|
like i said earlier, i already shredded one of their team, /u/Creepedbtc, who couldn't and wouldn't shed any light on his supposed text he received from his drug dealer. he ran from that Reddit thread like dog with his tail btwn his legs.
every tag team has a weak link.
|
|
|
|
What is a cultist?
unflinching devotion;
unquestioning faith in ultimate success;
to recruit new members;
oh...and we'd like all your money (but you won't be needing it since we have 'walls of text' explaining how corrupt the current system is).
I'm starting to see the parallels.
you should go back to burying your face in your palms. i was wrong. you are a troll. once again, no intellectual arguments of your own to slander Bitcoin; simple cut and pastes from your heroes (or maybe your bosses?) btw, no one's forcing you to be in this thread. why are you wasting your time here? |
|
|
|
Cypherdoc is an admitted paid shill of HashFast.
The people who listened to him in the HasFast thread lost serious coin.
The people who listen to him now should stop immediately and seek institutionalization.
A safe, controlled setting where they will no longer be a danger to themselves or society, to be studied by dedicated psychiatric professionals.
Perhaps even partially cured with the aid of powerful modern psychotropics and/or daring and innovative surgical procedures.
and more ppl who listened to me since 2011 to buy Bitcoin have made serious money. old news dude. i've already said many times the HF endorsement was a bad one. it was for Batch #1 only and i've not been involved for over 10 mo now. none of their poor decisions involved me and i had no control over their internal actions. nice try on attempting to make it seem like it's all my fault while tying that debacle to Bitcoin. but given your lack of intellectual arguments about why ppl should avoid Bitcoin, you're not really interested in the truth, are you? |
|
|
|
I've said it ten times the past month....this "situation" in mining does not lead to centralization, exactly the opposite.
You know when you guys keep harping about "economy of scale" well that doesn't always mean what you obviously think it means.
You need to rethink the difference between a hobbyist miner with a couple of TH running in their basement vs a commercial building being supplied with a 0.5MW supply and transformer, and wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw....and a myriad of other expenses that little children like yourselves have never encountered because you have never leased a commercial building to set up a business and you have no idea of the intricacies of business dealings at that scale.
I can't see how they are doing it when I consider the logistics and costs....certainly not with the efficiencies we have today at sub $400 prices.
are you speaking from experience? i can relate as a 2TH hobbyist. i traded simple services for my electrician to wire in eight special 240W outlets (i'm oversupplied) with its own subpanel to the 2nd flr room of a building i already own. i put the miners up next to an open sliding door with a balcony and lined up fans pointing outwards up against the screen door. i had one of my workers install a $200 external barred gate like this for security. no other cooling:  the room is exposed to the open air 24/7 all year long. no licenses, insurance or any other special expenses except for electricity. i had additional Cat5/6 wiring run thru the walls to an external closet connecting the server with the asics to an existing internet connection used for other purposes. throw in a large roller rack. total cost of setup and other ancillary materials, maybe $400. it pays to be small and nimble. Yes, exactly...your costs benefit from the economy of scale I'm talking about. Small and nimble is what works in these days of high mining diff. Now consider if you want to lease a commercial building of 50-100k sq ft. It costs $3-5 per square foot for that alone....on a minimum one year term. To lease the building you need to tell the landlord and the municpality has to approve what the use will be...as soon as you tell them a half dozen riders get dropped onto the lease. Liability insurance in the millions...usually 10 million for a building like that Transformer installation....ask yourself what a transformer capable of 0.5MW costs to install Electrical approvals, all electricals installed by licensed electricians, and the panels signed off by same Here's the kicker....in order to install electronics such as these in an industrial setting you are never going to get away with plugging in equipment that has no CSA/UL/CE approval. Certainly not 1000 units of electronic equipment that is not approved for your country...now you are into electrical approvals/hipot tests at a minimum...better hope the company you bought them from designed these properly Do it illegally? No insurance will cover you. And your local hydro department will never turn on the mains without it. Now think about racking Now think about networking costs and cabling costs for the units when the runs are 10x longer power supplies....most mining hardware requires your own fire prevention/suppression? How are you going to handle that? cooling? How many tons of AC? Does it have to be installed? internet bandwidth? You are not running this off a single DSL/Cable modem connection Already own a 2-3 million dollar building you want to use for mining?...great, you can strip away a few of those requirements but most are still applicable. And now you have a 2-3 million dollar asset not generating leasing revenue... this is actually a very important point you're bringing up, especially now with difficulty so high. early on back in 2011, i could see from my limited GPU mining that anything on scale would come at an enormous cost of money and time. i made the choice back then to hoover up coins on all dips as it seemed the simplest, cheapest, and easiest way to accumulate. mining is just another way of accumulating; but way more labor intensive. as a fixed supply currency, i figured the price could only go up, as long as their was no security or source code bug. i figured out myself that the economics were sound based on my investing history in the stock mkt and with pm's. riding gold up from 550 to 1923 gave me a good perspective on what a sound form of money can do given our inflationary Fed and the politics of a over leveraged economy. investing thru the crashes of the 2000 & 2008 bubble/crash helped as well. bottom line is my perspective has not changed one bit. imo, we're just experiencing another major dip. in fact, this one might be manipulated, as much as i've resisted saying that in the past. it's now very possible with the new derivatives exchanges we have. so yes, i'm buying this dip too and i think those who were considering getting into mining, and probably even those into mining currently, are doing the math and will decide it's simply much cheaper and easier to buy the coins directly. |
|
|
|
The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin.
The common talking points are:
Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back.
Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof.
Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus.
No consumer protection - No need to elaborate.
Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash.
There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?"
Cite your sources.  What are we at Yale? well, yeah. many of us went to the best schools in the nation so who the hell do you think you are simply copying and pasting someone else's post? unless you really are part of a concerted effort to troll the price down today. |
|
|
|
...it pays to be small and nimble.
Pays even better when you're a HashFast shill, no? at least you were warned, no? |
|
|
|
I've said it ten times the past month....this "situation" in mining does not lead to centralization, exactly the opposite.
You know when you guys keep harping about "economy of scale" well that doesn't always mean what you obviously think it means.
You need to rethink the difference between a hobbyist miner with a couple of TH running in their basement vs a commercial building being supplied with a 0.5MW supply and transformer, and wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw....and a myriad of other expenses that little children like yourselves have never encountered because you have never leased a commercial building to set up a business and you have no idea of the intricacies of business dealings at that scale.
I can't see how they are doing it when I consider the logistics and costs....certainly not with the efficiencies we have today at sub $400 prices.
are you speaking from experience? i can relate as a 2TH hobbyist. i traded simple services for my electrician to wire in eight special 240W outlets (i'm oversupplied) with its own subpanel to the 2nd flr room of a building i already own. i put the miners up next to an open sliding door with a balcony and lined up fans pointing outwards up against the screen door. i had one of my workers install a $200 external barred gate like this for security. no other cooling: the room is exposed to the open air 24/7 all year long. no licenses, insurance or any other special expenses except for electricity. i had additional Cat5/6 wiring run thru the walls to an external closet connecting the server with the asics to an existing internet connection used for other purposes. throw in a large roller rack. total cost of setup and other ancillary materials, maybe $400. it pays to be small and nimble. |
|
|
|
$DXY opens up; this is still causing a problem for all risk assets:  |
|
|
|
|
from the top at 1163 on Bitstamp, we are only down 67-68%. that's not bad, nor unusual, for Bitcoin pullbacks.
try 32 --> 1.98.
|
|
|
|
Inflationary spiral ? If cost of electricity is bigger than price of bitcoin and miners turn off their asics then nobody is unable to mine. It will take years until difficulty dropped. (it will take months to mine 2016 blocks by hobby miners to adjust difficulty (instead of 14 days) )
it won't happen that way. you won't get a huge dropoff in hashing rate to cause such an air gap. if we do, that would be a huge security risk for the network. more likely though, if it has to happen at all, is that large mines go out and get USD loans to pay their variable costs to get them thru what will hopefully be from here a short term drop in the price. that is, if they've managed their costs properly for a rainy day like we have now. sure we could see a drop but it won't be dramatic. they have to keep those asics running while they're still top of the line tech. guys like me will also mine out of public duty, even if at a loss, so as to protect my overall investment in the space. which is also why i run a bunch of full nodes. Yes, you will mine, because you want to protect your investment (as hobby miner), but what about mining farm(10,000,000 Ghash ..10%) will they pay millions of dollars for electricity. as i said in my post, i think they will go out and get loans or offer equity financing if necessary to keep themselves running. sure, its possible that a few players get shaken out but we are not going to see a precipitous drop in hashing rate. what i suspect will happen is a shake out of some of the smaller miners once they reach the point that they cant afford to mine anymore leaving a further monopoly of big time miners. whether you like it or not, this is leading to further centralization. the big guys can last longer at a loss than the small guys. i'm still waiting   |
|
|
|
Inflationary spiral ? If cost of electricity is bigger than price of bitcoin and miners turn off their asics then nobody is unable to mine. It will take years until difficulty dropped. (it will take months to mine 2016 blocks by hobby miners to adjust difficulty (instead of 14 days) )
it won't happen that way. you won't get a huge dropoff in hashing rate to cause such an air gap. if we do, that would be a huge security risk for the network. more likely though, if it has to happen at all, is that large mines go out and get USD loans to pay their variable costs to get them thru what will hopefully be from here a short term drop in the price. that is, if they've managed their costs properly for a rainy day like we have now. sure we could see a drop but it won't be dramatic. they have to keep those asics running while they're still top of the line tech. guys like me will also mine out of public duty, even if at a loss, so as to protect my overall investment in the space. which is also why i run a bunch of full nodes. Yes, you will mine, because you want to protect your investment (as hobby miner), but what about mining farm(10,000,000 Ghash ..10%) will they pay millions of dollars for electricity. as i said in my post, i think they will go out and get loans or offer equity financing if necessary to keep themselves running. sure, its possible that a few players get shaken out but we are not going to see a precipitous drop in hashing rate. I think it will be same ... but this implies, price of bitcoin cannot drop under mining costs. ... and this implies (if you look at hashrate) that price must be growing by 1 order of magnitude every 8 months. ... or some disaster will come ... I do not know the result, but it will be BIG next year (cannot wait) :-) whoever these guys are that are throwing so much fiat into mining eventually will realize it's just cheaper and easier to buy coins directly. |
|
|
|
Inflationary spiral ? If cost of electricity is bigger than price of bitcoin and miners turn off their asics then nobody is unable to mine. It will take years until difficulty dropped. (it will take months to mine 2016 blocks by hobby miners to adjust difficulty (instead of 14 days) )
it won't happen that way. you won't get a huge dropoff in hashing rate to cause such an air gap. if we do, that would be a huge security risk for the network. more likely though, if it has to happen at all, is that large mines go out and get USD loans to pay their variable costs to get them thru what will hopefully be from here a short term drop in the price. that is, if they've managed their costs properly for a rainy day like we have now. sure we could see a drop but it won't be dramatic. they have to keep those asics running while they're still top of the line tech. guys like me will also mine out of public duty, even if at a loss, so as to protect my overall investment in the space. which is also why i run a bunch of full nodes. Yes, you will mine, because you want to protect your investment (as hobby miner), but what about mining farm(10,000,000 Ghash ..10%) will they pay millions of dollars for electricity. as i said in my post, i think they will go out and get loans or offer equity financing if necessary to keep themselves running. sure, its possible that a few players get shaken out but we are not going to see a precipitous drop in hashing rate. |
|
|
|
Inflationary spiral ? If cost of electricity is bigger than price of bitcoin and miners turn off their asics then nobody is unable to mine. It will take years until difficulty dropped. (it will take months to mine 2016 blocks by hobby miners to adjust difficulty (instead of 14 days) )
it won't happen that way. you won't get a huge dropoff in hashing rate to cause such an air gap. if we do, that would be a huge security risk for the network. more likely though, if it has to happen at all, is that large mines go out and get USD loans to pay their variable costs to get them thru what will hopefully be from here a short term drop in the price. that is, if they've managed their costs properly for a rainy day like we have now. sure we could see a drop but it won't be dramatic. they have to keep those asics running while they're still top of the line tech. guys like me will also mine out of public duty, even if at a loss, so as to protect my overall investment in the space. which is also why i run a bunch of full nodes. |
|
|
|
Trolls are getting overconfident  Am I a troll because I dare speak to the all powerful wealthy elite? Who's saying you can't speak? Its what you say that matters. Maybe there should have been more people like Gavin Andresen warning people about the risks of buying a remarkable new tool at nevertheless outrageously inflated prices? You can't blame anyone but yourself for buying Bitcoin at a certain price. Had the price gone up you would have a different tune. Stop blaming others for your inadequacies. Thanks!  Lol at my inadequacies. I'm already hiding my face in shame guys. Lay off no need to. everyone has to learn the fundamentals, even as a later early adopter  i'm just relieved you're not one of what i think are bank trolls hammering Reddit today. we had one punk put up a troll post this morning so i'm on high alert: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hp0wp/i_had_a_weirdunsettling_bitcoin_experience_and/after being challenged by me, the troll just disappeared. |
|
|
|
Think about how much money was invested, both by consumers and manufacturers, into pushing the difficulty up several orders of magnitude over the past year. That's all money that could have and arguably would have been invested into driving the BTC price up. A lot of the fresh fiat has been going into the mining industry instead of the price. This is of course self-limiting, and so with all that investment happening behind the scenes, when the curtain is pulled back (when buying mining equipment becomes unprofitable), without any outside reason for the investment to slow down, it should start funneling back into the price.
yes, this is a variation of my bucket theory in which different components of the Bitcoin economny take on water at different rates and different times to different levels. the main point being that the water levels of all buckets are rising in aggregate. So it's like the hose is the exponentially growing stream of new money coming into the Bitcoin investment space, and it just goes into different buckets, one of which is actual price growth. That means as long as either price or mining (or perhaps VC money into startups?) continue upward then nothing is amiss. yeah, my personal buckets are price, consumer adoption, merchants, exchanges, mining, +/- ATM's. for a while now we've been seeing increases in basically everything except the price, which is the most speculative bucket of them all that varies most with sentiment and cyclical variation. we're in a bear cycle which will eventually bottom out. it's a good time to buy and then hold at least to 2020. of course, all this is predicated on a belief in the fundamentals of Bitcoin and its real world relationship to finance and the economy, which is what we discuss in this thread ad nauseum. if you think its all been one massive pump and dump from mass illusion then you sell or short. but by my estimation, nothing has changed. you have to be very suspicious that we've had numerous ramps since 2009 that have been recoveries from huge crashes. ponzi's don't bounce. something is going on here. |
|
|
|
Think about how much money was invested, both by consumers and manufacturers, into pushing the difficulty up several orders of magnitude over the past year. That's all money that could have and arguably would have been invested into driving the BTC price up. A lot of the fresh fiat has been going into the mining industry instead of the price. This is of course self-limiting, and so with all that investment happening behind the scenes, when the curtain is pulled back (when buying mining equipment becomes unprofitable), without any outside reason for the investment to slow down, it should start funneling back into the price.
yes, this is a variation of my bucket theory in which different components of the Bitcoin economny take on water at different rates and different times to different levels. the main point being that the water levels of all buckets are rising in aggregate. |
|
|
|
Trolls are getting overconfident Am I a troll because I dare speak to the all powerful wealthy elite? Who's saying you can't speak? Its what you say that matters. Maybe there should have been more people like Gavin Andresen warning people about the risks of buying a remarkable new tool at nevertheless outrageously inflated prices? This is precisely why you're going to have a bad time in this thread; that suggestion is idiotic. How is Gavin, of all people supposed to know what is an outrageous price? And how's it his responsibility? You made the choice to invest at 550. That's your problem. |
|
|
|
Trolls are getting overconfident Am I a troll because I dare speak to the all powerful wealthy elite? Who's saying you can't speak? Its what you say that matters. |
|
|
|
BlindMayorBitcorn, you're suffering from a version of the "I-don't-want-to-make-early-adopters-rich" fallacy:
[quote author =Peter R link=topic=517759.msg5723326#msg5723326 date=1394948300]
The forum is slow today, so I thought I'd share a thought that hit me yesterday.
"I don't want to make early adopters rich."
I've heard this said in person and I've read it in reader comments on MSM articles. But is doesn't actually make sense. The benefit to early adopters moving forward in time is exactly the same as to adopters who choose to buy today. Early adopters may already be rich, but if that's true then it's already happened. As of right now, it is just as risky to continue to hold, as it is to choose to buy.
Consider this: Alice and Bob each have $1,000,000 in financial assets. Alice is an early adopter of bitcoin and holds half her wealth in BTC. Bob just learned about bitcoin today, and holds 100% of his wealth in US treasuries and stocks. The risk Bob takes by moving $500,00 into BTC simply puts him at the same risk level as Alice moving forward in time. The fact that Alice's bitcoins performed well in the past has no bearing on portfolio allocation moving forward. Alice choosing to continue to hold $500,000 in bitcoin is just as risky as Bob deciding to buy $500,000 of BTC.
The public cannot make early adopters un-rich by not investing in bitcoin. And by investing in bitcoin, the public makes early and current investors rich to the exact same degree from this point in time moving forward.
What if Bob didn't have jack shit to begin with. Just sayin' [/quote] The whole early adopter argument is ludicrous. They took enormous risks with hard earned fiat to get this project off the ground. Furthermore, name one other investment in the world that doesn't have this early adopter dynamic. |
|
|
|
It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards
You feel annoyed because your position is vulnerable, like anyone else's whose only crypto is Bitcoin. And your constant shilling here for POS, despite claiming you were done with this thread, indicates you are worried that your investment in pos is vulnerable. You're shilling for Bitcoin, telling newbies to buy a losing investment and be bagholders for early adopters who are in this position: it'll need to get into single digits before we feel any pain.
Oh and I didn't mention PoS. I said to hedge against Bitcoin decline. They need to research themselves what to hedge with. Once again, you totally distort and misunderstand the situation. My definition of a shill is someone who is paid to temporarily jump into an issue they don't fundamentally understand and push an agenda for a vested interest. This thread and my position as an early adopter is the antithesis of that. Basically, you're taking the idiotic position that because I said what I did in that quote, that anything positive I have to say about Bitcoin should be disregarded. Well, there happen to be a hell of alot of people who disagree with you if the number of views for this thread is any indication, not to mention it has been going on for over 3 years. There are plenty of valuable things I and others have had to say here, unlike you, that people come to read. Including you, despite your promise to exit awhile ago. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
