Your constant suppression of legitimate questions is tiresome. Ken has given a hard date for the end of share tendering when some of us who prefer BTC-TC over Butfunder would like to know if that date would change due to delays in the BTC-TC approval process. We are also curious about dividend payouts for those of us that will be in AMC until there is an ActiveMining offering on BTC-TC, which probably won't happen between now and dividend payouts tomorrow.
These are legitimate questions. Do not tell us to "chill" and better yet, don't even bother replying if you don't know the answer to our question(s) - which is often.
You should really take a chill pill!  |
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Good point. BTW, AMC case is interesting because 60% of shares will be held by management.
2 things must happen -
1) This 60% must be locked for some unknown time (see contract) so they can not dump the shares
2) 60% of share must be excluded from dividend calculations, until 40% of shares (or what ever is sold from that) has received a total of 0.0025 per share.
Probably the easiest way to fix this is to move 60% (belongs to management) of shares to separate account, lock this account down and handle it as treasury stock (no divs) until total of 0.0025 per share is paid for the rest.
Otherwise it will be a huge mess... again.
If you check https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining Profile -> Details, you'll see that instead of issuing all shares, Ken is just issuing them as they are tendered/put to sale. This means that only a max of 10M will be issued and the rest 15M will not be, so they are effectively "locked" from receiving anything. The only thing that remains to do is the shares that are still in the issuer's account to not receive any dividends. |
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Not sure if mine went through either!
You guys crashed his exchange server! I am waiting to tender on BTCT, to give Ken some time, and for the ActiveMining security to be established... unless anyone thinks this is a terrible idea  Chill!  Ken has shown already that he doesn't want to leave anyone behind and is working on getting the ActiveMining proposal on BTC-TC. |
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I'm a little confused about this tender process. What is the purpose behind this? In which way do I benefit from transfering my shares from AMC to ActiveMining? What happens to my AMC shares after the tender offer expires after July 31? What informations should go into the e-Mail I have to send?
And a more general question: Is there a difference in buying shares from BitFunder oder BTCT? Do those places have any real pros and cons regarding dividend payout or something like that?
Any answer is highly appreciated!
Read page 1 of this thread, it's all there. The huge benefit is that you will receive dividends from hardware sales and only 10,000,000 shares will be outstanding until .0025 is paid per share, which is also a very good bonus. AMC will be liquidated after the tender offer expires. Buying on either of the exchanges is the same, just choose the one more convenient to you. |
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https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMiningAs I said, it happening already. As soon as AM shares are in peoples hands - they will sell and undercut the 2mil+ wall of shares at .0025 Now, the price will simply start drifting down as people cut in front of each other to sell ... boom, price will be the same as AMC. Price will never increase so long as the wall is there. So people hoping to buy AMC shares now, and convert to AM for a profit - will fail. The price on both AMC and AM will be the same. So no point in trying to buy AMC cheap, and profit on AM - price points will be the same I agree your points are valid, but you may be underestimating the impact of a perceived value increase in AM regarding the increased ownership in VMC and all dividends up to 0.0025. So, we may just see a fair slice come out of the wall as new investors join up with Active Miner. Personally, I am holding long. Yes, unfortunately this works just like a panic situation where people crush each other just to get out of somewhere, while if they did it more or less orderly everyone would escape. On this case, the more shares from the wall are sold, the more valuable is the company as a whole and more each share is worth, so the undercutters deprive everyone of that bonus until all their shares are sold, even if they are pricing them just one satoshi less. This is why on a properly implemented exchange there are both a primary and secondary markets. Having only a secondary market is a mess. A primary market means there is always a way to buy shares from the issuer itself. So many complains about existing exchanges but this one major flaw gets overlooked a lot. The only exchange that has this properly implemented is Havelock. |
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one question - comes Havelock Investments not in consideration?
Because Havelock wouldn't allow this crap most likely... by all respect, TAT, cool down anyone has a right to do his best. I think Ken tries to do so. time judges then. i personally wish him a success, because more successful parties is more success for bitcoin in the whole, for us all. concerning "AM" - yes, it is not the best choice.... Both in the practical and ethical lights. IMHO It is not "AM", it is "ActiveMining": https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining. Not much confusion there for me at least! |
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As Ken said, make an account on Bitfunder.com or btct.co and buy AMC or AMC-PT. Shares are pretty cheap at the moment! And Id just like to say, as a shareholder, I am very excited by where things are going! You are doing a great job Ken AMC-PT shares will allowed to be swapped as well 1:1, correct? Im 99% sure this is the case, just want to be sure Tendered on BTC-TC and then transfered at no charge to bitfunder for ActiveMining shares. I'm sure there's a lot of ppl also waiting to tender them on BTC-TC too, after/if ActiveMining is approved there! |
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Thanks, that makes sense.
Quick question, are you officially affiliated with AMC in some fashion?
No, but I'm following this basically from day #1 and usually talk to Ken on IRC in #bitfunder (freenode), he goes by the nick "AMC__". Either use an IRC client (I like HexChat), or go to https://bitfunder.com/help and press the "IRC Chat" tab. |
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....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.
WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else. Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock If a Co buys back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock. Yes, it is absurd that BF doesn't has this better implemented, like BTC-TC! |
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Looking at ButFunder, the asset page for AMC says 40 million issued, dumping the data from the Asset List on ButFunder into Excel and only adding up the AMC total shares, it is indeed 40 million shares. However in Ken's FAQ on Butfunder, he states 20 million shares are held by AMC growth fund, so if this calculates properly, it is still at 20,511,000 shares issued across both exchanges?
There are ~6M in the hands of AMC shareholders, ~14M in the hands of AMC yet to be sold, and ~20M assigned to the growth fund, for the total of ~40M. The sum of both AMC ask walls in BF and BTC-TC is 10M shares, which is the cap of maximum to be sold, still allowing for a 1:1 tender for AM shares. |
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Only 25 million ActiveMining shares will be released, but over 40 million AMC shares are currently released. How can a 1 for 1 swap be achieved with these numbers?
So far, the last number I looked at said that there were only 6 million shares that had been sold. In this case, a 1:1 swap is very much doable. This. |
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This contract is a vast improvement on the original concept and it presents any potential shareholder with a clear company profile and set of objectives. I'm happy for you to proceed as planned.
btw would it be an idea to have another poll eg - 'Are you happy for the restructuring of AMC to proceed as planned?'. Anything over 51% YES I think would be considered unanimous.
When AMC shareholders start to tender their shares for AM shares, you have your answer to that! |
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The 10M shares are all of the investor shares in the new company - including those that do the swap from AMC, so I would say those that swap are included in those that get 100% of the divs
I can't argue with that logic. Hope you're right - sounds like this could end up a fantastic deal for everyone after all. Yes, the AMC shares swapped for AM shares get 100% of profits until .0025 is paid per share. Since there are a lot of ppl selling them cheap right now, you can grab some easily! |
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Two questions:
1. How many shares are already issued for AMC? ie. how many AMC shares already owned by investors?
2. With the new AM structure, where 1:1 swap of shares will take place - how many shares will be left over to release to raise more capital?
My concern here, is what if more $$ is needed to get the new hardware online, but there are no more shares available to issue to raise capital? What is the plan there?
If more $$ needs to be raised, there is an open door left for creating more shares in the case all other options are exausted, so that AM never gets in a deadlock situation unable to move forward. |
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Active Mining Corporation (Belize) owns everything and receives all the profits, 100% of which are then paid to the 10 million shares held by Investors until a total of .0025 BTC in dividends are paid to Investors.
I read that as there will be no share swap to another entity anymore, instead everybody just keeps their AMC shares but gets more bang for the buck now. Right?!? There will have to be a share swap, as the new contract is now very different than the one of AMC. Like lolstate said Active Mining Corporation now owns every asset of the Active Mining Cooperative (AMC). |
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auto2nr1, think about it this way: Active Mining Corp (owns "old" AMC+VMC+cat+dog+bird+world) ----------^--------- | | Investors Management hold holds 10M AM 15M AM shares shares This is how profits are split. Don't confuse it with what Active Mining Corp consists of internally, since the internal "departments" have nothing to do with the profit split. |
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Introduction
ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity representing all the profits of the Active Mining Corporation and is totally owned by it. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).
Currently, it is expected for interested investors to hold 10,000,000 AM shares (40% of the profits), while Active Mining Corporation owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 AM shares (60% of the profits), for a total of 25,000,000 AM virtual shares that represent 100% of the global profits of the Active Mining Corporation.
Version 3 7/5/13
Just to make sure it is 100% clear. Since the VMC name is still being tossed into the offering is this how the structure looks? AMC |-------^--------| AM VMC **ACTIVE MINING REPRESENTS A VIRTUAL ID SO THE 40% OF THE SHARES HAVE A NAME & VMC REPRESENTS THE OWNER(S) MANAGEMENT 40% 60% 10M 15M I just want to make sure for myself and for the rest of the community. Thanks. No man, forget about VMC. Everyone will own AM shares that represent the profits of everything as a whole. VMC is just something that Active Mining Corporation owns 100%, and you as a shareholder will own a part of the profits of Active Mining Corporation with everything included. |
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virtual identity. after all those offshore companies in Delaware, Belize, etc. we have the ned with virtual identity... no laws, no jurisdiction, only good word. But I am in from the beginning, so it is not time to run out  The "virtual identity" is just for having a name to call the shares that represent the profits of "Active Mining Corporation". |
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started to be too complicated, usually i prefer easy business, 1 company, 1 profit
Yes, it started to be too complicated but now it's much much simpler, as there's only one company (Active Mining Corporation that owns everything). |
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Well... I can't figure out how it can get any better than this guys! The fact Ken isn't receiving any dividends on his shares until the public shares get a whooping 0.0025/share in dividends should really stop all the FUD! My hat is off to you sir!  |
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