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501  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 09:02:41 PM
pic related?
502  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 09:01:35 PM
your point being?
That it's a developmental stage, and if children were indoctrinated with it, presumably some would not exhibit that stage. Yet, all do.
point taken. but its also human nature to make wars...

Apparently you don't have these people in your country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janitor

The idea is that you pay him enough to go around and clean all the toilets (and floors, walls, etc) daily, so that they do not get too dirty.

And you see, it is a pretty big deal, because these are exactly the sorts of problems that destroy socialist societies. It's almost never the big things. It's the tiny little details that do it.
you did see the "insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?" part didn't you.

anyways, the janitor have not yet been around my toilet. i have done it myself.
503  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Decrits Digest: Solution for a value stable, truly decentralized currency on: April 28, 2013, 08:51:23 PM
the bitcoin network itself is not resistant against a 51% attack, true. but the people that monitors it are hard to confuse, and knows when its not working.

Correct, but dishonest mining hardware can't be destroyed; Decrits shares can. The people that monitor Decrits are being paid to do so, whereas only miners in bitcoin get paid, decentralization++. They also have a say in which network is correct by dropping suspicious TB activity. Non-miners in bitcoin have no say. And all this is achieved without using proof-of-work.

If 99% of the SHs are completely corrupt and 100% of the CN is completely honest: Decrits user unaffected. It's a slam dunk in BFT.
and i still claim that your system can be exploited when you are a implementation.
504  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:47:36 PM
Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa
not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.
You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

children: no.
younger siblings: yes. (and yes they are annoying)
So, who taught your younger sibling "Mine" when they were two? Was it you? Your mother?
ME!!! (and my mother of course)

your point being?

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?
the people who shit in them, just as now.
OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?
then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.
What if nobody ever wants to clean it, because now it's too dirty?
who would do it in a capitalistic society? what if there was a insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?

someone will always in the end clean the toilet! it is no big deal.
505  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Decrits Digest: Solution for a value stable, truly decentralized currency on: April 28, 2013, 08:41:35 PM
you could say that, but you have yet to fully specify the system and as a consequence i can only poke around and look for week points.

I agree. However, if the network can perform as I will describe, the best EvilCorp. can do is temporarily fork the network. This is the "end game" scenario if EvilCorp has sufficiently infiltrated the CN and the SHs. What they will accomplish is being able to confuse *some* people temporarily, at the cost of their shares being destroyed on the honest network. Unlike bitcoin, an attempted takeover will be quickly and ultimately obvious to everyone who has paid attention to the network for any length of time (SH activity is kept in separate ledger so that even light clients can verify the network has not had any problems very easily and for a small amount of bandwidth).

To convince the people that EvilCorp.'s network is the honest one, they would have to control every corner of communication within and outside the network. It simply is not feasible for anyone to accomplish this in a sufficiently large network (or even a pretty small one). Honest merchants are intended to be the primary SHs because they will be able to recoup their transaction fees for essentially no effort while securing transactions at the same time by only keeping track of network data they already needed to keep track of for timely confirmations (efficiency++, decentralization++). If you are one of the confused and Amazon, Walmart, and Best Buy all say "hey d00ds, this one's the honest network", do you believe them, or do you go with the side that isn't identifying itself?

And what can this attack accomplish? Potentially getting away with a few double/bad spends on an unsuspecting victim who manages to agree to part with product even though half the network is missing? They will destroy the shares of the honest side of the network and could then potentially change the code, but no one is going to buy it.

It is an idea I came up with very early on in the Encoin proposals: allowing EvilCorp. to make its own fork and let the users decide which fork loses every single decrit they invested in causing these shenanigans. It is a PERMANENT solution to eliminating a threat at the cost of temporary confusion that will be caused anyway. Honest bitcoin miners cannot destroy EvilCorp.'s mining hardware, so they are free to continue to mess with the network on a whim. Point: Massively in favor of Decrits.
the bitcoin network itself is not resistant against a 51% attack, true. but the people that monitors it are hard to confuse, and knows when its not working.
506  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:37:02 PM
Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa
not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.
You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

children: no.
younger siblings: yes. (and yes they are annoying)

and yet i have this discussion with you.
But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?
the people who shit in them, just as now.
OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?
then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.
507  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:31:38 PM
the way i see you AnCap people:
508  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:28:41 PM
Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa
not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?
the people who shit in them, just as now.
509  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:20:27 PM
your AnCap society is just as much a fairyland as mine NoPP one.
510  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:18:33 PM
No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.
Awesome. Please implement this as soon as possible, I look forward to laughing as your society collapses.
why would i collapse? please explain.
511  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:10:17 PM
... pyramid snip ...
oh, so now im property?
Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.
i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.
Then he'll walk away with your bike.
okay... i will find another one. Smiley
But these things cost, don't they? Or are bikes free in the fairyland kingdom of Denmark?
No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.
512  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:02:48 PM
... pyramid snip ...
oh, so now im property?
Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.
i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.
Then he'll walk away with your bike.
okay... i will find another one. Smiley
513  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 08:02:01 PM
And that my friend says it all.  That's why you think what you think.  If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.
...and you completely missed the point: i own stuff because society expects me to. i want to own stuff because society expects me to.
if the society had other expectations i would do what was expected, if i lived in a society where no one owned anything, i would not own anything because society expects me to.

Private property is a social construct, just like natural rights.

I think it's really sad the way that people get brainwashed in socialist countries.  I hope you break free before it becomes too ingrained because your big warm, fuzzy, bountiful government won't stay warm and fuzzy and bountiful forever.    This always happens.  The herd become helpless and dependent on the government.   My advice would be not to get into society group-think.  Think for yourself.
my life explained:
Code:
while(happiness_level() >= 70) {
    chill();
    do_as_im_used_to();
    relax();
    party();
}
514  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
... pyramid snip ...
oh, so now im property?
Indeed, your body is an amount of matter which has a definite physical location, and belongs to someone. In other words, property. If that matter is unowned, it can be claimed and used by anyone.
i can not be claimed by someone i would just laugh at him, and explain that i do not recognize ownership of anykind.
515  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Decrits Digest: Solution for a value stable, truly decentralized currency on: April 28, 2013, 07:53:58 PM
your system is huge , complex and failish, there is alot of stuff that could and will go wrong. you are giving the power of the system to the devs(central control) from the start. and you cannot buy in with out all current SH agrees. and no one hold my money, and the network cannot do such a task without central control, or the possibility of fail.

bitcoin is different: anyone can buy hardware to mine, no one have(or can ever gain) absolute veto rights.

now give me my btc: 13MXCTA2CPYbREMqNaf5VK2ArSc3QYm8cc
Which means you concede that, on paper, you have not been able to defeat the system. Tongue
you could say that, but you have yet to fully specify the system and as a consequence i can only poke around and look for week points.
516  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 06:38:31 PM
Who owns your life, then?
We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)
Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?
no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.
Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?
no, why would i do that?
Unowned property can be used by whoever comes along. If you are unowned, then you should acquiesce to any demands anyone who comes along makes.

Would you like to change your mind on who owns you now?
oh, so now im property? i said i cannot be owned, and no one controls me. if i do not accept the idea of self-ownership, that means that the ugly dude also does not own himself, and i can therefor command him as i wishes.

I still have the illusion of free will, i can choose to do what i like.
517  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Decrits Digest: Solution for a value stable, truly decentralized currency on: April 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
Your continued unsubstantiated accusations are getting old. I have responded politely and in detail each time so far then you jump to another topic, wait for my explanation, then call into question my intellgence without conceding or continuing to argue the previous point. Twice now even responding with an attack vector to a post that already provides the answer to that vector, and using my "lack of knowledge" as proof.

"This is thwarted by the larger and more diverse CN, [...] The only way to get around this is to also control the vast majority of the CN, and really, a large portion of the CNCs/SPs as well. At this point you are just playing with yourself. Don't forget that this will also require a not insignificant percentage of all the coins in existence."
come up with a working implementation, give me the source and i will destroy it. the bet still stands.
518  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 06:31:24 PM
Who owns your life, then?
We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)
Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?
no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.
Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?
it depends. is she pretty?
He is very ugly.
no, why would i do that?
519  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 06:31:05 PM
And that my friend says it all.  That's why you think what you think.  If you owned more stuff, you would not think it belongs to other people.
...and you completely missed the point: i own stuff because society expects me to. i want to own stuff because society expects me to.
if the society had other expectations i would do what was expected, if i lived in a society where no one owned anything, i would not own anything because society expects me to.

Private property is a social construct, just like natural rights.
520  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism on: April 28, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
Who owns your life, then?
We have been there once already: property is not well defined. No, i don't own myself. (is that what i need to say to win?)
Well, if you don't own yourself, who does?
no one, im unowned. I reject the concept of private property.
Then if someone demands that you give them oral sex, you will?
it depends. is she pretty?

knowing the definition does not mean that its always well defined.
Actually, yeah, that's exactly what it means.

absurd example:
an alien race decided for many millions years ago, ot play god,  and create the planet earth, and they therefor owns it, and everything on it.
now we humans live and owns the earth.
what will happen when they come back, and take back the earth and us humans that they created? who owns what?
They abandoned their property, and we've been maintaining it since. It's ours, and they can't take it.
they did not abandon it, they have had a eye on it ever since they created it. for them, they could just have been away for what they think is like 2 minutes.
and do you call maintenance to drop nuclear bomb everywhere?
 
do you eat meat? 
I do indeed. I assume you have a point here.
you know some people like to extend the so-called natural rights to every living being, right?

well you just violated a cute cow's inalienable right to live, by having someone kill it so you could eat a good and tasty beef.
A cow is an animal. It does not have rights, for it is unable to assert them, or even understand the concept.

now if you say that your natural rights does not work that way, i will say that they are arbitrary and therefor not natural, and ask you: "do black people have natural rights?".
Black what now? Black people. They're people, aren't they? They have rights.
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