would be available.

And who knows, Bitfury might want to upgrade all their own hardware before selling any.

They are after all the single largest commercial bitcoin miner at the moment.


I also think it is highly unlikely that a large number of consumer product will be available, as the whole bitcoin mining space is moving towards large farms
(with already more than 50% of total hashpower being hosted in commercial, dedicated mining facilities).