I'll try to better explain my position then.  First, lets get something straight: I'm talking about selling shares through BitFunder, not outside it. BitFunder supports sending shares between accounts. This issue is very clear to me. If you are an investor in AMC you want the money to go to AMC!You can't have an asset issuer compete in a secondary market. You need new shares to be sold in a primary market. Otherwise, every long-term shareholder gets screwed!For example, lets say Ken needs to sell 1,000,000 shares now for the (imminent) purchase of materials to build Avalon boards/ new order of chips/ whatever: - He puts them to sell on BitFunder at 0.0008.
- Next minute, he is immediately undercut at 10,000@0.00079999 by someone, and the other minute at 5,000@0.00079998 by another guy, etc.
- This keeps going and after a week he has sold nothing, while the undercutters were steadily selling their shares.
- Who do you think gets screwed by not getting the necessary BTC in time for buying the actual hardware? Hint: not the flippers!
Competing in a secondary market means that Ken will be forced to sell at 0.0005 if he gets constantly undercut and needs the BTC to move AMC forward, as that's the only price he's guaranteed no undercutting. Do you want that to happen again???The more shares you own of AMC (long-term investment) the more you'll be interested that AMC sells its shares when it needs to, and the more you'll want to buy from Ken only! Every income BTC to AMC is directly increasing the value of ALL shares, while sales from flippers mean nothing to increase AMC value. |
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The best way to buy shares of AMC is through bitfunder.com The price is set based upon supply and demand as determined by the bids and asking prices of people who use Bitfunder. Hello,
Is it possible to buy shares directly to AMC ?
(...)
Thank you
Actually, that's a very good question. There should be a way to buy shares directly from Ken.Imagine he posts a batch at 0.0008 and gets immediately undercut at prices like 0.000799, etc, from flippers. Even if cheaper, I don't want to buy from them, I want to buy from Ken. AMC doesn't see a satoshi from shares bought from flippers, but any shares bought from Ken is a direct AMC investment. In the end, any shareholder is getting more bang for their BTC by buying shares directly from Ken, as that translates to AMC growth, while buying from flippers does not. |
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(...) Should AMC get an investor which wants a large block of shares we could use the transfer function to move those shares after receiving the funds, these funds could be something other than bitcoins. The price for these shares would depend on a number of factors, the main one which would be, would this transaction increase shareholder value. This type of transaction is an advantage for AMC and its investors as there is no fee charged by bitfunder at this time for these transfers. (...)
+1! Large investors are more than welcome!  |
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It was my assumption that there weren't any 'off the books' trades. If all trades don't go through the market then the spot price is pointless. Why would someone purchase shares for .00083 on bitfunder if they can make a deal on the side with Ken. If this is truly going on, that's bullshit.
That being said, I'm not convinced that's what is going on. If it was, then why did the shares end back up in Ken's account.
I personally hold ~46k shares so I have more than a small interest in making sure that this company is being run in a straightforward and honest manor. I don't think it's too much to ask for an explanation from Ken.
As a side note, anyone can sell anyone any amount of shares, of any asset, at any price, on BitFunder: https://bitfunder.com/transfer |
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Ken, could you confirm that the 15.000.000 unsold early-adopters shares are also getting dividends paid ?
I mean, it's quite clear that the 5M early-adopter + 20M growth & expansion should get dividends, but what about the 15M shares left ?
Dividends from unsold shares also go into the growth/expansion fund. Read the contract, its stated there. |
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So if I go to Bitfunder now, buy shares at say .00065, these are still founder shares correct?
Yep! |
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I'm curious to see how the start of mining may shift the shareprice...Vbs from your number crunching whats your opinion?
I expect it to keep rising as more hardware is put to work. So just to be clear .... if we buy one of the 20,000,000 shares on Bitfunder ... they are the founding shares entitled to the 100% returns?
Is that correct?
As long as there are 40M issued shares, each share is entitled to 1/40M of the returns. |
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There are 100,000,000 shares. Of those shares only 40,000,000 will be paid until the total dividends = .0005.
Of the 40,000,000 shares currently being paid, 20,000,000 go towards new equipment purchases, and 20,000,000 go towards the early adopter IPO shares (of which only 5,000,000 have sold yet, the other 15,000,000 will be paying dividends to AMC)
Recap:
60,000,0000 not receiving dividends until after .0005 has been paid out.
20,000,0000 going to equipment fund
15,000,0000 going to AMC (a.k.a. Ken, until the shares are sold @ .0008 or higher - this is the bit people including myself generally have a problem with. Unsold shares "shouldn't" receive dividends in my opinion.)
5,000,0000 paid out to investors
There are 100,000,000 shares. Of those shares only 40,000,000 will be paid until the total dividends = .0005 /share or may-2014 if at that time the first condition is met. Of the 40,000,000 shares currently being paid, 20,000,000 go towards new equipment purchases (growth/expansion fund), and 20,000,000 go towards the early adopter IPO shares (of which only 5,000,000 have sold yet, the other 15,000,000 will be paying dividends to the growth/expansion fund also). Any unsold shares from the 40,000,000 are effectively part of the growth/expansion fund. You can check the spreadsheet I made a while back, all this information is there. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap8MGY67MGwNdE5rRGUtd1hzTE1CVUR3WnZsME02QXc |
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Very close now! How long do things normally take to ship from Hong Kong to the US? Less than a day it seems, as the tracking shows it already released from Customs in Cincinnati, OH (step 7). |
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Very close now! |
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Vbs;
I suggest you read the unclassified report by the FBI about bitcoin that was posted by wired. Read it carefully. They cite monitoring the board, they cite Roman posting about his 25,000 bitcoins being hacked and stolen. There is little doubt they are monitoring the board. How long do you think they are going to allow a "honest to goodness real USA company" to run an illegal IPO in a space that they seem to take interest in? If Ken Slaughter is a real person with a real company, they are going to shut him down and your money will be gone. "Ken Slaughter" knows he is breaking the law and he knows about the FBI document (everyone does), you really think this he is really an honest american business man that would risk going to jail to do this?
If it is a scam, you lose your money. If it is not a scam, and he gets arrested, you lose your money. I do not see the upside. If you can offer the other side to this argument, I would love to hear it.
How is this a specific issue to AMC? Is AMC the only venture doing this? What about all the rest that don't even have any legal terms? If they did that, besides the fact that they would make bitcoin value probably double, there are many many more assets legally easier to go after first. |
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The Avalons you priced at $6000 / GH/s?
Yes, their arrival will really change my opinion of your company.
Great. You, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinion. Now, calling everyone "sheep" and coming here like your opinion is the "truth" is a completely different story. |
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This gets even better an better. Entropy-uc, please also post the similar legally binding information relative to ASICMINER, so we can compare it to AMC. Many thanks!  |
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Just got back from renting 2600 square feet for our combined mining and manufacturing facility. I already have "Team AMC" at BTCGuild. I will check out which pools to use.
Great! Also, check out https://bitminter.com for the reasons I stated earlier (1% fee, BTC+NMC, tx fees splitting between miners). |
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List of assets taken from BTC-TC account:
576 B.YABMC
1,431 BTC-BOND
50 ESECURITYSABTC
200 PAJKA.BOND
137 ESECURITY-SA
1,100 ESECURITY-SA2
3,192 LTC-ATF.B1
This is a partial list of distribution paying assets that I would use to restart the relevant listings. Absent are holdings such as ART and BITVPS which currently don't pay distributions. I am not going to provide the full list, for the same reason Deprived refuses to list his individual holdings. However, I would also donate 100 BTC to BMF should it be approved.
Let this forever lay to rest the ridiculous notion that there are no assets. There are substantial assets.
You hold LTC-ATF.B1 and ART? There is hope in this world after all! Anyway, best of luck getting it approved quickly!  |
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Difficulty will change in around 12 hours to 15M
I'll still keep my TAT.VM shares, dividend is 3x compare to AM
TAT, if I send you one bread, can you also make three out of it? |
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