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541  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoinica now supports Alipay deposit! on: February 23, 2012, 01:10:05 AM
Isn't AliPay about as reversible as PayPal?


No, the root of all reversibility is the Visa/MasterCard credit card system used by Americans.

Chinese banking system is entirely different. Chinese people don't use Visa/MasterCard for domestic purchases, online payments require strict authentication, banks are usually not responsible for fund losses, etc.

Everything is very Bitcoin-like, and non-reversible.

More than half of Alipay's transactions are escrows.
542  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Encoutering Zhoutong, the founder of Bitcoinica on: February 22, 2012, 04:53:31 PM
Z: No. I'm about to study in Australia.

i'm sure you'll get a friendly welcome here z, plenty of aussies would be keen for a chat.


Yepo... Whenever you are in Melbourne; make sure you send me a message Smiley

Sure. I'll go to Trinity College in March.
543  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoinica now supports Alipay deposit! on: February 22, 2012, 04:28:43 PM
This will be huge!
Will you also be supporting Alipay withdrawals?
I am going to tell all my vendors in China about this!

We will consider Alipay withdrawal option soon. Currently there's an API for mass payments, but it requires a service contract with Alipay.

When the CNY deposit volume is higher, we will have better chances of getting the service contract signed.
544  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoinica - Advanced Bitcoin Trading Platform on: February 22, 2012, 02:47:40 PM
Question about bitcoinica starfish:

Bitcoinica is charging interest on deposits. Interests is meant to attract funds to give the exchange a reserve (so if btc skyrockets or collapses suddenly zhoutong does not go belly up).
However, I'm a little sceptical that investors will find this attractive with a variable rate. It is too much hassle to keep track of.

Consider this alternative:

bitcoinica could issue fixed term 6-month bonds with a locked in 30% annual interest rate. The bonds would have the proviso that Zhou can choose to pay the bond off either in dollars or in btc with the locked in exchange rate at the time of initial issue. Note here that the actual interest rate is less than 30% per annum because Zhou can take advantage of any exchange rate movement. If the exchange rate moves by more than 30% in either direction, then Zhou will make money and the bondholder will lose. Essentially then bitcoinica can insure itself against large exchange fluctuations in either direction by issuing these bonds. The fixed term would also protect Zhou against sudden collapses in confidence to some degree.

It seems like issuing these bonds could protect Zhou from the starfish and also provide an attractive expected return for investors. Have you considered this Zhou?

It's like a dual-currency account. This is a good idea.

However, we have already eliminated the starfish problem. Currently all interest rates are dynamic, and people are shifting their deposits and positions fast enough to provide liquidity when we need.
545  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoinica now supports Alipay deposit! on: February 22, 2012, 02:29:32 PM
We're glad to announce that Bitcoinica now supports Alipay, the most popular payment website in China with hundreds of millions of active users.

From now on, anyone with an Alipay account, a UnionPay credit/debit card or an online banking account with major national and regional banks will be able to deposit into Bitcoinica instantly, with zero commissions (currency conversion fees apply).

We believe that entering Chinese market by integrating with the most popular e-commerce payment tool will be a significant boost for the Bitcoin community in the long run.

Now we're going to post this announcement in Chinese:

我们很高兴地告诉大家 Bitcoinica 现在正式支持支付宝,中国最流行的第三方支付工具。

从今天起,任何拥有一个支付宝账号,中国银联信用卡和借记卡或主要国有银行和地区银行的网上银行业务均可使用支付宝网关来进行 Bitcoinica 的在线充值。整个过程是全自动的,瞬间即可完成。同时,我们不收取任何的手续费(但是会有货币转换费,体现在汇率上)。

我们相信通过集成中国最大的电子商务支付工具来进入中国市场对比特币社区的发展是有长久的好处的!

Screenshot:

546  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica's Order Types on: February 22, 2012, 07:38:11 AM
Can someone tell me how it would be possible to queue a limit order AFTER a stop for my open position?

Open Position ------ Long @ 5.00

Order Queue ------- 1) STOP-sell @ 4.90 ( liquidate long position )
Order Queue ------- 2) Limit-sell @ 4.89 ( go short after liquidating long position)

The above in reality just executes the limit-sell order immediately and liquidates my position leaving the STOP-sell order still queued. So you can't queue a limit order at a price lower than the market price if you have an open position?  Does that mean I would need to queue a second STOP-sell order at 4.89 to create a new short position after the first stop liquidates my original long position?

Currently we don't support stop-limit order and if-then order. If you want to liquidate a 50 BTC long position and create a 50 BTC short position, you can just place a 100 BTC stop sell order.
547  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica's Order Types on: February 21, 2012, 11:38:40 PM
There is no incorrect way to use the orders, if you set a limit buy above the market price, then bitcoinica says to itsself 'oh shit guys we're already below that price... execute now'. if you set a stop buy (weather or not you have a position open) below the market price then bitcoinica says to itsself 'oh shit we're already above that price... execute now'.

I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding of how the orders work,
Basically:

Limit: makes you money by executing your order when the price reaches a point in the profit direction.

Stop: cuts your losses by executing your order when the price reaches a point in the loss direction.

trailing stop: cuts your losses by a set amount(of loss), rather then at a set price.

And any of these orders can be used to open, close, increase or partially close a position.


I get the definitions of them and what they are used for but what I am confused with now is why I could use a stop order to create a new position.  Why is that possible?

For example, you want to buy Bitcoins *only* when it rises above $4.5. Then you can set a stop buy order at 4.5.

In Bitcoinica, orders and positions are not linked at all. If there's any position, the system will always add/subtract from it. If there's no position, the system will create one. Whenever a position becomes zero, the P/L will be realized and it will be removed.
548  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoinica charging interests (feb 13) on: February 21, 2012, 07:09:49 PM
Well I'll find out in approx 9-11 days... I calculated that's when I'll get .01 worth of interest.  Smiley


(er, assuming I'm using the correct formula for compound interest) Smiley



I totally had the wrong formula.  I'll find out in 4 months with my current deposit. Smiley

(can someone post a stupid formula that I can plug into Excel??)

There's no compound for unpaid interest. The current interest rate for Bitcoin deposit is 0.55. So if you have ฿1, you will be paid ฿0.000055 every day. Then it's going to take about 200 days to make the first 0.01.

If you have ฿100, you'll receive an interest payment approximately every 2 days based on current rate.
549  Economy / Speculation / Re: What if Bitcoinica requires identification for all customers? on: February 21, 2012, 02:11:17 AM
But I can assure you that you will have at least 30 days before we suspend trading, and you can withdraw any time until 90 days after the "deadline".
Earlier you said that a lack of ID would not in any way prevent withdrawls.
signature changed because you at the end you will force users to send ID's

We won't freeze accounts. Everyone will be able to withdraw regardless of verification status. You're safe to continue trading until we announce further details.
Did you change your mind? If someone without ID has been trading on Bitcoinica for a while, then leaves for a few months and misses all this, might they come back to find they have no recourse for getting their coins?

Or am I reading this "90 day grace period" wrong?

We will try to contact them before the deadline.
550  Economy / Speculation / Re: Open Interest now available on Bitcoinica Charts! on: February 20, 2012, 12:08:25 PM
Can we get the data returned on the API?

Unfortunately, we don't offer API data for open interest currently.

But we will consider doing this. Thanks for the idea!
551  Economy / Speculation / Open Interest now available on Bitcoinica Charts! on: February 20, 2012, 10:59:56 AM
Bitcoinica now publishes all the open interest data since January 20, 2012.

Open interest is often used in futures market as a technical indicator. Since Bitcoinica does not always have equal long positions and short positions, we only take the less one as the value of "open interest", so that the data will reflect exactly how many Bitcoins are being involved in both long and short positions.

For example, the open interest at this moment is 54600. This means that there are at least 54600 BTCs of long positions and at least 54600 BTCs of short positions on Bitcoinica.

Available at: http://charts.bitcoinica.com/open_interest

Sample (2012-02-19 Open Interest):


552  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica Inc on: February 20, 2012, 04:27:42 AM
Where is bitcoinica's servers at?

It runs on Heroku I think.  At least it used to.

Now it's in Rackspace Cloud ORD1 data center.
553  Economy / Speculation / Re: bitcoinica verification and the price on: February 20, 2012, 12:21:35 AM

How many underage users do you think there are? How much money do you think they have?

Right, not many and not much.

Let's find out.  Please vote.


Trading is not allowed for underage users? Sad

In many places, people under 18 cannot sign contracts.  They can open bank or investment accounts with their guardian's permission.  I don't know Bitcoinica's policy on this but if a Bitcoinica user needs verification of a mailing address using a bank statement or utility bill and the minor's guardians object to them having a bank account, then it would be difficult for a minor to have a Bitconica account. MtGox won't even allow bank statements for verification purposes.

Also, MtGox Terms of Service state:
Quote
By opening an account to use the Platform ("Account") Members represent and warrant:
         1.  they have accepted these Terms; and
         2.  they are at least 18 years of age and have the full capacity to accept these Terms and enter into a transaction resulting
         on the Platform

That's why I won't use Mt. Gox personally.
554  Economy / Speculation / Re: What if Bitcoinica requires identification for all customers? on: February 20, 2012, 12:19:00 AM
We will give you a plenty of time before the deadline. We announce this change early because we want to know the community's feelings towards this change.

Unfortunately, we find being regulated as a financial services provider with specific licenses to issue loans, exchange currencies, pay interests on deposits and issue means of payments much more important than making short-term profits.

It's totally understandable that some people are not willing to submit IDs before more details are posted. But I can assure you that you will have at least 30 days before we suspend trading, and you can withdraw any time until 90 days after the "deadline".

All the legal solutions are in-house. We have bank-like functions so Bitcoinica USD account can be segregated. So your funds are always protected.
555  Economy / Speculation / Re: What if Bitcoinica requires identification for all customers? on: February 19, 2012, 04:16:31 PM
signature changed because you at the end you will force users to send ID's

We won't freeze accounts. Everyone will be able to withdraw regardless of verification status. You're safe to continue trading until we announce further details.
556  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica Inc on: February 19, 2012, 10:08:33 AM
when will we know the solution?

Soon. We have hired a few legal and financial professionals to work on corporate structure. We already got the licenses so we have started collecting identifications.

Is there any deadline for customer verification at this point (from the customer's POV)?  What features are expanded and/or enabled upon verification?  I.e. what can't I do now that I will be able to do after verification?

Thanks!

Currently there's no deadline. Our company is in the transitioning period and we have to "try our best" to collect IDs. You will enjoy unlimited instant withdrawals (including Mt. Gox and Bitcoin) if you verify now. Otherwise, the same approval process will apply.

We will roll out a series of incentives for verified customers. And after we announce the deadline, unverified customers will have to withdraw all their funds and close their accounts before that date.
557  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica Inc on: February 19, 2012, 09:32:13 AM
when will we know the solution?

Soon. We have hired a few legal and financial professionals to work on corporate structure. We already got the licenses so we have started collecting identifications.
558  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoinica's Interest System on: February 19, 2012, 03:32:08 AM
So I can just plop 100 BTC over to my Bitcoinica account... and start seeing .0417% interest on that 100 bitcoin deposit per day?

Everyday?



You get the buying interest rate, so it can be lower. The rate is dynamic, but 3% to 6% APY should be the norm.

Yes, you don't have to do anything, and you can withdraw any time. Interest is calculated hourly and paid daily.
559  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica has paid out the first day's interest! on: February 18, 2012, 04:47:18 PM
lets take a look at current situation, the market is stupid seams ppl dont want to trade, orders are ridiculously low(no depth), i have low incentive to enter the market, you add on top of that the position fees, leverage restrictions, well guess what i better stay out of the market with my moneys and gain a nice interest, from your end can look different but from my end is like that 20% APY is awesome Smiley

Trading carries risk, so people trade only when they are confident about their decisions. A few cents of swap don't affect their decision much.

Deposit is risk-free, so there's a lot of difference between no returns and some returns.

By the way, you are not getting 20% APY. You always get the buying interest rate.
560  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoinica has paid out the first day's interest! on: February 18, 2012, 04:28:08 PM
just to make my point clear
lets say only 20% of USD deposits (i mean ppl who put money in bitcoinica i dont talk about reserves) are used then you bitcoinica have to much money, the interest rate should be next to zero you want this ppl to use the moneys, the cost for maintaining a position should be next to 0 and if you can should be positive

now lets say 80% USD deposits are used then you should give a incentive so ppl make more deposits by increasing interest rates and also increase the cost for maintaining open a position


Well, it's different. The position swap is the difference between the buying rate of one currency and the selling rate of the other.

When we have enough USD, the buying-selling spread is larger, because more depositors share the fixed amount of interests (from position holders). Same thing applies to BTC.

Now, when you start a short position, you are selling BTC and buying USD. So you are paying the BTC selling interest and collecting the USD buying interest. In terms of BTC, what you pay will be used to pay the people who provide the BTC for you to sell. In terms of USD, you are collecting payments from people who use the USD you bought to trade.

However, the interest you collect can be less than what you pay, hence the negative swap.

We have the absolute incentive the stimulate trading activity so that we can earn more spreads (which earns us over 100x more than interest), but we have carefully considered the interest system to be the best solution to the reserve problems that we had in the past. In Economics terms, the demand for funds (position holding) is relatively price-inelastic and the supply of funds (deposits) is relatively price-elastic. Our aim is to ensure sufficient reserves while not affecting trading too much, and the base interest that we set exactly achieves this aim.
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