Seems like somebody is selling a great deal of coins right now on your market MtGox, giving the rapid price decrease. A few robberies have occurred lately on Linode involving Slush's pool, The Faucet, Bitcoinica and others, so those great amounts of coins could be theirs. So i'm asking you guys, please, for the community's best interest, provide some public info or investigate on the issue and give those people a chance to recover their money somehow. I know this could damage the profits you could make right now but you will get our appreciation in long term and keep having the great reputation you have. As far as we can tell the Bitcoin sold on Mt.Gox are not stolen ones and there are few chance that these coins will be ever sold via our network/Mt.Gox Maybe not immediatley. But several months from now when the coins are sufficiently mixed into the network I don't see how you can avoid having any tainted coins going through Mt. Gox. The coins from that allinvain-theft are currently mixed into 100,000 addresses. And as (if I remember correctly) we agreed in another thread, MtGox should never be held to blocking Bitcoins from being bought on MtGox (unless they want to buy them themselves and eat the losses) or sold on MtGox (unless they have proof the seller is the theif) just because the coins were stolen. Money is money. Anyone who believes money has "intention" or "agenda" in itself is not involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in the process to make the FED, FinCEN and the US dollar stronger. |
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@Matthew N. Wright heh, you bet i know you dude, you're one of the most resourceful and intelligent person in this community when you're not trolling off course
Having a list of their receiving addresses in the last 24h would help us a great deal investigating and their legal binding with the clients will not be affected, i'm a client of MtGox too if that matters.
You want a private list of receiving addresses for MtGox customers? Get a warrant. (in Japan, not Spain) |
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I edited this; of course Linode doesn't steal *as a company*, I didn't mean it that way.
Oh alright then. ^^ The hell? Yes, I expect them to say exactly that. So the "grownups" are to not speak the truth these days? I prefer not to be classified with them in this case, thank you.
I was more speaking as devil's advocate for their side. Obviously it's better for us if they said that, I am just asking you-- did you really expect them to? I mean, as a business with lawyers, a stake in the financial future of their employers and assets, etc? You've never held a management position have you? Did you know merely trying to help someone in a car crash and having them die can get you sued for causing their death for holding them wrong or making a mistake? Did you know that if someone breaks into your house and gets wounded by your careless arrangement of knives or something they can sue you for that in some cases? We're not talking about sanity here, we're talking about law. They did the right thing legally to protect themselves by saying that. You want to argue morals, start a thread about morals and dishonest business. We're talking about getting Zhou's money back here. Morals will not be a factor. Yes, I expect people to tell the outright truth, or else I expect they have facts to hide or twist.
How about they have investors to protect, so that even if they have details that they know for a fact will not help anyone find the crooks, they're rather not go bankrupt for their errors? What if you're in a country where sex is punishable by death and you have sex with your girlfriend in private. Are you going to publicly announce it the next day? What if someone asks? Morality. Ho hum. And even though profit seems to be the measure of everything these days, I don't see how going with that flow is grown up at all.
No offense, but I question if you're even over the age of 18 yet. You don't sound like someone who's ever held a job either. I certainly am not impressed by Linode's security or their actions, nor am I particularly impressed by their response. I was the first one to respond to slush and Zhou tong (who are in our DCAO group) and recommend a multiple party lawsuit against them for damages. The thing anyone who has ever run a company would know though, is that it's not losing in itself, it's how you lose. If they gave Zhou back $500k just to keep quiet and not push issues publicly so that they could fix their problems and keep their business going, do you think that's bad when the alternative is bankrupting them in court fees, and Zhou gets nothing? What about insurance? What if Linode can only claim the insurance to pay Zhou back if they never publicly admit it was their fault or how much was stolen? Can you wrap your head around the idea that maybe, just possibly, less is more? Keh. Court games, involving not saying the most important fact, such that they don't have to pay what they fucked up. Makes me sick.
No one has said they won't pay. And yes, court games can be very trying and bothersome, but part of the game is knowing how to play. People who say "Herp Derp just tell the truth and everything will be okay!" don't know how to play. Are you American? Linode is in America. In US law, "What you say can and will be used against you in a court of law". That includes the honest things you say. The less the judges know, the better for everyone. If the court knows that Zhou was running Bitcoinica, what if they found a law that says because it was not registered in the US as a trading site by US rules, they will not process the case, wouldn't it have been better for them not to know that little bit of information about bitcoinica, and just mention it as a 'Linode customer'? Welcome to the Dark Side. |
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Bleep day is over. I guess I missed my turn at being a fucking foulmouthed cunt.
Goddamnit. And what a cuntlicking cumguzzling cherrypopping shitgagging fecal shower of an opportunity that would have pissed out to be. Oh well, there's always next fucking leap year to look forward to. |
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meh, no need for that. disclosing already public info from mtgox would solve any kind of doubt on it.
How do you 'disclose' already public information? What information are you looking to get? Use blockexplorer, follow the money like everyone else is doing. Case in point: It hasn't gone to MtGox. Ta-da! Btw I don't get why you're being vocal like that bashing all my statements and personally attacking me,
You must be new here. Hi. My name is Matthew. I'm vocal and bash people's statements when they are idiotic and FUD. i'm a civilized person and respectful with others and expect the same.
Civilized people file police reports because they didn't get their way for a few days? MtGox has already commented, you totally ignored it. You are not respectful. You are a trouble maker and should be avoided until you learn how to work in social situations under stress. Everyone on this forum seems responsible, civilized and respectful until you push them. |
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It is OK to try to trace the stolen BTC back to the thieves
.
But I don't think an embargo against the stolen coins is good. It would make using Bitcoins generally a lot more troublesome and it would affect the small-time users more because they wouldn't know how to check for stolen coins.
It would also successfully be controlling bitcoins, which we vow not to do (by creating it in the first place) even at the risk of supporting terrorism, rape, child abuse, murder, drug and weapon trade, genocide, etc. Money is money. The people who think it's more than just money are on the other side. |
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I wonder why everybody assumes the hacker is outside Linode.
Hi. For your information, not everyone does. We're looking into the matter to get to the bottom of that little detail as well. Isn't the most likely person to know of such security issues someone within the company?
They were a victim of their own lack of security. Unfortunately, it's the same bullshit that MtGox, the polish exchange and MyBitcoin put out when "someone used credentials" to hack. It's the perfect excuse afterall. "Oops! I was hacked! I also found a sports car in the garbage yesterday!" I didn't even know Bitcoinica was hosted there.
Nothing but the payment functions need to have been hosted there. Zhou made a grave mistake by not collocating as he was advised to do by DCAO representatives when he first joined. He held the belief that there was bigger chance of outside security threats or single collocation operator trust issues than with major companies. He still hasn't necessarily been proven wrong for that, because we don't know if Linode was behind it, but we definitely know now that that logic is flawed because it assumes that only employees and not hackers with employee credentials could be the culprits. At $200,000USD, that might be the most expensive lesson of 2012 for Bitcoin related services. Also, it reeks of sloppy admin password policy: compromised credentials used by this intruder (quote directly from Linode!) It was never said outright who the culprit was, they were careful on that point. They never said it wasn't someone who worked there, and we haven't ruled it out. It's being looked into seriously and I am pushing for a multiple party suit against them for damages. For all I can tell, the most likely scenario is that Linode stole this money, either by using the typical ridiculous internal security, or directly. Anyone serious about their reputation would pay back what they took.
Linode themselves doing this is not likely, you're wrong. What is likely is that a single underpaid employee did this. But they are claiming it was just someone with knowledge of their management panels for employees only. Possibly an ex-employee. Linode themselves should not be bashed. You don't want to put them on the defense when you need their cooperation legally and might get a settlement from them through insurance. Also, their press release is a joke. "Only eight accounts were compromised," no mention that it happened to be exactly the accounts the thief needed.
What a dumb statement. How would they know what the "thief needed". And if they were to publicly state that "a large amount of bitcoins were taken worth hundreds of thousands of dollars", do you know how easily that would seal the case against them in court for damages? Let the grownups do their job. |
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People who think the dumps at Mt. Gox is the stolen money, are absolutely clueless about everything. Gox takes money laundering more seriously than any other Bitcoin exchange. The thief would be out of his mind to try selling the coins via Gox, not now or ever.
There are better ways to do it. What we're seeing now at Gox is speculators selling because there has been serious bad news in the Bitcoin world. That's about it.
but there is a small possibility that could happen and you have to be really dumb to dismiss it completely  Christ. Would someone take the time to explain to paraipan how to use BlockExplorer.com please before he files a police report that MtGox is laundering illegally obtained money in a country out of jurisdiction? |
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In any event, I bet every major host is double checking their TOS and reminding their clientele that they don't cover "imaginary webzone dollar" losses.
If facebook's employee administrator panel was hacked into and someone stole facebook credits from users, would they say "fuck you it's imaginary money"? I hope you're being sarcastic and not an uneducated twat who has never heard of digital commodities, intellectual properties and suing for damages. Well Facebook has complete control over their own currency and could easily mitigate such issues. Bitcoin is a different animal of a different color on a different planet. This isn't a data redundancy issue, nor an intellectual property issue. This is storing, backing up and restricting access to unique digital information that once accessed and used, is no longer valuable to anyone anywhere ever again (particularly the victim). I can steal the secret formula for Coca Cola, but that doesn't prevent Coca Cola from continuing to produce and sell their beverage. I can pirate a movie, but that doesn't mean the original copy is unviewable (in the vast majority of cases). I can login and delete all of your live data, but you still likely have backups. I can't keep my wallet in a safe and have the ability to double spend my illicitly accessed bitcoin (outside of exceedingly unlikely circumstances). I do not believe that I am a twat. PS: All money is imaginary. You are trying to preach a libertarian ideal without accepting that the US legal system is not libertarian. Bring it back down to earth now. In a court of law, what Linode did was actionable. That is the only point that needs be made. P.S. I don't think you're a twat and I typically agree with you, but this point smells of agenda. A court of law and physical reality don't always agree, I'll give you that. I'm hopeful that all parties involved will work together to determine what can be done to mitigate the losses, but this is an unfortunate collision between the purity of mathematical and physical reality and legal opinion, (assuming it even gets that far), and opinion will never trump reality. Fair enough. ^^ |
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In any event, I bet every major host is double checking their TOS and reminding their clientele that they don't cover "imaginary webzone dollar" losses.
If facebook's employee administrator panel was hacked into and someone stole facebook credits from users, would they say "fuck you it's imaginary money"? I hope you're being sarcastic and not an uneducated twat who has never heard of digital commodities, intellectual properties and suing for damages. Well Facebook has complete control over their own currency and could easily mitigate such issues. Bitcoin is a different animal of a different color on a different planet. This isn't a data redundancy issue, nor an intellectual property issue. This is storing, backing up and restricting access to unique digital information that once accessed and used, is no longer valuable to anyone anywhere ever again (particularly the victim). I can steal the secret formula for Coca Cola, but that doesn't prevent Coca Cola from continuing to produce and sell their beverage. I can pirate a movie, but that doesn't mean the original copy is unviewable (in the vast majority of cases). I can login and delete all of your live data, but you still likely have backups. I can't keep my wallet in a safe and have the ability to double spend my bitcoin (outside of exceedingly unlikely circumstances). I do not believe that I am a twat. PS: All money is imaginary. Exactly - like the difference between stealing a shirt or pirating a movie . Both might cost the same but the 1st is a 100% loss to the store and the other...well, the pirate probably wouldn't have bought it anyway so no real loss. Yea, so you agree then? Linode should be held responsible since it had nothing to do with customer security and was indistinguishable from an inside job... |
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In any event, I bet every major host is double checking their TOS and reminding their clientele that they don't cover "imaginary webzone dollar" losses.
If facebook's employee administrator panel was hacked into and someone stole facebook credits from users, would they say "fuck you it's imaginary money"? I hope you're being sarcastic and not an uneducated twat who has never heard of digital commodities, intellectual properties and suing for damages. Well Facebook has complete control over their own currency and could easily mitigate such issues. Bitcoin is a different animal of a different color on a different planet. This isn't a data redundancy issue, nor an intellectual property issue. This is storing, backing up and restricting access to unique digital information that once accessed and used, is no longer valuable to anyone anywhere ever again (particularly the victim). I can steal the secret formula for Coca Cola, but that doesn't prevent Coca Cola from continuing to produce and sell their beverage. I can pirate a movie, but that doesn't mean the original copy is unviewable (in the vast majority of cases). I can login and delete all of your live data, but you still likely have backups. I can't keep my wallet in a safe and have the ability to double spend my illicitly accessed bitcoin (outside of exceedingly unlikely circumstances). I do not believe that I am a twat. PS: All money is imaginary. You are trying to preach a libertarian ideal without accepting that the US legal system is not libertarian. Bring it back down to earth now. In a court of law, what Linode did was actionable. That is the only point that needs be made. P.S. I don't think you're a twat and I typically agree with you, but this point smells of agenda. |
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Even MTGOX USD deposit is broken. I've just tried to deposit 500 USD MtGox redeem code, but got a server error. My code is gone, no balance appeared in my account. Mr. Zhou, please return me 500 USD + 6.8265 BTC, thanks!
连MTGOX USD充值都坏掉了。我刚在周家网站上充值500美刀的MTGOX充值码，结果遇到服务器错误，码被用掉了，钱没充进去。周先生，请还给我500刀加6.8265币，谢谢！
You should probably contact support about this if you haven't done so already. This forum is not meant for support questions, although notifying the community about this is a good idea of course. Anyway, I owe Mr. Zhou 900 USD earlier in another blocked account of mine. He has right to decide whether or not return this money to me. I can wait.  lol |
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In any event, I bet every major host is double checking their TOS and reminding their clientele that they don't cover "imaginary webzone dollar" losses.
If facebook's employee administrator panel was hacked into and someone stole facebook credits from users, would they say "fuck you it's imaginary money"? I hope you're being sarcastic and not an uneducated twat who has never heard of digital commodities, intellectual properties and suing for damages. |
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It's back. Now after bitcoinica publicized the thieves transactions the question is even more nagging. Everyone can follow where the money goes. MtGox support wrote in one thread that they don't expect those coins to come to them - but I think it is inevitable that at some point they will and MtGox needs to make some declarations. Will they accept coins with a track going back to the stolen amounts and let the thieves laundry them? What will do other exchanges? I have been asking this question ever since the first MtGox hack and it will be coming back again and again - so it might be a good time now to settle it down.
Bitcoin is information. We do not police information. That is the quickest way to kill Bitcoin. Let the hackers cash out and let security be the winner. If you can catch the hackers with evidence, that is great. If you can't, don't try to stop people with money from spending that money just because where it came from. |
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However, now we have concluded that we lost 43,554 BTC from this incident and we will reimburse our customers for the full amount.
I'm sincerely impressed by your good behavior here. Congratulations. Can't you try to sue Linode or something? This is mainly their fault. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the attacker is a rogue employee of theirs. Unofficially, already working on it. Officially, I'm not working with Bitcoinica and can't comment. |
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We didn't have the opportunity to scan our whole system for suspicious transactions that were not initiated from our customers because we had to shut down the system immediately after we've discovered the huge loss. We did get a rough estimate and we published a press release to warn our users about the deposit address replacement.
However, now we have concluded that we lost 43,554 BTC from this incident and we will reimburse our customers for the full amount. For transparency, we would like to disclose all the suspicious transaction ids in this incident:
I hope you get insurance next time to account for any losses due to theft. Doesn't exist. You could only have the USD insured. |
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Since everyday seems to be bleep day for me, I think I'll continue my reign of going against the masses and just take this day to say only nice things about everyone.
That won't fucking last long.
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Only one thing: - Bitcoin - Vires in Numeris
Please don't use it: I think that's not a good Latin sentence. +1 |
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Lol.
This thread reaffirms my belief that Dragon's Tale is the strangest fucking MMO on the internet.
Seconded. I am so enticed to play but I refuse to download anything. |
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Can this shit happen?  Some tinfoin hatters think this was just a ploy to drum up support for the controversial standard and that the deployment date was pushed off until April just to allow for this to happen. |
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