Wow - you really are angry.  I provided a counter, and there is this angry, shouty person on the other side.  I wasn't necessarily arguing for or against, but putting a point of view - and one that was deliberately at the other extreme of the quoted post.  That you can not see this for what it is (and the comedic juxtaposition) is a worry.  

(Starfish leaves Vladimir to save the world and gets on with something else.)

Investing returns are random within a range based on what you know of the underlying asset/business/investment.  Sounds like gambling.

Blackjack (as an example) is not random, but again returns are within a range based on the rules of the game.

Both involve some skill, as opposed to a simple game of chance.  Even BS&T allows some skill to be applied, such as due diligence on different aspects of the business.

I can understand some people wanting that, but it doesn't actually help.

I have no particular interest in holding USD, EUR or GBP.  I tend to spend JPY and sometimes SGD when holidaying or AUD.  I have some PhP lying around on my desk and managed to convert my XPF into FJD some time ago.  (I actually think I gave away my spare EUR to someone that normally uses NOK.)

I do business in BTC and movements to the USD don't matter.  It's the same as someone trading in EUR, they don't care about the USD either.

I was actually observing the "all or nothing" approach being challenged by the Kelly reference as to why you might not want to do that.  In simple optimisation problems (multdimensional linear/binary/non-linear) and point in an interior space is sub-optimal and that's why the simplex method for LP is so easy (it traces the n-dimensional space to an optimum provided the Kuhn-Tucker conditions are met - typically a concave space).

The other aspect of investing/gambling is expected payoff versus average payoffs and that is why people typically diversify their portfolios.  Putting 1000 BTC on a horse to win might have a 100k BTC return, and might have a higher expected return than a BS&T account or a 1% deposit account, but getting enough horse races to get that return becomes unlikely.

As for the difference between gambling and investing, what is your subtle difference between these? 

Note the requirements.  This typically means more than you think by orders of magnitude.

Great how bias works - try this.

Let's just see how alleged Pirate ponzi fares on SEC check list:

High investment returns with little or no risk  --> Nope, huge risk it might all dissapear at a moment's notice.

Overly consistent returns. --> Check - like most businesses, you smooth out returns by using a float (working capital), that's how banks offer fixed rate deposits.

Unregistered investments. --> Not anonymous, simple internet search reveals more than enough information.

Unlicensed sellers.  --> Check, but then 99%+ of bitcoin people are unlicensed.

Issues with paperwork.  --> No. No paperwork, no issues, but he keeps meticulous records.

Secretive and/or complex strategies.  -> Check, big secret to avoid competition, just like most businesses with IP to protect.

3 out of six and two other "hits" are not uncommon in legitimate businesses with "unlicensed" typical of bitcoin.

I am interested at the number of lies you managed to squash into that post.

1: I did not sell my PPT.DIV shares a few weeks ago.  Over the past few weeks I have purchased and sold shares on my own account.
2: Those I have sold were at an average price much lower than 1.00 and my decision to sell was based on information fully publicly available.
3: The vote was not to shut down the PPT.x offerings, but to change the floor price.

It would appear you wish to ignore the facts that are available and slander various people along the way.

I have posted into Lanternblue's request thread and received a pm as well asking for loan requirements.  It is pretty simple I'm not going to extend credit on something that doesn't exist.  However, this post is worth responding to.

I can and have provided legal documents for some people to execute.  I don't pretend to be a "bank", and to avoid simple theft it is sensible to find out some basic things about someone asking for money.

Loans are short because the interest rates (to cover risk of default) makes long term loans prohibitively expensive.
They are also small because for many people getting into bitcoins, 5BTC is a fortune, and lenders don't like plopping 500 coins down on an unknown person.

Personally, I don't expect someone to do anything with a one day, 1BTC loan.

I would also observe that coming into the lending section and swearing at everyone is not a good tactic.  Jcole tried that, as have several others.

They're in cereal boxes.

Due to people like piotr_n I'm an angry Starfish and tired of the ignorant bullshit that people like this spout.  Anyway, I'm doing something about it fyi.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81637.msg1012031#msg1012031

In response to some sensible questions from PPT.DIV holders, and some quite stupid and ill informed comments by some others, I have decided to make a stand in the market for ALL PPT.DIV shares at or around 0.25   I have 6,250 bids currently placed.  This represents at least three months dividends based on 0.02/share which is current, and does not include any further drop which I calculated today might see it fall to 0.01/share per week.  This price also reflects the fact that a few months of dividends has already passed.

If I did a loan like this, the device would go to my mining escrow agent until paid.

However, there is more credit risk than simply the lender in situations like this, it's the manufacturer as well.  We're in the second half of 2012 and BFL are still working through a backlog of orders.  There is no doubt they have that product - the new one is a bit unknown.

Someone wants a 250 coin loan for some BFL SC stuff.  A really good rate for an unsecured loan would be 2%/week.  Let's have it start at 1 July 2012.

1-Jul-2012 250 established, interest 5 coins/week.

by 9-Sep, interest has reached 6 coins/week and the balance is 304.7
by 4-Nov  interest has reached 7 coins/week and the balance is 357.1
by 23-Dec  interest has reached 8 coins/week and the balance is 410.1

And, if by some miracle BFL actually deliver, you owe 410.1BTC and need to mine at 8 coins/week just to pay interest.

40Ghash BFL SC single.
Possible network speed 30Thash (modest, about double current based on an assessment of how many MR-SC will be released). 
Difficulty 3.5M, so 40 Ghash might deliver 6 coins/day (25 coins/block)

If, more likely, you are in the queue and wait a further three months, your loan is now 510 BTC and 10 coins/week in interest.
Difficulty will be higher as all those singles will be shipped, and you're earning 20 coins/week, so payback is going to take most of 2013.


My alternative (and I am actually doing this) is not to give BFL any money until they actually have product.  I'm sticking 250 coins into my BS&T account and by the end of the year my 250 deposit is around 1000 coins.  Then I'm doing my upgrade order and waiting "4-6 weeks" delivery and as the price of coins is likely to have moved, the 250 coin cost might only be 200 (or less).  I'm still mining at 20 coins/week, but with 800 more coins in the bank.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017

Balances updated as at about now.

This is actually quite funny.  I've always had my account on payout rather than reinvest.

Yes, I'm spending some coins, about a day's worth.  And given my history around here and my risk profile, being called "lucky" from someone new is, as I said, amusing.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84113.0

your history follows you

And in other news, I was asked for a group photo with the respected bitcoiners of this community to prove I wasn't a fake PatrickHarnett.  I don't mind being a false PatrickHarnett, but I have no idea what the rest of you look like, haven't met you, and might do so in a couple of years.  Photos don't necessarily prove anything.

(as far as I know, I'm not a fake, but I provided some other credentials to someone I've never met, spoken with or seen - I hope they weren't a fake.  And if they recognise this - I hope they get a good laugh out of it too)

Subbing, but I have something else to do (real BTC work) before providing some economics on how expensive a BFL loan actually is.

Or people can do what they have already been doing - posting a thread (I look at new posts frequently), or pm me the information required (which they also do).

No.

PPT.DIV gets profit.  The insurance fund is not a generated profit, but funds contributed from the six founders.

Profit is net income after expenses/costs, not gross.